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  1. #101
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    blood samples?

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRT BOY
    I amily use translators, but I can uderstand some Spanish and a little Italian.
    Funny, but I find the BBC to best one of the best!

    You know I don't think it's has anything to do with the French people. Just a lab that might just suck and is possibly dirty and L'Equipe being behind things.

    Then agin, the TDF does NOT need bad press like this and out of 103 TDFs NO WINNER has ever been stripped.

    Before someones' career and livelyhodd is stripped form them, let's be REALLY, REALLY sure he is in the wrong. Why not have another lab or two test the results? let's run a real test on Landis himself. If he is clean, submit a blood sample! If you are clean, this will let tell the truth!!!

    This is really hard to say what is truly going on.....
    you can take almost ALL blood samples of Tdf riders and won't be able to find anything. that's the art of doping to the limits. blood doping itself can't be seen at all if everything is done correct. that's why several top athletes never have/had any positive tests....but it doesn't mean they are clean.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRT BOY
    Still, it does not say SYNTHETIC HORMONES FOUND!
    How's this for some gas on the fire:

    Floyd Landis' doping samples contained synthetic testosterone, indicating the Tour de France champion's elevated levels were not produced naturally, the head of France's anti-doping commission said Saturday.

    Pierre Bordry, who heads the French anti-doping council, said the lab found that testosterone in Landis' urine samples came from an outside source.

    "I have received a text message from Chatenay-Malabry lab that indicates the 'B' sample of Floyd Landis' urine confirms testosterone was taken in an exogenous way," Bordry told The Associated Press.

    The revelation could damage Landis' defense prospects. He has claimed the testosterone in his body was "natural and produced by my own organism."

    The American cyclist's backup "B" sample came back positive Saturday, confirming the original "A" test.
    Landis could be stripped of the Tour title and banned for two years.

    Testosterone, a male sex hormone, helps build muscle and improve stamina. The urine tests carried out on Landis after his victory in the Tour's 17 stage turned up a testosterone/epitestosterone ratio of 11:1 - far in excess of the 4:1 limit.

    A report this week in the New York Times cited an unidentified source from the UCI as saying an analysis of Landis' first sample by carbon isotope ratio testing had detected synthetic testosterone, which indicated it had been ingested.

    Jacques De Ceaurriz, the head of the Chatenay-Malabray lab, said the isotope testing procedure involving a mass spectrometer is totally reliable.

    "It's foolproof. This analysis tells the difference between endogenous and exogenous," he told the AP. "No error is possible in isotopic readings."

    Landis spokesman Michael Henson disputed that.

    "There is no conclusive evidence that shows that this test can show definitively the presence of exogenous testosterone," Henson said.

    But World Anti-Doping Agency chief Dick Pound said the tests were scientifically valid.

    "The overwhelming scientific consensus would hold these tests are reliable and what they found is what they found," he told the AP. "Had there been any scientific difficulties or technical difficulties we would have heard about it."

    Pound said confirmation of the synthetic testosterone finding would undermine any Landis defense.

    "It's probably a very good preemptive move to close down yet another avenue of complaint or argument," he said. "The science is pretty well accepted. The history of these tests are pretty well established."



    Associated Press Writer Jamey Keaten and AP Sports Writer Stephen Wilson in London contributed to this report.

    I'm not a scientist but it appears pretty clearly that synthetics were discovered. Do you have conflicting info?
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  3. #103
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    I still want an "Offical" report saying...

    there was Synthetic tes found. If so, then Landis is guilty on tow things.
    1. Stupid enough to dope
    2. Stupid enough not to make sure notig he gets is tamperd with.

    I wonder if the Phonak team is behind this and possibly drugs thier athletes without their consent. Phonak is a dirty team. 9 riders in 3 yrs have been busted. Yes, maybe Floyd knew about it and did on his own, maybe he was FROCED by Phonak to dope or again he is too stupid to know what goes in his body!

