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  1. #1
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    Are integrated cranksets for weight weenies?

    Seems as if most of the major companies are phasing out seperate bottom bracket/Crank Isis combinations in favor of integrated Bullseye style. I can't even find Race Face Next LPs anymore.

    The thing is, integrated cranksets aren't that light. For example, XTR = 800 grams, which is probably the lightest. The new FSA MegaExo lists on WW as 870! Their regular Team Issue weighs 555. Throw in an FRM scandium or Am Classic BB at about 150 grams and you've got any integrated beat in terms of weight - and it's cheaper too.

    Yeah, I know about the bearing issues with Isis, but the Am Classic has replacable bearings. It just means you've gotta tear 'em apart and do maintenance every other month or so.

    Another thing to consider is Q-factor. As Nino pointed out, the integrated cranks tend to run a bit wider. I currently have a 2x9 setup on my hardtail that runs a roadie bb, and I like the lower Q number. We skinny types have narrower hips, so a narrower Q factor gives us a more efficient axis. I'll probably go with three chainrings for my new dual sussie build, but I don't really like the fact that you can't choose different bottom brackets. That was the whole idea behind Isis - a universal standard to provide options and interchangeability. Now the philosophy is proprietary exclusivity, a la Shimano.

    They do have definite positives, though. They are stiff, and they should be reliable.

    So what would you fellow weight weenies do. I'm currently involved in my dual sus project and I'm trying to decide on cranks and bottom bracket. If weight really wasn't an issue, I'd prolly go with XT, but I want my bike sub 24 lbs. But weight is important, as is stiffness.

    So what would you fellow weenies do?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    Seems as if most of the major companies are phasing out seperate bottom bracket/Crank Isis combinations in favor of integrated Bullseye style. I can't even find Race Face Next LPs anymore.

    The thing is, integrated cranksets aren't that light. For example, XTR = 800 grams, which is probably the lightest. The new FSA MegaExo lists on WW as 870! Their regular Team Issue weighs 555. Throw in an FRM scandium or Am Classic BB at about 150 grams and you've got any integrated beat in terms of weight - and it's cheaper too.

    Yeah, I know about the bearing issues with Isis, but the Am Classic has replacable bearings. It just means you've gotta tear 'em apart and do maintenance every other month or so.

    Another thing to consider is Q-factor. As Nino pointed out, the integrated cranks tend to run a bit wider. I currently have a 2x9 setup on my hardtail that runs a roadie bb, and I like the lower Q number. We skinny types have narrower hips, so a narrower Q factor gives us a more efficient axis. I'll probably go with three chainrings for my new dual sussie build, but I don't really like the fact that you can't choose different bottom brackets. That was the whole idea behind Isis - a universal standard to provide options and interchangeability. Now the philosophy is proprietary exclusivity, a la Shimano.

    They do have definite positives, though. They are stiff, and they should be reliable.

    So what would you fellow weight weenies do. I'm currently involved in my dual sus project and I'm trying to decide on cranks and bottom bracket. If weight really wasn't an issue, I'd prolly go with XT, but I want my bike sub 24 lbs. But weight is important, as is stiffness.

    So what would you fellow weenies do?
    no integrated, no ISIS...simple and old-style square for me!

    square BBs are simple and reliable, cheap and light. cranks are also easy to get and there are no compatibility issues PLUS you can choose whatever spinle lenght you like.

    stiffness?

    well - ask Mr. Alessandro Pettacchi if he thinks he looses power when sprinting past Cippollini, Zabel and all the other sprint specialists....he uses Campa square so i definitely think all that hype about stiffness in a crankset is exagerrated.

    if numbers are that important for you get Integrated XT, that's the stiffest of them all, stiffer than XTR by ca. 20% but wider by 15mm than my 560g (beat that!) square setup. nuf said.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    The new FSA MegaExo lists on WW as 870!

    That listing is for the V-Drive (metal) version, not the K-Force (carbon). According to FSA, the K-Force is supposed to weigh 750g. However, FSA seems to weigh their cranks without the crank fixing bolts. I'd wager that these are going to ship between 775 and 800g.

    I think nino is right about the XT's. Stiffer, cheaper and you can get lighter rings.

    - Jeremy -

  4. #4
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    But keep in mind, of course...

    Quote Originally Posted by - Jeremy -
    That listing is for the V-Drive (metal) version, not the K-Force (carbon). According to FSA, the K-Force is supposed to weigh 750g. However, FSA seems to weigh their cranks without the crank fixing bolts. I'd wager that these are going to ship between 775 and 800g.

    I think nino is right about the XT's. Stiffer, cheaper and you can get lighter rings.

    - Jeremy -
    That those weights INCLUDE the Bottom Bracket...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit
    That those weights INCLUDE the Bottom Bracket...
    the BB is also included in my 560g...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by - Jeremy -
    That listing is for the V-Drive (metal) version, not the K-Force (carbon). According to FSA, the K-Force is supposed to weigh 750g. However, FSA seems to weigh their cranks without the crank fixing bolts. I'd wager that these are going to ship between 775 and 800g.

    I think nino is right about the XT's. Stiffer, cheaper and you can get lighter rings.

    - Jeremy -
    Yeah, if weight weenieness wasn't really a factor, the XT's are a no-brainer. I want to get the lightest combo I can that has the stiffness I'm looking for.

