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  1. #1
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    Best lightweight fork w/ "smart" technology?

    I'm contemplating an upgrade for my bike, and would like to get a fork that is nice and light, but having the "SPV" or Terralogic technology. Currently I'm running a Manitou SPV fork but would like to go with something that has IS mounting for discs (I'm getting a set of Magura Marta SL's). What is available out there that would fit the bill? How are the first few yrs of Fox forks that had the terralogic or whatever technology?

    I'd prefer to find a used fork if I can, simply to go easy on the wallet. Any help, anyone selling a fork that fits my needs, please feel free to email me directly at ljklassen(at)mts(dot)net - replace words in parentheses with symbols, of course.

    Thanks for any input.

  2. #2
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    um.....u realize u can buy martas w/ post mount?

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    Yes, I do realize that, but that isn't really the issue. I am thinking of switching over to a Fox F80x or something along those lines. I'm just not familiar with the newest forks - are there any other manufacturers making this kind of technology (e.g. Rockshox, Marzocchi), or are they all still using manual lockouts?

    If people here tell me the best fork for what I'm looking is the Manitou (in terms of performance and weight), then I'd just get a post-mount caliper and swap it out, then stick with my Manitou. I was hoping to get opinions on this, though.

  4. #4
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    Well, this this really depends on which fork you have now. We know it's a Manitou, we know it has SPV - c'mon, just a little more. If you say a Skareb then you already know it's light and flexy. If it's a Minute you know it's stiff and heavy(ish).

    Do share, as we would be better informed to give you an appropriate reply, especially because this thread is more along the line's of a fork comparison. Might help to include wether it's OEM or aftermarket and also what your riding preferences are. (some people find a Skareb flexy, some don't - depsnds on the type of riding and the rider, too)
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    Sorry, that's a fair question - I'm currently running a Manitou Black Super SPV (I think it is 2004). Does it actually make a difference if it is OEM or not? I'm not sure, but I suspect it may be OEM.

    I had previously ridden a Fox F100 RL decreased to 80mm, that's now on my wife's bike. I was thinking the Manitou would be much more efficient for racing, but to tell you the truth I don't know too much about setting up these newer forks for optimal performance, etc.

    I'm also getting an RLT cartridge for the Fox, so I may end up putting that back on the bike, but I'd like to know what the newer Fox's are like in terms of both performance and weight (the Terralogic ones, that is).

    I also previously had a SID on the bike, but hated that for the flexiness. I like light weight (I've also run AMP's on my HT's in the past, and previously had an AMP B5 that was around or just under 20 lbs) but I really want to go with what will be best in terms of performance for racing. I'm just an amateur, but I like to have fun with it.

    Currently I'm riding an '01 Ellsworth Truth with the Black Super SPV, full XTR (including discs and older-style, M952 cranks), Thomson post and stem, SLR saddle, Frog Ti's. Fox ProPedal rear shock (2005, not the RP3 version, though). Cane Creek Team wheels w/ Sapim CXray spokes, tubeless tires.

    Any thoughts?

    Oh, I'm also planning on hopefully building up a HT again - I miss the feel, but don't want it as my everyday bike - just something to race on fast courses. That's a little further down the line, though.

    Thanks for taking the time to look and provide assistance.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Doc
    Sorry, that's a fair question - I'm currently running a Manitou Black Super SPV (I think it is 2004). Does it actually make a difference if it is OEM or not? I'm not sure, but I suspect it may be OEM.

    I had previously ridden a Fox F100 RL decreased to 80mm, that's now on my wife's bike. I was thinking the Manitou would be much more efficient for racing, but to tell you the truth I don't know too much about setting up these newer forks for optimal performance, etc.

    I'm also getting an RLT cartridge for the Fox, so I may end up putting that back on the bike, but I'd like to know what the newer Fox's are like in terms of both performance and weight (the Terralogic ones, that is).

