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  1. #1
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    Eclipse - Innertube: 56g !!!!

    Ok-here we go:
    i was telling you about those secret prototypes i was using since about past september. Now i am allowed to tell you some details. These tubes still aren't into production and what i show here is still a prototype although already very close to what the public will get later. it's only some minor details that get changed but the main features like weight and performance will remain untouched.

    Eclipse Tube: 26" x 1,8 -2,3 = 56g !!

    No this weight doesn't come along with all the usual weaknesses you would expect out of a lightweight inner tube. We all know how prone ultralight innertubes are. Tubes like Conti Supersonic or Maxxis Flyweight (both about 90-95g) suffer big time offroads. These inner tubes however have almost half the weight and in-house tests showed that the resistance to pinchflats is 30 times higher than regular butyl tubes. Also A LOT,lot better than any latex tube out there...

    I also reported about how many flats i got using Conti Supersonic tubes inside my Conti Race King Supersonic 2,2 tires. I got a flat almost every second ride!! I had 8 patches on the tubes before i changed them with these prototypes. Now i have done at least 1500km with these tubes and still haven't got a flat. I use them with the exact same Conti tires at the same pressure on the same trails...I don't even use the Eclipse sealant which is suggested to use. Since i am tester No.1 i am trying to get the best out of them without any sealant so i can really see how good they hold up. So far there hasn't been a single flat. Tire changes are a breeze. They mount as easy as any regular innertube. No fuss, no sealant, no compressor needed...just install and go.

    The inner tube is so thin it also offers the same ride quality than the tubelesskits do. There is a huge difference in the ride between regular tubes and these tubes! They really offer a much suppler ride and they definitely roll a lot faster too...it's like all the benefits of tubelesskits in a inner tube.

    I know that you guy out there will have a hard time to belive me but in about 2 months they should be available to the masses and rest assured they will have a huge impact on the cycling scene!

    Planned are 29"er tubes (i expect those to weigh about 60g), roadbike (i expect about 25-30g) and also Freeride/DH which shouldn't be much more than 65g.

    I will post better pics as soon as i get the pre-series tubes which i should get in the next couple of days.
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  2. #2
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    The weight alone is pretty incredible, the other benefits sound great too. Have you heard anything about what kind of pricing these will carry? Will these be available in the US, or through European outlets only? I'm looking forward to hearing more on these, as they sound like a major break-through, if they hold up to your mini review.

  3. #3
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    Presta only? or are schraeders available too?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetta_mike
    Presta only? or are schraeders available too?
    Presta only. you can use an adapter if you want the "big" valve.

  5. #5
    Hack Racer
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    how long are the valves for the various tube variants?

  6. #6
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    As someone who's not very excited to go tubeless, these look great!

  7. #7
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    This is great news. I am still trying to get my new Race Kings completely sealed.

    Thanks!

  8. #8
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    Valve lenght...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    how long are the valves for the various tube variants?
    what you see is the valve lenght for all tubes. that's standard valve lenght.no different than on any other inner tube!

  9. #9
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    Nino,
    What kind of pressures were you running these at? You mentioned at one point running over curbs trying to pinch flat them. Any idea on goathead thorn resistance? or would that be where the added sealant is recommended?
    TIA

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    Presta only. you can use an adapter if you want the "big" valve.
    I am assuming these are removable presta valve cores if the option to add sealant is available, correct?

    BB

  11. #11
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    Awesome - if the price on these is remotely reasonable, this could be a revolution in the $/gram department for weight weenies who use tubes

  12. #12
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    If they're that puncture proof, even if they cost 4x what the Conti Supersonics do it would still be a bargain.
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  13. #13
    El Toro
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    and... what is the material is manufactured of?? I don't see it...

  14. #14
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    awesome!!!

    No more liquid yuck needed.
    3po armorless, the first weight weenie.

  15. #15
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    And is there a ribbed version for more tire pleasure?
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  16. #16
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    Looks great...
    What is bes for you: no tubes or this new tube (for the same tire, pressure without taking in account the mounting of no tubes)

    Do they loss air like a latex tube?

    What about price?

  17. #17
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    These look awesome Nino. Question ; doesn't it seem unusual that this product is planned to be made available for purchase in 2 months, when currently there's only 1 "beta" tester? I guess for me whether I want to be an early adopter based on limited field use (much as I respect your own personal testing) will be very dependent on price. The higher the price, the more likely I will be to let other people shake these down for a couple of months and then watch for feedback and experience from these early adopters.

    Also, just for curiousity, are you able to tell us what your relationship with this product is? In the past it's been unclear at times what is or is not "your" product i.e. are you an investor or somehow officially involved in another capacity? Not that this would keeep me from buying a good product at a reasonable price. It just helps to know where you are coming from.