    If he know comes to the defense that others have used "I have not knowingly too drugs" I think I wil puke! No elite athlete has any excuse not knowing what he takes with strict doping rules.

    Also POscar gets the tiltle, good for him. Is he the true winner with the gift Floyd and Phonak gave him? Not sure, but we he was given the jersey we rode and defended it well!

    Floyd, if you doped, YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!! I was not really a fan, but after watching this tour and stage 17, this guy pulled my in and I felt so great watching him! What of F'in was of time tat was .....

    If Phonak is dirty, Flyod should turn the tables on them and bust this whole thing wide open showing TEAM and SPONSORS are also pressuring riders and make them dope! why not, your pro caereer is DONE!
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  4. #104
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    Just finished to read l'Equipe.
    The Landis affair only made the small titles in page 11.
    They say that exogen testosterone was found. A lot of other experts hired by landis atorney were present for the test of the B sample.

    Anyway, you still know my point of view. No-one of this guys are clean.
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  5. #105
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    Surely they're not all doped. The difference between the best and the worst riders is much greater than between a clean and a doped rider, both in time trials and on climbs.
    Suppose all were doped to da max, except for Lance (or Landis). would the yank be hanging from the back of the field? Even without doping regulation and testing, I would not believe that to happen. So surely many of them are clean, just using legal additives of which they don't make secrets to the UCI, just to rivals. There's so much legal to just get a little edge, for every body function you're targeting, true doping is just not worth the risk. A bit of lowered epitestosterone is not going to boost your performance over a diet of just dry bead and clear water to the level of good nutricion and smart additives.

  6. #106
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    ...Almost makes ya wonder. After his bonk stage, he made it a point to say he was going to crack open a few beers, only to say the alcohol (beers and Jack) could be the reason for the elevated levels. Think he had the synthetic testosterone readily available and knew he was going to use it?

    Just a thought. Maybe a stretch though.
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  7. #107
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    And now Pereiro isn't queasy anymore...

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Surely they're not all doped. The difference between the best and the worst riders is much greater than between a clean and a doped rider, both in time trials and on climbs.
    This is very far from true !
    Read old drug users stories, or just try some products for yourself !

    You will see for sure that even a really great athelete can't be ahead of good guys + products....


    There was an interesting study on french tv tonight, about recent drug affairs, in the US (Landis and Gatlin). They say that the way we deal with supplements are very different. This is casual stuff in the us, but is considered "border edge" in France. But the main big difference is in mentality:
    In the Us people prefere to be at the top, a winner, even if they died at 40, rather than being just average and living up to 80... This is so strange to me....

    There was a nice interview with former track star Stephane Diagana, who said that it would be better to enhance financial repression against doppers. He said that you can win a lot of money in sport, and use doping for that (a nice doping program a world level cost 100 000 $). Even if this guys get caught, they just comme back 2 years latter and continue to make big bucks. Look at Marion Jones !!! He said that with this system, there always going to be able to find someone ready to take the risk to be able to go up it's social class.
    Giving huge financial penalties to doppers would prevent this.
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  9. #109
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    If you just ban dopers for life, that works too.

    What I was getting at : the worst rider of the TdF isn't going to smoke a fit but clean Lance.
    Festina was stuffed with EPO, at least most of them even admitted. They already were one of the strongest teams before the (1998?) scandals, but that year they were pretty dominant. All were good climbers before, but they almost faught each other on hill that year. Apparently the teams they won some ground on, were not into EPO yet. But Festina was not the "loser" team before they found EPO.

    I do believe that if I'd boost my hematocrot from it's probable 44% (never checked) to 50%, I'd probably make a step up in my sports class. Maybe do nicely in elite. I won't be challenging my (clean) heroes though, they have too big a lead over me.
    If you're having for instance Meirhaeghe, Absalon and Brentjens each at the peak of their ability ever, monitored 24hrs non-stop for a long time, checking everything they're taking, and only one of them gets all the dope he want, as long as he stays negative in tests, sure he'll win the race. But a random elite won't beat these guys just like that with some dope. Look at Erwin Bakker, extremely telented. when he doped he made a leap forward that everyone had been expecting from him, but he never won something big, while on EPO and steroids, with strong determination.

