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  1. #1
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    Eclipse - Innertube: 56g !!!!

    Ok-here we go:
    i was telling you about those secret prototypes i was using since about past september. Now i am allowed to tell you some details. These tubes still aren't into production and what i show here is still a prototype although already very close to what the public will get later. it's only some minor details that get changed but the main features like weight and performance will remain untouched.

    Eclipse Tube: 26" x 1,8 -2,3 = 56g !!

    No this weight doesn't come along with all the usual weaknesses you would expect out of a lightweight inner tube. We all know how prone ultralight innertubes are. Tubes like Conti Supersonic or Maxxis Flyweight (both about 90-95g) suffer big time offroads. These inner tubes however have almost half the weight and in-house tests showed that the resistance to pinchflats is 30 times higher than regular butyl tubes. Also A LOT,lot better than any latex tube out there...

    I also reported about how many flats i got using Conti Supersonic tubes inside my Conti Race King Supersonic 2,2 tires. I got a flat almost every second ride!! I had 8 patches on the tubes before i changed them with these prototypes. Now i have done at least 1500km with these tubes and still haven't got a flat. I use them with the exact same Conti tires at the same pressure on the same trails...I don't even use the Eclipse sealant which is suggested to use. Since i am tester No.1 i am trying to get the best out of them without any sealant so i can really see how good they hold up. So far there hasn't been a single flat. Tire changes are a breeze. They mount as easy as any regular innertube. No fuss, no sealant, no compressor needed...just install and go.

    The inner tube is so thin it also offers the same ride quality than the tubelesskits do. There is a huge difference in the ride between regular tubes and these tubes! They really offer a much suppler ride and they definitely roll a lot faster too...it's like all the benefits of tubelesskits in a inner tube.

    I know that you guy out there will have a hard time to belive me but in about 2 months they should be available to the masses and rest assured they will have a huge impact on the cycling scene!

    Planned are 29"er tubes (i expect those to weigh about 60g), roadbike (i expect about 25-30g) and also Freeride/DH which shouldn't be much more than 65g.

    I will post better pics as soon as i get the pre-series tubes which i should get in the next couple of days.
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  2. #2
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    The weight alone is pretty incredible, the other benefits sound great too. Have you heard anything about what kind of pricing these will carry? Will these be available in the US, or through European outlets only? I'm looking forward to hearing more on these, as they sound like a major break-through, if they hold up to your mini review.

  3. #3
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    Presta only? or are schraeders available too?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetta_mike
    Presta only? or are schraeders available too?
    Presta only. you can use an adapter if you want the "big" valve.

  5. #5
    Hack Racer
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    how long are the valves for the various tube variants?

  6. #6
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    As someone who's not very excited to go tubeless, these look great!

  7. #7
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    This is great news. I am still trying to get my new Race Kings completely sealed.

    Thanks!

  8. #8
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    Valve lenght...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    how long are the valves for the various tube variants?
    what you see is the valve lenght for all tubes. that's standard valve lenght.no different than on any other inner tube!

  9. #9
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    Nino,
    What kind of pressures were you running these at? You mentioned at one point running over curbs trying to pinch flat them. Any idea on goathead thorn resistance? or would that be where the added sealant is recommended?
    TIA

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    Presta only. you can use an adapter if you want the "big" valve.
    I am assuming these are removable presta valve cores if the option to add sealant is available, correct?

    BB

  11. #11
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    Awesome - if the price on these is remotely reasonable, this could be a revolution in the $/gram department for weight weenies who use tubes

  12. #12
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    If they're that puncture proof, even if they cost 4x what the Conti Supersonics do it would still be a bargain.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  13. #13
    El Toro
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    and... what is the material is manufactured of?? I don't see it...

  14. #14
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    awesome!!!

    No more liquid yuck needed.
    3po armorless, the first weight weenie.

  15. #15
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    And is there a ribbed version for more tire pleasure?
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  16. #16
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    Looks great...
    What is bes for you: no tubes or this new tube (for the same tire, pressure without taking in account the mounting of no tubes)

    Do they loss air like a latex tube?

    What about price?

