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  1. #1
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    Disc Rim: Alex XCR Pro Scandium - 315g

    I got these nice rims:

    Alex XCR Pro Scandium
    eyelets (!!)
    32-hole
    315g

    I was able to weigh 20 pcs. and got the lightest samples for myself
    the lightest ones were around 315g, most around 319-321g and one weighed 327g. The finish is just perfect. the weld is hardly visible at all.

    outer width: 23,3mm
    inner width: 18,5mm

    I will lace them to some no-Name hubs and try them on my winterbike. The hubs are lighter than some DT240 and alltogether the wheelset should be around 1300g. i hoped for 1250g but since the rims came with eyelets they got about 15g per rim heavier. i am glad they have eyelets though as building the wheels is much easier. the next hubset i will lace these rims to will be my old Amclassic hubs which then should closely reach the 1270g mark.we will see...

    there's still plenty of stickers all around the rims so a couple of grams could be saved by removing them as well.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by nino; 11-21-2008 at 10:42 AM.

  2. #2
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    In what pricerange are these rims? Are they cheaper/more expensive then Notubes?

  3. #3
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    $200 pair on the bay.

  4. #4
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    no name hubs....lol

    after 2 weeks of ride...




    good luck

  5. #5
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    Weights seem pretty consistent, and these seem like a good chance to build pretty light wheels without spending a fortune. I'll probably wait to hear reviews but hope to grab some early next year. Glad that they are close to claimed.

  6. #6
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    I thought they do not have eyelets

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Alex-Rim-Scandiu...742.m153.l1262

    Is then there an option when you buy them? To buy with eyelets or without eyelets?

  7. #7
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    That Rim profile looks VERY similar to Stans No bead hook design in my opinion. That'll be interresting to see how long those last.

  8. #8
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    3mm tall bead hook or what a heck do you call that. it seems very small to hold a tire in place.... wide tires will be a problem on these rims.

  9. #9
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    Ha will stan's sue them too?... JK.
    A bit wider than stans too... Interested to hear about their strength

  10. #10
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    What about a V-brake option?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery
    A bit wider than stans too...
    not so.

    ZTR RACE inside cavity 21.4mm - nino said these are 18.5

    width adds a lot of stability to the ride of a tire at low pressure.

  12. #12
    El Toro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zigo
    What about a V-brake option?
    this is the profile:



    so, removing stickers, do you think could be used for rim brakes?? (the V brake version does NOT exist)


  13. #13
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    Its a small rim width, it will not add stability to the tires, compared to wider rims.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmix
    this is the profile:



    so, removing stickers, do you think could be used for rim brakes?? (the V brake version does NOT exist)

    I would say no. V brake rims' brake track is usually machined after welding of the rim to remove any lateral run out. Also I believe V brake rims require stronger side walls and some have internal bracing to prevent the collapse of the brake track.

  15. #15
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    A friend scooped a set; weighed em at school for 299g ea untouched.

    His rims are holding out solid, he beats em worse than I beat my stuff. DT240s hubs, I can't remember what they weighed put together. Light rims for sure.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ettore
    A friend scooped a set; weighed em at school for 299g ea untouched.

    His rims are holding out solid, he beats em worse than I beat my stuff. DT240s hubs, I can't remember what they weighed put together. Light rims for sure.

    299 grams...do his rims have eyelets? Does he run them tubeless? If so, what rim stip does he use? I'm wondering if these can be used tubeless via Stan's yellow tape. Thanks

  17. #17
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    The rims in the original Alex XCR Pro rim thread that mentioned these were eyelet free, and that was likely part of the reason that had a limited weight capacity. The eyelets would explain the weight difference.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by seven-22
    299 grams...do his rims have eyelets? Does he run them tubeless? If so, what rim stip does he use? I'm wondering if these can be used tubeless via Stan's yellow tape. Thanks
    most probably no eyelets. Eyelets add about 15-20g per rim.

  19. #19
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    These look very interesting, do you have their ERD? I couldn't find it anywhere...

