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  1. #1
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    Best Bang for Buck to Save Weight?

    I am sure a similar thread has likely been posted here, but I thought I would put this out there anyways. I am currently riding a stock Giant NRS Comp 2 with the exception of upgraded disc brakes. The bike is just over 26lbs, but I would like to get it down to around 24lbs. Without spending over $1000 up front (because my CFO won't approve), what do you riders out there think is the best weight savings opportunities for the money? I know wheels and tires are up there, as well as the crankset, handlebars, and seat post. Your ideas are appreciated.

    N.
    Last edited by mtbmeister; 03-07-2006 at 10:33 AM.

  2. #2
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    Shed as much rotaional weight as you can first then see how much money you have left and start ticking off the fat in other components as your wallet will allow. I'm not familiar with your build but generally stock bikes can come with heavy bottom brackets, seatposts, seats, etc., etc. Two pounds to lose is a little over 900 grams. Good luck.
    Every man has inside himself a parasitic being who is acting not at all to his advantage.
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  3. #3
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    Here's the spec with exception to the brakes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Axis II
    Shed as much rotaional weight as you can first then see how much money you have left and start ticking off the fat in other components as your wallet will allow. I'm not familiar with your build but generally stock bikes can come with heavy bottom brackets, seatposts, seats, etc., etc. Two pounds to lose is a little over 900 grams. Good luck.
    Spec is here. Have Hayes Mag Plus Discs and Speedplay Frog pedals on it...


    frame formulaOne Composite/ALUXX SL double butted aluminum, composite rocker arms, 3.75" rear travel
    shock Fox Float R
    fork Fox FRL, 80mm travel
    headset FSA Orbit ACB
    derailleur Front: Shimano LX, Rear: Shimano LX
    shifters Shimano LX
    cassette SRAM PG950, 11-34T, 9-speed
    cranks RaceFace Ride XC, 22/32/44T
    handlebar Easton EA50 low rise
    stem Easton EA50
    brakes Hayes SOLE, Hydraulic Disc, 6" rotors
    levers Hayes
    saddle WTB Rocket V
    seatpost Easton EA50 350x27.2
    rims Mavic XM 317, 32H
    hubs DT Cerit disc, 32H
    tires Hutchinson Python AirLight 26x2.0
    spokes Stainless Steel, 14/15G

    Thanks...

  4. #4
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    wheels, cassette, bars, post, grips

    first, foam grips. (save about 80 grams)
    second, superthin tubes or stans - around 100 grams per tire over regular tubes. (so about 200 grams here, 280 total saved)
    unused bottle cage bolts... replace with plastic (10-20 grams, 300 total saved)

    ok 300 grams, that only cost about $30...


    not entirely familiar with your wheels, but have you weighed em? 317 are now 717's so around 400 gm... that is fine, but those spokes and hubs? (i saved 600 grams on wheels going from 223, steel spokes, XT hubs to 717's, DT comp spokes and WTB hubs for $200 on ebay)

    get a light (and good) set of wheels. something around 1500 gm give or take, for rims, spokes and hubs. (probably about 300+grams, so 600 total saved)

    are your pythons wire bead or folding. i think some giant OEM python air lights are actually wire bead... run tires that are around 500 - 450 grams

    your handlebar is about 300 grams - get something 150 or less (so 750 total saved)
    your post is about 280 grams (plus a 25 gram shim?) - get a thompson around 220 grams or carbon around 200 (so 850 total saved)

    you cassette is almost 400 grams, sram PG-990 is just under 300 grams (so about 950 total saved)

    now you have met your goal, probably for way less than the $1000

    keep going...
    check that BB, your seat is about 250 grams etc, etc. it never really stops does it.

    anyway, good luck and weigh those wheels.

  5. #5
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    Excluding the the wheels who might be pricey, I would change (in this order)

    Thin tubes or Stans
    seatpost (replace with a straight model (i.e. Extralite)) -
    handlebar (get a old, weaved Monkeylite or Protaper 70-90$)
    stem (fsa XC115 - 60$)
    saddle (SLR XP)
    cheers
    fab

  6. #6
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    wheels a must

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable
    Excluding the the wheels who might be pricey, I would change (in this order)

    Thin tubes or Stans
    seatpost (replace with a straight model (i.e. Extralite)) -
    handlebar (get a old, weaved Monkeylite or Protaper 70-90$)
    stem (fsa XC115 - 60$)
    saddle (SLR XP)
    cheers
    fab
    the fsa stem is about 130 grams, your current stem is about 175 grams, that is only 45 grams...
    the SLR XP is about 150, you saddle is about 265, so that would be good.

    regarding wheels, pricey if new yes, no too bad lightly used though, and less rotational weight is what will make the bike FEEL lighter (accelerate and climb much better). i would recommend wheels before seatpost, handle bars, stem, saddle... IMO.