    What I mean to say : dopers suck, but not all pro's suck that way. But I myself do take care of myself in races I value. I use sugars in my drinks, I use herbs and other additives that are not on the doping list and everywhere to buy. I have pretty wild asthma but I don't use Ventolin because I want to do without, even if I can get a waver for that pretty easily.
    Don't forget that many people are too scared to cheat. In school, they didn't dare to cheap, afraid of being caugt. Who wouldn't steal a simple pen (I did once, and it made great impression on me, so I never repeated), etc, etc. Afraid of being caught, or just really righteous. You do not have to be a doper to become a pro, if you're sufficiently talented. If you unsufficiently talented, but evil enough to dope, your pro career won't be very long.

    Rant over, time for bed.

  10. #110
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    money...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    What I mean to say : dopers suck, but not all pro's suck that way.
    don't forget that we are talking about pro riders. they all have talent or they wouldn't have be in teams...right? they make their living by riding bicycles. the better the more.

    i read some interviews of a former swiss pro rider,also winner of some Tdf stage (Rolf Järmann if i'm right). after he quit riding he admittet he had doped, epo etc. he explained how it was all done and he surely knows how wide doping is used in the pro ranks. he says that a minor effect of 2% makes you earn so much more money that it's hard to stay clean.

    then there was an article in TOUR magazin, europes biggest roadie magazine from germany. they explained how blood doping is done and that it can raise your power output by ca. 5%. if done right blood doping can't be tested!! only if the doctors don't work clean enough or if something goes wrong blood doping can be shown. but they say it's pretty common these days in all endurance sports.

    yur theory of some guys being better than others is sure true BUT some guys, especially in past TdFs, simply rode like machines. never showing some weaknesses day after day. unlike this years tour, where you first thought things hvae changed. almost everyone had a bad day. some a really bad one. to me that really looked like some human beeings again. too bad the Landis case ruins this fata morgana again...

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    Ok I have three questions... things that don't add up to me

    1. Landis' Testosterone/Epi level was 11:1, highest allowable is 4:1, right? Ok. But wasn't it also true that his Testosterone level was on the LOW end (according to what I read, ESPN)? So then the Epi level was super low. Does having a low Epi level make you better and do any doping methods leave your testosterone alone and lower Epi level? WHY would someone do that?

    2. Landis was tested 7 other times in the tour and came back normal. So let's assume he takes something that makes him fail the test for that ONE STAGE. Would it really make that big of a difference or any at all for one stage? Does a testosterone or rather low epi levels make a difference for one day???

    3. What were his normal Testosterone and epi levels since they had 7 other tests? Did his Testosterone level spike up or his epi level spike DOWN?

    Food for thought, screw all that nationality talk

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    leave it to those who know!

    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery
    Ok I have three questions... things that don't add up to me

    1. Landis' Testosterone/Epi level was 11:1, highest allowable is 4:1, right? Ok. But wasn't it also true that his Testosterone level was on the LOW end (according to what I read, ESPN)? So then the Epi level was super low. Does having a low Epi level make you better and do any doping methods leave your testosterone alone and lower Epi level? WHY would someone do that?

    2. Landis was tested 7 other times in the tour and came back normal. So let's assume he takes something that makes him fail the test for that ONE STAGE. Would it really make that big of a difference or any at all for one stage? Does a testosterone or rather low epi levels make a difference for one day???

    3. What were his normal Testosterone and epi levels since they had 7 other tests? Did his Testosterone level spike up or his epi level spike DOWN?

