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  1. #1
    Recovering couch patato
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    Another light Scalpel : Christophe Sauser's Olympic bike

    Report here

    I'll give you the Alu brake rotors. what else is worth mentioning? Text is in Dutch, so good luck!
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  2. #2
    Trail rider and racer
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    New Six13 Design like frame as in carbon used in mainframe.
    Sram chain and cassette
    Triple Ti Eggies
    Pythons
    Cool carbon bar ends with lockout built into them.


    Sweet bike.
    Trev!

  3. #3
    6x7=Dont Panic!
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    I am not seeing a wire going from the bar end to the shock. I wonder how tehy did that. Its a pretty cool idea. Kinda reminds me of those xtr bar end shifters.
    Herro prease

  4. #4
    Trail rider and racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedMantra
    I am not seeing a wire going from the bar end to the shock. I wonder how tehy did that. Its a pretty cool idea. Kinda reminds me of those xtr bar end shifters.
    Probably run through the bar end through the bar, but that begs the question of where the cable terminates, presumably it is near the stem which means putting a hole in the bar, which probably isnt hard for the techs working on Sauser's bikes.

    Its a mighty nice bike.

    Its got to be very light - perhaps very low 10Kg mark.
    Trev!

  5. #5
    nightriding is fun !
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    Here you can find all the pictures.

    Christophe Sausers' 9.5Kg Scalpel
    Titanium or Bust !

  6. #6
    Trail rider and racer
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    Very nice stuff - the bike looks great - thats a top weight and that workshop is hot stuff.

    Trev!

  7. #7
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    are those alu or ti bolts? theire everywhere! very nice bike and sauser is riding pretty fast this year. i wouldnt be surprised if he arrives athens with the gold medal.
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  8. #8
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    typical Cannondale...big hype for nothing!

    sorry to dissapoint you guys but that bike is once again a "blender bike" by Cannondale:
    in the actual german roadie magazine they tested several high-end roadbikes with mixed materials (Al-Carbon) and the new Cannondale SIX13 top flagship was rated lower than the so far best CAAD7 frameset....the C'dale roadie frame got 80 g heavier and has less stiffness in the headtube as a result of the carbon mid-sections in the frameset! they even suggest heavier riders to get the CAAD5 Al-Frame which ist stiffer than the CAAD7 let alone this piece of garbage. now this was for the roadie but i guess the effect in the MTB frame is no different.

    spectacular looking but no real advantage at all - that's what i call a typical Cannondale.

    nevertheless Sauser is one of the favourites for the olympic race.he is in great shape recently and i sure hope he can keep his momentum for the upcoming race. Hopp Schwiiz!

  9. #9
    nightriding is fun !
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlos
    are those alu or ti bolts? theire everywhere! very nice bike and sauser is riding pretty fast this year. i wouldnt be surprised if he arrives athens with the gold medal.
    they are titanium bolts with a gold anodized finish..
    Titanium or Bust !

  10. #10
    nightriding is fun !
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    Nino, personally I couldn't care less about that Cannondale, I've had one once and it was a good bike, but I have better bikes now

    I'm just interested in the titanium bits on his bike
    Titanium or Bust !

  11. #11
    jonny_mac
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    blender??????????????

    nino what do you mean "blender"? c'dales bikes have never been blender, everything
    is their own and not the norm. have u ever ridden a carbon lefty? best working
    fork there is for xc and a true 3 lbs. their hollowgram crank bb is not normal
    and is the stiffest and one of the lightest out there. u rag anything that is american,
    i hate to break it to you but "scott" is a US co. they started in america as
    "scott usa" and built a big manufacturing plant in switzerland. Being from mx
    i would have thought u would have known. ever wear scott goggles? that is all u do is
    quote what u read, i have read tests on the scandium ht and they said it felt noodly
    to the point it would ghost shift in the rear. but of course u have no issues. scotts
    fs bike is the epitome of ugly and a real Piece of sh*t! every test i have read they all
    loved the 613. ANY co. can build a ht, but only real co's can design a fs bike. and the
    only good fs bikes come from american co's. u had better research your "scott"
    co a little more because they are not fully engineered in switzerland but america, and
    they are built in taiwan. i have had conversations with u on bikes and mx, and u really
    dont have a clue what u r talking about. u think u do but u dont, and everything u use
    is always the best and u have no problems with it,

  12. #12
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    He's right on the Six13 carbon mix stuff. It's a waste of resources and all of the so called tests you've read have absolutely no objective data or any amount of consistency to back up their findings. They're nothing more than advertising vehicles for the industry. Does this mean it's a lousy bike? No. Is it a scam to launch something and claim it's completely new and improved but actually a little worse than last years stuff? You tell me.
    Last edited by divve; 08-18-2004 at 01:17 PM.