    I have no doubt that the carbon crank arms and steel square taper BB that Campy uses is plenty stiff for Petacchi, but Nino's Storck Power Twigs mated to some ti square taper BB isn't really for me. Yes, I know that Nino will counter that stiffness doesn't really make a difference and that he doesn't notice, but I've run ti square taper BBs and I do notice. Nino strives to achieve ultimate lightweight. That's fine, that's his deal, I respect that, and I glean a lot of useful info from him, but I want light stuff that actually works. I have XTs on my singlespeed, and they feel much better than the dura ace BB/crank combo I have on my lightweight hardtail.
    Last edited by Patchito; 01-30-2005 at 02:34 PM. Reason: grammatically challenged all of the sudden

  7. #7
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    Yes

    Unless you are willing to go with something really exotic like Storck, then XTR cranks are for WWs! Unless you are small/light you will also notice the increased stiffness. When I get my Boone ti inner and middle rings I will post the complete weight of my XTR M-960 setup. I expect total weight with BB to be around 750 gm. Not as light as some, but very light for the stiffness. And you can use different BBs with XTR, both Race Face and Dura Ace cups/bearings are compatible, and you can pull the bearings and replace just them if you want. BTW, awhile back Larry from MT High Cyclery posted the complete weight of FSA mega-exo cranks/BB and I do not remember what is was, but I do remember that it was distressingly high. Also Race Face has announced that there will be a "Next" version in the X-type series they claim will be lighter and more affordable than XTR.
    Yes Qs could be narrower, my XTR is 168, FSA is wider, and I think Race Face has been reported at 165. These are very close to stock ISIS setups, but not as narrow as some who use the "road" sized BBs with ISIS. Apparently XT integrated is way wider...why I do not know.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows
    Unless you are willing to go with something really exotic like Storck, then XTR cranks are for WWs! Unless you are small/light you will also notice the increased stiffness. When I get my Boone ti inner and middle rings I will post the complete weight of my XTR M-960 setup. I expect total weight with BB to be around 750 gm. Not as light as some, but very light for the stiffness. And you can use different BBs with XTR, both Race Face and Dura Ace cups/bearings are compatible, and you can pull the bearings and replace just them if you want. BTW, awhile back Larry from MT High Cyclery posted the complete weight of FSA mega-exo cranks/BB and I do not remember what is was, but I do remember that it was distressingly high. Also Race Face has announced that there will be a "Next" version in the X-type series they claim will be lighter and more affordable than XTR.
    Yes Qs could be narrower, my XTR is 168, FSA is wider, and I think Race Face has been reported at 165. These are very close to stock ISIS setups, but not as narrow as some who use the "road" sized BBs with ISIS. Apparently XT integrated is way wider...why I do not know.
    I just noticed today as I was riding my XTs and looking down that my legs were a little splayed outward. That's maybe less of an issue on a singlespeed where I'm out of the saddle and rocking the bike why I apply power, but not ideal for efficient spinning.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    The thing is, integrated cranksets aren't that light. For example, XTR = 800 grams, which is probably the lightest. The new FSA MegaExo lists on WW as 870!
    Race Face Deus with TA 44 - 32 rings and alu bolts weights total 750g. Add 4 alu bolts and 22t granny and I think you'll get a little less than 800g (about 780?).

  10. #10
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    What about Extralite.....

    Their new integrated crank is a reported 160mm q-factor with 68mm bb shell and a claimed 605grams complete with rings (no bolts). I also run a RaceFace Next LP square taper that I purchased from Eurorider on these Forums and I run it with a 107mm Tune AC38(ti) spindle. I mearured it on my 73mm shell and it was 163mm q-factor, so the new Extralite is looking good to me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by morati
    Their new integrated crank is a reported 160mm q-factor with 68mm bb shell and a claimed 605grams complete with rings (no bolts). I also run a RaceFace Next LP square taper that I purchased from Eurorider on these Forums and I run it with a 107mm Tune AC38(ti) spindle. I mearured it on my 73mm shell and it was 163mm q-factor, so the new Extralite is looking good to me.

    I thought about including a disclaimer on my original post that read, "and don't mention the new Extralite integrated crankset. I really don't want to spend something like $800 U.S. dollars on a stupid pair of cranks that you can't get parts for."

  12. #12
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    FSA K force Mega Exo Cranks weigh 852 grams!


  13. #13
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    You can always use Tune's sixpack bb and fastfoot crank combo...

    should be very lite too!
    No cool signature...

  14. #14
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    2 x 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by morati
    Their new integrated crank is a reported 160mm q-factor with 68mm bb shell and a claimed 605grams complete with rings (no bolts). I also run a RaceFace Next LP square taper that I purchased from Eurorider on these Forums and I run it with a 107mm Tune AC38(ti) spindle. I mearured it on my 73mm shell and it was 163mm q-factor, so the new Extralite is looking good to me.
    I assume you are running a 2 x 9 setup? Or is your chainline OK for a triple ring setup? I ask because newer XTR front derailleurs cannot make the shift to the granny with a chainline less than about 48 mm, and even at 48 you are pushing the limits of making that shift. If you are running 2 x 9 then all would be good.

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