  7. #7
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    Sorry,slightly Sarcastic

    Do not buy anything.Nothing spent,nothing to weigh.Best bang for buck advice i can give!!?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmeister
    Spec is here. Have Hayes Mag Plus Discs and Speedplay Frog pedals on it...


    frame formulaOne Composite/ALUXX SL double butted aluminum, composite rocker arms, 3.75" rear travel
    shock Fox Float R
    fork Fox FRL, 80mm travel
    headset FSA Orbit ACB
    derailleur Front: Shimano LX, Rear: Shimano LX
    shifters Shimano LX
    cassette SRAM PG950, 11-34T, 9-speed
    cranks RaceFace Ride XC, 22/32/44T
    handlebar Easton EA50 low rise
    stem Easton EA50
    brakes Hayes SOLE, Hydraulic Disc, 6" rotors
    levers Hayes
    saddle WTB Rocket V
    seatpost Easton EA50 350x27.2
    rims Mavic XM 317, 32H
    hubs DT Cerit disc, 32H
    tires Hutchinson Python AirLight 26x2.0
    spokes Stainless Steel, 14/15G

    Thanks...
    Crank and BB - Bye Bye. Race Face Next, Turbine or if you aren't a Clyde then Extralite (hey, you said the CFO approve $1K). God only knows what BB is in there. Both - out!

    Your wheels aren't too bad, at the very least you could just do the spokes and nipples. As previously mentioned - check the tire beads and see what you've got for tubes. I've been running Bontrager SuperLights - ~120 grams each and inexpensive ($4/tube up here).

    If you can live without the riser bar then i'd get a Scandium handlebar. There's a few that are being made by Control Tech's manufacturer under different names. It's a 600mm bar, with 6* bend and weighs around 117 grams. Usually had for around $60-65 US.

    Syntace stem. Period.

    Seatpost - i'd say Thompson, but you aren't saving much weight there. Certainly not worth calling "bang for the buck". From what i've come to understand, Giant's carbon post weighs less than 200 - find one on E-Bay. Bonus as it's a "correct" part for the bike.

    There, you should still have a few bucks left over for flowers for the wife. OH, I mean CFO.


    Now, since i've done my part, can I ask YOU for a favour?????? Can you PLEEEEAAAASE weigh your composite rockers? PLLLLEEEEEEEAAAAASSE?!?!??!??!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?! Thanks.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies.

  9. #9
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    Easiest place to save weight for most riders is themselves. I've lost 6 lbs since the start of Feb and probably saved alot of money that would normally be spent on beer. Get that rotational weight down - wheels and tires and go from there. You wont feel it that much in your stem, seatppost, and seat. BUT when you get those light wheels going, all smiles.

  10. #10
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    Hmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Crank and BB - Bye Bye. Race Face Next, Turbine or if you aren't a Clyde then Extralite (hey, you said the CFO approve $1K). God only knows what BB is in there. Both - out!

    Your wheels aren't too bad, at the very least you could just do the spokes and nipples. As previously mentioned - check the tire beads and see what you've got for tubes. I've been running Bontrager SuperLights - ~120 grams each and inexpensive ($4/tube up here).

    If you can live without the riser bar then i'd get a Scandium handlebar. There's a few that are being made by Control Tech's manufacturer under different names. It's a 600mm bar, with 6* bend and weighs around 117 grams. Usually had for around $60-65 US.

    Syntace stem. Period.

    Seatpost - i'd say Thompson, but you aren't saving much weight there. Certainly not worth calling "bang for the buck". From what i've come to understand, Giant's carbon post weighs less than 200 - find one on E-Bay. Bonus as it's a "correct" part for the bike.

    There, you should still have a few bucks left over for flowers for the wife. OH, I mean CFO.


    Now, since i've done my part, can I ask YOU for a favour?????? Can you PLEEEEAAAASE weigh your composite rockers? PLLLLEEEEEEEAAAAASSE?!?!??!??!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?! Thanks.
    Hey Andrew,

    Thanks for the reply. A little off topic, but do you hit Albion much? I am a former Bolton resident that spent a lot of time there and may have seen you there on occasion. I ride the Tuesday night series as well as both 24hrs...