  13. #13
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    u have problem-huh?

    hey u guy i think u have a serious problem.
    why carbon inserts when it doesn't improve a thing, tell me? it gets heavier and flexier - hmm, wait a minute, maybe that's to help the little rear end travel the C'dale has? or maybe the bike was too good before and they want to allow the competition to catch up again?
    ahh- but it looks good. some weaves in the midsection make impression, right? gives you the impression of riding a light bike...hmm.
    oh - and didn't we forget about C'dales venture into motorcycling?completely different but ...completely useless too.

  14. #14
    Max
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    maybe off-topic, but i doubt most riders will feel any difference between several bikes' frame stiffness. german bike tests try to explain everything in facts and figures. readers always want a single winner, a product that beats anything else available. but life aint black and white only.

    why flame a tire with a 3 watts higher RR if he suits my riding style best?

    i dont say all german bike tests are crap, but i just wanted to remind you guys that there might be a world beyond testing machines, labs and numbers.....


    Skinny guys fight 'til they're burger

  15. #15
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    Go out and ride a Six13 and a CAAD7 with identical components. You won't notice the difference except for 2000 Euro less in your wallet.

  16. #16
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    Are electric lockouts fair?

    (somewhat O.T and I’m sure I'll get hammered for this)

    Or is electric shifting fair for that matter? I guess my point is that if any device works using an external power source independent of the force generated by the cyclist, then I think that is an unfair advantage-although its hardly like having a motor attached to you bike.

    I think the idea should be for the cyclist to supply all the effort required to move the thing. Hydraulic brakes would be O.K I guess, because they are not relying on an independent power source to actuate them. Am I being anal here? O,K I’m being anal, but hey I just was wondering what others thought about this.

  17. #17
    Max
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    not unfair. what about heart rate monitors? every rider uses one to train within a certain heart rate in order to become faster. what about altimeters? or speedometers? just my thoughts on this


    Skinny guys fight 'til they're burger

  18. #18
    Get your freak on!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    not unfair. what about heart rate monitors? every rider uses one to train within a certain heart rate in order to become faster. what about altimeters? or speedometers? just my thoughts on this
    Nope not unfair. You heard about those newish Rotor cranks? The ones that yo get about 20% more speed or something crazy! Now those are unfair! Yet lots of road riders have started to use them...
    Now theres something that is 'unfair' to other riders.

  19. #19
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    Maybe it's a prototype wireless lockout? Probably not, but how neat would that be..?
    --------------------------------------------------
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  20. #20
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    I reckon you're onto something. I like the idea of the bicycle showcasing the pinnacle of mechanical engineering (optimised tubing, sophisticated fork internals, etc) but avoiding electronics. There's a kind of beauty in an exquisitely crafted and functional mechanical system. I'd hate my bike to feel like a Gameboy. I was just going to say it's hard to fix failed electronics on the trail, but then I realised the same argument applies to high tech mechanical systems anyway. Maybe I've just got something against electrickery..
    --------------------------------------------------
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  21. #21
    Are you talking to me?
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    Nope to the prototype.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflexPoint
    Maybe it's a prototype wireless lockout? Probably not, but how neat would that be..?
    I have the 2005 dealer info in front of me, and neither the carbon tubes or the bar end lockout made the cut fo 05.
    gfy

  22. #22
    Max
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    Nope not unfair. You heard about those newish Rotor cranks? The ones that yo get about 20% more speed or something crazy! Now those are unfair! Yet lots of road riders have started to use them...
    Now theres something that is 'unfair' to other riders.

    those rotor cranks are SAID to give you 20 % more speed. just like those bikedrive-cranks, which were advertised to make your bike feel like a 4kg machine.

