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  1. #1
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    7912 "Super Poodle"

    So this is my pathetic attempt at weightweenie life. I failed to get under 17lbs which is sort of depressing. A few of the weights are not confirmed-the chain and the weight of the FSA cups removed. I neglected to weigh the FSA cups when I removed them after including them in the total weight of the frame. I need to confirm how much weight the eclipse actually weighs but I'm too lethargic at the moment. As you can see below I wrote this out like crap.

    Okay so here's the build:

    Cage Tune ------------------ 11
    BB Token ----------------- 186 w/bolts
    Ultra levers ------------------ 65
    Vuelta/tuned ------------------ 253 w/pads/noodles
    Cables ------------------ 195 (shift wires w/shifters below)
    Cassette D/A ------------------ 181
    Chainguard ------------------ 28
    Chain KMC X10sl------------------ 237*
    Crankset Power arms
    20-Tune Titan
    32/42 Carbon ti
    Alloy bolts
    Total Crankset -----------------441
    F/Der XTR-952 ----------------- 126
    R/Der D/A Tuned ------------------ 157
    Fork Spinner Ares ------------------1271
    Scott Scale XL ------------------- 1100 (1117 FSA cups-removed guess at 1100)
    Grips Foam ------------------- 24
    Bar Schmolke -------------------- 111
    ScaleHead H/S -------------------- 52 (Cups and top cap and bolt)
    H/S spacer carbon ------------------- 6
    Triple Ti Peddles ------------------- 179 (Short axle)
    Quick releases ------------------- 66 (Steel bolt on)
    Seat binder Scott ------------------ 14
    Seat Becker carbon -------------------59
    Post NewUltimate --------------------- 157 w/shim
    Shifter XT w/wires --------------------- 252 (indicators removed/alloy bolts)
    Stem Syntace/ti --------------------- 105
    Tires R.Ralph ---------------------- 497
    R.Ralph ----------------------- 491
    Eclipse Tubeless ----------------------- 220 (not verified/ stock weight?)
    Wheelset
    Mig70 Mag180
    Mavic 717 cermanic
    DT Aero 32/32
    Total Wheels----------------------- 1408
    Grease and stuff ------------------------ 20

    Total Total 7912 17.442

    In reality I think the tubless system ways more then 220 front and rear. I would like to loose 300 grams somehow to get me under 17lbs. I hope to ride it tomorrow but it's pretty cold. Obviously I still need to button down the zip ties and wires.

    Questions comments complaints. Any ideas on loosing some further weight safely would be appreciated.
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  2. #2
    JMH
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    Yes...

    You could save a few grams by trimming your brake cables to the correct length. Slob.

    JMH

    EDIT-

    Yep, I see you mentioned the cables. But still.

    Questions comments complaints. Any ideas on loosing some further weight safely would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

  3. #3
    I love Pisgah
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    What size RRalphs?

  4. #4
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    R.R's 2.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman
    What size RRalphs?
    The Racing Ralphs are 2.1.

  5. #5
    Get your freak on!
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    Have you thought about a roadie front deraileur, using a BTP braze on clamp?


  6. #6
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    unless you really want ceramic rims maybe rebuild the wheels with american classic or stan's rims - get conti explorer supersonic's or michelin xcr dry's for similar tyres to the rr but lighter. put some sram rocket gripshifters on, ti bolt on skewers and alloy/ti bolt tuning everywhere. you could probably get a lighter bar aswell.

  7. #7
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    great build...

    ok - since i was the one suggesting/selling all the above parts i can sure say a word or two about making it even lighter:
    Slobberdoggy asked me about a light but durable build. he is no lightweight at around 185 lbs so certain WW-parts just won't be adviseable. the build as is seems perfect to me.there's no part i'd say is too light for his weight. the bike can do races and be ridden all year long. sure you could save some grams here and there but cost to weight ratio would be just insane.

    bigger savings could be found here:

    i was the one suggesting the Ceramic wheelset since brakepower is better and for his weight some ultralight wheels with low spoke count will suffer. ceramic wheels will last a couple of seasons too which you can't say about any lightweight rims. but there is obviously room there...i'd say you could go with Amclassic rims instead of the Mavic ceramics and save about 120g on the wheels.

    next step would be the cable routing! as the Scales are delivered you have to use extremely long continuous housings. so by changing the cable routing (shift cables under the BB like in the old days) you can save about 100g in housings alone. BUT that's not adviseable for everyone as you need to glue-on cablestops to the frame and drill a hole in the BB area to fit a plastic guide....

    then ad a roadie front derailleur with a custom 38mm carbon clamp from BTP and you get a derailleur weight of just 76g....another 50g saved.

    he could then even go with a lightweight scandium BB (tuned just 110g!) but those are for roadbikes and if used on a MTB for light riders only...not really ideal for his weight.

    he likes trigger-style shifters so XT were my choice since on par with XTR but half the cost. ( SRAM XO beeing much heavier and about 4 times the cost)

    no lighter handlebar at his weight!

    steel bolt-ons are stiffer than Ti. once again at his weight i wouldn't go with ti.depends on his riding though. some heylight TT skewers would weigh just 35g.....30g saved.

    not so big saving: a carbon seatclamp saves 7g....he already ordered one.

    by the way- the Eclipse kits weigh 110g per wheel! that's correct. if you would instead run some Maxxis Flyweight inner tubes you would have 90g + rimstrip...ca. 95-100g. so just 15g lighter but then you can just wait for the 1st flat to happen and rollingresistance is more too...so you are far better off with a tubelesskit!

    remember - he was not just looking for a poser bike but a bike that can be ridden all year long! i think we succeeded

  8. #8
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    Only run 2 chainring in front !

    60g saved...