    Anyhow, thanks for the reply. As far as weighing the rockers, I'll have to get back to you on that. Having read your reply, I think that I may have got the shaft there and they may actually be aluminum. However, I got a smokin deal on the bike so I can't really complain. I have spoken to the LBS about a Deus Crank and new BB that would get me significant weight savings right away. Also, I have been running run of the mill tubes which I will also change. Spokes was a new one. I hadn't really thought much about trimming weight until now, so all of the suggestions are good. I will check out the rockers and get back to you.

    Neil

  11. #11
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    Lightweight tubes in a Python airlight on your rear tire could be a disaster if you ride fast (12 or 13 mph average) in rocky terrain. I've learned time and time again to be careful about saving weight in tires, especially the rear. All lightweight tubes ever seem to do for me is go flat.

    I love to run tube-type tires, tubeless because of the superior traction that the lower pressure provides. Strips seem to be the way to go over a rim bed that is not drilled, for a lighter weight, but by losing material in the rim you give up some of the durability you probably want when running tires at lower pressures. I had this experience with a 400 gram rim.

    If you don't have any rocks where you live, disregard this. And I feel sorry for you.

    Changing the bars, stem, saddle, post, and cassette could save you 500 grams.
    As regal as a Buick!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfurby
    Lightweight tubes in a Python airlight on your rear tire could be a disaster if you ride fast (12 or 13 mph average) in rocky terrain. I've learned time and time again to be careful about saving weight in tires, especially the rear. All lightweight tubes ever seem to do for me is go flat.
    Agree - the pytons suck in rock terrain, last year shredded two tires on the rear wheel. Now switched to Conti Explorer Supersonic.
    Disagree - the high volume Pytons protect light tubes very well, eve if inflated at a relatively low pressure. You just can't use Airlight Hutchinsons if yu let it go on rock downhills!!
    fab

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad
    the fsa stem is about 130 grams, your current stem is about 175 grams, that is only 45 grams...
    the SLR XP is about 150, you saddle is about 265, so that would be good.

    regarding wheels, pricey if new yes, no too bad lightly used though, and less rotational weight is what will make the bike FEEL lighter (accelerate and climb much better). i would recommend wheels before seatpost, handle bars, stem, saddle... IMO.

    According to my scale, the FSA stem (105mm) is 120 and the SLR XP (kevlar sides) is 180.
    I though the easton stem was much heavier!
    A second hand wheelset will be a good investment however, I would also move it at the top of the list
    fab

  14. #14
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    Pythons have been good to me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable
    Agree - the pytons suck in rock terrain, last year shredded two tires on the rear wheel. Now switched to Conti Explorer Supersonic.
    Disagree - the high volume Pytons protect light tubes very well, eve if inflated at a relatively low pressure. You just can't use Airlight Hutchinsons if yu let it go on rock downhills!!
    fab
    Thanks for the feedback on the tubes. I must say, the Pythons have been good to me. I have been running them for a few seasons now. A couple of flats, but I wouldn't blame it on the tires. I generally run my pressure close to 60 PSI. Not to mention, there isn't a lot of rocks in the places I have spent most of my time riding. I suppose trying them out for the cost is worth it. If I blow out a couple, then maybe I convert to tubeless, or suck it up and run a heavier tube.

    Neil

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmeister
    I generally run my pressure close to 60 PSI.
    Neil
    That hurts just reading it! That reminds of the days of low volume tires and getting your back hammered to death. At least you have full suspension.

    I have pinch flat nightmares with lightweight tubes run at 40 psi in any kind of Python. 60 would be much different, but I can't even imagine how bad the cornering characteristics of a tire pumped that high would be. You should check out Hutchinson's recommended pressure for riders of different weights on the back of the tire package. The highest listed is 43 for a hundred kilo rider. I'm between 70 and 80, so I'm pretty average.
    As regal as a Buick!

  16. #16
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    40 Psi???

    Quote Originally Posted by kingfurby
    That hurts just reading it! That reminds of the days of low volume tires and getting your back hammered to death. At least you have full suspension.

