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  1. #1
    Max
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    experience with XACD frames/parts?

    after doing some research on the XACD ti products, i've read of people saying their frames and forks cracked, others stating they are just fine or even great, that the forks have been redesigned for better strength etc.

    my main concern is weight and geometry, and longtime experience regarding durability. does anyone here own a XACD Ti MTB frame? does anyone know the top tube lengths for several sizes? and are the rigid forks suspension-geo corrected?

    i wanna build up some decent light Ti rigid bike but dont wanna spend the big ca$h on litespeed and merlin.


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    I only trust Morati...

    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    after doing some research on the XACD ti products, i've read of people saying their frames and forks cracked, others stating they are just fine or even great, that the forks have been redesigned for better strength etc.

    my main concern is weight and geometry, and longtime experience regarding durability. does anyone here own a XACD Ti MTB frame? does anyone know the top tube lengths for several sizes? and are the rigid forks suspension-geo corrected?

    i wanna build up some decent light Ti rigid bike but dont wanna spend the big ca$h on litespeed and merlin.

    None of their forks, frames, stems, handlebars have ever been broken (cranks were a big mistake...), Miguel Martinez, Thomas Frischneckt use them, it's not too expensive ex-factory. I have a slightly used V-brake only fork for sale. I live only a few hundred kms from you...

    I ride a Morati road frame, fork, have M-Bar, Classic, MTB fork. My friend rides a 1.3, another a 1.4, another a softtail... Good stuff, ex-soviet hi-tech, made in a gas cooker factory(!) along side of Boeing jet engine parts in Moravia... This is Eastern Europe!

    (I hope the image loads up!)

    -b
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  3. #3
    Max
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    well, morati is a great company for sure, but i really wanna keep costs down. and XACD seem to be a big company producing for a lot of other manufacturers. and XACD can build custom mfor no extra charge


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    The Morati fork is an ideal for a frame designed for 80 mm forks. A little too long for old frames designed for 63 mm, and makes almost roadbike-like head tube angle in some 2004 frames (eg. Kona Kula). Rides well, if you're a tough guy, you can use it all day... I'm sure you can't get the Chinese fork for 250 euros, and this one will surely last longer even if it has been used for a year. The only problem with titanium is that even if you weld all parts the same, some will be defective due to contamination, so you need to x-ray every weld. The Chinese don't have this technology, hence Boeing doesn't order parts from XACD...

    -b

  5. #5
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    greybicycle.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    well, morati is a great company for sure, but i really wanna keep costs down. and XACD seem to be a big company producing for a lot of other manufacturers. and XACD can build custom mfor no extra charge
    hey Max,
    send Didier from greybicycle.com a mail. he has some VERY nice Ti bikes and parts. he's in Switzerland and i saw/rode those bikes...one word: awesome!
    tell him Nino sent you, that also should help

  6. #6
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    nothing like someone asking about XACD...

    and the moron club responds about someone else instead.

    Spicer Cycles has their Ti forks (which folks love) made by XACD and Aerolite in canada has their stuff (frames, forks, stems, posts) made by XACD also.

    Also if you search the archives of the old forum format, you'll find lots of threads regarding XACD and an mtbr member who used to flog their products heavily and had crappy customer service named Timinwisconsin.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  7. #7
    Max
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    thanks everyone for the input. i know there a lot of Ti companies out there, but i guess when it comes down to price and cost, nothing even comes close to XACD: around 300 for a hardtail frame!
    i dont wanna build it up as my No.1 WW-racer, rather as a cool everyday bike that wont be affected by salt and corrosion, maybe use it for some easy XC races, paired with the extra BLING-BLING factor

    the guy from XACD told me they used to make airborne frames, and they look sweeeet indeed (that rhymes, hah!)

    i know didier from the board, but like morati and other companies - while their products surely are pieces of skilled and uniue craftsmenship - he probably won't meet my tight budget.

    here's the airborne black widow


    loos really nice and should make for some extra comfort, but is claimed 1710 g in my size


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  8. #8
    Max
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    here's another airborne, the regular one which should also be available at XACD, and 1530 g according to airborne