    Anyway, Nino keep us posted how they hold up

  20. #20
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    His have eyelets, but he doesn't run them tubeless (last I saw the wheels, anyways).

  21. #21
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    Nino's rim as you can see have Eyelets hence the extra 15g

    The above pic with the red background looking at the rim towards the background can be seen not to have eyelets hence the sub 300g weight.

    It will be interresting to see how long they last as there smack bang inbetween the Olympic Rim and the Race Rims yet appear to have a similar rim profile/design - although who knows how long this will last going by the current lawsuit.

  22. #22
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    I disagree that the Alex XCR Pro cross section is similar to the Notubes Bead Hook type...

    Alex XCR Pro Rim. Notice that there is a greater flat section before the hook starts


    Now compare with Notubes cross sections. Notice there is very little flat section. Which Stan's claims is what gives tires their extra volume and greater contact patch.


    A good question to ask is how would the two compare in terms of lateral stiffness.

  23. #23
    cmh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    I disagree that the Alex XCR Pro cross section is similar to the Notubes Bead Hook type...

    Alex XCR Pro Rim. Notice that there is a greater flat section before the hook starts


    Now compare with Notubes cross sections. Notice there is very little flat section. Which Stan's claims is what gives tires their extra volume and greater contact patch.


    A good question to ask is how would the two compare in terms of lateral stiffness.
    Another question is if you run tubeless -- the Stan's design can be run with just yellow tape, for a couple of grams penalty. These Alex rims would probably need the rubber rim strips, all of mine are 60g each. That'll even things out -- might even tip the tables back.

    Dunno if other, lighter tubeless conversions are available, or would work with these...

  24. #24
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    If you are going to run a tubeless conversion using non UST tires, I do not see why anyone would use anything other than stan's notubes rims. It is not like the Alex XCR Pro rims are cheap. They are more expensive that ZTR Olympics...

  25. #25
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    tubeless vs. tubes....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    If you are going to run a tubeless conversion using non UST tires, I do not see why anyone would use anything other than stan's notubes rims. It is not like the Alex XCR Pro rims are cheap. They are more expensive that ZTR Olympics...
    i am currently using prototype inner-tubes which offer lighter weight AND puncture protection at the same time on my Scale. At the same time i am running lightweight Conti Tubes on my winterbike using the same Conti raceking 2.2 tires where i get flats at least every other ride i have 5 (!!) repairs on my front tube alone...3 on the rear. i used tubelesskits for the last 7 1/2 years with maybe 3 flats total over that period. it's a whole new experience to get flats again. not that i like it but it just shows that i have forgotten how much those inner tubes $ucked.

    if i would run tubeless i would use the 20g Eclipse rimstrips anyway. The Eclipse kits weighs 35g per wheel (rimstrip+valves). But correct - that's still heavier than Stan's yellow tape for sure.

    But as mentioned i am running tubes that might make tubelesskits obsolete anyway

    still no more details on the tubes but rest assured they are the BOMB!!

    i expected to get the wheelset saturday but it turned out they didn't even have started with the build....oh-well.hopefully mid this week but we have snow right now so riding is limited anyway.

    These rims are lighter than Stans Olympics and come with eyelets which is a big plus for any wheelbuilder and also for the long term.Alloy nippels tend to seize in non-eyeletted rims and also make tensioning less easy. I have to admit i was not expecting eyelets as well but i really like them now. my wheelbuilder had a big smile...
    Last edited by nino; 11-24-2008 at 12:21 AM.

  26. #26
    Ole
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    I've been building hundreds of wheels on the various NoTubes rims since they first came out, and the lack of eyelets have given me zero problems during building or truing. On any rim without eyelets, it's important to remove the sharp edges on the inside of the nipple holes, I do this with a Philips screewdriver bit and an electric screwdriver. A drop of oil on nipple/rim interface before tightening, and everything is super smooth.


    Ole.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    still no more details on the tubes but rest assured they are the BOMB!!
    I hope they cost under $20.