    I also previously had a SID on the bike, but hated that for the flexiness. I like light weight (I've also run AMP's on my HT's in the past, and previously had an AMP B5 that was around or just under 20 lbs) but I really want to go with what will be best in terms of performance for racing. I'm just an amateur, but I like to have fun with it.

    Currently I'm riding an '01 Ellsworth Truth with the Black Super SPV, full XTR (including discs and older-style, M952 cranks), Thomson post and stem, SLR saddle, Frog Ti's. Fox ProPedal rear shock (2005, not the RP3 version, though). Cane Creek Team wheels w/ Sapim CXray spokes, tubeless tires.

    Any thoughts?

    Oh, I'm also planning on hopefully building up a HT again - I miss the feel, but don't want it as my everyday bike - just something to race on fast courses. That's a little further down the line, though.

    Thanks for taking the time to look and provide assistance.
    Okay, that's better.

    As far as your Black is concerned it won't make a huge difference in it's performance simply because the SPV assembly will be the same either way (same function). If anything i'd say you could look into upgrading to an '05 assembly (if you do indeed have an '04) as they're more efficient operationally. Otherwise, the Black isn't a bad fork at all.

    Terralogic? I really can't help you much there. Lot's of rider's swear by it and other's swear by SPV, so i'll just clam-up at this point. If will add, however, that you have one BIG plus with going the Fox route - PUSH Industries.

    Either way you'll have a fork that will be efficient and not weigh a ton.

    Just for kicks, here's the Manitou SPV set-up guide to help you get your's dialed in better if you haven't already seen it. If you're local to Toronto and need a hand let me know.

    http://www.answerproducts.com/images.../SPVSETUP2.pdf
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  7. #7
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    Spinner Aeris... Sid weight with basically the best stable-platform damper going right now.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

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    Andrew, thanks a lot for the set-up guide, that will be helpful. How are the '05's better in terms of being more efficient? Oh, and I'm in Manitoba, so it would be a little bit of a jaunt to get the help - thanks very much for the offer, though! I'll be visiting your city Feb. 2-5th actually, looking forward to it as I haven't really been there for many yrs (I was there for an overnite last summer in the heatwave, but never got to leave the hotel room).

    With a Fox, is there any real difference between the '04's to '06's in terms of rigidity, performance, weight, etc.?

    Will one really notice a difference between the '03 Float RL and the newer Terralogics, and if so, is there a big difference when getting to the newer Terralogics?

    Finally, DeeEight - thanks for weighing in, I remember getting advice from you years ago (I was previously on this as Big Daddy for yrs, but they never let me register like that when the forums changed for some reason) - is that fork you mention available anywhere (preferrably used - I can't afford $750 US), and is it as flexy as a SID, or better than that? I'm assuming at 1.1kg it won't be stiff like a Fox, but will it compare to a Manitou, or be noodly? I'd sacrifice the weight a little if it meant much better performance (otherwise I'd still be running my carbon F3 or carbon F4 on this bike, you know?) but if it comes close and its accessible, I'd sure like to look at it.

  9. #9
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    Spinner Aeris...

    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Doc
    Andrew, thanks a lot for the set-up guide, that will be helpful. How are the '05's better in terms of being more efficient? Oh, and I'm in Manitoba, so it would be a little bit of a jaunt to get the help - thanks very much for the offer, though! I'll be visiting your city Feb. 2-5th actually, looking forward to it as I haven't really been there for many yrs (I was there for an overnite last summer in the heatwave, but never got to leave the hotel room).

    With a Fox, is there any real difference between the '04's to '06's in terms of rigidity, performance, weight, etc.?

    Will one really notice a difference between the '03 Float RL and the newer Terralogics, and if so, is there a big difference when getting to the newer Terralogics?