    Is the product going to be available through standard distribution channnels (e.g. local bike store, etc.) or be a more of an eBay/specialty type of distribution?

  18. #18
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    Eclipse is a tubeless kit manufacturer in Switzerland. They appear to make the tubeless conversion kits for DT Swiss and Scott. These will likely be a mainstream LBS product as they become available.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  19. #19
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    Certainly interresting.

    They would be the exact same weight as my tubeless setup - Yellow tape and valve + Sealant is 55grams for me. But then again they wouldn't seal any puntures etc.

  20. #20
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    Polyurethane ??? (loss air)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    when currently there's only 1 "beta" tester?
    I would think there is a difference between "#1" and "only one"...

    Interesting. Are they designed to be used with sealant?

    I like how sealant helps with thorns around here, but I do not like to deal with mess. I was thinking about experimenting with getting some narrow, light tubes (like for 1" 26" tires) and adding some sealant inside, for still less weight, but more puncture resistance, but never got around experimenting. You can buy Slime tubes, but I found that they do not work as good as Stan's.

    I would think that a drawback will be that once sealant dries out (depends on permeability of the material how soon that happens) you would need to throw the tube out. Can not scrub and refill.

    Looking forward to try those out. I was always surprised nobody tried many new materials for MTB innertubes. Tons of interesting stuff out there, and many folks will pay a premium.

  22. #22
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    I'd like to know how well patches work on them, for the unexpected punctures.

    Also, will the 26" version stretch comfortably around a 29" rim? That would save me time waiting for the 29" version, I run 26" all the time anyway.
    I hope they'll offer a good gram price, I'll probably step in for all of my stable then :-)
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    These look awesome Nino. Question ; doesn't it seem unusual that this product is planned to be made available for purchase in 2 months, when currently there's only 1 "beta" tester? I guess for me whether I want to be an early adopter based on limited field use (much as I respect your own personal testing) will be very dependent on price. The higher the price, the more likely I will be to let other people shake these down for a couple of months and then watch for feedback and experience from these early adopters.

    Also, just for curiousity, are you able to tell us what your relationship with this product is? In the past it's been unclear at times what is or is not "your" product i.e. are you an investor or somehow officially involved in another capacity? Not that this would keeep me from buying a good product at a reasonable price. It just helps to know where you are coming from.

    Is the product going to be available through standard distribution channnels (e.g. local bike store, etc.) or be a more of an eBay/specialty type of distribution?
    Rest assured i'm not the only tester! BUT i am very close (best friend) to the main man behind Eclipse...and i am the one getting the news first. However i have nothing to do with Eclipse and this is not my product at all. I am however involved in the development stages...Besides many other local racers Eclipse has one of the worlds BEST XC-rider as their tester and you will most likely will see him use this product in the future....he became worldchampion using the Eclipse tubelesskit before and is now at the forefront again.

    It will once again take some time to get people convinced. We had the same happen with the tubelesskits before where only slowly and over the years the advantages got known and accepted.

    Yes- it will be available through distributors worldwide.

    answers to some questions above:
    -no air loss! These tubes keep the air thight for a long time.

    -the valve is removable just like you have it on tubelesskits too to be able to add some sealant

    -for the eventual pucture you have the sealant which should be able to take care of that.the tube comes with Eclipse-sealant so it's your choice if you run them with sealant right away or if you add it in case of a puncture. I haven't used any sealant so far...and never had a puncture until now.

    -i am using them inside my Conti RaceKing 2,2" at 1.9-2,0 bar pressure (ca. 28 psi)

  24. #24
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    Looks like the tubes they had on display at Interbike '07. I'll have to dig up the pics.
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  25. #25
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    Looking forward to the road bike tubes.....any ETA on those?

  26. #26
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    Nino, PM me when these are ready for market. I will buy a case!
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Eclipse is a tubeless kit manufacturer in Switzerland. They appear to make the tubeless conversion kits for DT Swiss and Scott. These will likely be a mainstream LBS product as they become available.
    Yes, I know the history. I bought an Eclipse kit directly from Nino in 2003 way before it was licensed to DT as Eclipse's first corporate customer, and also before Stan's had commercial kits.

    I always appreciate the information from Nino as he truly does have some great connections and dedication to spreading the word about very cool parts. At the same time, when someone is introducing the latest and greatest and asking his observations and experiences to be treated with some validity, I believe it's also important to understand any relationship between the person and the product/company. While Nino is stating that he has nothing to do with Eclipse, many of his early posts on the topic several years ago had a distinct "we" tone that seemed to include him when talking about the company. With the cassette products Nino has frequently showed, and the I-Link housing systems, it's also been unclear at times who the product is actually being developed and marketed by, whether that's Nino or someone else.