    It is odd that there are no good advances in the tube technology recently. Plenty of interesting materials out there...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    i am currently using prototype inner-tubes which offer lighter weight AND puncture protection at the same time on my Scale. At the same time i am running lightweight Conti Tubes on my winterbike using the same Conti raceking 2.2 tires where i get flats at least every other ride i have 5 (!!) repairs on my front tube alone...3 on the rear. i used tubelesskits for the last 7 1/2 years with maybe 3 flats total over that period. it's a whole new experience to get flats again. not that i like it but it just shows that i have forgotten how much those inner tubes $ucked.

    if i would run tubeless i would use the 20g Eclipse rimstrips anyway. The Eclipse kits weighs 35g per wheel (rimstrip+valves). But correct - that's still heavier than Stan's yellow tape for sure.

    But as mentioned i am running tubes that might make tubelesskits obsolete anyway

    still no more details on the tubes but rest assured they are the BOMB!!

    i expected to get the wheelset saturday but it turned out they didn't even have started with the build....oh-well.hopefully mid this week but we have snow right now so riding is limited anyway.

    These rims are lighter than Stans Olympics and come with eyelets which is a big plus for any wheelbuilder and also for the long term.Alloy nippels tend to seize in non-eyeletted rims and also make tensioning less easy. I have to admit i was not expecting eyelets as well but i really like them now. my wheelbuilder had a big smile...
    Are these new tubes butyl?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    If you are going to run a tubeless conversion using non UST tires, I do not see why anyone would use anything other than stan's notubes rims. It is not like the Alex XCR Pro rims are cheap. They are more expensive that ZTR Olympics...
    At the point of $/gram weight savings most of us are already at, the Alex rims are an extremely compelling option versus the ZTR Olympics. I don't want to pay $1000 for a Race version of Stan's wheels, only to get American Classic hubs. I can potentially build a wheel with hubs of my choice, on rims of almost equal weight with these, for far cheaper. If the rim hook does a decent job of grabbing on to non-UST tires converted to tubeless, then it's almost a no-brainer. If not, then we'll have to see if Nino's new tube product stacks up.

  30. #30
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    Found out why my buddy's wheels are light(er):

    When he bought them, he threw them on his work's lathe and machined off the sides. I am not 100% sure why, but I know he has like 4 sets so maybe these were the "heavy" ones and he wanted to play around. Explains why his looked different than the examples on this site. He said he machined the hole surface as well since I have seen them, and they don't have the eyelets anymore.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    At the point of $/gram weight savings most of us are already at, the Alex rims are an extremely compelling option versus the ZTR Olympics. I don't want to pay $1000 for a Race version of Stan's wheels, only to get American Classic hubs. I can potentially build a wheel with hubs of my choice, on rims of almost equal weight with these, for far cheaper. If the rim hook does a decent job of grabbing on to non-UST tires converted to tubeless, then it's almost a no-brainer. If not, then we'll have to see if Nino's new tube product stacks up.
    Considering these rims are going for around 100 per rim you are not really saving too much if you are comparing a custom set of wheels using Alex XCR Pro rims to Stan's ZTR Race.

    The Stan's ZTR Race costs 950 USD, and comes in at 1210 grams w/ the presta valve and yellow tape installed. Both of which I'm estimating at 14 grams per wheel. So the real weight of the ZTR Race wheels is around 1182g.

    To get 1182 g w/ Alex XCR wheels:

    -Alex XCR Wheels 300g, $100 per rim (assuming you go with the non eyelet version)
    -Dtswiss 1.8 revolutions 3.96g per spoke, $1.90 per spoke (assume 254mm spoke length)
    -Aluminum nipples, .30g per nipple, $0.25 per nipple.

    Two Rims + 64 spokes + 64 nipples = 2($100) + 64($1.90) + 64($.25)
    Sub total cost = $337.60 USD
    Sub Total weight = 872.64g

    Total Amount of money left for F & R hub = $950 - $337.60 = $612.40 USD
    Weight allowed for F & R hub = 1182g - 872.64g = 309.39 g

    So you have about $620 USD to find a set of front and rear hubs that have 6 bolt IS Disc flanges that have a combined mass weighing less than 310g...

