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  1. #1
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    Do Hollowtech II cranksets w/ integrated BBs really save weight?

    According to weightweenies.starbike.com, a XT M760 w/ integrated BB weighs about 865 g. If you compare this to the previous generation Hollowtech splined model w/ a comparable BB, you'd get M752 + ES71=> 625 g + 255 g = 880 g.

    15 g is a pretty pathetic weight savings if you ask me... Is my math wrong or did I not take something into account?

  2. #2
    Jm.
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    Small decrease in weight, HUGE increase in stiffness. The 05 XT cranks are much stiffer, and this helps a lot with power transmission.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  3. #3
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    Furthermore to what Jm said....

    Quote Originally Posted by burndtjamb
    According to weightweenies.starbike.com, a XT M760 w/ integrated BB weighs about 865 g. If you compare this to the previous generation Hollowtech splined model w/ a comparable BB, you'd get M752 + ES71=> 625 g + 255 g = 880 g.

    15 g is a pretty pathetic weight savings if you ask me... Is my math wrong or did I not take something into account?

    With the new intergated cranks you get away from the crappy ISIS BB with the outboard bearings.


    So in summary, you get a slight weight savings, stiffer cranks and more reliable BB.
    Dad...isn't the word "abbreviation" being hypocritical being so long.... My 11 year old daughter.

  4. #4
    Ty
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    Off Topic....but...


    Is it just me or does anyone else think the new (ish) integrated XT design looks a lot nicer than the XTR?

    The old (pre-integrated B/B) XTR looked realy neat, but now I think the XT looks better.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by •Ty•
    Off Topic....but...


    Is it just me or does anyone else think the new (ish) integrated XT design looks a lot nicer than the XTR?

    The old (pre-integrated B/B) XTR looked realy neat, but now I think the XT looks better.
    I couldn't agree more. I would never buy the XTR over the XT merely because they both perform very well but the XT looks a good bit better.

    I loved my old pre integrated BB XTR's. The were so solid, nice and stiff and the chain rings seemed to last for a good while.
    Trev!

  6. #6
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    oh really???

    In the first place, I don't really understand what's with the logic about XT not being less inferior compared to XTR.

    XTR'04 cranks weigh about 796g and is so stiff, I couldn't ask for more myself. As a ex-XT gruppo user, I find that the cranks do flex under my 200lbs of meat.. especially when I pedal very hard to speed up. but not with the XTR. I never did get any form of flex whatsoever.

    I have since changed to full XTR after feeling how stiff hey actually were and hey, they saved alot of weight compared to XTR.

    one more thing, XT stuff durable?! I hardly think so. ALL my XT chainrings and cassettes worn out after 4 months of hard riding , but with XTR.. there was not much wear even after about 8 months usage with no problems in shifting.

    I'm not an extreme weight weenie... but with the XTR group... I can and would testify myself as an extremely satisfied user of these components. but not so with XT.

    Cheers

  7. #7
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    Yup, and 2005 LX too

    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    Small decrease in weight, HUGE increase in stiffness. The 05 XT cranks are much stiffer, and this helps a lot with power transmission.
    Agree w/ Jm. I have both. I can feel the difference. XT inegrated is much stiffer. And, that is saying something because the XT M752 cranks wer pretty darn stifff. What even amazes me more is that the 05 LX cranks wieght only about 80-90 gm more than the XT,but they are stiffer than the old XT 752. We put the new LX on wife's FS and I was thoroughly impressed. IMO, if you are not a weight weenie, the LX is a great bang for the buck.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by •Ty•
    Off Topic....but...


    Is it just me or does anyone else think the new (ish) integrated XT design looks a lot nicer than the XTR?

    The old (pre-integrated B/B) XTR looked realy neat, but now I think the XT looks better.
    I have to admit, I like the LX/Hone angular/Picasso cubist look of the arms the best. That and seen mounted to a frame they look so wide, they really say "strength".

    I know its an asthetic thing, but it looks sweet, IMHO.

    On another note, remember that a less stiff crank like the 03 XT's deflection will act like a spring and return most of that energy when the pressure lessens as the crank arm fights it's way back into original shape.

    Before I get flamed for not following the marketing piper I should post this Keith Bontrager article about stiffness (it is google cached as they just changed websites and pulled his articles - naughty!):
    http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache...tiffness&hl=en

    Mr.P

  9. #9
    Ty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    I have to admit, I like the LX/Hone angular/Picasso cubist look of the arms the best.
    AGREE!!!! 100%

    I love the look of the Hone arms, why couldn't XTR or even XT look like that, I think they look fantastic!

    I would have to put Hone at the top of my Beautiful Shimano Cranks top 3™

    1. Hone
    2. XT
    3. XTR

    It's a pity there is an inverse relationship between beauty and weight.

  10. #10
    Ty
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    mmmm???
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by •Ty•
    mmmm???
    Is that new XTR or something? I always thought the XTR had that shiny colour too it.
    Trev!

  12. #12
    Ty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    Is that new XTR or something? I always thought the XTR had that shiny colour too it.

    Potatoshop

  13. #13
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    Actually, if you change the granny ring and the bolts to aluminum, there is only 25 gr of difference between the Hollowtech II LX/Hone and the XT!

    -b

  14. #14
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    XT is way stiffer than XTR...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_CK
    In the first place, I don't really understand what's with the logic about XT not being less inferior compared to XTR.