    XACD's versions of these frames look the same BTW


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  9. #9
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    I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the Airbourne frames were using "seamed" tubes for there frames. Instead of seamless (Merlin, Litespeed etc.). XACD... a lesser quality perhaps, but affordable. If you go for it, let us know how it works out.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    after doing some research on the XACD ti products, i've read of people saying their frames and forks cracked, others stating they are just fine or even great, that the forks have been redesigned for better strength etc.
    But that holds true for about every make and product. Tilon had problems with their forks (I believe Spicer had several broken) but they corrected that. I have not heard of a Tilon frame breaking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    my main concern is weight and geometry, and longtime experience regarding durability. does anyone here own a XACD Ti MTB frame? does anyone know the top tube lengths for several sizes? and are the rigid forks suspension-geo corrected?

    i wanna build up some decent light Ti rigid bike but dont wanna spend the big ca$h on litespeed and merlin.
    I have a XACD (Xi'An Chang Da) Tilon Ti frame, custom made.I told them (through Hilset) what I wanted and they made it.
    You can find the standard frame sizes on Hilset. That's where I ordered mine.
    And by the way, they are not exactly cheap, at least not the custom ones

    Some pics of my Tilon frame can be found here
    Last edited by Big Bad Wolf; 01-19-2005 at 01:01 PM.
    Titanium or Bust !

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    thanks everyone for the input. i know there a lot of Ti companies out there, but i guess when it comes down to price and cost, nothing even comes close to XACD: around ? 300 for a hardtail frame!
    i dont wanna build it up as my No.1 WW-racer, rather as a cool everyday bike that wont be affected by salt and corrosion, maybe use it for some easy XC races, paired with the extra BLING-BLING factor

    the guy from XACD told me they used to make airborne frames, and they look sweeeet indeed (that rhymes, hah!)

    i know didier from the board, but like morati and other companies - while their products surely are pieces of skilled and uniue craftsmenship - he probably won't meet my tight budget.

    here's the airborne black widow


    loos really nice and should make for some extra comfort, but is claimed 1710 g in my size
    As long as I can remember Airbornes are made HERE
    Compare the frame below with an Airborne one..I rest my case
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    Last edited by Big Bad Wolf; 01-19-2005 at 12:59 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    here's another airborne, the regular one which should also be available at XACD, and 1530 g according to airborne


    XACD's versions of these frames look the same BTW
    You are wrong Max, Tilon has nothing whatsoever to do with Airborne or their frames.
    Titanium or Bust !

  13. #13
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    thanks for the moron...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    and the moron club responds about someone else instead.

    Spicer Cycles has their Ti forks (which folks love) made by XACD and Aerolite in canada has their stuff (frames, forks, stems, posts) made by XACD also.

    Also if you search the archives of the old forum format, you'll find lots of threads regarding XACD and an mtbr member who used to flog their products heavily and had crappy customer service named Timinwisconsin.
    do you have a problem ?
    he asks about a cheapo Ti-manufacturer and i tell him another source which is just a couple of hours away from his home, that's all. and i'm sure he gets a better bike from Didier than from over there...if they are indeed more expensive has to be seen. i'd say let Max decide if that's a good idea or not, ok?
    have a nice day!

  14. #14
    Max
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    these hi-light frames look even nicer! has anyone ever tried to polish a ti frame? is that sth you can do on your own? or is it rather exhausting and time-consuming?


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    The moron club takes the argument further... If an American rider writes that its great to own an American product, why shouldn't I, Nino or possibly Max be proud to own one made a few hudred kms from his home instead of 10.000? If one can say that a Yeti is a Yeti, I can also say that these parts are really much better than the far eastern mass produced alternative...

    I visit a lot of bicycle trade shows, and always noted that year after year Airborne has once again stole one of its competitors idea. XACD, and the other manufacturer that produces Airborne stuff just makes whatever they get in AutoCAD. There is no R&D dept. there. Their products are nice, but its nothing to be bragging about...

    Polishing titanium: yes I tried it with a stem and results were ok. The only problem is that it's a nightmere to keep it looking nice. Sandblasted titanium is much better in this respect. I wash my road bike once a year...