    Food for thought, screw all that nationality talk
    if it makes sense or not isn't of interest. sometimes you'll find some stuff which only acts to cover other supplements... sometimes that's just a result of having taken something and the corps responds differently...anyway - they showed a clear discrepancy. now it's up to Floid to prove how the stuff came in there.

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    fair enough, I agree Floyd has had a bad test and needs to prove his innocence and why it came up.

    I'm just saying this seems to be a bit more obscure case then just the "we found epo in his blood" cases, do you agree? And also speculating why his test would come up like this for one day only

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery
    fair enough, I agree Floyd has had a bad test and needs to prove his innocence and why it came up.

    I'm just saying this seems to be a bit more obscure case then just the "we found epo in his blood" cases, do you agree? And also speculating why his test would come up like this for one day only
    "...testosterone in Landis' urine came from an outside source." This is pretty straightforward. Synthetic testosterone was discovered. This is key regardless of the ratios of epi. to test. issue. It's very akin to testing for and discovering EPO on a test, to my mind. Bottom line is ya can't take in exogenous testosterone and still be a clean racer. They found it and now he's gotta come up with an argument to override this fact. Hopefully it's better then the beer and wisky argument.
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    A French 1500m runner got caught by the federation before the euro champs, and was not allowed to go to sweden by the French federation...

    Marion Jones is back on the track and people applaud her
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/12/sp...ewanted=1&_r=1

    very similar to what l'equipe was saying ...but now it the NY times

    Ex-Teammates of Cycling Star Admit Drug Use

    Jacky Naegelen/Reuters
    Frankie Andreu, right, with Lance Armstrong in the 1993 Tour de France. Andreu says he took drugs to help Armstrong win the race in 1999.

    Two of Lance Armstrong’s eight teammates from the 1999 Tour de France have admitted for the first time that they used the banned endurance-boosting drug EPO in preparing for the race that year, when they helped Armstrong capture the first of his record seven titles.


    Fears for Sport Made Cyclist Come Clean (September 12, 2006) Their disclosures, in interviews with The New York Times, are rare examples of candor in a sport protected by a powerful code of silence. The confessions come as cycling is reeling from doping scandals, including Floyd Landis’s fall in July from Tour champion to suspected cheat.

    One of the two teammates who admitted using EPO while on Armstrong’s United States Postal Service team is Frankie Andreu, a 39-year-old retired team captain who had been part of Armstrong’s inner circle for more than a decade. In an interview at his home in Dearborn, Mich., Andreu said that he took EPO for only a few races and that he was acknowledging his use now because he thought doping was damaging his sport. Continued doping and denial by riders may scare away fans and sponsors for good, he said.

    “There are two levels of guys,” Andreu said. “You got the guys that cheat and guys that are just trying to survive.”

    The other rider who said he used EPO spoke on condition of anonymity because he said he did not want to jeopardize his job in cycling.

    “The environment was certainly one of, to be accepted, you had to use doping products,” he said. “There was very high pressure to be one of the cool kids.”

    Neither rider ever tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs, but both said they felt as if they had to take EPO to make the Tour team in 1999. Andreu would not say specifically when he took the drug, and the second rider said he did not use EPO during the Tour. Anti-doping experts say the benefits of taking EPO, the synthetic hormone erythropoietin, which boosts stamina by bolstering the body’s production of oxygen-rich red blood cells, can last several weeks or more.

    Both of Armstrong’s former teammates also said they never saw Armstrong take any banned substances.

    Armstrong, who turns 35 next week, has long been dogged by accusations that he doped before and after his remarkable recovery from cancer, a comeback that made him a transcendent cultural figure and a symbol to cancer patients and survivors worldwide. He has repeatedly denied using performance-enhancing drugs and has aggressively defended himself in interviews and through lawsuits, even more than a year into his retirement.

    Multiple attempts to interview Armstrong for this article — through his lawyers, his agent and a spokesman — were unsuccessful. His agent, Bill Stapleton, wrote in an e-mail message yesterday that Armstrong would not comment because he was attending a meeting of the President’s Cancer Panel in Minneapolis.