    Not too many hubs come to mind that can even satisfy those weight requirements. Off the top of my head I can think of:
    Extralite SPD hubs, F:98g R198g
    Tune Princess/Prince Hubs, F:107g R:190g

    Neither of which are less than $612 USD.
    Extralite SPD hubs: F+R = $239+$480 = $719 USD
    Tune Princess + Prince = $332+$690 = $1022 USD

    Looking at the American Classic disc hubs.
    F weight = 130g, $143 USD
    R weight = 225g $238 USD
    Combined = 355g
    Price = $381 USD

    I'm also assuming you can build these wheels yourself and do not need to build a top wheel builder for the build.

  32. #32
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    Eyelets are a running change

    All of our earliest test samples of these rims were non-eyeletted as well. We built several sets to punish and examine the rate of particular wear characteristics. Our test sets were built with either DT Revolution or DT Competition spokes, with alloy nipples. We found the rims to accept punishment that you would expect any light weight XC wheel set to handle, which was beyond our initial expectations. The rims did not display any visual wear above and beyond what any non-eyeletted alloy rim displays after it is built and tensioned. It appears that Alex beefed up the profile/rim extrusion thickness right at the spoke hole drillings, probably to compensate for the lack of eyelets. Even the wheels built with Revolution spokes performed well. These rims also appear to resist the type of minor denting that other rims with softer aluminum alloys are subject to, but that is not to say they are impervious to impact. Over the course of several months, only a few wheels needed very minor truing adjustments, (mostly the Revolution wheels).

    Please note, however, that all or our wheels were extremely well built from the get-go, and we examined them for only 3 - 6 months, depending on the set.

    Having said all that, earlier in the year when Alex was ramping up our production of these, we strongly suggested that they consider the use of eyelets on this rim. We feel that while the rim appeared to offer durability sufficient to thrive in the marketplace, that for a 15 - 20g weight penality, Alex could offer both one of the world's lightest XC race profile rims as well as a more durable product.

    All of our XCR Pro rims now have eyelets, but we are still considering the possibility of bringing in the non-eyeletted variant for the few racers out there that are truly weight conscientious riders. Since Alex, or anyone else really, prefers to produce volume; it is to the best of our understanding that only the eyeletted version of this rim is available at this time.

    We expect, from our microcosmic perspective, that wheels built with these rims will be relatively affordable, very popular, and extremely competitive.

    Hope this is some useful information.

  33. #33
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    You're totally missing the point. I'm not trying to replicate the weight of Stan's wheels. I'm trying to build a wheelset that I can accept as being marginally heavier, uses more reliable hubs (a trade off I'm willing to make for a bit of extra heft) and save money all at the same time. Assuming the hub selection is already decided upon based on functional factors, the cost per gram savings ratio is excellent for the Alex rims over Stan's, for anyone who is already at this level of weight weenie-dom where it's often several dollars per gram to shave more weight. The Alex rims are less than a $1/gram over ZTR Olympics. That's a fact Jack.

    Yes, I build all my own wheels.

    BTW, are you certain Stan's weight is 1210g with the valves and strips? I know they include them installed with the wheels, but that doesn't necessarily mean they included them with weighing. If the industry standard is to weight wheels without valves and strips, I'm doubting Stan does so and places himself at a disadvantage to people comparing specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    Considering these rims are going for around 100 per rim you are not really saving too much if you are comparing a custom set of wheels using Alex XCR Pro rims to Stan's ZTR Race.

    The Stan's ZTR Race costs 950 USD, and comes in at 1210 grams w/ the presta valve and yellow tape installed. Both of which I'm estimating at 14 grams per wheel. So the real weight of the ZTR Race wheels is around 1182g.

    To get 1182 g w/ Alex XCR wheels:

    -Alex XCR Wheels 300g, $100 per rim (assuming you go with the non eyelet version)
    -Dtswiss 1.8 revolutions 3.96g per spoke, $1.90 per spoke (assume 254mm spoke length)
    -Aluminum nipples, .30g per nipple, $0.25 per nipple.