    -moron#1

  16. #16
    Max
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    ok, i think i've made my decision: XACD frame "VooDoo" (allegedly they also made the voodoo frames ) with the following geometry

    18.5"
    393(c-c)
    469 (c-t)
    71° steerer angle
    73° seat angle
    559 measured TT
    584 effective TT
    425 seastays
    1058 wheelbase
    32 BB drop
    120 steerer tube length
    38 fork rake
    81 brake boss distance
    364 Dropout to bottom of Bridge Tube
    250 Dropout to Brake Boss

    all measurements in mm

    this is very similiar to my present XC race HT (585 mm TT, 1060 wheelbase, 71°/73,5°, 420 mm stays)

    looking forward to ordering it, though it might still take some time and money saving


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  17. #17
    Max
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    Quote Originally Posted by macsi
    Polishing titanium: yes I tried it with a stem and results were ok. The only problem is that it's a nightmere to keep it looking nice. Sandblasted titanium is much better in this respect. I wash my road bike once a year...
    what were the problems? i thought THE big advantage of Ti is that it doesnt corrode, i.e. wouldnt become dull (like aluminium)


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  18. #18
    Max
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    BTW: do you think wishbone seatstays are lighter than conventional ones? maybe not as there arent that many companies using them on their bikes. a friend of mine has a 10 year old rocky (maybe older!) and is still racing it from time to time. his frame has beautiful wishbone stays.....


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by macsi
    The moron club takes the argument further... If an American rider writes that its great to own an American product, why shouldn't I, Nino or possibly Max be proud to own one made a few hudred kms from his home instead of 10.000? If one can say that a Yeti is a Yeti, I can also say that these parts are really much better than the far eastern mass produced alternative...

    I visit a lot of bicycle trade shows, and always noted that year after year Airborne has once again stole one of its competitors idea. XACD, and the other manufacturer that produces Airborne stuff just makes whatever they get in AutoCAD. There is no R&D dept. there. Their products are nice, but its nothing to be bragging about...

    Polishing titanium: yes I tried it with a stem and results were ok. The only problem is that it's a nightmere to keep it looking nice. Sandblasted titanium is much better in this respect. I wash my road bike once a year...

    -moron#1
    The Chinese and Taiwanese are great in assimilating and adapting other peoples ideas, and who can blame them.

    Bottom line is, Ok , the welds and overall finish are not as good as those on my Moots or Litespeed, and there is no internal butting and it seems a bit archaic , but what the heck, the frame looks nice , will probably ride just as good as the others mentioned, especially if you order custom where you can specify what type, tube size and Ti alloy to use. I also have a personal logo on the head tube and chose another type of dropout and s-bended downtubes..

    And this at a fraction of the price (although the custom Tilon I have is priced around 1200 Euros - 1600 USD ) of an US-made custom Ti frame . The Tilon is even lighter than my Litespeed
    As a second or third bike, I feel you cannot go wrong choosing for Tilon.


    ps : Max , normally the Tilon frames are sandblasted, but at a small price they can polish them for you... some manufacturers re-finish your frame at your expense if it gets badly scatched (Moots does this) although Ti wears very hard.. but it does happen
    Last edited by Big Bad Wolf; 01-20-2005 at 12:08 AM.
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    Titanium doesn't corrode or oxidize, but even a small amount of grease dulls the polished finish. I wouldn't choose anything but sandblasting for the finish. As Big Bad Wolf said: titanium has very high surface hardness, which means that I don't use a chainstay protector for my road bike and all the chain did during 3 years of intensive use was to polish the surface somewhat. The 6Al/4V alloy used for the dropouts is so hard, that even tool hardened steel cannot make a mark in it - maybe only with a hammer, which I haven't tried...

    I use to have a Russian made titanium MTB frame (Cascade) 4 years ago, which broke after a half a season. I cut the tubes to make seatposts, hubs, stems from them. I distroyed a lot of quality sawblades doing this and the laithe mechanic at the workshop also complained that his tools saw some damage during the fine cutting/machining process...

    -b (or moron)

  21. #21
    Max
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    ok, so i got another email with several frame options:

    - wishbone seatstays +$35 originally i wanted those, but i'm not sure if it's worth the money. are wishbone seatstays lighter or do they offer any other advantage?
    - double butted tubes +$80 i think i might go for these to save some extra weight. maybe that will also increase frame life and strength
    -brushed finish +$45 ok, that's purely optical, but what would you recommend? brushed finish or dull finish?