  17. #17
    No. Just No.
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    These look awesome Nino. Question ; doesn't it seem unusual that this product is planned to be made available for purchase in 2 months, when currently there's only 1 "beta" tester? I guess for me whether I want to be an early adopter based on limited field use (much as I respect your own personal testing) will be very dependent on price. The higher the price, the more likely I will be to let other people shake these down for a couple of months and then watch for feedback and experience from these early adopters.

    Also, just for curiousity, are you able to tell us what your relationship with this product is? In the past it's been unclear at times what is or is not "your" product i.e. are you an investor or somehow officially involved in another capacity? Not that this would keeep me from buying a good product at a reasonable price. It just helps to know where you are coming from.

    Is the product going to be available through standard distribution channnels (e.g. local bike store, etc.) or be a more of an eBay/specialty type of distribution?

  18. #18
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    Eclipse is a tubeless kit manufacturer in Switzerland. They appear to make the tubeless conversion kits for DT Swiss and Scott. These will likely be a mainstream LBS product as they become available.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  19. #19
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    Certainly interresting.

    They would be the exact same weight as my tubeless setup - Yellow tape and valve + Sealant is 55grams for me. But then again they wouldn't seal any puntures etc.

  20. #20
    El Toro
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    Polyurethane ??? (loss air)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    when currently there's only 1 "beta" tester?
    I would think there is a difference between "#1" and "only one"...

    Interesting. Are they designed to be used with sealant?

    I like how sealant helps with thorns around here, but I do not like to deal with mess. I was thinking about experimenting with getting some narrow, light tubes (like for 1" 26" tires) and adding some sealant inside, for still less weight, but more puncture resistance, but never got around experimenting. You can buy Slime tubes, but I found that they do not work as good as Stan's.

    I would think that a drawback will be that once sealant dries out (depends on permeability of the material how soon that happens) you would need to throw the tube out. Can not scrub and refill.

    Looking forward to try those out. I was always surprised nobody tried many new materials for MTB innertubes. Tons of interesting stuff out there, and many folks will pay a premium.

  22. #22
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    I'd like to know how well patches work on them, for the unexpected punctures.

    Also, will the 26" version stretch comfortably around a 29" rim? That would save me time waiting for the 29" version, I run 26" all the time anyway.
    I hope they'll offer a good gram price, I'll probably step in for all of my stable then :-)
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    These look awesome Nino. Question ; doesn't it seem unusual that this product is planned to be made available for purchase in 2 months, when currently there's only 1 "beta" tester? I guess for me whether I want to be an early adopter based on limited field use (much as I respect your own personal testing) will be very dependent on price. The higher the price, the more likely I will be to let other people shake these down for a couple of months and then watch for feedback and experience from these early adopters.

    Also, just for curiousity, are you able to tell us what your relationship with this product is? In the past it's been unclear at times what is or is not "your" product i.e. are you an investor or somehow officially involved in another capacity? Not that this would keeep me from buying a good product at a reasonable price. It just helps to know where you are coming from.

    Is the product going to be available through standard distribution channnels (e.g. local bike store, etc.) or be a more of an eBay/specialty type of distribution?
    Rest assured i'm not the only tester! BUT i am very close (best friend) to the main man behind Eclipse...and i am the one getting the news first. However i have nothing to do with Eclipse and this is not my product at all. I am however involved in the development stages...Besides many other local racers Eclipse has one of the worlds BEST XC-rider as their tester and you will most likely will see him use this product in the future....he became worldchampion using the Eclipse tubelesskit before and is now at the forefront again.

    It will once again take some time to get people convinced. We had the same happen with the tubelesskits before where only slowly and over the years the advantages got known and accepted.

    Yes- it will be available through distributors worldwide.

    answers to some questions above:
    -no air loss! These tubes keep the air thight for a long time.

    -the valve is removable just like you have it on tubelesskits too to be able to add some sealant

    -for the eventual pucture you have the sealant which should be able to take care of that.the tube comes with Eclipse-sealant so it's your choice if you run them with sealant right away or if you add it in case of a puncture. I haven't used any sealant so far...and never had a puncture until now.

    -i am using them inside my Conti RaceKing 2,2" at 1.9-2,0 bar pressure (ca. 28 psi)

  24. #24
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    Looks like the tubes they had on display at Interbike '07. I'll have to dig up the pics.
    Tire Design & Development Engineer. The opinions expressed in this forum are solely my own.

  25. #25
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    Looking forward to the road bike tubes.....any ETA on those?

