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  1. #1
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    How much $$$ would you throw at it?

    How much moola would you throw at a perfectly working good bike (softail race bike - Dos Niner) to take the weight down from 23.88 to 22.32?

    It would pretty much involve going from old technology of a 2 x 9 drivetrain, to a 1 x 11 (which is now old technology thanks to the Eagle having landed - 12 speed). Wheels and tires are light already.

    Yes, it's old - 2010, but it still works.
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 03-24-2016 at 01:38 PM.

  2. #2
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    Put the build list up and we can help.
    1x10 or 1x11 would be a good start.

  3. #3
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    Going to 1x should get you close to 1lb. The other ~.5 can maybe come from wheels...or if you plan in updating an older fork. Even the crank.

    Its worth it if you're happy with the frame and plan on holding onto it.

    The Dos Niner is still a pretty cool frame!

  4. #4
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    What RS VR6 said . I would personally spend whatever it took to get the weight down ands then some . Also depends on how much you would use the bike and if it would be your all round machine or not .

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by moefosho View Post
    Put the build list up and we can help.
    1x10 or 1x11 would be a good start.


    The Middleburn cranks are the RS7 because they are 180mm in length. I don't know if they take an UNO that is made with the narrow/wide teeth to be able to run 11 speed like the RS8 X crank UNO.

    I've always run an XTR 11-34 cassette, but last year when it was time for a new one I couldn't find them any more, so the shop put an XT on there. I could get lighter handlebars (maybe upgrade to wider and carbon and a shorter, lighter stem). Brakes could go to hydraulic, but these old BB7's are tweaked pretty low with the small Ashima Windcutter rotors. Looks like XTR Race brakes would be about 100 grams per side lighter when I compare rotors/levers/brakes/cables/housing/hoses.

  6. #6
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    Wider carbon bars ~ 100-200g
    shorter lighter stem ~ 40g
    XTR Race 9000 brakes ~ 100g
    Lighter crankset & bb ~100-150g
    1x conversion ~200-300g
    Fork ~ 100-250g

    If it were me, I would get carbon bars, and go 1x. That could drop a decent chunk of weight for cheap.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by moefosho View Post
    Wider carbon bars ~ 100-200g
    shorter lighter stem ~ 40g
    XTR Race 9000 brakes ~ 100g
    Lighter crankset & bb ~100-150g
    1x conversion ~200-300g
    Fork ~ 100-250g

    If it were me, I would get carbon bars, and go 1x. That could drop a decent chunk of weight for cheap.
    Yup, that looks about right.
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 03-25-2016 at 04:37 AM.

  8. #8
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    Go on a diet for a week - you can loose 2 lbs pretty easy.
    And now the bike and you weigh 2 lbs less. Better than your target.... of 1 lb.

    And that won't cost anything.
    Just saying.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    ^^^except when he has already cut all of the fat off his body already and has nothing left to go. That might work for 90% of North Americans, but not for BB.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iowagriz View Post
    ^^^except when he has already cut all of the fat off his body already and has nothing left to go. That might work for 90% of North Americans, but not for BB.
    Not much left to trim for sure in terms of the critter that sits on the bike.

    I have a squeak/creek going on with the Dos. I noticed it for the first time last weekend on a gravel grinder. Well, actually everybody else on the ride noticed it and pointed it out to me all day long.

    I pulled everything apart this morning. Overhauled the pedals, regreased the seatpost, took off the cranks and pulled the bottom bracket out - cleaned it all up and regreased everything. I know tracking down a squeak can sometimes be frustrating, so I'm going to head out for a little ride to see if that fixed it. I didn't pull the bolt on the rear Relish shock and grease it, so that would be my next step. Saddle rails as well.

    I wish I could get an exact weight on some specific forks in my flavor. I know that the new Fox Float 32 Factory can be found with a straight steerer and bar mounted remote. It would be an upgrade in technology for sure compared to the old 2008 REBA. My Roval wheelset has the end caps to run 15mm TA - so that would be a nice upgrade as well for the front end. Not sure if the Fox fork with the remote and the axle for the TA would weigh any less than the the old REBA Race with 9mm QR when all is said and done. It's hard to find actual weights listed anywhere for that flavor.

    That all leads to the dilemma of throwing money at upgrading a 7 year old frame compared to just going with a new bike that comes with all the latest technology. The fork is the one item I am leery about as I can't easily really roll that over to a new frame if the Dos Niner breaks due to the 1 1/8 straight steerer.