    very big BS IMO. all racers i know and tested them quickly removed them again cuz they didnt like the mushy feel when spinning.


    however, the rotor cranks help riders to learn how to crank efficiently. ya know, how to spin the gears all way round instead of just pushing down the pedals and stuff.

    basically each crank can be spinned around individually, thus forcing the rider to spin each crank 360° instead of stomping left-right-left-right. hope you understand what i mean.

    if you go riding on a track racing bike you will obtain similar effects. so nothing unfair here. however, i wouldnt believe in those +20% figures. after some time riding clipless pedals, anybody will learn how to crank gears properly with an almost even power output


    Skinny guys fight 'til they're burger

  23. #23
    Get your freak on!
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    [QUOTE=Max]those rotor cranks are SAID to give you 20 % more speed. just like those bikedrive-cranks, which were advertised to make your bike feel like a 4kg machine.

    Yes I know what you mean, but they claim theres a 'dead spot' at the top of the crank where you can't get any power into. And thats where the Rotor cranks come into..
    But yes, I know what your saying, the reviews i have read about them were promising, but they did have their faults(such as the 1300gram weight!)

  24. #24
    jonny_mac
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    nino

    c'dales venture into mx was a failure, but should i go on and list the euro's failures
    in mx also. if u had an ounce of engineering background u would know that numbers
    spit out of a test machine do not fully carry over to real world applications, they are used
    as a guide. when designing something fea software is used as a guide not as the
    sole testing because real parts are not perfect as cad data is. i have not ridden
    a scott ht frame, only read they are flexy, as all you do is read and probably
    misunderstand what u r reading. i don't understand your big thing with scott
    as they r an american co. that cant produce a good fs bike, and fs is the future. u have
    no technical background, you just spit out what u read and think everything you do
    is the best, and that is the first sign of ignorance. 1 person cant be the authority
    on all as u think u r. listening to what you write all the time i can tell you have
    no engineering education or experience and once someone puts u in your place
    u just dont respond to it. just like the fact that your beloved scott co. is
    from the good ol usa. magazines are a couple of peoples opinions, and everyone has
    one of those. so german bike is not the bible, just an opinion. go back to scrapin
    turds off of statues and grindin all excess material off your bike because i will
    agree u r an expert at those 2 things.

  25. #25
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    Did you read the Six13 manual yet? It says you have to let your bike cool off or warm up to ambient temperature before you ride it

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny_mac
    go back to scrapin
    turds off of statues and grindin all excess material off your bike because i will
    agree u r an expert at those 2 things.
    I think we should call you jonny_spack attack. I still haven't stopped laughing at the turd comment, but man, why have you got it in for that poor guy? So he loves Scotts and you don't? Jeez, Louise..

    'i have not ridden a scott ht frame, only read they are flexy, as all you do is read and probably misunderstand what u r reading'. Please correct me, but haven't you been flaming the poor guy for regurgitating what he reads without knowing the product?

    Go have a little lie down with some cucumber slices on your eyelids..
    --------------------------------------------------
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    'You already did put me in a home!.'
    'We'll put you in that crooked home we saw on sixty minutes!'
    'I'll be good.'

  27. #27
    mtbr member
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    Ullrich uses an AX-Lighteness saddle/seatpost combo. I guess you also forgot about KTM? Not Swiss but European nevertheless....and what's so good about being the largest military might and superpower? When push really comes to shove it will only take a few nukes from any given country to cancel out the US beyond repair. Nothing to gain there.

  28. #28
    jonny_mac
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    a recent pic of ullrich showed that combo breaking too, so alot of
    good that does. dont put ktm in the same sentence with the japanese
    in terms of mx. u could also talk about husky's too but they aren't anywhere
    near the same league as a jap bike. that ktm scared mcgrath so much
    he retired, he didnt feel safe on the thing at speed. this isnt a euro bashing,
    it is simply calling out nino and the fact he simply repeats what he reads and
    thinks he knows all, and i'm just showing that he really doesnt know what he
    is talking about. his way is the best and nobody elses input matters in his
    eyes. i like the info on this site, but am tired of nino thinking he knows all
    and he really doesn't know that much when it comes down to it. personally
    i dont think the guy rides much because those bikes wouldnt hold up. no pro
    xc guys ride bikes that light because the bike becomes hard to control
    when it gets too light. anyone who can ride a bar that is 520mm offroad
    isnt riding much more than a dirt sidewalk. that is narrower than what the
    women run, well i guess i just answered my own question. i will say this, he
    is the master at regirgitating weights, so he is helpful there, but as far as him
    having anything knowledgable to say about engineering and technical aspects
    he really hasn't a clue. i would be surprised if he has any education beyond
    high school. so for him to give advice about using aluminum bolts here and
    where he can grind and not effect the structure he is clueless.

