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  1. #1
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    Disk Brakes - The Weight Weenie's Choice

    So I'm finally, after over a decade of being a pro-hardtail partisan, going to abandon my stupid light hardtail for a dual squishy. Unfortunately, the frames I'm looking at are mostly disc only. I suppose I can live with that in spite of the fact I've been anti-disc for my entire life. I'm ready to take the plunge there, but I can give up my weight weenie ways. My bike, with Fox fork and discs needs to come in under 23 lbs.

    So what's the current weight weenie gospel on discs. From what I've read on this board over the years, the B4-SL's are no more. Is this true? If so, then what? Oh, btw - the things have got to work well too. This is why I'm going Fox over SID - they're worth the weight penalty.

  2. #2
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    marta sl

    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    So I'm finally, after over a decade of being a pro-hardtail partisan, going to abandon my stupid light hardtail for a dual squishy. Unfortunately, the frames I'm looking at are mostly disc only. I suppose I can live with that in spite of the fact I've been anti-disc for my entire life. I'm ready to take the plunge there, but I can give up my weight weenie ways. My bike, with Fox fork and discs needs to come in under 23 lbs.

    So what's the current weight weenie gospel on discs. From what I've read on this board over the years, the B4-SL's are no more. Is this true? If so, then what? Oh, btw - the things have got to work well too. This is why I'm going Fox over SID - they're worth the weight penalty.
    Ok, tell us, die-hard retro pro-hardtail partisans, what you really think of a fs xc bike, after some serious riding. i have a spare al. hardtail where i may pull all the parts to a new xc fs frame (Kona, Specialized, Giant or Santa Cruz). even if i get a xc fs bike, i'd never part with my steel hardtail (can't just have one mt. bike...what if it's stolen or is in the shop or you have a guest). anyways, i'm also considering getting Kona Coiler fr fs bike and a Boxxer fork later for dhr...like for the 2005 Downieville DH race (i'll race my steel hardtail on the XC race)

    magura marta sl are among the the lightest (320 grams per set) that seems to have a sold reputation, even lighter than my hope mini mono (375 advertised, 400 grams for real)
    Last edited by TrailNut; 12-30-2004 at 11:11 AM.
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  3. #3
    jonny_mac
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    you aren't

    going to get a fs with disc and a fox fork under 23 lbs unless you go
    with some really crazy light and expensive components.

  4. #4
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    ... and if we just ... But you will...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny_mac
    going to get a fs with disc and a fox fork under 23 lbs unless you go
    with some really crazy light and expensive components.
    Be much faster and less fatigued, and your brakes will actually work in snow and muck. Also, girls won't think that you are a neanderthal on an ancient rig!

  5. #5
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    I agree it's going to be hard to get a FS with a Fox shock under 23.

    My medium 2002 FSR s-works with Sid is hovering around 23 on multiple scales. with a solid influx of cash I'm hoping to throw off the last 1/4 pound to break the 23 pound mark.

    02 FSR S-Works (pushed)
    02 Sid SL
    Sram 9.0sl shift/Der
    XTR F Der
    American Classic Cranks / Ti BB
    American Classic Disc Wheelset
    Magura Martas w/AL Rotors
    Control tech road stem
    Easton EC90 flat bars
    Thompson post, Flight TT saddle
    Egg Beater originals
    Conti Twister Supersonics, Greenlight Tubes

    Shane

  6. #6
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Sweet spot of weight should be a bit higher IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    So I'm finally, after over a decade of being a pro-hardtail partisan, going to abandon my stupid light hardtail for a dual squishy. Unfortunately, the frames I'm looking at are mostly disc only. I suppose I can live with that in spite of the fact I've been anti-disc for my entire life. I'm ready to take the plunge there, but I can give up my weight weenie ways. My bike, with Fox fork and discs needs to come in under 23 lbs.

    So what's the current weight weenie gospel on discs. From what I've read on this board over the years, the B4-SL's are no more. Is this true? If so, then what? Oh, btw - the things have got to work well too. This is why I'm going Fox over SID - they're worth the weight penalty.
    As Johnny_mac notes, under 23 lbs will be very tough especially since you want a bike that "works".

    I recently completed a light XC FS build (2 weeks ago) and like you, I did not want girly-man parts such as the SID for the sake of a few grams. I opted to not go with the Fox and actually returned a F80RLT for the new Marz Marathon Race and am stoked that I did. I like Fox forks ok (have had more than 1) but much prefer Marz, period. This new Marz Race is turning out to be a sweet fork and much more robust than a SID so I am very happy with my choice.

    Back to your question.....brakes. I went with Magura Marta SLs and love them (I have ridden many brakes/models). I suppose the only potential downside that I can think of is that if you run gripshift SRAM stuff and have smaller than average hands, lever reach may be frustrating given the size/geometry of the SL carbon lever. I am running SRAM X.0 shifters and do not have a problem at all but figured I would mention this because I can imagine that if my hands were smaller it may not be a good match with the X.0 shifters. They are not even broken in yet and I am really impressed.