    Finally, DeeEight - thanks for weighing in, I remember getting advice from you years ago (I was previously on this as Big Daddy for yrs, but they never let me register like that when the forums changed for some reason) - is that fork you mention available anywhere (preferrably used - I can't afford $750 US), and is it as flexy as a SID, or better than that? I'm assuming at 1.1kg it won't be stiff like a Fox, but will it compare to a Manitou, or be noodly? I'd sacrifice the weight a little if it meant much better performance (otherwise I'd still be running my carbon F3 or carbon F4 on this bike, you know?) but if it comes close and its accessible, I'd sure like to look at it.
    i have the Spinner and it is definitely what you are looking for:
    -80mm of travel
    "spul"-valve which is the best stable-platfrom device in any fork on the market. that's where i completely agree with MBA who rated this as THE best system out there.
    -1266g uncut for disc-brakes (no cantibosses) / 1300g for V's (1260g cut to 170mm)
    -MUCH stiffer than a SID

    the fork will go on my Scale within the next couple of weeks. i just have to wait for the snow to melt to have a head to head comparison with my old and trusty SID WC. i already rode the Aeris in my 2nd bike and it performs great. that's a killer race-fork.no softy, cushy ride though. it has just enough resistance at the beginning of the stroke which hinders it from bobbing around.no tranbsition is felt.just smooth soaking of the bumps.it's just not a sofa like some would like. for me the perfect fork. the smallest stuff gets done by the tires, then the fork starts soaking up...
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  10. #10
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    To add to what nino mentioned, its unlikely to be found used... they've been on the market only 1 year, are HIGHLY sought after by racers and weight weenies alike, and they retail new at about $700US and people have been willing to pay that too.
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  11. #11
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    Great....

    Your killing me yet again. And why am I just hearing about this fork? The humanity.

    Retail appears to be $799.95 US. I'd save 115gms over the Noleen. Ouch. Nice fork for sure. Ti crown even.. Now thats cool. Hmmmm... Must...maintain...control...
    ..

    Duck-lusting at http://www.spinner-usa.com/sf_cc.html at the moment.

  12. #12
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    fox weight from 04 to 06 - 2005 onwards fox forks use more refined internals. the terralogic forks while very stiff and efficient are heavy compared to other race forks - you're lucky to get a set under 1.6kgs. there are 2005 onwards f80rlt's under 1.5kgs that can be found second hand but they have a manual lockout.

    manitou have been evolving their spv assemblies. you have the original spv - the recommended upgrade was to spv evolve which is more efficient. the newest generation of spv is spv snap valve and is on the new R7's. i think my advice would be save a little and get a set of r7 platinums. the 80mm version weighs in just below 1.4kgs and has 30mm stanchions so much stiffer than a sid - a little stiffer than the equally sized marzocchi and almost as good as the fox.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman
    Great....

    Your killing me yet again. And why am I just hearing about this fork? The humanity.

    Retail appears to be $799.95 US. I'd save 115gms over the Noleen. Ouch. Nice fork for sure. Ti crown even.. Now thats cool. Hmmmm... Must...maintain...control...
    ..

    Duck-lusting at http://www.spinner-usa.com/sf_cc.html at the moment.
    Well I've mention the aeris lots of times the past year, hell, Nino even bought one awhile ago. There's been lots of threads about 'em and a full MBA review of it. It had a better damper obviously, and it is a bit lighter, but its not available in a 100mm travel mode, doesn't have any sort of damping adjustment, and its not as stiff as a MegaAir obviously (a Ti crown might be stiffer than an Al one, but we're talking 28.6mm SC7000 stanchions vs 32mm EA70 Stanchions...the alloy properties are so close in stiffness terms that the larger diameter wins out here).
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  14. #14
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    the aeris sounds awesome. too bad its like the ugliest fork ever, it has absolutely no character.