    XTR'04 cranks weigh about 796g and is so stiff, I couldn't ask for more myself. As a ex-XT gruppo user, I find that the cranks do flex under my 200lbs of meat.. especially when I pedal very hard to speed up. but not with the XTR. I never did get any form of flex whatsoever.

    I have since changed to full XTR after feeling how stiff hey actually were and hey, they saved alot of weight compared to XTR.

    one more thing, XT stuff durable?! I hardly think so. ALL my XT chainrings and cassettes worn out after 4 months of hard riding , but with XTR.. there was not much wear even after about 8 months usage with no problems in shifting.

    I'm not an extreme weight weenie... but with the XTR group... I can and would testify myself as an extremely satisfied user of these components. but not so with XT.

    Cheers
    even LX is stiffer...just have a look here:
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  15. #15
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    Steifgkeit?..

    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    even LX is stiffer...just have a look here:
    A translation would be nice, but a chart with some old square bb's for reference would be best.
    "The wheel is an extension of the foot." The Minutemen

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    even LX is stiffer...just have a look here:
    I got a 2005 LX set last October and ridden over 2,500 km on it to this day. It works perfectly. It's not the typical WW set, but not heavier than a 1998 XT set for example. The cranks are my favourite: the aluminum axle feels stiff and I managed to save 5 mm Q-factor by modifying the interface, so now I use no spacers for 68 mm BB! I changed the chainrigs and bolts and the weight is down to 875 gr. Next, I'll sandblast it and give it a blue anodized finish to match my XTC... Of course, I recommend you to buy the XT: it's cheaper than these modifications, but it's not blue :-)

    -b

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    even LX is stiffer...just have a look here:
    Great post! Thanks! I Googled a quick translation:

    steifigkeit = rigidity

    Mr.P

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCRAMPY
    A translation would be nice, but a chart with some old square bb's for reference would be best.

    nino posted this article some time ago.... here it is again.
    octalink, isis and last is the square taper cranksets.
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    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  19. #19
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moo Shoo Pork
    Agree w/ Jm. I have both. I can feel the difference. XT inegrated is much stiffer. And, that is saying something because the XT M752 cranks wer pretty darn stifff. What even amazes me more is that the 05 LX cranks wieght only about 80-90 gm more than the XT,but they are stiffer than the old XT 752. We put the new LX on wife's FS and I was thoroughly impressed. IMO, if you are not a weight weenie, the LX is a great bang for the buck.
    Well, they are still a good bit of $$$ in a bike shop, expect to pay around $180 for the LX setup, around 280-300 for the XT, and at least a mont's rent for XTR

    I want to get some of those 05 LXs in our shop though...
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  20. #20
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    This may sound like heresy but...

    anyone out there still using a top-end square taper (i.e. Phil Wood, Action Tec) ?

    I'm going against the grain and putting the following on my new HT:

    Action Tec Ti square taper
    Ti bolts and washers
    Race Face Next (brand new off eBay)
    Sugino 42/32
    Vuelta 20

  21. #21
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    square rules!

    Quote Originally Posted by 514Climber
    anyone out there still using a top-end square taper (i.e. Phil Wood, Action Tec) ?

    I'm going against the grain and putting the following on my new HT:

    Action Tec Ti square taper
    Ti bolts and washers
    Race Face Next (brand new off eBay)
    Sugino 42/32
    Vuelta 20
    sure - I am
    lower weight (560g for the set), lower q-factor, vaste choice, no problem.
    perfect for me!

  22. #22
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    Me too! But where did you find Sugino rings??

    Quote Originally Posted by 514Climber
    anyone out there still using a top-end square taper (i.e. Phil Wood, Action Tec) ?

    I'm going against the grain and putting the following on my new HT:

    Action Tec Ti square taper
    Ti bolts and washers
    Race Face Next (brand new off eBay)
    Sugino 42/32
    Vuelta 20

    I have been looking everywhere for them. You may have bought the RF Next cranks I was eyeing on ebay. They are still out there. Any guideance you can give on locating sugino rings would be greatly appreciated.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    Well, they are still a good bit of $$$ in a bike shop, expect to pay around $180 for the LX setup, around 280-300 for the XT, and at least a mont's rent for XTR

    I want to get some of those 05 LXs in our shop though...
    ....or you could order from Germany and buy XTR for about the same price as XT in the US.

    http://www.bikediscount.com/html/xtr-2003.html

  24. #24
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    cheaper here...

    Quote Originally Posted by divve
    ....or you could order from Germany and buy XTR for about the same price as XT in the US.

    http://www.bikediscount.com/html/xtr-2003.html
    not my auction:
    http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...134615219&rd=1

  25. #25
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    I got the Sugino rings last year...

    from either www.waltworks.com or www.bikeman.com (I can't remember for certain which of the)

    The Vuelta was off eBay.

    When I got my first set of the Sugino 42/32 + Vuelta 20t combo, I knew this was going to be a sweet set! So I immediately started searching around the internet for a second set because the word (this was last year, by the way) on the street was that Sugino no longer makes those rings.

    I was lucky enough to find another new Vuelta off eBay, and the Sugino's from, again, either waltworks or bikeman...I'm pretty sure they don't carry them anymore...

    The Vuelta 20t, however, will be on eBay from time to time.

    You may also want to try a Google search.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

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