  29. #29
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    big laugh....

    oops- how easy you guys are to be offended when faced with some pure facts.my comment was NOT anti-US. just saying that C'dales carbon inserts don't do any better than the regular aluminium frame - period. the CAAD7 frame was actually measured in both weight and stiffness (headtube and BB) and as i already said the new "carbon" C'dale was both heavier (80g for the same size!) and weaker in the headtube. so all i said is that this hyped "carbon-look-a-like" frame is for nothing. that's it. it may raise C'dale sales as most people get wet eyes when carbon is mixed in. makes a bike look a lot lighter and gives it a high-end touch but in the real world it doesn't affect a thing. they could also place some fake carbon sticker and most probably get a lighter frame by doing so...

    i don't know why you enter Scott here? but saying they are weak shows you have no clue about them. the Scott Team Issue HT as well as the CR1 roadbike blow the competition in both weight and stiffness. the CR1 roadframe gets actually used by other teams too repainting the frames with other makes colours ( Team Gerolsteiner with Rebellin for example, winner of several worldcup races and actually in the lead in the worldcup rankings on a "Wilier" bike, a repainted CR1...). the Genius FS is another big leap forward in FS designs. the new Carbon Genius will be one of the lightest FS frames available (2130g including rear shock). if you like it or not doesn't enter here. I personally have never seen an uglier bike than the new C'dale "Gemini" or whatever that bike is called.looks like a mix of an old Delta-V and some taiwan made singlepivot swingarm design. it may be a good bike but painfully ugly in my eyes. the Genius are light and stiff and do a great job. no look-a-like carbon fakes either...the new Scott Scale carbon HT frameset weighs 970g. now that's a weight only a handful of roadie manufacturers achieve let alone mountainbikes. if Scott was founded in the US or elsewhere doesn't matter. who by the way designed the Specialized rear-end? Horst Leitner, an Austrian guy...anyway - it's not about which countries a bike is made , it's about how good they are and the Scalpel is for sure a good bike. i'ver never said anything against it!!! it's just that the hype about the new C'dale technology is nothing more than pure marketing. and C'dale is big at marketing. that's what they are really good at.

    and please, don't talk about MX as i'm sure you aren't even able to tell what motocross is all about. i spent "half" of my life on the racetracks, tuning and wrenching on my bikes and believe me, i can ride pretty fast too. compared to MX a MTB is like mickey mouse to me in both technical aspects as well as riding it so please don't make me laugh, ok?

    i welcome you to ride with me! if my handlebar is 520 or 560mm won't give you a clue on how fast i go. you wouldn't be the first who gets passed by a wimpy HT...

    and for those who believe Scott has no FS:
    <img src="http://gallery.mtbr.com/uploads/mtbr/234840/genius.jpg">

  30. #30
    Fuel Master
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    Most interesting is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Report here

    I'll give you the Alu brake rotors. what else is worth mentioning? Text is in Dutch, so good luck!
    The toppull DA front derailleur! Only seen downpull DA Front derailleurs before... anyone knows something?

  31. #31
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    Just one thing though, due to the lightness of the new Scott CR1 road bikes there have be an increasing number of them literally breaking in half in crashes that weren't all that severe. This is just pure speculation on my part but I think if any pro falls at a wrong angle riding one of the carbon Scotts during the Olympics it's going to break in half as well (I really do mean in half). The frame is very strong in fatigue testing but that isn't the same as actually having someone ride it and experiencing unintended loads. Just look at the wall thickness around the seat post clamp. It's paper thin....I realize they're pure racing frames etc., but there is a price to pay for 200 grams less than the norm. It's not all gain without loss.
    Last edited by divve; 08-19-2004 at 11:35 AM.