    I have pinch flat nightmares with lightweight tubes run at 40 psi in any kind of Python. 60 would be much different, but I can't even imagine how bad the cornering characteristics of a tire pumped that high would be. You should check out Hutchinson's recommended pressure for riders of different weights on the back of the tire package. The highest listed is 43 for a hundred kilo rider. I'm between 70 and 80, so I'm pretty average.
    I was very surprised when I read your post, so I just went and had a look at my tires. Maximum 80 PSI. I have to say 40 PSI feels like riding on flats to me. I can't say I have any issues with cornering. And not to seem arrogant, I am typically on the above average side of the speed scale on downhills and singletrack. I was having issues with pinch flats with regular tubes running that low in the past. Not to mention, I couldn't believe how much the rolling resistance felt with the firmer tire. My personal preference is to run on the high end. Anywthing under 45 PSI feels like riding on flats to me. I am at about 90kg myself...I will have to check into the recommended pressures further to see how much I could be jeopardizing performance. Thanks.

    Neil

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmeister
    Hey Andrew,

    Thanks for the reply. A little off topic, but do you hit Albion much? I am a former Bolton resident that spent a lot of time there and may have seen you there on occasion. I ride the Tuesday night series as well as both 24hrs...

    Anyhow, thanks for the reply. As far as weighing the rockers, I'll have to get back to you on that. Having read your reply, I think that I may have got the shaft there and they may actually be aluminum. However, I got a smokin deal on the bike so I can't really complain. I have spoken to the LBS about a Deus Crank and new BB that would get me significant weight savings right away. Also, I have been running run of the mill tubes which I will also change. Spokes was a new one. I hadn't really thought much about trimming weight until now, so all of the suggestions are good. I will check out the rockers and get back to you.

    Neil
    Rockers - the stock aluminum one's on my '03 weigh in at 173 grams for the pair, with the Japan bearings in them and the stock steel bolts. The carbon one's are unmistakeable in appearance.

    Spokes - you also get the benefit of reducing rotating weight. Static and dynamic weight savings - can't go wrong. Price should be around $1/spoke and nipple Canadian$ if you "buy right" (alloy nipples are included when you buy DT's, eh ). Just watch what you buy with your weight (no offense meant, of course). Might want to double-check in the Wheels forum?

    Crank - looks like a very respectable choice.

    Albion - 2-5 times/week. It's very convenient for me to go there after work. Gotta hit Kelso more this year - amongst others.


    Tube pressure - holy crap! I'm afraid to pump ANY of my tires up to 45 psi. They're like a rock. My scrawny 165-pound-when-loaded butt has me running 28-32 depending on the tire. Hey, it's all relative, right?
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad

    not entirely familiar with your wheels, but have you weighed em? 317 are now 717's so...
    Really? so the xm 317s that came on my new Heckler are really 717s? I was at mavics website and was wondering why my rims look nothing like the 317s listed which are only offered in grey and mine are black. So after reading your post, I went back to mavics site and my 317s are spitting images of the 717s they have listed. very interesting. I was gonna upgrade them soon, but they don't seem too bad. How did you find this out, and what is your opinion on them?

  19. #19
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    It's not new news, the 317 had a name change to the 717, the X3.1 tubeless became the 819 and most of the other Mavic rims changed names.. At this same time, the 517 rim was discontinued. The 717 rims are nice lightweight racing/XC rim. Slightly lighter then a DT 4.1, but not quite as strong, but still a very respected rim.


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    It's not new news, the 317 had a name change to the 717, the X3.1 tubeless became the 819 and most of the other Mavic rims changed names.. At this same time, the 517 rim was discontinued. The 717 rims are nice lightweight racing/XC rim. Slightly lighter then a DT 4.1, but not quite as strong, but still a very respected rim.
    sorry bro, it's new news to a noob like me. I just bought my Heckler a week ago, so i'm still trying to catch up on the common biking knowledge.
    <----- reference join date (avid backpacker that was drawn in by a bright light)
    I went to take a second look at mine, and they are labeled 317 Disc which doesn't exist on mavics product list. So, thanks for the information.
    Last edited by Sway?; 03-10-2006 at 10:37 PM.

  21. #21
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    -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable
    According to my scale, the FSA stem (105mm) is 120 and the SLR XP (kevlar sides) is 180.
    I though the easton stem was much heavier!
    A second hand wheelset will be a good investment however, I would also move it at the top of the list
    fab
    i think i got the FSA weight quickly from the weightwennies website and the easton stem weight, from the easton site. i think i used the "about" no two of any are ever the exact same. too many XP models to get THAT weight right. OK a really light model of SLR might be 150 grams. not the first thing that needs changing anyway.

    yeah, wheels and tires are the most important.