    In terms of your complete bike, I would suggest that you may want to focus on 24 lbs as the sweet spot target weight since again, you want a bike that will actually work on the trail. Cost is not the issue at all but rather, with a FS rig, under 23 will require at least some girly-manish parts which during my build, were definitely off-limits given my riding style.

    For what it is worth, my FS XC bike came in at 23.5 pounds which is awesome in my opinion (perhaps closer to 24 assuming some measurement error at the shop). Regardless, there is no way I could have built a lighter bike that would have worked for me and I spared no expense so again, I do not think cost is really the issue but rather the robustness of parts you want.

    The places where I could have saved weight but at the expense of robustness and were simply not an option for my riding style are the fork (could have gone with SID), brakes (could have saved some grams with v-brakes), wheelset (could have gone silly-light and regretted it on the first ride).......other less considerable weight saving could have been with my bar (could have gone flat bar...no way Jose), saddle (no thanks), pedal (could have gone with silly triple Ti stuff....no thanks) and some other minor things.

    I would not change a thing and am SO GLAD I went with every single part I did.

    Cheers

  7. #7
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    Good job! Third vote for Martas

    I have had Marta SLs in my Specialized Enduro for one season now and I'm really impressed! I previously had Shimano Deore 525s and while they are great brakes for the buck, the Martas are from the another planet. The power and modulation is superior to Shimano brakes - both on dry and wet. I've also tried few Hayes models and liked the Maguras better.
    I also got the regular Martas for my girlfriend's Epic and they work flawlessly as well. I like more of the carbon lever of the SL's because my hands are large and the levers are quite burly. They are not that good for smaller hands, but there's a receipe for that - the regular Marta!

    If I couldn't buy Martas/Marta SLs, then my choice would be either Hope Mono Mini, Hayes El Camino or Formulas new Oro.

  8. #8
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    Go Marta SL Patch.........

    Anyone weigh the El Camino's yet? Or are they still not out???


    - I think you can get to 23 fairly easy, heck my Large XTR Disc/Mav 317 Blur w/ Easton Carbon Bar, Seatpost, WTB Shadow V Ti seat, Marz Marathon SL, Ritchey WCS Stem, King Headset, Oury Grips and Twin Ti Eggs was nearly 24 EVEN with Kenda Karma DTC's with Specialized Turbo tubes........

    Get a Scott Strike, XTR Disc kit and build a wheelset with Stans Olympic rims and you should be REAL close.....

    Have Fun!!!
    Last edited by DMFT; 12-30-2004 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Addition........

  9. #9
    Max
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    the B4 SL are still available, but i wouldnt recommend them. i used to have the 2001 golden B4s, and later the 2003 B4 Pro. they sucked most of the time: fragile, air got into the system, and once i had a problem with the lever only slowly coming back to its original position. the new Oros on the other hand are great. IMHO they perform as well, if not better, than the martas. great modulation (even on the edge of performance) paired with massive power. i love them


    Skinny guys fight 'til they're burger

  10. #10
    The Riddler
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    magura marta sl vote here. i have avg. size hands and only had to dial back the lever a little bit to get the levers a little bit more close to the bar, using xo grip shifters. take the time to set them up correctly, get the right tension in the skewers (something that seems very important on these brakes) and youve got an awesome brake thats lightweight and backed by the best people in the biz. awesome.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT
    Go Marta SL Patch.........

    Anyone weigh the El Camino's yet? Or are they still not out???


    - I think you can get to 23 fairly easy, heck my Large XTR Disc/Mav 317 Blur w/ Easton Carbon Bar, Seatpost, WTB Shadow V Ti seat, Marz Marathon SL, Ritchey WCS Stem, King Headset, Oury Grips and Twin Ti Eggs was nearly 24 EVEN with Kenda Karma DTC's with Specialized Turbo tubes........

    Get a Scott Strike, XTR Disc kit and build a wheelset with Stans Olympic rims and you should be REAL close.....

    Have Fun!!!
    I vote for martas as well. El Camino's didn't impress me at interbike. They felt like slop(loose levers)

  12. #12
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    How about a Super Light with V's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    So I'm finally, after over a decade of being a pro-hardtail partisan, going to abandon my stupid light hardtail for a dual squishy. Unfortunately, the frames I'm looking at are mostly disc only. I suppose I can live with that in spite of the fact I've been anti-disc for my entire life. I'm ready to take the plunge there, but I can give up my weight weenie ways. My bike, with Fox fork and discs needs to come in under 23 lbs.

    So what's the current weight weenie gospel on discs. From what I've read on this board over the years, the B4-SL's are no more. Is this true? If so, then what? Oh, btw - the things have got to work well too. This is why I'm going Fox over SID - they're worth the weight penalty.
    I think that will be my next purchase, Speedgoat's got them for 999.00 with a 5TH element or 949.00 with a RP3.