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    Dull, sandblasted for the reasons I gave above.

    Concerning the two other options: Morati introduced wishbone stays on the new 1.4 and they paired it with a specially shaped top tube to provide even more vertical flex. The guy who uses it had a 1.3 before and feels a lot of difference in lateral stiffness and vertical complience. The only problem is that it's more expensive and traps mud...

    Double butted tubes make sense, but in the case of Chinese frames it means the tubes are not seamless but welded from a sheet of titanium. This creates a lot of problems. Any bending on titanium must be done in a pressure chamber at a certain temperature. It is not possible to do this with the technology the Chinese have. They simply cold work the tubes. Then they cannot check the quality of the welds with chromatic inspection, though they have 5 meters of weld on the frame... I don't know if it is a good idea to ask for an elaborate manufacturing process from a company which is clearly not capable of providing it. Even Morati cannot make a double butted frame, since they cannot guarantee that the frame would be perfect and never break. Working with titanium is not so easy...I would stick with straight gauge tubing for safety, or if you really want low weight and a modest price, just forget buying a ti frame... There are a lot of good light frames on the market made from other materials :-)

    -b

  23. #23
    Max
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    according to XACD, (at least) their double butted tubes are seamless

    here are some pics from XACD frames, the first one is from another MTBR member (Lanpope, thx!). i think i might go for a sandblasted finish, but double butted tubes, which should save 150 g

    i will also choose conventional seatstays as these are slightly lighter than monostay solutions. i'll spring for disc tabs as well, but without the disc cable routing, which should make for clean looks while keeping the possibility to upgrade to disc once i get bored by Vees
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  24. #24
    Max
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    here'S a brushed XACD frame with the optional break-away option
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  25. #25
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    Two pics takes in Austria...
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  26. #26
    Max
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    sweet! really sweet! where did you go?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    sweet! really sweet! where did you go?
    This is the top of the pic that I cropped for you. Rode and carried it all way to the top to do the 1300 m alt. descent along the cog wheel train route to the bottom... 60-70 km/h!

    -b
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  28. #28
    nightriding is fun !
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    Macsi, people always say i'm crazy because I use a non-suspension bike in the hills.. but I see I'm not alone
    Morati makes very nice stuf.. I have one of their handlebars since 1999...not even a scritch on it. As you say, titanium is a ***** to cut or work on , cutting that Morati bar to the desired lenght cost me a sawblade
    Titanium or Bust !

  29. #29
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    The XACD frames are already lighter than I feel comfortable with. I'd use double butting to thicken the tubes at the welds, and get something stronger and stiffer. Good place to add 150g to a frame IMO.
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  30. #30
    Max
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    sorry, didnt quite get it... the double butted tubes SAVE 150 g, instead of adding them. on the other hand you said you'd "use double butting to thicken the tubes at the welds".
    so from your point of view i should get the straight gauge tubes?


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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    sorry, didnt quite get it... the double butted tubes SAVE 150 g, instead of adding them. on the other hand you said you'd "use double butting to thicken the tubes at the welds".
    so from your point of view i should get the straight gauge tubes?
    The standard straight gauge tubing Tilon uses is 0.9mm thick. Butting will make the tubes thinner in the middle section. Butting titanium tubes is a very time-consuming and costly process... I wouldn't bother with it, just to save 150g .

    The straight gauge tubing is strong enough, even for Cloxxki I'm sure he will not be able to break it..

    What you can also specify with Tilon is that they don't drill any holes for water bottles etc.. usually this weakens a frame, same as all the braze on's for cable guides etc... but as we all (should) know, a titanium frame is much stronger in that regard than an alu frame
    Titanium or Bust !

  32. #32
    Max
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    .but after all, it's a (claimed) 150 g weight saving for only USD 80. i think we all have spent more bucks on parts that only saved a fraction the the weight. my only concern is that the frame might crack i mean, the straight tube frame weighs in at a mere 1560g, so a DB frame would be around 1410g - almost scary light although i dont really believe XACD's claimed weight savings, i think it's rather 70g... has anyone ever seen/ridden/etc. a DB XACD frame?


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    Max!