    I'm very excited about the potential of these tubes, along with everyone else. It seems that it has always been held as an assumption that people wouldn't pay several times the cost (???) of a standard tube for a design in a newer material with huge advantages, and so no R&D was done in this area. Hopefully this will prove that assumption wrong.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmix
    Polyurethane ??? (loss air)

    By the way - anybody is using those Panaracer green polyurethane tubes? How do they hold up?

  29. #29
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    Hmmm.... guess I could live with a 20.66 lb FS bike instead of a 20.83 lb one....

    Especially seeing how I've had great luck with the Maxxis tubes. If these are that much better overall I'll be pleased though. I'll certainly grab 3 or 4 of them myself right away.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    By the way - anybody is using those Panaracer green polyurethane tubes? How do they hold up?

    I used them for years and never had any problems with them that I didn't have with regular tubes. They held up just fine. I'm running tubeless now though. I don't know if I'll consider these new tubes or not. With the Stan's rims I'm using now (Olympic rear, Race7000 front) I'm running 25/23 psi with the Race King 2.2s, and I love the traction. I don't know if I could go that low without worrying about pinch flats using the Eclipse tubes.

  31. #31
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    hurry up with the 29er version please.
    Out riding, leave a message

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Yes, I know the history. I bought an Eclipse kit directly from Nino in 2003 way before it was licensed to DT as Eclipse's first corporate customer, and also before Stan's had commercial kits.

    I always appreciate the information from Nino as he truly does have some great connections and dedication to spreading the word about very cool parts. At the same time, when someone is introducing the latest and greatest and asking his observations and experiences to be treated with some validity, I believe it's also important to understand any relationship between the person and the product/company. While Nino is stating that he has nothing to do with Eclipse, many of his early posts on the topic several years ago had a distinct "we" tone that seemed to include him when talking about the company. With the cassette products Nino has frequently showed, and the I-Link housing systems, it's also been unclear at times who the product is actually being developed and marketed by, whether that's Nino or someone else.

    I'm very excited about the potential of these tubes, along with everyone else. It seems that it has always been held as an assumption that people wouldn't pay several times the cost (???) of a standard tube for a design in a newer material with huge advantages, and so no R&D was done in this area. Hopefully this will prove that assumption wrong.
    I am no employe of Eclipse but since the main man at Eclipse is my best friend i am very close to what happens there. We both share our passion with bikes and it's only logical that things get discussed over and over together although i am not an employee. Therefore i can't tell you in all details what it's all about with this tube since i know only "the main line".

    The cassettes on the other hand is MY thing! I am the weight-weenie and it is me looking for ways to get light parts for bikes. It seems i have a good hand in finding/selecting parts and often i am offering them as one of the first worldwide. This however has nothing to do with Eclipse and is also not what i do for a living. I am a sculptor and a very passionate cyclist with interest in lightweight parts. It just happened i got into this over the years.

    The inner tube is now something that is VERY light and it gets made by my friend so sure i am excited about it. I had the opportunity to use them and they do perform even better than what we had expected. When i am so excited it is the weight-weenie inside me that is all happy because this inner tube is really offering great weight savings and makes life so much easier. I still can't see how this tube can be made in masses as by now every single tube is hand made and it takes quite some time to do so...so i am really interested how things get started and how he manages to get masses made. That's where i have no idea ....but the tubes perform great and that's what counts for now.

  33. #33
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    If they can make a "DH" tube that will stand up to that kind of abuse for 65gr, that would be unbelievable.

  34. #34
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    Is there an Eclipse website?

  35. #35
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    I currently run Forte Lunar Lite tubes @ 86g each. This is going to be a huge weight savings.


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    By the way - anybody is using those Panaracer green polyurethane tubes? How do they hold up?
    They actually work OK. I've gotten 2 flats on them during the later half of last season, both were super small pin pricks that I didn't even notice until the next day. They are easily fixable with Park glueless patches which I can't say for Michelin latex which I usually use.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    By the way - anybody is using those Panaracer green polyurethane tubes? How do they hold up?
    I've used them. I had one tube last for over a year, maybe two years. i had another one go flat at the end of a race. The Conti Supersonic tubes I tried were terrible.
    I would try these but not if they cost three times as much as a regular tube.

  38. #38
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    well...