    Patch, what's your thoughts on this old design with a new style shock?

    Here is what I'm thinking,
    a plushie to ride with my slower freinds,
    and the light HT to keep up with my faster friends and to race.


    Anyway I will NEVER get rid of my trusty light hardtail UNLESS I clock myself faster on all my favorite loops with the plushie, which I seriously doubt will happen.

  13. #13
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    patchito i'm convinced that you could achieve sub 23 lbs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    So I'm finally, after over a decade of being a pro-hardtail partisan, going to abandon my stupid light hardtail for a dual squishy. Unfortunately, the frames I'm looking at are mostly disc only. I suppose I can live with that in spite of the fact I've been anti-disc for my entire life. I'm ready to take the plunge there, but I can give up my weight weenie ways. My bike, with Fox fork and discs needs to come in under 23 lbs.

    So what's the current weight weenie gospel on discs. From what I've read on this board over the years, the B4-SL's are no more. Is this true? If so, then what? Oh, btw - the things have got to work well too. This is why I'm going Fox over SID - they're worth the weight penalty.


    with an 05 trek fuel 100 110 oclv with xtr discs and conti twister ss tyres.
    i have a 02 fuel 100 front triangle with a 04 rear carbon triangle with lightweight parts weighing in at 23.5 lbs with conti explorer ss tyres, have you looked at some of the fs bikes in light-bikes.com

  14. #14
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    Define crazy light.

    I agree with expensive, but "crazy light" is pretty subjective. In general, lighter riders can safely ride lighter parts. I weigh about 165 lbs and put many miles on a very trail worthy Truth that weighed 22.5 pounds. I didn't have any problems due to the use of light parts except perhaps a BB spindle. Even with a Fox fork, it would have been well under 23. Definitely not cheap, but not necessarily super expensive either if you choose your parts wisely and shop around (sometimes I did, other times I did not). If you're much over 180 lbs., I doubt you'll achieve all of your goals.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    I agree with expensive, but "crazy light" is pretty subjective. In general, lighter riders can safely ride lighter parts. I weigh about 165 lbs and put many miles on a very trail worthy Truth that weighed 22.5 pounds. I didn't have any problems due to the use of light parts except perhaps a BB spindle. Even with a Fox fork, it would have been well under 23. Definitely not cheap, but not necessarily super expensive either if you choose your parts wisely and shop around (sometimes I did, other times I did not). If you're much over 180 lbs., I doubt you'll achieve all of your goals.

    What are your build parts?

  16. #16
    Trying to find Flow
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Nazi
    I think that will be my next purchase, Speedgoat's got them for 999.00 with a 5TH element or 949.00 with a RP3.

    Patch, what's your thoughts on this old design with a new style shock?

    Here is what I'm thinking,
    a plushie to ride with my slower freinds,
    and the light HT to keep up with my faster friends and to race.


    Anyway I will NEVER get rid of my trusty light hardtail UNLESS I clock myself faster on all my favorite loops with the plushie, which I seriously doubt will happen.

    Oh no, unfortunately, I never get rid of bikes. I've now got five with another frame and misc parts in the garage. Thing is, I want to get a dualie to go faster, so it's gotta be able to climb too. I'll keep my stupid light C'Dale for hillclimb competitions and such.

    For race oriented xc dualies, I'm currently leaning towards a Kona The King or a Salsa Caballero. The Maverick's in the hunt too, but it's pricier and edging up towards 6 lbs. for the frame. The King gets down below the magic 5 lb. barrier for dualie frame weights. Dream bike is the new Yeti ASR-SL with the carbon stays, but my rule is that my bike can't be worth more than my car. Besides, I feel better about giving the guys over at The Path my dough for a bike. They're great.

    I haven't ruled out the Santa Cruz, but it's not one I'm really thinking about either. Like I said, I'm basing my choice heaviliy on the recommendations of Tani at The Path, but also don't the same bike everyone else rides. That's why I prolly won't go with the Intense Spider. Sweet bike, advanced suspension design...light, but everyone I know has 'em, practically.

    I didn't know you raced, BN. Doin' Vision Quest?

  17. #17
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    Hope mono mini?

    Why nobody would mention Hope Mono Mini?

    They are almost $130 cheaper than Martas SL, and it's a good start because you can always invest some more later and drop weight later by replacing original bolts with AL/TI ones.

  18. #18
    Trying to find Flow
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    I agree with expensive, but "crazy light" is pretty subjective. In general, lighter riders can safely ride lighter parts. I weigh about 165 lbs and put many miles on a very trail worthy Truth that weighed 22.5 pounds. I didn't have any problems due to the use of light parts except perhaps a BB spindle. Even with a Fox fork, it would have been well under 23. Definitely not cheap, but not necessarily super expensive either if you choose your parts wisely and shop around (sometimes I did, other times I did not). If you're much over 180 lbs., I doubt you'll achieve all of your goals.