  22. #22
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    wasting time

    Quote Originally Posted by Sway?
    Really? so the xm 317s that came on my new Heckler are really 717s? I was at mavics website and was wondering why my rims look nothing like the 317s listed which are only offered in grey and mine are black. So after reading your post, I went back to mavics site and my 317s are spitting images of the 717s they have listed. very interesting. I was gonna upgrade them soon, but they don't seem too bad. How did you find this out, and what is your opinion on them?
    i think i found it out by doing this right here... spending time on the MTBR forun rather than getting down to work! pretty sure about that one though, that it was just a name change and 317 or 717 (samething) are considered a good light weight rim. many xc racer use them on their race wheels, but they are also pretty durable (if not abused).

    no need to upgrade those rims. what hubs and spokes do you have? BTW, heclers are awsome, test rode one last summer. if i had $4K laying around, i would be out riding it right now! have fun noob.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad
    i think i found it out by doing this right here... spending time on the MTBR forun rather than getting down to work! pretty sure about that one though, that it was just a name change and 317 or 717 (samething) are considered a good light weight rim. many xc racer use them on their race wheels, but they are also pretty durable (if not abused).

    no need to upgrade those rims. what hubs and spokes do you have? BTW, heclers are awsome, test rode one last summer. if i had $4K laying around, i would be out riding it right now! have fun noob.
    thanks!

    1- I have deore hubs and black ss spokes (i think brass nipples?)

    2- Hecklers don't have to cost $4k. I bought the cheap version ($1584.00) sold as the D AM complete bike http://www.santacruzmtb.com/heckler/index.php?pricing=1
    I've upgraded the front fork from the POS Tora U-turn to a Fox Vanilla RLC ($339.00 right now on PP - Use link from mtbr.com ONLY-it doesn't show if you go straight to their site). Since you always change the water pump when your replacing the timing belt, I upgraded the headset to a FSA pig when I swapped forks. So, i'm only in it a hair over $2k so far, and I love it.

    Thanks for your help!

  24. #24
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    Correction, I was on something...

    Quote Originally Posted by kingfurby
    That hurts just reading it! That reminds of the days of low volume tires and getting your back hammered to death. At least you have full suspension.

    I have pinch flat nightmares with lightweight tubes run at 40 psi in any kind of Python. 60 would be much different, but I can't even imagine how bad the cornering characteristics of a tire pumped that high would be. You should check out Hutchinson's recommended pressure for riders of different weights on the back of the tire package. The highest listed is 43 for a hundred kilo rider. I'm between 70 and 80, so I'm pretty average.
    Okay, I am not sure what sort of glue I was into, but I went for a ride yesterday on the road for the first time in 06' (I am in Canada, and don't care much for winter riding). I obviously checked pressures prior to heading out. In doing so, I realized that I was incorrect in how much aire I typically ride with. It is more like 45-50 PSI, which is still firm. However, I am going to try the lightweight tubes when the trails open in a couple of months and have some spares with me just in case. Thanks for the reality check.

    Neil

  25. #25
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    I did get the shaft...

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Crank and BB - Bye Bye. Race Face Next, Turbine or if you aren't a Clyde then Extralite (hey, you said the CFO approve $1K). God only knows what BB is in there. Both - out!

    Your wheels aren't too bad, at the very least you could just do the spokes and nipples. As previously mentioned - check the tire beads and see what you've got for tubes. I've been running Bontrager SuperLights - ~120 grams each and inexpensive ($4/tube up here).

    If you can live without the riser bar then i'd get a Scandium handlebar. There's a few that are being made by Control Tech's manufacturer under different names. It's a 600mm bar, with 6* bend and weighs around 117 grams. Usually had for around $60-65 US.

    Syntace stem. Period.

    Seatpost - i'd say Thompson, but you aren't saving much weight there. Certainly not worth calling "bang for the buck". From what i've come to understand, Giant's carbon post weighs less than 200 - find one on E-Bay. Bonus as it's a "correct" part for the bike.

    There, you should still have a few bucks left over for flowers for the wife. OH, I mean CFO.


    Now, since i've done my part, can I ask YOU for a favour?????? Can you PLEEEEAAAASE weigh your composite rockers? PLLLLEEEEEEEAAAAASSE?!?!??!??!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?! Thanks.
    Hey Andrew,

    I did get the shaft on the rockers. Funny I never noticed it when I got it a year ago. I've got the alum ones. Now I will be checking into finding out the cost and where to buy the carbon ones. Sorry, no point in weighing those for you.

    Neil

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