    Quote Originally Posted by limba
    I've used them. I had one tube last for over a year, maybe two years. i had another one go flat at the end of a race. The Conti Supersonic tubes I tried were terrible.
    I would try these but not if they cost three times as much as a regular tube.
    ...buying 3 tubes because you got flats isn't any cheaper and it is heavier and slower all the time!

    It's that common thinking that ultralight tubes equals weak tubes and many flats...this is wrong here! this tube is way superior in every aspect.

    I'd say most guys in this forum also buy the lighter, foldable version of a tire which costs 3 times as much as the heavier wire-version, right? that's because the performance is definitely< better while the tire is also lighter at the same time. But since this is a well known fact people just accept the steeper price tag.

    Same here - as soon as people will see the real benefits i'm sure they will be willing to accept its higher price. Time will tell. I know it sounds weird and unreal that such a light tube is actually better but this is how things are.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell
    Looks like the tubes they had on display at Interbike '07. I'll have to dig up the pics.
    Correction: It was actually at the '08 Cycle Show in Taipei where I saw something similar. They performed a demonstration that showed punctures leaked very slowly as long as the object was still in the tire/tube. They also showed that by using a lighter it was possible to soften/melt the material at the site of the puncture, one could then pinch the material together and effectively repair the tube. No patch needed- just a lighter.

    Nino, is this possibly the same product? Perhaps Eclipse bought the patent?



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  40. #40
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    Is the valve aluminium?

  41. #41
    FIRENZE rulez !!
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    looks like ... a rim flap... not a tube ....

    but the weight is so incredible

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell
    Nino, is this possibly the same product? Perhaps Eclipse bought the patent?
    NO - that's not the same and has nothing to do with the Eclipse tube.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by diziq
    Is the valve aluminium?
    yes - the valve is aluminium.

  44. #44
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    what kind of material are the eclipse tubes made of?

  45. #45
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    Material...

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio_pt
    what kind of material are the eclipse tubes made of?
    some kind of rubber
    sorry - more details when it's available.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    NO - that's not the same and has nothing to do with the Eclipse tube.
    Well, it is some new transparent plastic, and they are somewhat puncture resistant. Glad to see that Eclipse are not the only ones trying to innovate a bit. (I would bet on Taiwan companies being able to bring it into mass production if it works)

    About time. I want light, puncture resistant tubes and no more sealant mess and maintenance. If they last for a long time I would not mind paying a good fraction of a new tire cost for a tube.

  47. #47
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    would love to put these (700c version) in my cyclocross tubulars, maybe they'll be available for next season.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    some kind of rubber
    sorry - more details when it's available.
    Kinda out of subject but Nino could you please get contact me back. I've sent you emails and PMs last week and haven't heard from you since. Thanks

  49. #49
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    I'm sick of the teasing. Just let us know when/where we can buy them, and we'll review!

    Also do these require talc-ing
    B

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTM
    would love to put these (700c version) in my cyclocross tubulars, maybe they'll be available for next season.
    I imagine that would be quite difficult, no? Unless you're running "open tubulars" on clincher rims.
    A hardtail is forever

  51. #51
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    Not really, you would put the new tube in just like when you replace a flatted latex tube: Remove base tape, unsew tubular, remove latex tube, install new tube, re-sew, glue down base tape. I've done it, although lately I pay a guy in Florida to do it for me for $20.

    If available in time, I'd just have mine made with the new innertubes to begin with, can't see why Dugast and FMB wouldn't oblige if I supplied the tubes.

  52. #52
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    very interesting. i will be lurking on this thread.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir_crackien
    very interesting. i will be lurking on this thread.
    Too late, you are already actively participating.

  54. #54
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    Any word on who these guys are?

    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell
    Correction: It was actually at the '08 Cycle Show in Taipei where I saw something similar. They performed a demonstration that showed punctures leaked very slowly as long as the object was still in the tire/tube. They also showed that by using a lighter it was possible to soften/melt the material at the site of the puncture, one could then pinch the material together and effectively repair the tube. No patch needed- just a lighter.

    Any info on who these guys are? Have they brought them to market? Under what brand?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie
    Any info on who these guys are? Have they brought them to market? Under what brand?
    I can't recall the name of the company, but at the time they were still in the testing phase. I'll look for them again next month.
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  56. #56
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    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Apparently it was a company called Foss
    Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foss Worldwide
    • Our EFT are a highly polymerized un-vulcanized rubber composite. When punctured, the material forms and air-tight seal retarding the leak speed giving the rider extra time to make safe repairs.
    • 30% lighter than the competition, EFT have a density if only 0.88 g/cc compared to that traditional tubes which can have densities up to 1.3 g/cc.
    • The elasticity of EFT make them resistant to punctures and pinches providing added safety for riders.
    • Made from modified thermoplastic elastomer compounds (TPE), EFT can be recycled with other TPE products protecting the environment by minimizing waste.
    I wonder what this magic Eclipse tube is made from and how it compares.