    I can get away with lighter wheels fo sho. I weigh 'bout 150. I actually was hoping I could get a V-brake compatible frame so I could keep my Am Classics/Valiant/Revo wheelset. It hasn't given me any troubles.

  19. #19
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    Great advice, people. Thanks.

    Good heads up on the Marathon. I'd forgotten about that one. I have a Fox on my singlespeed and love it so far, so I thought I'd stick with it.

    I do have smaller sized hands, but the advice on setup for the Martas is duly noted. I also plan to go with XO shifters.

  20. #20
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    Everybody races patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    Oh no, unfortunately, I never get rid of bikes. I've now got five with another frame and misc parts in the garage. Thing is, I want to get a dualie to go faster, so it's gotta be able to climb too. I'll keep my stupid light C'Dale for hillclimb competitions and such.

    For race oriented xc dualies, I'm currently leaning towards a Kona The King or a Salsa Caballero. The Maverick's in the hunt too, but it's pricier and edging up towards 6 lbs. for the frame. The King gets down below the magic 5 lb. barrier for dualie frame weights. Dream bike is the new Yeti ASR-SL with the carbon stays, but my rule is that my bike can't be worth more than my car. Besides, I feel better about giving the guys over at The Path my dough for a bike. They're great.

    I haven't ruled out the Santa Cruz, but it's not one I'm really thinking about either. Like I said, I'm basing my choice heaviliy on the recommendations of Tani at The Path, but also don't the same bike everyone else rides. That's why I prolly won't go with the Intense Spider. Sweet bike, advanced suspension design...light, but everyone I know has 'em, practically.

    I didn't know you raced, BN. Doin' Vision Quest?
    sometimes it's just the riding buds or some other bald middle aged guy from a rival riding faction but it all counts, as far as organized races just beginer stuff but I'm going to race once or twice a year in sport starting 2005 until I die to measure my progress or regress.

    Vision quest, no, I have no desire to race that far on a mountain bike.

    As far as bikes go, I wonder if a Marzocchi or Fox on the front end of a good steel or Ti hardtail is the only bike I really need.

  21. #21
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    for the record, i am on board with the marta sl guys. getting a set myself.

    if you really have money to burn, check out stan's aluminum rotors, for $95 a pop, which can be used with magura's stock pads and still shave about half the weight of the rotor (which is rotating weight, another plus). workin off true weights off of weight weenies:

    stock wavy rotor: 109 g
    stan's coating rotor: 57 g (happens to be claimed weight as well as 2 actual weights averaged)
    savings of 52 g per rotor, 104 grams total
    at a cost of $190, thats only .54 grams of weight lost per dollar!

    again, an expensive upgrade, but if you are truly going all out, then why not

  22. #22
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    I agree with expensive, but "crazy light" is pretty subjective. In general, lighter riders can safely ride lighter parts. I weigh about 165 lbs and put many miles on a very trail worthy Truth that weighed 22.5 pounds. I didn't have any problems due to the use of light parts except perhaps a BB spindle. Even with a Fox fork, it would have been well under 23. Definitely not cheap, but not necessarily super expensive either if you choose your parts wisely and shop around (sometimes I did, other times I did not). If you're much over 180 lbs., I doubt you'll achieve all of your goals.
    That is a fair comment. As the poster noted he is only 150lbs your comments are that much more relevant.

    In my email I was coming from the perspective that I am 180lbs and generally ride a Bullit and 6" Ventana and as such, am pretty lazy in my riding style compared to most of you I am sure and am much more clumsy. In turn, need more robust parts but I tell you, it sure feels good to finally have a bike where I dont need the granny gear I really thought I was just out of shape (true to some extent I am sure) and am now a real believer that weight does matter.

    Cheers

  23. #23
    A little of everything
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    Some of my friends have problems with air in their Martha brakes and yes they are expensive. I would go for the Hopr mono mini. You could get the 04 version and buy some of the new stans rotors for it, or you could waut for the 05 version, weight 375g front and 372g rear complete out of the box. Tune them with aluminium bolts and they might be around 340g.

  24. #24
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    With Stan's rotors and lighter tires, it was 22 lbs. even, but below is the configuration I was most satisfied with. I recently sold the 2001 frame, but I have a 2003 frame that is considerably lighter. It would build to 21.25 lbs minimum and right around 22 even with big play tires and a few other parts I've since purchased. That is my wife's frame right now though and I hope to build a hardtail for racing instead. I replaced my 2001 Truth frame with a Maverick American ML7 that's under 24.5 with some fairly portly parts (Float 130, Thomson stuff, big tires, etc.).