  32. #32
    jonny_mac
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    nino u r a joke. address the issues. i never said scotts were weak, i said i read a test and
    said the frame was flexy, i have never ridden one so i cant comment, i am just doing
    what u r doing, printing an opinion i read. u said c'dales were cookie cutter, yet they r
    innovative. the scalpel is better looking than the scott, dont get off course into the free
    ride zone. i raced mx for 10yrs, and now i race mtb and the road. i also work as a
    design engineer in the auto world, where r your credentials, thats what i thought. do you
    believe pros r using off the shelf scott frames? i never said scott doesnt have a fs, just
    not a good one. being the absolute lightest doesnt mean the best. ernesto colnago
    was quoted "i can build a lighter frame, but it is a balance of weight to ride quality",
    you just dont get it. racing mx as u claim doesnt make you an engineer, look at
    robbie "retard" reynard, not very bright but a pro mxer. many people smoke me
    on ht's, heavy fs and even single speeds, whats your point. as i said before you
    r qualified as a turd scraper and nothing more.

  33. #33
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    Chill out people...

    I have a couple comments
    1. Even Steel frames can break catastrophically when hitting a rock wrong.

    2. I'm confused, if you want to race a FS why not go all the way and race a FS rather than use a design that looks exactly like a mid nineties Specialized FSR WITHOUT a pivot???? I dont get it. If you want the benefits of a FS why not use a epic or blur type active suspension. Otherwise stick with a hardtail. My thoughts anyway.

    3. Cannondale makes very very nice aluminum frames. They should be proud of that and stick with it.

    4. Ok I'm really curious about the whole lefty thing. Looks crazy but I've never tried. Are they really that stiff/light/work that well? If so why hasnt the whole biking world switched to something like that and a 1 1/4 inch headset??

    5. Either way that is a cool looking bike, and that lockout on the barend is SOOOOOO trick

  34. #34
    strip it down
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    I scraped a turd off a seat once so I could sit down

    Yes.......I am also a turd scraper......
    No to defend Nino because I don't personally know him, but he has been stand up on the business side....which is a small indication of character if you ask me.....
    I think when he said "Blender" - he meant companies that are blending the aluminum, and carbon - or titanium and carbon....which is a current trend..... I believe they are doing it for COMFORT above anything else.....
    There's nothing like having the world under your wheels......

  35. #35
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    oh well....

    i repeat once again: the germans tested the new-style C'dale and compared it to the top of the line Al-CAAD7 and they found the new one to be heavier and weaker both on the road and in the lab. so that's impressions backed up by actual numbers. what's your problem in accepting that this "new technology" has no benefits at all? it's for the looks and will sure help raise the sales and the image...oh - i studied 3 years architecture before doing something real if that's something that you will accept as "credentials". how many languages do you talk and write? does that mean you are a dumb ass if you don't know more than 1? NO...if you say Scott has no good FS than you definitely didn't ride one. i did and although i don't ride a FS myself i tried many,many different makes and the Scott definitely felt good. it's not about beeing the lightest you are right but light weight is a big plus on a racing bike and that's what we are talking about. light weight (what's this forum all about?) and racing (the thread is about Sausers olympic weapon, right?).

    what's your point qualifying people by their handlebar width then? you better address YOUR issues yourself.

    why has this to be so personal when it's about pure facts?

  36. #36
    Max
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    we sukcers can indeed! a friend of mine built a 1 1/8" steerer lefty with a marzocchi replacement steerer tube. mounted to a custom carbon HT frame he had made on his own.

    my best friend races a genius (yes, he's a FS-only racer). he says it's great. however i dont like it at all..... the look of the frame sucks, the geometry and everything just looks weird. plus i dont think it's that innovative to introduce a bike where you constantly have to turn a lever in order to make the rear suspension work properly. the bike aint light either!

    riding both a sub 9kg hardtail and a 9.9 kg disc-equipped XTC NRS full-susser, i know the advantages of each bikes. i love the way the NRS suspension works. as soon as riding faster than average café-cruising-speed, the suspension doesnt bob even one mm, while still suspending all the bumps. great XC-racing bike, even without a lock-out!


    Skinny guys fight 'til they're burger

  37. #37
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    Have you ever wondered why the US gets so much undeserved bad press? '..where last time I checked we still have the largest economy, the greatest military might, and are regarded as THE Superpower'. 'English is the predominat (sic) language-who cares about the others?'