  26. #26
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    Nino, PM me when these are ready for market. I will buy a case!
    "The ONLY person who needs to race.....is the entrant"

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Eclipse is a tubeless kit manufacturer in Switzerland. They appear to make the tubeless conversion kits for DT Swiss and Scott. These will likely be a mainstream LBS product as they become available.
    Yes, I know the history. I bought an Eclipse kit directly from Nino in 2003 way before it was licensed to DT as Eclipse's first corporate customer, and also before Stan's had commercial kits.

    I always appreciate the information from Nino as he truly does have some great connections and dedication to spreading the word about very cool parts. At the same time, when someone is introducing the latest and greatest and asking his observations and experiences to be treated with some validity, I believe it's also important to understand any relationship between the person and the product/company. While Nino is stating that he has nothing to do with Eclipse, many of his early posts on the topic several years ago had a distinct "we" tone that seemed to include him when talking about the company. With the cassette products Nino has frequently showed, and the I-Link housing systems, it's also been unclear at times who the product is actually being developed and marketed by, whether that's Nino or someone else.

    I'm very excited about the potential of these tubes, along with everyone else. It seems that it has always been held as an assumption that people wouldn't pay several times the cost (???) of a standard tube for a design in a newer material with huge advantages, and so no R&D was done in this area. Hopefully this will prove that assumption wrong.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmix
    Polyurethane ??? (loss air)

    By the way - anybody is using those Panaracer green polyurethane tubes? How do they hold up?

  29. #29
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    Hmmm.... guess I could live with a 20.66 lb FS bike instead of a 20.83 lb one....

    Especially seeing how I've had great luck with the Maxxis tubes. If these are that much better overall I'll be pleased though. I'll certainly grab 3 or 4 of them myself right away.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    By the way - anybody is using those Panaracer green polyurethane tubes? How do they hold up?

    I used them for years and never had any problems with them that I didn't have with regular tubes. They held up just fine. I'm running tubeless now though. I don't know if I'll consider these new tubes or not. With the Stan's rims I'm using now (Olympic rear, Race7000 front) I'm running 25/23 psi with the Race King 2.2s, and I love the traction. I don't know if I could go that low without worrying about pinch flats using the Eclipse tubes.

  31. #31
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    hurry up with the 29er version please.
    get to know me thru my blog
    http://oilcanracer.blogspot.com/

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Yes, I know the history. I bought an Eclipse kit directly from Nino in 2003 way before it was licensed to DT as Eclipse's first corporate customer, and also before Stan's had commercial kits.

    I always appreciate the information from Nino as he truly does have some great connections and dedication to spreading the word about very cool parts. At the same time, when someone is introducing the latest and greatest and asking his observations and experiences to be treated with some validity, I believe it's also important to understand any relationship between the person and the product/company. While Nino is stating that he has nothing to do with Eclipse, many of his early posts on the topic several years ago had a distinct "we" tone that seemed to include him when talking about the company. With the cassette products Nino has frequently showed, and the I-Link housing systems, it's also been unclear at times who the product is actually being developed and marketed by, whether that's Nino or someone else.

    I'm very excited about the potential of these tubes, along with everyone else. It seems that it has always been held as an assumption that people wouldn't pay several times the cost (???) of a standard tube for a design in a newer material with huge advantages, and so no R&D was done in this area. Hopefully this will prove that assumption wrong.
    I am no employe of Eclipse but since the main man at Eclipse is my best friend i am very close to what happens there. We both share our passion with bikes and it's only logical that things get discussed over and over together although i am not an employee. Therefore i can't tell you in all details what it's all about with this tube since i know only "the main line".

    The cassettes on the other hand is MY thing! I am the weight-weenie and it is me looking for ways to get light parts for bikes. It seems i have a good hand in finding/selecting parts and often i am offering them as one of the first worldwide. This however has nothing to do with Eclipse and is also not what i do for a living. I am a sculptor and a very passionate cyclist with interest in lightweight parts. It just happened i got into this over the years.

    The inner tube is now something that is VERY light and it gets made by my friend so sure i am excited about it. I had the opportunity to use them and they do perform even better than what we had expected. When i am so excited it is the weight-weenie inside me that is all happy because this inner tube is really offering great weight savings and makes life so much easier. I still can't see how this tube can be made in masses as by now every single tube is hand made and it takes quite some time to do so...so i am really interested how things get started and how he manages to get masses made. That's where i have no idea ....but the tubes perform great and that's what counts for now.