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cols=6 rules=groups border=1 frame=void><COLGROUP><COL width=144><COL width=34><COL width=192><COL width=43><COL width=24><COL width=336></COLGROUP><TBODY><TR><TD align=left width=144 height=14>Component</TD><TD align=middle width=34>Year</TD><TD align=left width=192>Model</TD><TD align=middle width=67 colSpan=2 SDNUM="1033;0;0.0">Weight</TD><TD align=left width=336 SDNUM="1033;0;@">Notes</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">bar</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Extralite UltraBar</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="105">105.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">580 mm x 4 degree sweep, no rise, carbon fiber.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>bar ends</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left>Extralite UltraEnds</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="54">54.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Black.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>bottle cage bolts</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2001</TD><TD align=left>SRP</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="2">2.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(2) M5 x 16 mm, alloy.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">bottom bracket</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2004</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">FRM CU2-BB ISIS Al</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="140">140.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">73 x 108 mm.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">brake (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;" SDVAL="2003">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Formula B4SL+</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="194">194.0</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;0.0">g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Lever, line (cut), caliper, bolts (alloy), pads, oil.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">brake (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;" SDVAL="2003">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Formula B4SL+</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="215">215.0</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;0.0">g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Lever, line (cut), caliper, bolts (alloy), pads, oil.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">brake rotor (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;" SDVAL="2003">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Formula B4SL</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="124">124.0</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;0.0">g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">160 mm steel rotor, (6) rotor bolts (steel).</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">brake rotor (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;" SDVAL="2003">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Formula B4SL</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="98">98.0</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;0.0">g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">140 mm steel rotor, (6) rotor bolts (steel).</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>cassette</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left>Shimano XTR CS-M950</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="210">210.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">8 speed (ak = 11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30), including lockring.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">chain</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">SRAM PC89R Hollow Pin</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="250">250.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">104 links, including masterlink, lubed.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>chainring (large)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left>Specialties TA</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="81">81.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">5 bolt @ 94mm, 44 teeth, 7075-T6 aluminum.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>chainring (middle)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left>Specialties TA</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="41">41.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">5 bolt @ 94mm, 34 teeth, 7075-T6 aluminum.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>chainring (small)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left>Specialties TA</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="20">20.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">5 bolt @ 58mm, 22 teeth, 7075-T6 aluminum.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">chainring bolts (inner)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Problem Solvers</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="5">5.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(5) 8 mm, alloy.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">chainring bolts (outer)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Problem Solvers</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="9">9.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(5) 8 mm with nuts, alloy.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>chainstay protector</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2001</TD><TD align=left>THE</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="0">0.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Included in frame.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">computer</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Sigma BC800</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="33">33.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Computer (w/battery), sensor (wired), Shimano spoke magnet.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>crank arms</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left>RaceFace Next LP ISIS</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="401">401.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">175mm, 5 bolt 94/58 mm (compact).</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>crank bolts</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left>FRM</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="21">21.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(2) M12 x 1.0" w/8 mm hex, self-extracting, alloy.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>derailleur (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left>Shimano Deore XT FD-M751</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="138">138.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Clamp type (34.9 mm), bottom swing, top pull.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">derailleur (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">SRAM X.0</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="207">207.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Medium cage, ESP.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>derailleur hanger</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2001</TD><TD align=left>Ellsworth</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="18">18.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">For 2001 Truth, including steel bolt.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">fork</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Noleen MegaAir</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="1400">1400.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">100 mm, 182 mm steerer, brake studs removed.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">frame</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2001</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Ellsworth Truth</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="2356">2356.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Medium, anodized black, brake studs removed.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">grips</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Schwinn Stinger ATB</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="53">53.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Grips (clear, cut), bar end plugs (generic).</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">headset</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2001</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Chris King No Thread Set</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="131">131.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Bearings & cups, top race, crown race, cap & bolt (aluminum).</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>hub (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left>Chris King ISO Disc</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="165">165.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">32 holes, silver.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>hub (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left>Chris King ISO Disc</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="306">306.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">32 holes, silver.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">hub skewer (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Nashbar</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="30">30.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Bolt-on (steel, black), 135 mm.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">hub skewer (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Nashbar</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="35">35.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Bolt-on (steel, black), 145 mm.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">miscellaneous</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">
    </TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">
    </TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="5">5.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Zip ties, grease.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>pedals</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left>Crank Brothers Eggbeater S</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="270">270.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">
    </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">rim (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2004</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Stan's ZTR 355</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="368">368.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">559 x 24 mm, 32 holes, black.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>rim (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2004</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Stan's ZTR 355</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="369">369.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">559 x 24 mm, 32 holes, black.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">saddle</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Selle Italia SLR</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="140">140.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Ti rails, black leather cover.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">seatpost</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">USE Alien Titanium</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="178">178.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">27.2 mm x 350 mm, titanium post.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>seatpost clamp</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left>Extralite UltraClamp</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="12">12.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">31.8 mm, including steel bolt.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>shift cables</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left>Gore RideOn Ultralight</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="60">60.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">
    </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>shifters</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left>SRAM 9.0 Shorty</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="167">167.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">8 speed, w/Amy grips.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>shock</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left>Cane Creek Cloud Nine</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="234">234.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">165 x 38 mm, including valve cap but no spacers.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>shock bolts</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2001</TD><TD align=left>Ellsworth</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="49">49.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(2) stainless steel bolts, aluminum spacers.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">spokes (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Sapim CX-Ray</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="139.555555555556">139.6</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(16) 258 & (16) 260 x 2.3/0.9 mm, stainless steel, black & silver.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">spokes (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Sapim CX-Ray</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="139.555555555556">139.6</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(16) 258 & (16) 260 x 2.3/0.9 mm, stainless steel, black & silver.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">spoke nipples (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Sapim Polyax</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="11.1074380165289">11.1</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(32) 2.0 x 14 mm, aluminum, black & silver.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>spoke nipples (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Sapim Polyax</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="11.1074380165289">11.1</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(32) 2.0 x 14 mm, aluminum, black & silver.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>star-fangled nut</TD><TD align=middle>
    </TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">
    </TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="11">11.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">
    </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">stem</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Extralite UltraStem UL</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="106">106.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">120 mm x 4 degrees, stem, bolts (titanium).</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>stem spacers</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2002</TD><TD align=left>Performance Forte'</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="4">4.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">(2) 1 1/8” x 5 mm, carbon fiber.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">tire (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Nokian NBX Lite</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="490">490.0</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;0.0">g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">559 x 50 mm, 65 tpi, 61 ShA durometer, skinwall, folding.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14 SDNUM="1033;0;@">tire (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Nokian NBX Lite</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="482">482.0</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;0.0">g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">559 x 50 mm, 65 tpi, 61 ShA durometer, skinwall, folding.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>tire seal system (F)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Eclipse A126U</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="125">125.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Rimstrip, valve, tape, 75 grams sealant, air.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left height=14>tire seal system (R)</TD><TD align=middle SDNUM="1033;0;@">2003</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Eclipse A126U</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.0" SDVAL="125">125.0</TD><TD align=left>g</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">Rimstrip, valve, tape, 75 grams sealant, air.</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle colSpan=3 height=14>TOTAL</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.00" SDVAL="10.3383259871442">10.34</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">kg</TD><TD align=left>
    </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle colSpan=3 height=14>TOTAL</TD><TD align=right SDNUM="1033;0;0.00" SDVAL="22.7443171717172">22.74</TD><TD align=left SDNUM="1033;0;@">lbs</TD><TD align=left>
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