    Two Rims + 64 spokes + 64 nipples = 2($100) + 64($1.90) + 64($.25)
    Sub total cost = $337.60 USD
    Sub Total weight = 872.64g

    Total Amount of money left for F & R hub = $950 - $337.60 = $612.40 USD
    Weight allowed for F & R hub = 1182g - 872.64g = 309.39 g

    So you have about $620 USD to find a set of front and rear hubs that have 6 bolt IS Disc flanges that have a combined mass weighing less than 310g...

    Not too many hubs come to mind that can even satisfy those weight requirements. Off the top of my head I can think of:
    Extralite SPD hubs, F:98g R198g
    Tune Princess/Prince Hubs, F:107g R:190g

    Neither of which are less than $612 USD.
    Extralite SPD hubs: F+R = $239+$480 = $719 USD
    Tune Princess + Prince = $332+$690 = $1022 USD

    Looking at the American Classic disc hubs.
    F weight = 130g, $143 USD
    R weight = 225g $238 USD
    Combined = 355g
    Price = $381 USD

    I'm also assuming you can build these wheels yourself and do not need to build a top wheel builder for the build.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    BTW, are you certain Stan's weight is 1210g with the valves and strips? I know they include them installed with the wheels, but that doesn't necessarily mean they included them with weighing. If the industry standard is to weight wheels without valves and strips, I'm doubting Stan does so and places himself at a disadvantage to people comparing specs.
    All of our Race 7000 wheels are weighed complete, i.e. with yellow tape and valves. For all other builds we offer the weight calculator on the site which you can select whether or not to include the tape and valves. Every effort possible to avoid confusing the consumer is made since Stan is the ultimate weight weenie himself.
    Please do not use the forum PM or e-mail function for business related questions. I can be contacted through our website. Thanks!

    NoTubes.com

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    are you certain Stan's weight is 1210g with the valves and strips?
    yup, 1210 WITH valves and strips. mine were a few grams under.

    we all know there are NO industry standards for how to weigh items - hence the term "claimed weight".

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B.
    All of our Race 7000 wheels are weighed complete, i.e. with yellow tape and valves. For all other builds we offer the weight calculator on the site which you can select whether or not to include the tape and valves. Every effort possible to avoid confusing the consumer is made since Stan is the ultimate weight weenie himself.
    Good on you guys for reporting a real functional weight instead of fudging it somehow to appear more attractive like many other manufacturers in this industry (e.g. bike weight without pedals, etc.)

  37. #37
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    But...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B.
    All of our Race 7000 wheels are weighed complete, i.e. with yellow tape and valves. For all other builds we offer the weight calculator on the site which you can select whether or not to include the tape and valves. Every effort possible to avoid confusing the consumer is made since Stan is the ultimate weight weenie himself.
    the Alex rims are available seperately.you have your choice of bulding the wheel exactly as you want. not everyone is happy with Amclassic hubs for example....

    Nothing against Stans rims! They are sure cool but with Alex you have the choice.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    (e.g. bike weight without pedals, etc.)
    That is actually a very good idea, as everybody has his favorite pedals, and it is easier to do math this way.

    Much better then Cannondale advise to go to a shop and try it out.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    That is actually a very good idea, as everybody has his favorite pedals, and it is easier to do math this way.
    99% of people are going to change out the tires. Many will swap the saddle similarly. Are we going to start weighing bikes without tires and saddles too? If it's being sold as a "bike" then a bike needs pedals, and should be weighed as such.

  40. #40
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    Can't argue with you there. I think another light option is a good thing believe or not.
    Please do not use the forum PM or e-mail function for business related questions. I can be contacted through our website. Thanks!