    Some of those things are true, but you don't have to point them out to win an argument on bicycles for god's sake. Stop acting like an arrogant jerk and realise that the world doesn't revolve around the US like you're taught in school.
    --------------------------------------------------
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    'You already did put me in a home!.'
    'We'll put you in that crooked home we saw on sixty minutes!'
    'I'll be good.'

  38. #38
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    It's pretty sad you think you require the military in order to invent new stuff. The real reason is that so much money is pumped into it to support special interest groups. Give half a trillion bucks to anyone and I guarantee they'll come up with some new and improved widgets. Regarding the internet, it took CERN in Switzerland before you could use it conveniently with a web browser didn't it? Without it no one would care about the net. Sure, Ulrich's Giant is so advanced that Zabel and half the T-Mobile team won't even ride it.

  39. #39
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    military?! thats just marketing. yes the military might use the material but at the very same time the technology is found in everyday uses. just like if nasa uses aluminum, they would say our tubing is from NASA technology

  40. #40
    Max
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    side note: not everybody at gerolsteiner rides the repainted C1. the "wilier" bike with the blue and black paint scheme is a C1, that's right. b
    ut the sprinters like robert förster and danilo hondo prefer the Wilier Alloy tubing frame over the C1, which is a original Wilier. painted all blue. hmmmmmmm why?


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  41. #41
    nightriding is fun !
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    No good

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflexPoint
    Some of those things are true, but you don't have to point them out to win an argument on bicycles for god's sake. Stop acting like an arrogant jerk and realise that the world doesn't revolve around the US like you're taught in school.
    Amen to that. Although Mr America has some valid points I am getting the impression he is only here because of some personal beef with Mr Switserland and I for one don't think personal feuds should be fought on public forums...
    As far as I'm concerned. Scott USA for me is a Swiss company , where the money comes from? Yes, that could be American and some if not all of their bikes are made in Taiwan but the top carbon bikes are designed in Switserland by Peter Denk's little company.
    Titanium or Bust !

  42. #42
    Max
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad Wolf
    Amen to that. Although Mr America has some valid points I am getting the impression he is only here because of some personal beef with Mr Switserland and I for one don't think personal feuds should be fought on public forums...
    As far as I'm concerned. Scott USA for me is a Swiss company , where the money comes from? Yes, that could be American and some if not all of their bikes are made in Taiwan but the top carbon bikes are designed in Switserland by Peter Denk's little company.
    amen.

    but in general, i sometimes find it hard to tell where a company comes from these days. take cars as an example: where does your company come from? the engine is bought from a german company, designed by swedish engineers living in france, the departement is in spain, the assembly line is located overseas and the owner (the shareholders) are located all over the world.....


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  43. #43
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    If you buy a Ferarri you know it comes from Italy

  44. #44
    try driving your car less
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedMantra
    I am not seeing a wire going from the bar end to the shock. I wonder how tehy did that. Its a pretty cool idea. Kinda reminds me of those xtr bar end shifters.
    2 knopjes voor de lock-out van de Lefty (deze knopjes staan gewoon parallel, en kunnen dus door elkaar gebruikt worden)

    I think they could just run a wire inside the bar end, and then underneath the grip and shifter to the other button. I think they both do the same thing: lock out the lefty (based on my loose translation of a language I do not speak). In any case, that is very very very cool.

    Only boring people get bored.

  45. #45
    nightriding is fun !
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    2 knopjes voor de lock-out van de Lefty (deze knopjes staan gewoon parallel, en kunnen dus door elkaar gebruikt worden)
    Indeed, what it says here is:
    2 knobs for the Lefty-lockout (these knobs are mounted in (a) parallel (circuit), so can be used alternatively)
    Titanium or Bust !

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by divve
    If you buy a Ferarri you know it comes from Italy
    unfortunately most of us dont own one. and even if they could afford one, they'd spend it on bikes i guess

    ain't the leather seat covers made from genuine Argentinian leather? or was it lamborghini?


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  47. #47
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    Eh, I maybe missing something here but...

    the pic of the Scalpel I'm lookin' at most definately shows a bottom-pull derailleur!

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