    Anybody sells this Foss thing? I bet it will be much cheaper then anything from Switzerland.

  58. #58
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    Interesting coincidence.

    Foss "completed production line" on Jan 16.

    And passed standard reliability test on January 20, clearing it for being sold from Taiwan.

    And a couple weeks later our Swiss friends go public with something that oddly resembles that product (at least in the claimed performance benefits and appearance).


  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Interesting coincidence.

    Foss "completed production line" on Jan 16.

    And passed standard reliability test on January 20, clearing it for being sold from Taiwan.

    And a couple weeks later our Swiss friends go public with something that oddly resembles that product (at least in the claimed performance benefits and appearance).

    Can't get much closer looking than that, huh?

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Interesting coincidence.



    And a couple weeks later our Swiss friends go public with something that oddly resembles that product (at least in the claimed performance benefits and appearance).
    sorry - but once again these china-tubes have nothing to do with the Eclipse tube from SWITZERLAND!!

    we had this exact same debate in the german ww-forum and even Foss replied that they have nothing to do with Eclipse at all:
    "The product from the company Eclipse is not FOSS’s product [...]

    The weight of our product the EFT is depending on the size, around 60g (20/25C-32C) – 120g (26/2.3-2.6) "

    They use some sort of Thermoplastic rubber.Repairs can be done using a lighter and a screwdriver to melt a possible hole together....no kidding! this can be found on their flyers instructions on how to repair.

    release date: "soon"...strange since they already showed up on the 2008 Taipeh show last spring!



    I'd say it's pretty obvious that with this weight it has nothing in common with the 56g Eclipse tube.
    Last edited by nino; 02-10-2009 at 11:57 PM.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    sorry - but once again these china-tubes have nothing to do with the Eclipse tube from SWITZERLAND!!
    There is no need to shout, as we all just learned about both of the products and asking questions. If you do not want us speculating, then quit playing hard to get and hinting and just provide solid data.

    And, frankly, I find nothing special about Eclipse being from Switzerland, besides the usual expectation of being overpriced and heavily hyped. Taiwan is more then capable of producing quality products, and that particular product is obviously not targeted directly to weight savings. If it is durable, close to 100g for 2.0", and cheap, it will have its place.

    As far as having nothing in common - we will see when we know more about the material used by Eclipse and its other properties. So far, no data is available.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    There is no need to shout, as we all just learned about both of the products and asking questions. If you do not want us speculating, then quit playing hard to get and hinting and just provide solid data.

    And, frankly, I find nothing special about Eclipse being from Switzerland, besides the usual expectation of being overpriced and heavily hyped. Taiwan is more then capable of producing quality products, and that particular product is obviously not targeted directly to weight savings. If it is durable, close to 100g for 2.0", and cheap, it will have its place.

    As far as having nothing in common - we will see when we know more about the material used by Eclipse and its other properties. So far, no data is available.
    It's made inesclamation since people seemed to believe i was presenting the Eclipse tube when in reality it was just a relabelled Foss...not so!

    sorry-at the specifications of the diameter of the Eclipse tube i doubt you can find a cheap source in asia. Rest assured that Eclipse has done their homework and so far only very few are able to extrude such thin material with constant thickness and quality.

    I can only provide the data i am sure of which is the weight, the ride and the looks. i am not involved in the manufacturing and actually didn't care of the details too much. I got the tubes and ride theem since a couple of months without any issues. That's it.

    I think Eclipse will tell the details when the tubes get released. Maybe i can get more info before that but i really don't care as long asthey perform as they do.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    It's made inesclamation since people seemed to believe i was presenting the Eclipse tube when in reality it was just a relabelled Foss...not so!
    I was not suggesting that. I just found it to be an interesting coincidence that two products innovating in a visibly similar direction (for the lack of better data) are coming to market at the same time, after years of little progress in this technology. I am sure Eclipse will provide better quality - judging by their previous work.

    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    I can only provide the data i am sure of which is the weight, the ride and the looks. i am not involved in the manufacturing and actually didn't care of the details too much. I got the tubes and ride theem since a couple of months without any issues. That's it.
    I understand. That's why I (and I am sure a lot of other people on this board) am looking forward for further details as they come out.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    I was not suggesting that. I just found it to be an interesting coincidence that two products innovating in a visibly similar direction (for the lack of better data) are coming to market at the same time, after years of little progress in this technology. I am sure Eclipse will provide better quality - judging by their previous work.