    NoTubes.com

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B.
    Can't argue with you there. I think another light option is a good thing believe or not.
    Is Alex's bead hook design infringing on NoTubes patents in any way that you know of? NoTubes products have always done very for me. Although I really would like to have access to the Race and 7000 series rims without having to buy complete wheels, I can also respect the innovation NoTubes has injected into the industry, and therefore I would personally consider supporting NoTubes by NOT purchasing any products that infringe on your patents.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Although I really would like to have access to the Race and 7000 series rims without having to buy complete wheels...
    you can get the Race rims separately here:
    http://cgi.ebay.de/NoTubes-ZTR-Race-...1%7C240%3A1318

    107 Euro = ca. 140$ (per rim)

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    you can get the Race rims separately here:
    http://cgi.ebay.de/NoTubes-ZTR-Race-...1%7C240%3A1318

    107 Euro = ca. 140$ (per rim)
    I did not clarify that I meant through regular channels for myself in North America, meaning direct from NoTubes or through local dealer. Of course, you're correct that for someone motivated enough (in terms of shipping cost, etc.) they can source the rims from other locations.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    99% of people are going to change out the tires. Many will swap the saddle similarly. Are we going to start weighing bikes without tires and saddles too? If it's being sold as a "bike" then a bike needs pedals, and should be weighed as such.
    99% is a wild exaggeration, while selling a complete bike without pedals is a common practice.

    As long as this is a common practice and all is clearly stated, there is no problem with that.

    It is about transparency and honesty, not about using some standard configuration. Just list what it is there. Much better then not providing any data at all.

  45. #45
    LA CHÈVRE
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    99% of bike companies claimed weight are off (real weigh > claimed weight) so Cannondale's policy of not claiming a weight at all is pretty nice IMO, I'd rather have the weight checked by consumers than by marketing guys.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    99% of bike companies claimed weight are off (real weigh > claimed weight) so Cannondale's policy of not claiming a weight at all is pretty nice IMO, I'd rather have the weight checked by consumers than by marketing guys.
    87.5% of all statistics are bogus.

    Consumers do not check anything, and providing a weight is not that hard. Shimano does it very accurately, so do many component manufacturers. Kona provides quite accurate weights for complete builds on their official forum. I think I have already covered more then 1%.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    87.5% of all statistics are bogus.

    Consumers do not check anything, and providing a weight is not that hard. Shimano does it very accurately, so do many component manufacturers. Kona provides quite accurate weights for complete builds on their official forum. I think I have already covered more then 1%.


    Shimano might be fine, Kona too I wouldn't know but Cannondale don't post weights because they know 73.8% of other companies are not too honest about their weights (Shimano and Kona might fall into the other 12.5%) and 57.2% of consumers only check the claimed weight and buy that. Cannondale don't want their real weights to compete against a false weight but they are confident enough in their products that if you walk into a store to check the bikes, you can get a real weight, proven right before your eyes. They also do that because they want you to visit your LBS...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  48. #48
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    99% is a wild exaggeration
    In this forum (which is the audience I was addressing) I'll stand by my original estimate of 99% that will change their tires out from stock, either to save weight or to gain other performance characteristics.

  49. #49
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    I suppose your logic is that tires will wear out, so people will be changing them? 99% of people changing their tires from the stockers is completely unrealistic (unless you further refine yourself to try and be right by saying "the ones that take weight weenieing very seriously"). I consider myself a Weight Weenie with a 23-ish LB AM FS ... but I still ride Nevegals (stock tires). By your logic, you need to find 99 people for every one of me that is on the trails.

  50. #50
    NoTubes.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Is Alex's bead hook design infringing on NoTubes patents in any way that you know of? NoTubes products have always done very for me. Although I really would like to have access to the Race and 7000 series rims without having to buy complete wheels, I can also respect the innovation NoTubes has injected into the industry, and therefore I would personally consider supporting NoTubes by NOT purchasing any products that infringe on your patents.
    Can't say for certain without some measuring but my feeling is that it doesn't not pose a problem. I've only briefly seen the rim at Eurobike.

    Thank you for the support by the way, it means a lot.
    Please do not use the forum PM or e-mail function for business related questions. I can be contacted through our website. Thanks!

    NoTubes.com

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