  15. #15
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    sweet looking...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey
    the aeris sounds awesome. too bad its like the ugliest fork ever, it has absolutely no character.
    well - i on the other hand think that's a beauty.
    i don't want a fancy looking fork. black and solver matches any bike out there while red,green,silver with blue stickers (Fox) sometimes don't match a bike at all.

    if you take a closer look at the details you will have to agree that it looks sweet

    @DeeEight:
    stiffness is a term that gets overrated big time lately. all magazines, all manufacturers claim added stiffness, stiffer here, stiffer there...we see outboard bearings on integrated cranks which are super stiff, oversized stems and handlebars....who cares for all that sh!t??? as i say over and over italian sprinter Alessandro Pettacchi wins every sprint in the pro peloton using Campagnolo square bottom brackets...so is he really loosing power with his setup?? i don't believe so. also half the pro field of the tour de France runs Campa with square BBs and no one ever complained yet Shimano and all the others make you believe stiffer is better.

    same with the oversize handlebars where they make all the hype about added rigidity...no one ever asked about. in fact, german roadie magazine TOUR now rates all those OS stems and bars as too stiff translating too much irregularities into the upper body. the trend is going back yet manufacturers try to sell new stuff...stiff is good fro those who really demand such parts like all the downhillers,freeriders or really heavy people.

    the Aeris is a stiff fork. for sure stiff enough for any xc-abuse. let's just not forget multiple champions still ride the SIDs which we all know aren't stiff but who really cares??
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    Just thought I'd pipe in here:

    I just reviewed this fork recently for Cyclingnews:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?.../spinner_aeris

    Happy reading.

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  17. #17
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    will they make a cheaper alu version?

  18. #18
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    Yes, its called the Talon and already exists and has more options available. Its about a $400 fork and weighs a half pound more or so.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Yes, its called the Talon and already exists and has more options available. Its about a $400 fork and weighs a half pound more or so.
    Actually, Spinner is expanding the Aeris lineup. I can't remember the details, but I believe it is going to be called the Aeris Sport and includes an aluminum crown.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Yes, its called the Talon and already exists and has more options available. Its about a $400 fork and weighs a half pound more or so.
    who sells them? the talon looks like a really nice fork for cheaper than anyone else for the features... travel adjust, lockout, platform, 3lbs+, $299 msrp...

  21. #21
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    Dang, that fork looks INCREDIBLE. Bling materials (I am studying materials engineering), low weight, improved stiffness over SID... NICE!
    ---(cheap, light, strong)---
    pick two...

    I choose all 3!!!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Doc
    Andrew, thanks a lot for the set-up guide, that will be helpful. How are the '05's better in terms of being more efficient? Oh, and I'm in Manitoba, so it would be a little bit of a jaunt to get the help - thanks very much for the offer, though! I'll be visiting your city Feb. 2-5th actually, looking forward to it as I haven't really been there for many yrs (I was there for an overnite last summer in the heatwave, but never got to leave the hotel room).

    With a Fox, is there any real difference between the '04's to '06's in terms of rigidity, performance, weight, etc.?

    Will one really notice a difference between the '03 Float RL and the newer Terralogics, and if so, is there a big difference when getting to the newer Terralogics?

    Finally, DeeEight - thanks for weighing in, I remember getting advice from you years ago (I was previously on this as Big Daddy for yrs, but they never let me register like that when the forums changed for some reason) - is that fork you mention available anywhere (preferrably used - I can't afford $750 US), and is it as flexy as a SID, or better than that? I'm assuming at 1.1kg it won't be stiff like a Fox, but will it compare to a Manitou, or be noodly? I'd sacrifice the weight a little if it meant much better performance (otherwise I'd still be running my carbon F3 or carbon F4 on this bike, you know?) but if it comes close and its accessible, I'd sure like to look at it.