    What do want to use your titanium bike for? I believe people have a misconception about Ti equipment. They believe that on the plus side its light and comfortable, on the down side its expensive and flexy. There is little truth in this: maybe the comfort and the price (if not from China...)

    A Ti frame will only last a long time if it's designed and manufactured perfectly from the best materials and this comes at a price. A flexy Ti frame (of fork) is a design mistake. I ride a lot of bikes and frames, and my experience is that the Ti frames I'm familiar with are just as stiff as any 1600-1700 gr aluminium frame. Though in comfort there is a noticeble difference...

    In my opinion a Ti frame, fork or any other part should be ridden to the extremes: if you don't do this, you are wasting your money. For example the picture of the Morati 1.4 above was taken in 2003. It belongs to my friend (we did the tour together) who used to be the national trials champion. For more than two years he has been torturing that bike: he regularly does 1-1.5 m vertical(!) drops with it, 5-6 meter jumps and even entered a dirt jump contest with a riser bar... I also beat the hell out of my Ti fork, stem/bar. He trusts his equipment, I trust mine.

    If you want just light, get scandium of carbon fiber. If you want to do things others think impossible (noone believed us at the top that we made it up the north side of the Schneeberg by bike!), if you don't want to worry when you crash and your bike lands 50 m below you, then get titanium. If built right, it will survive everything... Well, its made from Russian raw material ;-)

    -b

  34. #34
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    I find this whole morati rocks stuff rather silly as Morati is no better in terms of manufacturing experience or equipment than XACD. They're BOTH made in defence plants that make parts for russian-origin fighter aircraft (most of china's airforce is derived from soviet designs). XACD is the actual factory though, while Morati is a brand name slapped on stuff made for them by another factory. So you're arguing which is better, the boutique brand that orders the high quality stuff in small numbers and makes an effort to ensure quality control of stuff they sell to consumers, or the mega factory that'll make the stuff to whatever specs the customer is willing to pay, and are willing to sell to whole brands (airborne) or individual consumers.

    I used to be a Morati dealer.. I know where the stuff is made, and how its made and who's making it, and they're no more/less competent than XACD is. And when Morati was a new brand, couldn't give the stuff away. Nobody trusted them at all. And given how the cranks turned out, one of only three products they offered, can't blame that attitude.
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  35. #35
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    the intended use is XC riding, mainly training but some racing (on smooth courses) as well. i don't do many tours, on most of my rides training time, heart rate and duration of intervals are what matter, not the altitude or kms i did.

    surely, if i wanted just a lightweight rigid bike, i'd look into scandium frames. but i already have a Sc race HT, a triple butted alloy race fully, a carbon road bike and an brutally-stiff alloy CX bike. i think it's time to try Ti.

    a couple of weeks ago i was testing a steel singlespeed HT and kinda loved the comfortable ride (unfortunately i cracked the frame at the rear dropouts, but that might have been the result of the equation prototype + strong disc-brakes + hardcore trail riding + some drops + max beating the $#!t out of the bike ).

    as my bike won't be a superlight build, maybe i should just get the straight gauge frame and enjoy the ride....


    BTW: Macsi, if you should ever come to vienna, drop me an email and we might just hit the local trails if you like!


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    I usually spend 2-3 weeks in the Wienerwald every year. Last year it was around Laaben, Schpfl, Anninger, Fadental, etc. The year before that the Schneeberg, Semmering, etc We also go once.twice a year to the Saltzburg region: Hinterglemm (WGMB!), Kaprun, Zell am Zee... For some places I don't even need a map anymore... ;-)

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    I find this whole morati rocks stuff rather silly as Morati is no better in terms of manufacturing experience or equipment than XACD. They're BOTH made in defence plants that make parts for russian-origin fighter aircraft (most of china's airforce is derived from soviet designs). XACD is the actual factory though, while Morati is a brand name slapped on stuff made for them by another factory. So you're arguing which is better, the boutique brand that orders the high quality stuff in small numbers and makes an effort to ensure quality control of stuff they sell to consumers, or the mega factory that'll make the stuff to whatever specs the customer is willing to pay, and are willing to sell to whole brands (airborne) or individual consumers.