  25. #25
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    B4SL where?

    I've been searching for another pair for quite some time. Where are they still available?

  26. #26
    sadly, like the element
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    Until this...
    _
    frame 2001 Ellsworth Truth 2356.0 g Medium, anodized black, brake studs removed.

    ...breaks at the seat tube like quite a few have. That's the only real concern I'd have for you.

  27. #27
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    I sold that frame.

    It had over 5,000 miles on it. I did have 2 swingarms crack. The last replacement was quite a bit thicker in the area that cracked. I like the ML7 better although it has not been trouble free either. I am really looking forward to getting a hardtail so I can ride more and work on my bikes less!

  28. #28
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    Skullamn

    Skullman-
    Just wondering how you like the PUSH work done to your 02 Sworks. I plan to make that very change to my Large 02 Sworks FSR. I have it down to 23.5 w/ disks - but I still have some heavy parts (ie. Thompson Stem).
    I too live in MN - ride mostly at Elk River.

  29. #29
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    Just a q about forks: has anyone tried the WB XC .8. Not the most adjustable or gadgety fork, but it looks like it might be good.

  30. #30
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    Bump

    Quote Originally Posted by jtc1
    Skullman-
    Just wondering how you like the PUSH work done to your 02 Sworks. I plan to make that very change to my Large 02 Sworks FSR. I have it down to 23.5 w/ disks - but I still have some heavy parts (ie. Thompson Stem).
    I too live in MN - ride mostly at Elk River.
    Also wondering about the pushing on the 02 S-Works. I have a medium that I was thinking about doing that with. By the way, I honestly think this is one of the greatest FS frames ever made. I've ridden the S-Works epic that everyone raves about, and go faster on the 2002. Epic flexes alot more in the rear

    Mines down below 23, but I have v-brakes and a SID carbon fork.

  31. #31
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    02 Sworks

    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery
    Also wondering about the pushing on the 02 S-Works. I have a medium that I was thinking about doing that with. By the way, I honestly think this is one of the greatest FS frames ever made. I've ridden the S-Works epic that everyone raves about, and go faster on the 2002. Epic flexes alot more in the rear

    Mines down below 23, but I have v-brakes and a SID carbon fork.