    GEt the Manitou R7 Platinum w/ SPV @ 3.05 lbs. or the R7 Super (lockout) @ 3.12 lbs., so much lighter than your existing Black forks. & get a Magura MArta in Post mount (as you could get this from your dealer).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.mn
    GEt the Manitou R7 Platinum w/ SPV @ 3.05 lbs. or the R7 Super (lockout) @ 3.12 lbs., so much lighter than your existing Black forks. & get a Magura MArta in Post mount (as you could get this from your dealer).
    problem is they are all much heavier than advertized. i also had the Manitou on my list you can't call them light anymore. much heavier than i would like.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by angryasian
    I just reviewed this fork recently for Cyclingnews:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?.../spinner_aeris

    Happy reading.

    </FONT><A HREF="http://www.angryasian.com"><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#800000">www.angryasian.com</FONT></A><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2>
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    hey, nice seeing you writing some stuff here in the weightweenies forum

    i also had to adjust my Aeris. it certainly needs some knowledge as there is no dials so you need to know what oil-levels and oil-weights do to a fork:
    -i found it too soft for my taste, even with really high pressure settings it would still go through the travel too fast. so i raised the oils level some to help get up the progression towards the end of the stroke.
    i also found the rebound a tad slow so before adding oil i took some out and then added the thinnest 2.5 weight oil.

    all i can say is the fork is doing a perfect job for me. as i already said above i don't need a cushy ride. i'm riding an unsuspended "cross"-bike lately and am used to work for the smoothest line. but the Spinner is really shining as soon as you are going faster. uphills it won't barely move, giving you the feel of a rigid ride. but as soon as things get faster it soaks up everything. i found myslef going straight over anything the trails had to offer where i usually look for the smoothest line.

  25. #25
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    a trick with rc car shocks was to put a circular piece of velum or other flexible material on the piston on whatever side you wanted to manipulate: if you want more rebound damping, put the velum on top of the piston. size it so that it slows rebound enough, but not too much. trim as needed. (the velum needs to partially cover the port, obviously). since changing oil weight affects both compression and rebound, the velum cover allowed one sided adjustment.

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    nino, just to set clear the weights of the R7. they got no where near their original weights but the claimed weights now on their website have been updated. if anything, they are higher than actual.

    as an example - my 100mm r7 platinum weighs 1.45kg (3.19lb) with a steerer a tad over 200mm. the 80mm version weighs somewhere inbetween a sid world cup and a sid team if you include the poploc remote. i'm no hardcore - just a 150lb xc racer - but i do notice and appreciate the extra stiffness.

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    I think the Aeris looks wicked; definitely the best looking fork around!

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    Quote Originally Posted by j.mn
    GEt the Manitou R7 Platinum w/ SPV @ 3.05 lbs. or the R7 Super (lockout) @ 3.12 lbs., so much lighter than your existing Black forks. & get a Magura MArta in Post mount (as you could get this from your dealer).
    Are these real world weights? How did you come by them?

  29. #29
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    Anybody know the A-C length on that Spinner? For a 80mm fork, that thing looks huge.

    I want one of those but i also need the shortest A-C possible.
    Desperately searching for a klein 120mm O-rise MC1 mission control stem /handlebars or any 1 1/4 quill stem equivalent.
    EDIT- HELLOOOOOOOO......... Desperately means i will pay really,really good money for it.

  30. #30
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    It looks like that because it has less sanction overlap, meaning the lower tubes are shorter then average, resulting in lots of upper sanction being exposed(ala current Sids, meaning its more of a lame way to lose weight imho) and with all other things being equal..means more flex between upper and lowers. As an example, early WC Sids had longer lowers(=more overlap and less wagging of the front end on climbs) but were also around 3.25lbs. With a newer Sid(and earlier Race, Team, etc), you can tell by where the V-bosses are in regards to the dust wipers at the top of the lowers. Almost dead even where, say a Fox or Manitou, the wipes are up above an inch or 2 more(=more overlap if the crown is the same height). Current Sids have tons of exposed upper sanctions, but in contrast only use half of that during its travel upward.

  31. #31
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    Solved the Marta thing, now for front/rear shocks...