    I understand. That's why I (and I am sure a lot of other people on this board) am looking forward for further details as they come out.
    Oh, come on! Normally, I stay out of these "discussions," but I'm calling total and complete BS on this latest comment of yours. You were OBVIOUSLY suggesting that this new Eclipse tube was the same as the Foss product. At least have the guts to own up to it, eh?

    Even if not--and I doubt that you were not--you were, at the very least, trying to bully Nino into telling us more information. I'm sure more info will come out when it's available. If you really just want to know more, I'm pretty sure that there are better ways to "ask.'

  65. #65
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    Well...

    Well Curmy was drawing our attention to a VERY similar product, releasing @ the same time...I mean as far as weight, '30%'less could mean 100gms minus 30% = 70gms...

    A lot of parallel; no?

    Oh, and more free adverts for possible distrubution....
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    ....what the hell you lookin' down here for?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecoast
    Well Curmy was drawing our attention to a VERY similar product, releasing @ the same time...I mean as far as weight, '30%'less could mean 100gms minus 30% = 70gms...

    A lot of parallel; no?
    no - if the main purpose of that other tube would be minimal weight they would clearly state it...they don't. Instead they just say it's 30% lighter which for me means 30% lighter than a conventional tube which usually is about 150g.

    It seems i'm right since they even confirmed the weights as following:
    "The weight of our product the EFT is depending on the size, around 60g (20/25C-32C) – 120g (26/2.3-2.6) "

    So a 20" BMX tube is 60g, a real MTB tube is 100-120g. Still light but nowhere near as light as the Eclipse tube.

    Then that other tube was presented already last spring at Taipeh cycle show while Eclipse still hasn't showed their product officially.

  67. #67
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    Nino

    Following this thread and the RK thread. I am new to ghetto tubeless (have been using it for only 1 month) and have not even fitted my own tyres yet.

    Are you saying that once these tubes are out you will be using them and ditching a Stans tubeless set up altogether?

  68. #68
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    uuuuh!

    Quote Originally Posted by celestequattro
    Nino

    Following this thread and the RK thread. I am new to ghetto tubeless (have been using it for only 1 month) and have not even fitted my own tyres yet.

    Are you saying that once these tubes are out you will be using them and ditching a Stans tubeless set up altogether?
    I never used Stans!
    I am using Eclipse only!!!

    yes - i already converted all my bikes back to these tubes! They offer all the advantages of the tubelesskits without the hassle of installation, possible leaks and allow for quick and easy tire changes...

  69. #69
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    I don't see the problem people have here, great product. Nino do I order them from you when they're available?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by saga
    I don't see the problem people have here, great product. Nino do I order them from you when they're available?
    It's not about me selling them!

    They will be sold through distributors worldwide.

  71. #71
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    Nino

    Thanks for the reply.

    These tubes will be an answer to my prayers! Please let us know when they are out. Will make switching tyres dead easy and saves another 45g on the spare in my back pocket.

  72. #72
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    Weeno,

    So how did you come up with 30 times more resitant to pinch flats than normal tubes number? How was this measured?

    How are you testing these in the middle of winter? What type of riding was done to test?

    What test was used to measure rolling resitance?

    How many miles do you have on these tubes?
    beaver hunt

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaLove
    Oh, come on! Normally, I stay out of these "discussions," but I'm calling total and complete BS on this latest comment of yours. You were OBVIOUSLY suggesting that this new Eclipse tube was the same as the Foss product. At least have the guts to own up to it, eh?
    No, I was not. I would not bother quoting my own posts - I suggest you improve your reading comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaLove
    you were, at the very least, trying to bully Nino in to telling us more information. '
    Yes, I was.

  74. #74
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    I have a question, and I'm surprised it hasn't been asked yet. I ride through goathead/tumbleweed/cactus country, so flat prevention is essential.

    Before going tubeless, I tried using sealant-filled tubes. After the inevitable thorn, sealant would puddle between the tube/tire... Air pressure is what forces sealant into a puncture, and is the whole idea behind tubeless actually working. When you use sealant-filled tubes, the pressure to force sealant into a thorn puncture is no longer there. It will instead just leak gobs of sealant out and not have a boundary of air to dry.

    How can it take the place of tubeless in conditions where deciduous spikes make their home?
    Last edited by Kyle2834; 02-11-2009 at 08:29 PM.
    ***

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    Rest assured that Eclipse has done their homework and so far only very few are able to extrude such thin material with constant thickness and quality.
    Sure they have. They are called condoms. Millions are made a year.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    Sure they have. They are called condoms. Millions are made a year.

