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It's 2012 -- Tune vs DT 240 hubs (& Enve v AX-Lightness wheelset)

14K views 45 replies 14 participants last post by  Yogii 
#1 ·
So...I'm making the jump from tubeless to a tubular wheel set after a enough time on tubulars on the road & CX. I'm curious for opinions on my hub selection.

I've currently got an Enve XC 29 wheelset set up with Racing Ralphs, tubeless. These use a Cannondale SL front hub (Lefty) and a DT240 rear.

I'm debating between a set of Enve XC 29 tubular rims or AX Lightness. I weigh <70kg w/o gear, so I'm well within the AX Lightness guidelines. The AX rims are about 50g lighter for the set. I want to use these on a lightweight Cannondale Flash 29er (hardtail) build.

I'm considering lacing either up to a set of Tunes or DT Swiss hubs.

Primary benefit of Tune is weight: Lighter than DT (344g for a Cannondale SL + DT 240 vs 304g for a Tune Cannonball + Kong vs 279g for a Tune Cannonball SL + Prince)

Drawbacks:
* Fewer points of engagement for Tune (24 v 36 for a 240 w/ the star ratchet upgrade)
* Both Tune and DT240 can be switched between QR135 and 12x142, though it is easier for the DT240. I think about sometimes using the tubular wheelset on my Scalpel (12x142), but this is probably unlikely.
* Have Tune reliability issues been solved? I've read about Tune hub failures in the past, but nothing recent. Can anyone give an update for 2012?

Also, as far as rims go, I know the Env rims are pretty tough. Does anyone know about these AX Lightness rims? If a rock hit is enough to harm the AX rim, will it also harm the Enve? I'm also based in the US, so presumably Enve is a bit easier to work with than AX/Tune in the event of an issue.

When talking about a full wheelset, the weights are 1225 for Enve w/ DT, 1145 for Enve w/ Tune Kong vs 1134 for AX w/ Tune King and ~1090 for AX w/ Tune Prince.

I tend to choose smoother lines and would use the tubeless wheelset with beefier tires for the rockiest trails. I do have relatively high power-weight and enjoy climbing, so I wonder about the points of engagement.

Thanks! Comments and opinions are welcome.
 
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#43 ·
thanks for answering. i made a decision already: to go with the enve rims and tune hubs.

i felt the enve rims would be a better bet for me, particularly with my location in the US with respect to proximity to enve. also, i could build them up in a 28h configuration and save most of the weight difference between the enve and ax lightness rims.

i decided to go with tune hubs because i was not able to find anything bad about the new generations of hubs. i agree that DT hubs are bomber. i opted to save ~100g on the wheelset by doing so. it may seem insignificant, but i thought it was a good opportunity to lose weight on a light build i am doing; if the tune hubs were rated poorly, i would not have gone that route.

i'll be able to follow up after a season of riding on them, but i'm afraid i won't know much before then.
 
#2 ·
DT Swiss have have become the Swiss army knives of hubs, they're easy to service, easy to upgrade to new standards and features (like all the axles and freehubs). And they're reliable as a Swiss bank. I would definitely look at the DT 240S (or 190S hubs if you want to crazy sideways) for reliability and serviceability.

Personally I'd also look at ENVE rims as they are bombproof.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the comments. I have a set of 240 hubs on Enve rimes (tubeless) and know how they can be pretty trouble-fee.

Anyone have any 1st-hand experience with current generation Tune hubs (and/or AX rims)? Searches I've done have only turned up issues with older Tune hubs.

Part of my motivation with this wheelset is to go light, but I don't want to make major sacrifices in durability. The difference in weight between Enve tubulars with DTs and AX rims with the lighter tunes is about 150g. That may not sound like much but 50g here, 150g there, etc, adds up to 1-1.5#.

My real question is can the AX rims and Tune hubs hold up or are there issues? I know the Enves/DTs will hold up, but if I can save the weight and still have reliability then that is good for me.

(I know the significance of 150g will come up with the typical 'lose some weight' comments, but (a) the two re not mutually exclusive and (b) I'm already 8-9% body fat...and (c) this is just lightweight project.)

THANKS!
 
#5 ·
I have a season and a half on the new Tune Prince/Princess hubs with the 17mm axle.These have been great - no issues, they roll so nice and just seem so fast. I haven't heard of any issues with the new style Tune hubs.
If you are looking to go light ,what about the Extralite hubs as they are lighter then the Tune's. If you go with either of these I would purchase them from Fairwheel bikes. I got both my Tune & Extralite hubs from them & their CS is top notch, I had an issue with a non-Tune product & they took care of me right away.
 
#6 ·
thanks for sharing your experience. mind sharing your weight and the type of riding you do?

what rims?

good question about the extralites. i seemed to encounter more stories of durability issues for real mountain biking with the extralites, so i was thinking the weight savings for them would NOT be worth that trade-off. i was hoping the tunes would be nearly as light (approx 20g more) while being more durable.

am i mistaken?
 
#7 ·
I've got a season on the Tune Kong rear hub with 17mm axle. It's been a good hub. I don't find the 24 poe a problem and I ride a lot of technical, trials-like trails with it. I choose it for my race wheelset over the DT240s because of the weight savings and it was actually the same price as DT240s. I liked the wheelset so much that I pretty much use it all the time.
 
#8 ·
Thanks! I have ridden the DT240 with 18 POE (before doing the upgrade), and it was pretty much fine, so 24 POE should be good.