    I used to be a Morati dealer.. I know where the stuff is made, and how its made and who's making it, and they're no more/less competent than XACD is. And when Morati was a new brand, couldn't give the stuff away. Nobody trusted them at all. And given how the cranks turned out, one of only three products they offered, can't blame that attitude.
    I think you don't know what you're talking about, so I won't argue... Just for the record: all Morati equipment is made in the Mora factory in Moravia.

    -b

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    the intended use is XC riding, mainly training but some racing (on smooth courses) as well. i don't do many tours, on most of my rides training time, heart rate and duration of intervals are what matter, not the altitude or kms i did.

    as my bike won't be a superlight build, maybe i should just get the straight gauge frame and enjoy the ride....
    Max, I think you will enjoy the bikes made by Tilon/XACD, don't worry.
    Have it made to your specifications, butted or not, brushed or polished, disc brake tabs or not, engrave your name in it, etc.. etc..
    Make sure that when you order, you get a confirmation drawing from them, they do this,check out if all the measurements are correct and everything.

    The drawing should look something like this.. (if you want a hi-res drawing of mine, let me know)

    Titanium or Bust !

  39. #39
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    i think the drawing is a bit of an overkill for me. i'll pick the standard voodoo 18,5" frame with a slightly shorter head tube (110 mm instead of 120 mm). the TT length, the wheelbase, the angles, everything is almost like on my race HT!

    here's the size chart (that's the model they produced for VooDoo cycles - do they still exist????)
    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    i think the drawing is a bit of an overkill for me. i'll pick the standard voodoo 18,5" frame with a slightly shorter head tube (110 mm instead of 120 mm). the TT length, the wheelbase, the angles, everything is almost like on my race HT!

    here's the size chart (that's the model they produced for VooDoo cycles - do they still exist????)
    Mine is also around the 18.5 incher on your list , give or take .5 a cm here and there , I have a 112mm head tube and I also specced the top tube to be the same diameter (38.1 mm) as the down tube, to make the headset area extra stiff. You can see this on the pic I attached, they had to ovalize the top tube near the seatpost to connect it to the seatpost tubes..
    I'm 1m79 last time I checked . I just took the measurements of my favorite bike and had them make a carbon, (euhm titanium) copy of that, adding a few custom thingies along the way.
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    Titanium or Bust !

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    hmmm the welds arent the nicest looking ones i've seen so far, but ok for that price... maybe they can sand them down a bit/smoothen them. why didnt you choose some special machined seat stays like in the pic shown below? do you think they are heavier? i really wanna give my bike a unique look.

    is your frame double butted? if not, how comes yours is so much lighter than the sample from hilset.be (1780g)?


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  42. #42
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    hmmm the welds arent the nicest looking ones i've seen so far, but ok for that price... maybe they can sand them down a bit/smoothen them. why didnt you choose some special machined seat stays like in the pic shown below? do you think they are heavier? i really wanna give my bike a unique look.

    is your frame double butted? if not, how comes yours is so much lighter than the sample from hilset.be (1780g)?



    Skinny guys fight 'til they're burger

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    hmmm the welds arent the nicest looking ones i've seen so far, but ok for that price... maybe they can sand them down a bit/smoothen them. why didnt you choose some special machined seat stays like in the pic shown below? do you think they are heavier? i really wanna give my bike a unique look.

    is your frame double butted? if not, how comes yours is so much lighter than the sample from hilset.be (1780g)?
    I have a Moots and a Litespeed as well , so I DO know what fantastic welds look like..
    The ones on the Tilon are good, evenly applied , but not great.
    But then the price is about 1/3th that of a Moots... you figure it out

    No, my frame is straight gauge. the 1780 g is the weight of a standard 19.5 incher weighed more than a year ago when Hilset got his first frames .
    Since then the weights of the frames he got delivered have gone down.
    Mine is a custom frame and weighs 1548g (1570 with titanium brake studs - see pics on my fotopic site) , in size it's between 18 and 18.5 inch. I also chose the dropouts as seen on the softstay frame. I wanted plain tubes in the back triangle , so no specially machined stuff.
    Titanium or Bust !

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by macsi
    I think you don't know what you're talking about, so I won't argue... Just for the record: all Morati equipment is made in the Mora factory in Moravia.

    -b
    yes I know what I'm talking about, apparently you don't though.