    Quote Originally Posted by j.mn
    GEt the Manitou R7 Platinum w/ SPV @ 3.05 lbs. or the R7 Super (lockout) @ 3.12 lbs., so much lighter than your existing Black forks. & get a Magura MArta in Post mount (as you could get this from your dealer).
    Okay, I've got another marta caliper, so I can go either IS or post. Now I'm still wondering about shocks.

    Some good points were made - it seems mine is one of the early SPV's - are the newer ones significantly better? Will I notice the difference? How about weight?

    Are the Fox's (either the '04's or newer) better in performance than my Manitou SPV? How about the newer/newest SPV's?

    And I just got a different rear shock - a Fox Float R PP (2005 I believe) - so its newer, propedal but without lockout. To remind, this is all on a 2001 Ellsworth Truth. Do I have to be concerned about matching the front shock in terms of performance? Chances are I wouldn't notice, but I gotta ask you folks that know a lot more about this than I do.

    Thanks again for all the input, this is very helpful.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Doc
    Okay, I've got another marta caliper, so I can go either IS or post. Now I'm still wondering about shocks.

    Some good points were made - it seems mine is one of the early SPV's - are the newer ones significantly better? Will I notice the difference? How about weight?
    Hey, sorry I missed your Q earlier!

    The comparison between '04 SPV and '05 SPV Evolve is narrowed down to the use of a teflon ring used for sealing. The '04 stuff used and o-ring that could be problematic. I can't say it's a huge difference, but when you think you're gaining reliability i'd say that say's something. You should be able to upgrade your fork to the Evolve damper by simply purchasing and installing it (or having your trusted LBS do it for you).

    Weight? There's little, if any, difference in weight between the two assembly's. They are very very similar, main change was the aforementioned o-ring/teflon seal swap. No, you can't just change the o-ring to the teflon seal, either. If you want to look more into upgrading what you have expect to pay $100-150 Canadian for the SPV rebound damping assembly for your fork. Then you gotta get it installed (or do it yourself).

    As for the other Q's - the newest SPV technology from Manitou is Snap Valve SPV, which is still being "evaluated by public" (any of us need to hear more about it, very little out there). But hey, you can always volunteer! Nothing wrong with selling your current fork to subsidize an R7.

    Oh hey, you really gonna be out here beginning of February?
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    Good job! humm...

    For me i would go for a FOX rlt .... terralogic takes out the felling of a suspencion...
    And with RLT you can just lock it and will ride just like an terralogic and she unlocks when fell a bump and is lighter too and cheaper.

    And what you guys think about this one:

    XC .8 and XC 1.0 .... anyone have tryed one of these?.....
    http://www.whitebrotherscycling.com/product-xcvt.php

  34. #34
    Cut Casing Whisperer
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    The comparison between '04 SPV and '05 SPV Evolve is narrowed down to the use of a teflon ring used for sealing. The '04 stuff used and o-ring that could be problematic. I can't say it's a huge difference, but when you think you're gaining reliability i'd say that say's something. You should be able to upgrade your fork to the Evolve damper by simply purchasing and installing it (or having your trusted LBS do it for you).
    To add to this, the 05 SPV Evolve has an additional port that allows oil a little oil flow before platform is broken. the 04 SPV does not. This allows some movement of the fork while platfrom is engaged and takes off some of the harshness of small bumps.

    This takes a bit away from the platfrom but I think the trade off is more of a benefit. I love to stand and hammer on SPV.

    Mr. P

  35. #35
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    If you like your fork get the marta sl with the manitou post mount setup for the front. The Magura tech told me they come both ways (IS and Manitou). I actually prefer the feel of Manitou's SPV over the Terralogic platform (I have both) but the Fox is undeniably a nicer piece of workmanship. It's also twice as much money. So...

  36. #36
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    Looks like I should stay awake while reading these posts. Sorry for being redundant. I'd like to hear more about the Spinner fork after more rides. Would it stand up to a 195 lb expert racer?

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