  33. #33
    Don't be hasty.
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    If they can make a "DH" tube that will stand up to that kind of abuse for 65gr, that would be unbelievable.

  34. #34
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    Is there an Eclipse website?

  35. #35
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    I currently run Forte Lunar Lite tubes @ 86g each. This is going to be a huge weight savings.


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    By the way - anybody is using those Panaracer green polyurethane tubes? How do they hold up?
    They actually work OK. I've gotten 2 flats on them during the later half of last season, both were super small pin pricks that I didn't even notice until the next day. They are easily fixable with Park glueless patches which I can't say for Michelin latex which I usually use.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    By the way - anybody is using those Panaracer green polyurethane tubes? How do they hold up?
    I've used them. I had one tube last for over a year, maybe two years. i had another one go flat at the end of a race. The Conti Supersonic tubes I tried were terrible.
    I would try these but not if they cost three times as much as a regular tube.

  38. #38
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    well...

    Quote Originally Posted by limba
    I've used them. I had one tube last for over a year, maybe two years. i had another one go flat at the end of a race. The Conti Supersonic tubes I tried were terrible.
    I would try these but not if they cost three times as much as a regular tube.
    ...buying 3 tubes because you got flats isn't any cheaper and it is heavier and slower all the time!

    It's that common thinking that ultralight tubes equals weak tubes and many flats...this is wrong here! this tube is way superior in every aspect.

    I'd say most guys in this forum also buy the lighter, foldable version of a tire which costs 3 times as much as the heavier wire-version, right? that's because the performance is definitely< better while the tire is also lighter at the same time. But since this is a well known fact people just accept the steeper price tag.

    Same here - as soon as people will see the real benefits i'm sure they will be willing to accept its higher price. Time will tell. I know it sounds weird and unreal that such a light tube is actually better but this is how things are.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell
    Looks like the tubes they had on display at Interbike '07. I'll have to dig up the pics.
    Correction: It was actually at the '08 Cycle Show in Taipei where I saw something similar. They performed a demonstration that showed punctures leaked very slowly as long as the object was still in the tire/tube. They also showed that by using a lighter it was possible to soften/melt the material at the site of the puncture, one could then pinch the material together and effectively repair the tube. No patch needed- just a lighter.

    Nino, is this possibly the same product? Perhaps Eclipse bought the patent?



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  40. #40
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    Is the valve aluminium?

  41. #41
    FIRENZE rulez !!
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    looks like ... a rim flap... not a tube ....

    but the weight is so incredible

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell
    Nino, is this possibly the same product? Perhaps Eclipse bought the patent?
    NO - that's not the same and has nothing to do with the Eclipse tube.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by diziq
    Is the valve aluminium?
    yes - the valve is aluminium.

  44. #44
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    what kind of material are the eclipse tubes made of?

  45. #45
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    Material...

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio_pt
    what kind of material are the eclipse tubes made of?
    some kind of rubber
    sorry - more details when it's available.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    NO - that's not the same and has nothing to do with the Eclipse tube.
    Well, it is some new transparent plastic, and they are somewhat puncture resistant. Glad to see that Eclipse are not the only ones trying to innovate a bit. (I would bet on Taiwan companies being able to bring it into mass production if it works)

    About time. I want light, puncture resistant tubes and no more sealant mess and maintenance. If they last for a long time I would not mind paying a good fraction of a new tire cost for a tube.

  47. #47
    FTM
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    would love to put these (700c version) in my cyclocross tubulars, maybe they'll be available for next season.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    some kind of rubber
    sorry - more details when it's available.
    Kinda out of subject but Nino could you please get contact me back. I've sent you emails and PMs last week and haven't heard from you since. Thanks

  49. #49
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    I'm sick of the teasing. Just let us know when/where we can buy them, and we'll review!

    Also do these require talc-ing
    B

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTM
    would love to put these (700c version) in my cyclocross tubulars, maybe they'll be available for next season.
    I imagine that would be quite difficult, no? Unless you're running "open tubulars" on clincher rims.
    A hardtail is forever

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