    I too have sid carbon. I agree - I owned a Sworks Epic and was never faster than I was on my '02 - even after many specific time tests. Further, I worked much harder to go fast on the Epic. Odd - but true, at least in my case on the tight single track courses I ride.
    My thought is to get the bike down below 23 with disks and PUSH the rear shock and I think I will have a solid race platform for another year or two. (Though the Turner Nitous does have my attention). DT Swiss is making a light rear shock with stable platform tech - not sure if they make one to fit 02 Sworks or not.

  32. #32
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    My thoughts for lightening

    Quote Originally Posted by jtc1
    I too have sid carbon. I agree - I owned a Sworks Epic and was never faster than I was on my '02 - even after many specific time tests. Further, I worked much harder to go fast on the Epic. Odd - but true, at least in my case on the tight single track courses I ride.
    My thought is to get the bike down below 23 with disks and PUSH the rear shock and I think I will have a solid race platform for another year or two. (Though the Turner Nitous does have my attention). DT Swiss is making a light rear shock with stable platform tech - not sure if they make one to fit 02 Sworks or not.

    I'm thinking of replacing all the suspension bolts, theres a damm lot of them. The bolt at the bottom of the shock is bent on mine a bit anyway, but I bet with all Ti bolts the frame could drop quite a few grams.

  33. #33
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    Bolts

    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery
    I'm thinking of replacing all the suspension bolts, theres a damm lot of them. The bolt at the bottom of the shock is bent on mine a bit anyway, but I bet with all Ti bolts the frame could drop quite a few grams.
    Be careful there - the big S spec'd our bikes with Ti bolts in several locations. Many people have broken their shock bolts when using Ti. I think our frames at close to 6lbs are fairly heavy by todays standards.

  34. #34
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    2450g according to weightweenies, thats more like 5.37 lbs and not incredibly light, but lighter than most. Figure with all Ti bolts could drop that to around 100g.

  35. #35
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    bolts

    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery
    2450g according to weightweenies, thats more like 5.37 lbs and not incredibly light, but lighter than most. Figure with all Ti bolts could drop that to around 100g.
    Let me know how that goes as I will do something similar if it works out. I had thought we already had ti bolts at most rear suspension pivots.

  36. #36
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    I doubt it, not like something for specialized to spec, but I'll call them monday and ask and see what kind they used

  37. #37
    Ole
    Ole is offline
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    My Spider is 22lbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    Intense Spider. Sweet bike, advanced suspension design...light, but everyone I know has 'em, practically.
    My Large red Spider weigs 22lbs with Skareb fork, Intense tires and Formula disc brakes. When the new Extralite disc hubs are out, I'll get it down to 21.5lbs. If I were to put on a SID and silly tires it would be down to 20lbs. But unless RockShox replaces the horrible Pure Damper with something better on the SID, the Skareb stays. And I'm not silly enough for silly tires...

    If you get a polished Spider, you'll save almost 100g right there. Put that weight back into a more durable BB (I use the AC ISIS at 147g), and you've still got 400g for other strong parts before you break the 23lb mark.

    Ole.

  38. #38
    Mashers Only!!
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    Hey Patchito...
    Have not seen ya for a while!! I just built a new bike for this years race season. Yes it's geared and yes it's full squishey. I wen't with an 05 S WORKS EPIC frame and built it up Hugh style. I wen't with the Marta SLs. They rock. Stupid light. I have about 200 miles on them so far with no problems. The last three rides have been in the rain and mud (30 to 40 miles each) with no problems. Rock solid feel and great modulation. They got my vote. I think the Seven is going to get some this week also.
    Hope this helps.

    HUGH

  39. #39
    (aka SS_MB-7)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    So I'm finally, after over a decade of being a pro-hardtail partisan, going to abandon my stupid light hardtail for a dual squishy. Unfortunately, the frames I'm looking at are mostly disc only. I suppose I can live with that in spite of the fact I've been anti-disc for my entire life. I'm ready to take the plunge there, but I can give up my weight weenie ways. My bike, with Fox fork and discs needs to come in under 23 lbs.

    So what's the current weight weenie gospel on discs. From what I've read on this board over the years, the B4-SL's are no more. Is this true? If so, then what? Oh, btw - the things have got to work well too. This is why I'm going Fox over SID - they're worth the weight penalty.
    I'll throw-in my vote for the Magura Marta SLs. I've got a set on both my MTBs (SS and RX-100) and they are both great. Both sets weighed-in at just over 700g/pair (704g and 706g, respectively) and, that's including everything (fully bled, uncut lines, all hardware, rotors, bolts, etc.)

    I've been going through brakes pretty quickly over the years (Hope C2 Pros, Hope Minis, Hope Mono Minis, Formula B4s, Formula B4 SLs, Formula B4 SL+s, Shimano XTR/XT and now the Martas SLs). But, I don't foresee changing my Marta SLs anytime soon, and for me, that's speaks volumes!

    Compared to the Formula B4 SLs (631g/pair) and B4 SL+s (699g/pair) (both of which are now longer being made), the Marta SLs are pretty close in terms of modulation (slight edge to the Formulas) and power (big advantage to the Marta SLs).