    Armstrong once said that cycling had no secrets and that hard work was the key to winning. Recent events and disclosures, however, demonstrate that cycling does, indeed, have secrets.

    Dozens of interviews with people in the sport as well as court documents in a contract dispute between Armstrong and a company called SCA Promotions reveal the protective silence shared by those in professional cycling. A new picture of the sport emerges: a murky world of clandestine meetings, mysterious pills and thermoses that clink with the sound of drug vials rattling inside them.

    This year’s Tour began with a doping investigation that implicated nearly 60 riders and ended with Landis’s testing positive for synthetic testosterone. He became the third of Armstrong’s former lieutenants to fail a drug test after setting off on his own career as a lead rider.

    “There’s no doubt that cyclists have bought into the institutional culture of cheating, and that’s a big, big problem for the sport,” said Steven Ungerleider, a research psychologist, antidoping expert and consultant for college, Olympic and professional sports organizations. He described that culture as “a mob psychology.”

    A Widespread Problem

    In his 12 years as a professional cyclist, Frankie Andreu was a domestique, a worker bee whose job was to help a top rider like Armstrong win.

    (Page 2 of 3)



    He said his introduction to performance-enhancing drugs came in 1995, when he and Armstrong were with the Motorola team. He said some of the team’s riders felt that they could no longer compete with some European teams that had rapidly improved and were rumored to be using EPO.


    Fears for Sport Made Cyclist Come Clean (September 12, 2006) Motorola’s top riders asked their doctor, Massimo Testa, about the drug’s safety because more than a dozen young riders in Europe had died mysteriously of heart attacks. Some cyclists had linked those deaths to rumored EPO use.

    Dr. Testa, now a sports medicine specialist at the University of California at Davis, said in a telephone interview that he had given each rider literature about EPO, in case any of them decided to use it on their own.

    Dr. Testa said he urged the riders not to take the drug, but he wanted them to be educated.

    “If you want to use a gun, you had better use a manual, rather than to ask the guy on the street how to use it,” he said. “I cannot rule out that someone did it.”

    One of Armstrong’s teammates, Steve Swart, has admitted using EPO while riding for Motorola. He discussed his time with the team in the book “L.A. Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong,” which was published in 2004, only in French.

    The book’s allegations that Armstrong doped prompted the lawsuit between Armstrong and SCA Promotions, which was settled out of court in February. Because of Armstrong’s suspected drug use, SCA withheld a $5 million bonus after he won the 2004 Tour de France. Armstrong and Tailwind Sports, the company that owned his cycling team, sued SCA for the money.

    Testimony in the case was never supposed to become public. A confidential settlement awarded Armstrong and Tailwind Sports the bonus, and $2.5 million in interest and lawyers’ costs. The Times obtained the legal documents in July.

    In testimony in the case, Swart, a retired rider from New Zealand, said top riders on Motorola discussed EPO in 1995. He testified that Armstrong told teammates that there was “only one road to take” to be competitive. In a sworn deposition, Swart said the meaning of Armstrong’s comment was clear: “We needed to start a medical program of EPO.”

    EPO, cortisone and testosterone were common in European cycling, Swart said in a telephone interview. He said using cortisone, a steroid, was regarded as “sucking on a candy stick.” Cyclists acquired the drugs from European pharmacies and took them in private, Swart said. “You basically became your own doctor,” he said.

    He said signs of drug use were widespread at the 1994 and 1995 Tours, when there was no testing for EPO.

    “Everyone was walking around with their own thermos, and you could hear the sound — tinkle, tinkle, tinkle — coming from the thermoses because they were filled with ice and vials of EPO,” Swart said. “You needed to keep the EPO cold, and every night at the hotel, the guys would be running around trying to find some ice to fill up their thermos.”

    ‘It Was for Lance’

    In the weeks before the 1999 Tour, Andreu’s wife, Betsy, found one of those thermoses in her refrigerator. She was furious.