    Good point. Now we need a glow-in-the-dark ribbed version of Eclipse tubes.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    Sure they have. They are called condoms. Millions are made a year.
    There's likely more than a few kids born every year because of small holes in condoms.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  78. #78
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    [QUOTE=Curmy]No, I was not. I would not bother quoting my own posts - I suggest you improve your reading comprehension.
    QUOTE]

    Just sad, eh?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaLove
    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    No, I was not. I would not bother quoting my own posts - I suggest you improve your reading comprehension.
    Just sad, eh?

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle2834
    I have a question, and I'm surprised it hasn't been asked yet. I ride through goathead/tumbleweed/cactus country, so flat prevention is essential.

    Before going tubeless, I tried using sealant-filled tubes. After the inevitable thorn, sealant would puddle between the tube/tire... Air pressure is what forces sealant into a puncture, and is the whole idea behind tubeless actually working. When you use sealant-filled tubes, the pressure to force sealant into a thorn puncture is no longer there. It will instead just leak gobs of sealant out and not have a boundary of air to dry.

    How can it take the place of tubeless in conditions where deciduous spikes make their home?
    Finally a good point:
    The whole idea is to have a tube so thin that mimicks the skin which sealant usually forms inside tubeless conversions. Such a thin "skin" is really attached to the inside of the tire and less of an individual part inside the tire. It is much softer and more flexible...by the way - this is what reduces the rolling resistance! We all know that sealant inside a regular tube isn't doing too good. Only minor holes can be sealed (only using good sealants that is!). The constant movement/flex inside the tire makes holes re-open and leak again. Also a streched Butyl tube has a tendency to rip open once there is a cut or hole. There is so much strech on the material and the material itself isn't too elastic. That's why minor holes or cuts end up bigger in regular tubes.

    So the idea was to get a really thin skin inside the tire. Now this skin is out of an extraordinary rubber which is far more resistant than any other tube out there.It is extremely elastic yet extremely resistant to cuts. So far it seems the concept is working. We had Thomas Frischknecht riding it in Tuscany /Italy where you have lots of thorns and sharp rocks.I know that place, i go there every spring too and usually you get a flat about every hour when riding in a group! Everyone has to carry at least 1 spare tube because of this and often we found ourselves fixing flats because we run out of tubes....in 2000 i started riding "tubeless" with sealant and didn't get punctures anymore....now Frischi never got a flat using the Eclipse tube as well...for me this is like the ultimate test. If it does withstand riding down there it s really doing extremely well.

    Basically the tube is just acting as a sealant skin yet there is still sealant inside if ever you get a puncture from a thorn. The material of the tube is so resistant it is almost impossible to get a snakebite. Sure you still can get a flat. There is no such thing like 100% protection but so far for me they come very close.

    The advantage over Tubeless conversions is it is airthight right from the beginning ! No possible airleaks, no fiddling with compressors or adding more selant or having the tire half flat the next day, no messy sealant...the tube is handled like any other tube, mounts easy with EVERY tire and you don't need any practice to set it up unlike tubeless conversions where too many people stay away because of all the hassle that is involved. You often need a compressor, some tires are simply too porous and won't seal or will do so only after serious treatment...anyway - with this inner tube you will get the same benefits but with a much easier setup. Tire changes are easy and can be done minutes before a start...no special kits for specific rims. No guidelines to follow, no restrictions at all. This tube just fits. The whole things is just that : it is EASY, LIGHT and WORKS.

    Important note : tubeless conversions do work great if set up right!! If you did it a couple of times you get accustomed to it, you know the tricks and know how to act whenever there is a problem. I used tubelesskits since 8 years and i can seal almost every tire (important note: almost) But there's many,many people that still have their fare share of problems when trying to set up a tire using sealant. And we all know - It can be a mess. I doubt there is riders that didn't have their fare share of problems while setting up some tires. Only experience helps in getting some tires to seal 100%...no wonder you see so many questions asked about tubelesskits: "Is tire XY ok to be used with sealant?...."Is setup XY going to work'"..."What pressure do you use with sealant?"...."Will tire XY inflate using a floorpump?"....

    ...you all know what i mean.

    This should come to an end with the Eclipse tube. EVERYONE, even your grandmother, knows how a inner tube works. No explanation needed. No instructions to follow. It fits and works. If you use sealant is up to you. Those looking for best flat-protection might add some right away. Others might use it without any sealant and just pour some in in case of a flat (like myself).

    I hope i could explain a bit better what it is all about. Don't ask me about chemical details etc. ...i don't know which exact material or other detailed specifications. I just told you what i know and so far it works.

    Only time will tell if it is really that good. It will still take some time to be available...once available rest assured you will know about it.
    Last edited by nino; 02-12-2009 at 01:43 AM.