    The other stuff - I could (drivetrain, cockpit, brakes). I suppose therein lies my answer as to what I should upgrade...

  11. #11
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    you can run a straight fork in a tapered tube with a reducer crown race or with a certain bottom headset. It's a possibilty for sure.

  12. #12
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    To your original question, I just settle on a price per gram, then spend what that determines.

    So, I was working to about 0.80 per gram, but that didn't get me to a weight I was happy with, so I increased the spend to 1.00 per gram, that got me to the weight I felt was right, and entailed a spend of x. Sometimes I spent over my 1 per gram limit, but was justified using man-maths.

    Spend whatever you want, scrap it all and buy something new whenever you feel you want to, and when it fits with your overall priorities. The age of the bike doesn't determine overall performance

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by khardrunner14 View Post
    you can run a straight fork in a tapered tube with a reducer crown race or with a certain bottom headset. It's a possibilty for sure.
    True. My wife also has a bike that could benefit from a suspension fork if need be at some point in case my Dos gave up the ghost (she rides an older Niner Air 9 that she runs with a rigid carbon fork).

    I am a bit partial to the Dos Niner as I have raced one now for 10 years! Life span of the scandium frame is more or less 4-5 years (I'm on my second frame as the first one snapped at the chainstay weld), but this one is still going strong and is a blast to ride.

    And of course they stopped making the Dos Niner back in 2010-11.





    The BMC softail with the full 2 x XTR is $10K and would come in around 20-21 pounds. Ditto on a Moots softail in terms of price, but it wouldn't weigh as little as the BMC.

    I think I could throw $2K at this Dos to cut the weight, but that's about $1K per pound of weight loss.

  14. #14
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    If the frame is near the end of service, perhaps that should really be the deciding factor.

  15. #15
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    How about going for:

    • Mt Zoom riser bar, save 180g
    • KCNC Wing Stem, save 80g
    • KCNC EVA Foam grips, save 60g


    That gives you some good cheap weight savings, around 3/4 pound for less than $200, then stay with that, with a view to moving the new components over to your next bike.

    You might also want to consider a chinese ebay saddle to give another 100+g saving for very little money. After that it get much more expensive

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelV8V View Post
    How about going for:

    • Mt Zoom riser bar, save 180g
    • KCNC Wing Stem, save 80g
    • KCNC EVA Foam grips, save 60g


    That gives you some good cheap weight savings, around 3/4 pound for less than $200, then stay with that, with a view to moving the new components over to your next bike.

    You might also want to consider a chinese ebay saddle to give another 100+g saving for very little money. After that it get much more expensive
    Good suggestions.

    Bar and stem combo change for sure. I just have to figure out the math for stem length and degree of angle when going to a wider bar (I'd be moving from 685mm to 720mm width). I've read the oft touted rule - when going to a longer bar, for every 20mm in width you add, shorten your stem 10mm - or something to that effect. Does one also adjust the height as the arms/hands get wider - or keep it the same?

    Lots of options and anything I purchase will be made with an eye to being able to roll it over to another bike frame if the Dos gives out.

  17. #17
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    I'd swap the bars with your existing stem and the see how it feels. My opinion is that there is no hard and fast rule so it's best to experiment and find what setup works best for you.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by csteven71 View Post
    I'd swap the bars with your existing stem and the see how it feels. My opinion is that there is no hard and fast rule so it's best to experiment and find what setup works best for you.
    Thanks for all of the suggestions. Thanks to some really good sales, and clearances going on right now (most likely due to the new 12 speed stuff being introduced) I've got some sweet parts coming for my Dos Niner. I will post up the results with before and after pictures.

    I thoroughly inspected the frame looking for any hint of a hairline crack in the paint and cannot find any. It looks to be in pretty good shape for a 7 year old frame. So I am going to go ahead and upgrade to some lighter parts on this bike since I like the frame and the ride it provides so much.

    Everything I have ordered was chosen in mind that it can be moved over to another, more modern frame if and when this one gives up the ghost.

    In the meantime, I'm dressing her up (the Dos) with some more modern, and lighter technology.

  19. #19
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    Color me impressed with what it takes to build a lighter bike in 2016 compared to years ago (such as 2008-10) when we talked about Extralite, Syntace, Luckynino, Ti bolts from some obscure website, and on and on with some difficulty in ordering parts, finding things in stock, and the difficulty getting everything you needed in a timely manner.