    “I remember Frankie saying: ‘You don’t understand. This is the only way I can even finish the Tour,’ ” she said. “ ‘After this, I promise you, I’ll never do it again.’ ”

    Betsy Andreu said she grudgingly watched her husband help Armstrong traverse the mountains at the Tour that year. Later, she said, she was angry when her husband said he had once allowed a team doctor to inject him with an unidentified substance.

    To this day, she blames Armstrong for what she said was pressure on teammates to use drugs. Her husband, she said, “didn’t use EPO for himself, because as a domestique, he was never going to win that race.”

    “It was for Lance,” she said.

    Three years earlier, she and Frankie, who were engaged at the time, visited Armstrong at an Indiana hospital after he received his cancer diagnosis. Last fall, under court order to testify in the SCA Promotions case, the Andreus said that they had overheard Armstrong tell doctors he had used steroids, testosterone, cortisone, growth hormone and EPO
    (Page 3 of 3)



    Armstrong testified that no one at the hospital had asked him if he had used performance-enhancing drugs. He testified that Betsy Andreu had lied because “she hates me,” and that Frankie Andreu had lied because “he’s trying to back up his old lady.”


    Fears for Sport Made Cyclist Come Clean (September 12, 2006) Frankie Andreu, once Armstrong’s close friend and roommate, testified that he never knew if Armstrong was doping. But once, he testified, he saw Armstrong sorting “little round pills” on his bed before a race. “He talked about that he would take these at different parts during the race,” Andreu said under oath, adding that he did not know what the pills were. Armstrong testified that they were caffeine.

    Johan Bruyneel, the longtime director of Armstrong’s team, did not respond to an interview request through a team spokesman.

    In a news conference he held at this year’s Tour, Armstrong said his opponents in the SCA case were “crushed — totally crushed” upon cross-examination.

    Sean Breen, one of Armstrong’s lawyers, said the opposing witnesses were not credible. In the case of Betsy Andreu, Breen said, “Like her testimony, I think her motives are completely unexplainable.” He added that Frankie Andreu’s dismissal as a rider on the United States Postal Service team after the 2000 season might have been one reason for their testimony. (Andreu returned to the team the next year as the team’s American director.)

    Armstrong has said he never tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs. He tested positive for cortisone at the 1999 Tour, but he was not penalized after producing a doctor’s prescription for a skin cream he said he used for saddle sores.

    At this year’s Tour, Armstrong said he was tired of dealing with doping accusations.

    “Why keep fighting lawsuits when my time needs to be spent being a dad, being a philanthropist, being a fan of cycling, being a guy that just wants to have fun?” he said.

    Pat McQuaid, president of the International Cycling Union, the sport’s governing body, said the union’s lawyers would review the SCA Promotions case after they prepared files on the riders implicated in the Spanish doping scandal that preceded this year’s Tour. In May, the Spanish police raided several apartments in Madrid and seized steroids, hormones, EPO, nearly 100 bags of frozen blood and equipment for treating blood. The Tour began in July with nine riders being barred from the event after they were implicated in the investigation.

    Cleaning Up the Sport

    Armstrong has kept his distance from cycling’s recent troubles.

    He is training for the New York City Marathon in November. In a few weeks, Armstrong will celebrate the 10th anniversary of his cancer diagnosis, and he has a new line of apparel from Nike commemorating the date.

    At the same time, some of his former teammates and rivals are struggling.

    Ivan Basso of Italy, Jan Ullrich of Germany and Francisco Mancebo of Spain — who finished second, third and fourth when Armstrong won the 2005 Tour — were all implicated in the Spanish scandal. Government and sports authorities continue to investigate them.

    One of Armstrong’s former lieutenants, the 2004 Olympic champion Tyler Hamilton, was also named in the Spanish investigation. His two-year suspension for blood doping in 2004 ends this month, but his future remains uncertain. The cycling union said it would seek a lifetime ban for Hamilton if he were found guilty of wrongdoing in the Spanish case.