  81. #81
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    Wow. Well that's a cool idea. If it works. Can't wait to give it a try.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    . EVERYONE, even your grandmother, knows how a inner tube works. No explanation needed.
    Yeah, that's explains people complaining about $25 flat repair bills in an LBS in the "beginner" area of this forum.

    All in all, prod your friend to ship us some finished product, or at least some more technical data on the material.

    By the way, as far as tubes and sealant - thick glycol sealant, such as Slime's stuff already works somewhat. I could imagine that sealant for the new tube should also be designed in tandem with tube's properties.
    Last edited by Broccoli; 02-12-2009 at 11:39 AM.

  83. #83
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    Maybe you will have to test it in humid weather, i mean, different conditions from USA.... I suggest to test it in Brazil !! Just tell me, I will be happy to help lol

  84. #84
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    So, does Frischi already have Dugasts with these tubes? That should be the ultimate of ultimates?

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    So, does Frischi already have Dugasts with these tubes? That should be the ultimate of ultimates?
    nah - not yet.he wants but there's some hurdles to overcome...

  86. #86
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    condoms also have these kind of properties nino decribed maybe its a similar material.

    whats the estimated price for one innertube nino?

  87. #87
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    hey nino... when are these going to be available? what is the projected price? seems like you have lots of people salivating over them....

  88. #88
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    2-3 months...

    Quote Originally Posted by whybotherme
    hey nino... when are these going to be available? what is the projected price? seems like you have lots of people salivating over them....
    As i already wrote in my initial post it might take another 2-3 months go get them. Although i doubt that there will be masses available seeing how thing progress over here...Pricing is still in the air since it was planned to sell them together with sealant only. So not just a tube but rather a "system" just like a tubelesskit. But from the reactions it seems most won't use sealant anway so the tube might be available just individually as well.

    Anyway -it will definitely cost more than your typical Latex-tube. It is not made in asia and there's quite a lot involved in doing it...made in Switzerland!

  89. #89
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    Chasing windmills?

    Wow, 4 pages on something that isn't even known if it can be mass produced yet?

    Looks great, but call us back in a few months when it's on the shelf.

  90. #90
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    If a product isn't available, people aren't allowed to talk about it?
    3po armorless, the first weight weenie.

  91. #91
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    What a pity it wasn't released before!


  92. #92
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by fernandoj
    What a pity it wasn't released before!

    1st time i would like to see some tubes explode

  94. #94
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    Amazing looking woman. Too bad see seems to know she is.

  95. #95
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    I wonder how she rides tubeless....
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    ....what the hell you lookin' down here for?

  96. #96
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    48g !

    well - yesterday was the 8th birthday of my son and since the main man at Eclipse is his godfather he got 2 tubes for his next 24" bike that i am already building. It will get summer before he can throw a leg over it...he is still to small.

    anyway - these tubes weigh 48g!!

    easily saved 100g per wheel. i tried hard to find lightweight inner tubes in this particular size but found only some Schwalbe tubes at 145g or so.Still 15g lighter than the tubes i already got with that bike... The weight-weenie i am i still ordered those Schwalbes and was happy about the 30g savings total....but now i see them collect dust in my basement



    I just realized that my BMX Cruiser also has 24" wheels...hmmm...so 4" lenght weigh ca. 8g.....if i'm right BMX bikes have 20"...so we would be looking at around 40g for a 20" BMX inner tube...not bad.

    Same for 29" wheels....if you add a couple of inches we would look at 29" tubes of ca. 65g !
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by nino; 02-25-2009 at 12:00 AM.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    well - yesterday was the 8th birthday of my son and since the main man at Eclipse is his godfather he got 2 tubes for his next 24" bike that i am already building. It will get summer before he can throw a leg over it...he is still to small.
    Sounds cool - post some pics of the junior bike build
    Ego maniacs please object to my posts.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Amazing looking woman. Too bad see seems to know she is.
    Too right.

    Nothing wrong with a girl with confidence, though...I just wish Australian magazine editors would have the confidence to SHOOT SOME OTHER FEMALE MODEL OTHER THAN GUDEX once in a while. C'mon guys, what about Nikki Fisher??

    Anyhoo, wow, can't wait for those Eclipse tubes
    Ego maniacs please object to my posts.

  99. #99
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    Nino, any projected sale dates?
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  100. #100
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    How much does the sealant weigh?
    How easy are they to fix?
    How hot can I run them?

    I ride in 44c + (in the shade). Will they handle this?
    What's the max psi for them?

    Who, what and how were they tested to be 30x less to puncture?
    You should be able to provide information if you post the claims

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