    But, the big difference for me is in terms of reliability and durability. I had some issues with the Formulas (all of which were quickly-and-painlessly handled by Thorsten), but the Martas have been fantastic. Although, I did have an unexplainable issue with my rear Marta SLs during the TransRockies that I couldn't resolve, even with a bleed during the race. Oddly enough, once home after the race, the rear brake returned to itself. In corresponding with Jimi at Magura, best we could figure was something happened to the brake during the flight out West, but since the brake is now fine, I haven't bothered to pursue it....just a FYI.

    Aesthetically, the Marta SLs are the cat's-ass! Carbon lever, wavy rotor, etc. It is just a really nice looking brake that works damn well. All-in-all, I love my Martas!
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  40. #40
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    I wouldn't recommend the kona...

    Quote Originally Posted by Patchito
    leaning towards a Kona The King
    I know i'm a bit offtopic...


    But I raced a King Kikapu in 2003(same bike as the king, but not in scandium) and although it's not a bad bike, I wouldn't reccommend it.

    First thing, the rear suspension isn't really good. I played quite a bit with the shock pressure, but the bike was bobbing a lot, even at stupid high pressures, and the suspension action wasn't particularly smooth compared to something like a spec FSR...

    Second, I found the rear triangle particularly flimsy and flexy, even under my 150 lb frame... I broke the rear chainstay after 5 month of riding, and I used the bike only for XC racing/training, and did nothing too extreme with it...

    oh, and racing a kona voids its warranty (and the bike is labelled as a xc RACING bike in the catalog..... )


    Heres a pic of the crack..

  41. #41
    Whatever
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    What about Magura Marta's (no SL)?

    I"ve got about 15 months with no problems on 2004 Magura Marta's. As long as you get '04 or '05 models, they come with the SL rotor, are 6 grams heavier than the SL's, and save $100-150 depending on where you get them. They are the same caliper and lever assembly, just an aluminum lever instead of the carbon. And black instead of pewter.

    Then put that money into a pair of Twin Ti Egg Beaters!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MINImtnbiker
    I"ve got about 15 months with no problems on 2004 Magura Marta's. As long as you get '04 or '05 models, they come with the SL rotor, are 6 grams heavier than the SL's, and save $100-150 depending on where you get them. They are the same caliper and lever assembly, just an aluminum lever instead of the carbon. And black instead of pewter.

    Then put that money into a pair of Twin Ti Egg Beaters!

    The marta SL lever is differnt i believe. The resvoir is smaller is what i'v eheard. The levers aren't compatable with each other (ie. you can't use sl levervs with a non sl calipers)

  43. #43
    inner peace to make peace
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    better get steel

    Quote Originally Posted by XCRDR
    I know i'm a bit offtopic...


    But I raced a King Kikapu in 2003(same bike as the king, but not in scandium) and although it's not a bad bike, I wouldn't reccommend it.

    First thing, the rear suspension isn't really good. I played quite a bit with the shock pressure, but the bike was bobbing a lot, even at stupid high pressures, and the suspension action wasn't particularly smooth compared to something like a spec FSR...

    Second, I found the rear triangle particularly flimsy and flexy, even under my 150 lb frame... I broke the rear chainstay after 5 month of riding, and I used the bike only for XC racing/training, and did nothing too extreme with it...

    oh, and racing a kona voids its warranty (and the bike is labelled as a xc RACING bike in the catalog..... )


    Heres a pic of the crack..
    for xc racing, try retro with a light steel or titanium frame
    and then a Koan Coiler or Stinky for all-mountain/freeriding
    “Everyday is a good day,” from the Blue Cliff Records, Yun-men (864-949 AD).

  44. #44
    Whatever
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    Nope, they're identical

    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    The marta SL lever is differnt i believe. The resvoir is smaller is what i'v eheard. The levers aren't compatable with each other (ie. you can't use sl levervs with a non sl calipers)
    I made sure to check with Magura when I bought them. They're exactly the same except for color and carbon vs. aluminum lever. I could upgrade to carbon levers for $130 to save 12 grams. Hoses, reservoir, rotors, are all the same.

    BTW, I also use aluminum bolts for the levers to connect to the bars, and mix 3 Ti bolts with 3 steel bolts for the rotors.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MINImtnbiker
    I made sure to check with Magura when I bought them. They're exactly the same except for color and carbon vs. aluminum lever. I could upgrade to carbon levers for $130 to save 12 grams. Hoses, reservoir, rotors, are all the same.

    BTW, I also use aluminum bolts for the levers to connect to the bars, and mix 3 Ti bolts with 3 steel bolts for the rotors.
    Interesting, i could've sworn i read somewhere they weren't but if magura said they were then i suppose its right.

  46. #46
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    Stick with v's and your hardtail.....FS and discs are for tech weenies and who spend more time wrenching than riding.

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