    Another former lieutenant of Armstrong’s, Roberto Heras of Spain, tested positive for EPO last year. He is serving a two-year suspension.

    Landis, meanwhile, could be stripped of his Tour title. The United States Anti-Doping Agency is expected to decide whether to charge Landis with a doping violation sometime in the next week, according to Landis’s lawyer, Howard Jacobs.

    All of those cyclists have denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but antidoping officials hope that will change, if those athletes have, indeed, doped.

    Travis Tygart, general counsel for the United States Anti-Doping Agency, says he encourages athletes to be honest. “Those who stand up will hopefully influence other competitors in the sport to be clean,” he said.

    Ultimately, Frankie Andreu said, only riders can clean up cycling.

    “There’s always going to be the guy who denies and denies that he’s ever used something,” he said. “Nobody really knows what that guy is really doing when he goes home and closes the door.”

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    Good for frankie! He admits that he doped and NEVER saw lance do it. he was not good enough like most Doms to keep up with the best and must dope to survive.

    Untill someone flat outs says "I saw Lance dope" or his tests are PROVEN to be doped, then please let this die.

    yes many guys in cycling dope and some will never get caught.
    IMO, you can't really say a guy is a doper, unless he is caught!

    But i am glad frakie said something. he also sang like a Canary because he is now out of cycling. Sour grapes? I whish the other rider would identifiy himself.

    I would love to see a BIG TIME rider just come claean and bow the whistle on the whole damn sport, team directors, sponsors, whoever is pressuring these guys to dope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRT BOY
    Good for frankie! He admits that he doped and NEVER saw lance do it. he was not good enough like most Doms to keep up with the best and must dope to survive.

    Ha Dirt Boy, you make my day !

    Your will not to see the what is evident is incredible
    Well, mankind needs some heroic figures to be able to live. What would life be without dreams ?

    Last week i spoke with a pediatrist who used to work for a pro team during the tour. He told me that the tour organisation gives special garbage cans for seringles, and collects them at every stage...
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

  19. #119
    mtbr member
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    it's clear that TDF organization needs ISPN media coverage$$$ and was protecting idols such as Lance from bad surprises

  20. #120
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
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    Awesome! To be able to help Armstrong, "normal" world class athletes need to dope!

    Would Lance have been a doper already when he beat all of the triathlon world in a sport he just picked because it seemed like something he might do better at than ballsports? He was 16 at the time, BTW... The guy just is a genetic freakcase. If he'd take dope, he'd quit the sport out of boredom. No fun lapping the field in a world championship, each time... He's an athlete to compete, you'll know when you read his books. Not to overclass the rest of the world whatever crimes it takes.

  21. #121
    the train keeps rollin
    Reputation: snowdrifter's Avatar
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    Malol the Tool,

    Can't even get Floyd's name right, implicates Lance, what a tool, looks like he could body double in the Ant Bully..

  22. #122
    Weight Weenie Shop Owner
    Reputation: DIRT BOY's Avatar
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    Cloxxki, correct. this guy at 16 yrs old was beating men BADLY at triathlons.

    i guesss he oped at 16yrs old. The guy is a freak like we have never seen!

    yes, all those drugs (steriods and what not) from cancer made him even stronger. I say this again, without cancer Lance would have NEVER become the athlete we say today. cancer recovery and treatment made him even stronger along with his will!

    remember, after cancer he came back 20lbs lighter with more muscle and more power than he had pre-cancer. That drug routine made a awesome athlete even greater!!
    DIRT BOY
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  23. #123
    MaLóŒ¢*size=
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    I´d like to hear again all those who defended Lance Armstrong. Where are you now?

  24. #124
    MaLóŒ¢*size=
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    Nino banned for dark business activities... Dirt Boy, tell us something about your dear Lance Armstrong now, come on...

  25. #125
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    Really 6 years dead and you brought it back?

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