    Fast forward to 2016 and man is it a lot easier!!!

    My WW bike parts showed up in the form of mainstream bike industry companies such as Shimano, WTB, Specialized, Fox, and Race Face. Stuff that is readily in stock and delivered in a couple of business days. Most all of it on sale as well thanks to the Eagle landing and early Spring deals. This is some nice kit!!! I took the plunge because if the frame craps out, I can move all of these parts over to something else - or at least that is giving me some peace of mind.

    I've yet to cut the fork's steerer, trim the brake housing, and bleed them, but I'm down to 21.75 pounds hanging on the scale with the updated build which is not too shabby at all for a size XL Dos Niner compared to all those years of running it between 23.88 and 24.36 pounds. I am now more up to the future in terms of 1 x 11, hydraulic brakes, external BB, wide bar, carbon bits.

    Pictures to come of the new build once I finish it. Sorry, I didn't take any yet.

    Here's what it looked like in the before scenario at 24.36 pounds for last Saturday's 62 mile gravel race...



    Stripped down and ready for some new love...


  20. #20
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    I'm no weight weenie, but I'm always trying to trim grams on my bikes for very little $$$, so this thread was a nice read.

    My recommendations would've echoed those already presented by others, most notably: wider, lighter bars; shorter stem; and 1x?? drivetrain. Sounds like you're on your way. Please update when the re-build is complete.

    -- HDP

  21. #21
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    Dos Niner weight loss & modern tech (bike parts) transformation...

    I still have to sort out the cockpit (best stem length for this wider bar, how many spacers?, or slammed? how much to trim the steerer tube, etc..), and trim and bleed the front brake - but here she is! That's all on tap for this week. It feels good slammed as well as with any amount of spacers up to 40mm as I adapt to it all. Most likely will end up in a bit more of an aggressive position for XC racing.

    New to me: 1 x 11; 15mm TA on this bike; hydraulic disc brakes; wide bars, BB30 & External BB, lock on grips, DT Swiss RWS rear axle - that's all bumped me up into - or so I thought - the latest and greatest. Of course, now we have 1 x 12 and Fox has a new XC fork about 1/2 pound lighter that will come out by the Summer. Ah, timing is everything in life - right!?

    Oh well - nearly everything I purchased on this upgrade was on sale...



    Bottom line - I do like the Dos Niner frame. Too bad Salsa decided to axe it, but c'est la vie. I feel that Salsa certainly came up with a HT length that could be considered short (110mm) in the XL size. Most 29"er frames/companies recovered and bumped their HT lengths up in the L and XL sizes as the trend gained traction and evolved. Surly Karate Monkey went from the original frame having only a 105mm HT length for a size XL to the more realistic 125mm HT length (which prompted me to sell my 2003-04 KM frame and get the newer frame with longer HT a few years ago). I'm sure Salsa would have done the same had they chosen to stay with the Dos Niner as one of their XC frames beyond 2010.

    In the meantime, and this being the 7th season of riding/racing this frame (which was a crash replacement after the original green one I bought broke) - I love the Salsa Dos Niner frame. I've always had to deal with the short HT. In fact, I've run the Dos Niner with enough plumbing to get the bars up to around 1" below the saddle, and I've run it with the stem slammed with a long 120mm 0 Degree Thomsen (which I like for XC racing).

    Back before my green frame broke, this was my favorite (and heavy at 25+ pounds) build for XC racing...



    Running it just about slammed with the 120mm 0 degree stem the past few years...



    My new Easton bar is a bit too wide for the 120mm stem for me to maintain control, so theres is a 110mm on there now. Yup, it's hard for me to let go and just go shorter, but I need to experiment. Going from a 10 degree sweep 660mm flat bar to a 6 degree sweep 720mm bar is hard to figure out on paper what I needed in terms of stem length with the additional 60mm in width and less sweep. The 110mm feels fine with it, but I may need to try a 100mm and a 90mm - and maybe even something shorter before I settle in on what works best. In other words, what I end up with will take some more experimenting.

    2.63 pounds shaved off from it's former build (2 x 9, 2008 REBA Race fork, Avid BB7 brakes, older Roval wheels)...



    I ordered some custom stickers for the Fox 32 to get rid of the ugly for me orange stickers that it came with (who at FOX came up with orange?!!!!). I got silver highlights on the custom stickers from Silkgraphics to match the Slippery Silver Dos Niner frame...