    I have my dealer kit from 1997 right here in front of me, what do you have? Mora Moravia (which is the name of the company btw, Morati is just the brand name for the bicycle stuff), is in the Czech republic, which was part of the warsaw pact alliance of nations, and thus under the sphere of influence of the USSR and its aviation division (which makes the bike stuff) for the most part, turned out licensed versions of soviet engines, or made parts for those designs. That (and cooking appliances) are the recent manufacturing areas of the company for the past couple decades prior to getting into doing bicycle parts/frames in 1995.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    i think the drawing is a bit of an overkill for me. i'll pick the standard voodoo 18,5" frame with a slightly shorter head tube (110 mm instead of 120 mm). the TT length, the wheelbase, the angles, everything is almost like on my race HT!

    here's the size chart (that's the model they produced for VooDoo cycles - do they still exist????)
    I know this is off topic, but
    Would you consider covering TI in paint instead of leaving it naked?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    yes I know what I'm talking about, apparently you don't though.

    I have my dealer kit from 1997 right here in front of me, what do you have? Mora Moravia (which is the name of the company btw, Morati is just the brand name for the bicycle stuff), is in the Czech republic, which was part of the warsaw pact alliance of nations, and thus under the sphere of influence of the USSR and its aviation division (which makes the bike stuff) for the most part, turned out licensed versions of soviet engines, or made parts for those designs. That (and cooking appliances) are the recent manufacturing areas of the company for the past couple decades prior to getting into doing bicycle parts/frames in 1995.
    This is almost ok, but you wrote that they import frames made elsewhere which is surely false... I visited the factory (bike division) six times, tested pre-production frames... I think I have more info than a dealer who imported stuff from them 8 years ago. I know why they went in the bike biz in 1992. Actually cooking appliences have been manufactured there for ages: my mother used to have a gas cooker which had the label "Mora - Olomuc, Czechslovakia". I don't understand why you think noone can have more knowledge than you...

    -b

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by macsi
    This is almost ok, but you wrote that they import frames made elsewhere which is surely false... I visited the factory (bike division) six times, tested pre-production frames... I think I have more info than a dealer who imported stuff from them 8 years ago. I know why they went in the bike biz in 1992. Actually cooking appliences have been manufactured there for ages: my mother used to have a gas cooker which had the label "Mora - Olomuc, Czechslovakia". I don't understand why you think noone can have more knowledge than you...

    -b
    Don't put words in my mouth unless you can back it up.

    Where did I write that they import frames ?! I said Morati is the brand name slapped on frames made by another factory, and that's accurate. There is NO bicycle exclusive division to Mora Moravia. Its products are made by the Mora Aero divsion under contract. There's no rule that says other factories for a brand have to be in another country to be imported from. Being across the region/city works just as well.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

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    I must have misunderstood you too DeeEight but that was also the impression I got from your long post (that Morati did not make their own frames)
    You said :
    XACD is the actual factory though, while Morati is a brand name slapped on stuff made for them by another factory
    It is perhaps more accurrate to state that Morati is a subdivision from a bigger company..

    It's not like Airborne (who has their frames made by hanglun NOT by XACD!) and a multitude of other European and US brands.. Ti Sports Tech is another company that makes frames for a lot of brands..

    for the mere mortals among us, Specialized alu (bweek) frames are made in taiwan..

    in either case, it does not really matter who makes the frames, as long as they are good, wouldn't you agree
    Titanium or Bust !

  49. #49
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    Mora Aerospace (not Mora Aero!) does have a bicycle division! They design and market bicycle components. The parts are made by the employees of Mora Aerospace, who also make titanium parts for jet engines. On the same machines with the same skilled workers. The quality control tests done on the Morati parts are the same as reqired by Honeywell (Boeing). This makes the difference -IMHO...

    Someone wanted to see some welds...
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    Last edited by macsi; 01-21-2005 at 03:25 AM.

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    Upset

    Quote Originally Posted by b12yan88
    I know this is off topic, but
    Would you consider covering TI in paint instead of leaving it naked?
    For me personally, never in a million years !

    part of the charm Ti has for me , is it's unique colour.

    Ti does not corrode (well it does but nothing to worry about) so no protection is needed.

    Plus painting a frame adds 60-100g !
    Titanium or Bust !

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