I've heard the Prince hub is now the same mechanism as the King (Kong?), so that is a better sign for durability than how it used to be.

I've heard with the Tune it is possible, though not easy, to switch from QR135 to 12x142. any comments on that?
 
#19 ·
also...one other minor question. i've read the extralites tend to be noisy. any comparisons of tune v. extralite noise while freewheeling, esp relative to a king or dt hub?

i used to ride kings but after a brief stint on easton hubs i came to appreciate a quiet ride while out in the woods. the dt 240 (w/ ratchet upgrade) is pretty quiet for me.
 
#21 ·
awesome--thanks for posting. yeah, lately i prefer a more quiet hub to one that is very loud.

those 2 sound pretty comparable--just the tune has a higher pitch. would be cool if there was a 'reference hub' on there, something that i could compare to that i know about (with their same setup).
 
#22 ·
So...I'm making the jump from tubeless to a tubular wheel set after a enough time on tubulars on the road & CX. I'm curious for opinions on my hub selection.

I've currently got an Enve XC 29 wheelset set up with Racing Ralphs, tubeless. These use a Cannondale SL front hub (Lefty) and a DT240 rear.

I'm debating between a set of Enve XC 29 tubular rims or AX Lightness. I weigh <70kg w/o gear, so I'm well within the AX Lightness guidelines. The AX rims are about 50g lighter for the set. I want to use these on a lightweight Cannondale Flash 29er (hardtail) build.

I'm considering lacing either up to a set of Tunes or DT Swiss hubs.

Primary benefit of Tune is weight: Lighter than DT (344g for a Cannondale SL + DT 240 vs 304g for a Tune Cannonball + Kong vs 279g for a Tune Cannonball SL + Prince)

Drawbacks:
* Fewer points of engagement for Tune (24 v 36 for a 240 w/ the star ratchet upgrade)
* Both Tune and DT240 can be switched between QR135 and 12x142, though it is easier for the DT240. I think about sometimes using the tubular wheelset on my Scalpel (12x142), but this is probably unlikely.
* Have Tune reliability issues been solved? I've read about Tune hub failures in the past, but nothing recent. Can anyone give an update for 2012?

Also, as far as rims go, I know the Env rims are pretty tough. Does anyone know about these AX Lightness rims? If a rock hit is enough to harm the AX rim, will it also harm the Enve? I'm also based in the US, so presumably Enve is a bit easier to work with than AX/Tune in the event of an issue.

When talking about a full wheelset, the weights are 1225 for Enve w/ DT, 1145 for Enve w/ Tune Kong vs 1134 for AX w/ Tune King and ~1090 for AX w/ Tune Prince.

I tend to choose smoother lines and would use the tubeless wheelset with beefier tires for the rockiest trails. I do have relatively high power-weight and enjoy climbing, so I wonder about the points of engagement.

Thanks! Comments and opinions are welcome.
One of the tune hubs seems to ustilize the exact same system as dt BUT it actually looks like some precision machining has been performed. Whereas the dts looks like they cast the internals or maybe fabricated them with a hacksaw or something.




fairwheelbikes.com • View topic - Road hub review, 28 hubs
 
#32 ·
hi, everyone. i wanted to thank you for the comments in this thread.

i made a decision on my wheelset.

i decided to go with tune cannonball SL and prince hubs. i am confident both extralite and tune would be fine, so it came down to availability and price for me.

i also decided to go with enve rims instead of AX-Lightness. i have heard good things about the AX rims (though mixed comments about warranty support), but in the end i was saving 25g per rim. i KNOW that enve will give good support if there ever is an issue.

further, the enve rims are available in a 28h configuration, which given their stiffness and my weight seems to be a fine option. there is a small weight savings there (~16g/wheel), so that offsets the slightly heavier rim.

i'm hopeful i made the right call, but truthfully i think any permutation of extralite / tune hub and ax / enve rim would likely be just fine.

i plan to use this for a light hardtail build, but i also may run it in a FS on occasion (i'm buying the 12x142 conversion kit, too).
 
#34 ·
dumb question, but it has been a long time since i've used QR 135 on a MTB.

i have a frame with 135 spacing (cannondale flash). i know there are hubs out there like the dt 240 that can be converted from qr135 to 9mm thru bolt by just changing end caps.

can the tune and extralite hubs be converted? what would i have to do?

(i know the tune needs a separate 12x142 axle kit--for 12mm, obviously--but i am not sure if moving to thru bolt is possible.)

thanks!
 
#35 ·
also--i figure the build will come in at ~1,110g for the wheel set (no rear QR).

ny thoughts on whether a thru-bolt option would be meaningfully stiffer? the enve rims should be stiff, as should the general build. i wonder if the axle (in this hardtail) will be a source of flex.

seems that most FS bikes these days come with thru-bolts of some sort (my last few FS bikes have had 12mm axles, and my current one is 12x142 / x-12), so i've gotten used to that.
 
#37 ·
thanks. i know the tune hubs come with QR135 as standard and one can replace with a 12x142 (or 12x135) axle, but my question is really whether i can use standard tune (or extralite) rear QR 135 hub with some type of 10mm thru-bolt or thru-axle.

would i be able to do this with the same hub axle and drop outs?

if i convert to, say, 12x135, the width is correct but does that mean that standard dropouts would no longer work?

thank you!
 
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