    And even got a custom little Dos Niner sticker for the arch made....



    I had the chance to weigh everything individually, so here is the parts list:



    Sure, foam grips, Thomson Masterpiece post, a shorter/lighter stem could all trim a little bit more - but I can't complain with the overall weight for a size XL 29"er soft tail frame build. Not only the weight loss, but the upgrade to a lot of more modern bike technology in this build has me stoked for the new to me ride.

    Last edited by BruceBrown; 04-11-2016 at 06:24 PM.

  22. #22
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    This has been a good thread to follow, looks like you've made some good component choices.

    Have a look at the KCNC wing stem when you settle on a size, they are scandium with Ti bolts, and come in at around the 95g for sensible prices on ebay.

    Enjoy your new bike

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelV8V View Post
    This has been a good thread to follow, looks like you've made some good component choices.

    Have a look at the KCNC wing stem when you settle on a size, they are scandium with Ti bolts, and come in at around the 95g for sensible prices on ebay.

    Enjoy your new bike
    Good suggestion for the cost and weight. I see some of the sizes are available on the Fair Wheel Bikes site. I've got a bit more experimenting to do (as in letting go of my old ways and just using a short stem to go with these wide bars). I rode a lap with a 75mm last night and loved it, although the angle was too high which was creating issues on climbs. I am going to flip it negative today to set it up and get it just about where a 70mm KCNC with 5 degree rise would be with my bars.

  24. #24
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    Long live the Dos! Those will always be killer bikes. As a fellow softail rider, good call on the Specialized seatpost.

  25. #25
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    That looks great! How's the gear range working for you?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by csteven71 View Post
    That looks great! How's the gear range working for you?
    So far so good on my local trails. On paper, the 34T up front with the 11-40 in the rear sounded just about right. I also knew that Shimano was coming out with a wider range (in addition to the XT 11-42) that I could swap to if need be.

    I pretty much never got out of the big ring on my double 29/40 or 26/38 paired with the 9 speed 11-34 in the rear in terms of an XC race. I probably won't use the 40T cog very often during a race unless it is a steep, sustained climb, or I'm spinning in heavy traffic on opening sections. I did notice that on flat connector sections (such as paved sections connecting various segments of singletrack in one of our parks) that I could miss having a bigger front ring for all out sprints, training intervals, etc... . But I knew that before choosing this gearing.

    Who knows, though? First race this weekend will be more telling.

    Edit: Gear range was fine for the 1st XC race. I didn't even use the 40T as the course's climbs were not that tough. There are more courses coming up where I know I will use it.

    Thomson 70mm showed up yesterday, so time to make the final steerer tube cut after work tonight. That will remove one 20g spacer, and whatever that much weighs on the steerer tube. My first time running a stubby little stem thanks to wide bars which is hard for me to wrap my head around, but it handles really well and responsive with climbs and descents being just fine.
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 04-20-2016 at 09:46 AM.

  27. #27
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    I really like the build! Looks awesome!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mood View Post
    I really like the build! Looks awesome!
    Thanks!

    Final weight after going with the stubby little Thomson 70mm, cutting the steerer tube, cutting the front brake housing and bleeding it came out to...



    The Dos Niner before the cut - making sure I had the spacer stack correct (I used one 7mm Chris King spacer underneath the Thomson 70mm 10 degree stem). I did the usual routine of measure a bunch of times, try a few things out, and then went for it...



    Tested it out again riding a bit in the neighborhood after the cut and installation, and all seems good to go!





    I had not really planned on it, but I like the Gold accent color underneath the WTB Volt Carbon saddle as it ties in with the Fox fork stanchions. It's a very comfortable saddle with the same shape/size as the Rocket V which I have ridden for years. Being able to get it in the narrow width for my skinny underside was perfect.

    The wider bar to me (and I know 720mm is not wide for some folks) and the shorter stem combination - plus the rake on the Fox fork over my old REBA Race - have all in combination really livened up the steering, cornering, and slow technical handling of this Dos.

    The Relish shock in combination with the CG-R post from Specialized actually works quite well together. It's a nice little something special back there to keep me fresh.

    On the left side of the spreadsheet is the before digging into the family estate fund to finance the conversion to 2016 weight weenie technology, and on the right is the end result...

    by
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 04-15-2016 at 06:57 PM.

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