    Maxxis make a tire that weight 310g, they are called maxxlite i belive, maybe they would be nice ?

    Remove the plastic thingy on your v-brake cable, 2g saved !!
    Last edited by Megaclocker; 02-05-2006 at 11:03 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaclocker
    Only run 2 chainring in front !

    60g saved...

    Maxxis make tire that weight 310g, they are called maxlite i beleive, mayve they would be nice ?

    Remove the plastic thingy on your v-brake cable, 2g saved !!
    break out the index and files and start DRILLIN'....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaclocker
    Only run 2 chainring in front !

    60g saved...

    Maxxis make a tire that weight 310g, they are called maxxlite i belive, maybe they would be nice ?

    Remove the plastic thingy on your v-brake cable, 2g saved !!
    uhh-
    a 22t chain ring weighs 18g, the chainring bolts maybe 4g...so that's only 22g saved!

    the Maxxlites are no MTB tires. those are poser tires only.

    removing of the "plastic thingy " indeed saves 2g in cost of dirty cables which in the long run ruin brakepower dramatically.

    this is NO POSER bike!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    uhh-
    a 22t chain ring weighs 18g, the chainring bolts maybe 4g...so that's only 22g saved!

    the Maxxlites are no MTB tires. those are poser tires only.

    removing of the "plastic thingy " indeed saves 2g in cost of dirty cables which in the long run ruin brakepower dramatically.

    this is NO POSER bike!
    sorry...

    I was talking about removing the big ring not the granny...

  12. #12
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    Reflections

    I'm in a better mood today. I thought for sure the frame was too big but after a brief cold ride it is the right size. The top tube height is impressive. However, it does not seem like the kind of bike that would be easy to handle jumping vs. my freestyle bike. The tubeless tires are weird feeling, very squirmy. I cannot comment on much else since it was all on road riding.

    It's tough to take more weight off at this point. A lot of little details will help as many of you have pointed out. My rear der cable housing is a heavy one for example. I didn't understand the cable rerouting method until it was too late, I would have loved the Tiso front der. To lose weight I would consider the Extralight brakes if they are really as light as they say - granted this is only 50 or so grams of saving. I really would like to believe it would be safe for me to run the Mig45/Mag 150 with 28/32 spokes and appropriate non coated rims, perhaps with a stronger rim up front? That is what I am going to seriously consider. Also I should get a Cycling Dynamics rear der/possibly a coated one. I was really hoping to get under 17lbs by going to the becker, rear der tuning, and Extra light headset. Nino talked me out of some lighter stuff like TLO at my weight and my budget held me back at the time.

    I've never had a bike this light but picking it up is not that shocking. I suppose when I move it around, changing directions in the house it does feel light. The super high top tube might make it not seem so light. Look forward to some warmer weather to check it out on the trail! (And of course some posing at Yia Yia's and the coffee houses in my $50 dollar shoes ) Building it was a blast and I kind of want to build more! I love the German and other European parts - not a total materialist or poser, otherwise I would have been posting all that stuff on here long ago, it's just engineering I like privately and thought I would post the final bike here for now.
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    Last edited by Slobberdoggy; 02-05-2006 at 01:31 PM.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Slobberdoggy]
    a couple of notes:

    -definitely use the standard cableclamps if you run the cables like you do! it looks awful right now.

    -keep tires inflated at a minimum of 35 psi to start with. lower settings might feel just as you describe. regular tires are much suppler than UST tires and need a bit more air pressure when ridden with sealant. the setup you have there is about the fastest you can possibly get.

    -have that seatpost shim mounted BELOW the seatpost clamp! now you have it on top and it looks bad.

    -really stay away from the ultrlight stuff if you want to ride it for real. your weight isn't suited for that kind of parts! however if you want really light wheels Extralite might be your 1st choice.

    -Extralite brakes won't save 50g! you calculated the noodles and rubber booties into the Vueltas weight which no-one does. the Vueltas you have weigh 232g and just a set of lighter pads can drop another 60g! as i always pointed out i don't believe the Extralite target weight - at least not before i see a set on a scale! with road-pads such weights are easily done (also with the Vueltas as you can see below) but i want to see them with real MTB pads.

    i just did some tuning to my MTB pads and it allows the Vueltas to weigh just 211g.
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  14. #14
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    As always nino you are peculiarly direct. I'm not sure what you mean by the cable clamps. I couldn't fit one of the cables in the little clips under the top tube so my rear der. cable is just held on with zip ties. The first pic's look bad, I'll admit. Are the three clips under the top tube designed to hold 3 housings?

    Extralite makes it sound like their brakes include noodle and pads although we will see what the weight ends up being. Poshbikes has some sexy pads I might consider however they may not reach the rim properly. They are for Alloy and carbon rims. Can you hook me up with some light pads?




    I need to check the pressure of the tires but I'm fairly certain they are above 40psi - normally I run 55 to 65 w/tubes.

    I was wondering about the shim.

    So nino you would recommend the Extralite wheels over the Tune setup I am suggesting? I am inclined to trust Tune over Extralite (both seem like great companies).

    Dammit nino in this world of 15lb bikes I HAVE TO GO LIGHTER. I thought you would understand. I'm already waking up in the middle of the night thinking about the Clavica crankset although I suppose it wouldn't work.

    Cheers!

  15. #15
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    Pretty nice build Slobberdoggy - money was definitely not an issue here.

    You really don't need to worry about saving any more weight - there's very little you can do without sacrificing performance. In fact I think you have already sacrificed performance with the drivetrain and tires. I would have opted for a mountain cassette (XT/XTR) and X.0 shifters and rear derailleur. Also, at your weight, I would have definitely got the 2.25 RR. I'm 160 lb and would get them - more comfortable, more grip and lower rolling resistance. The weight difference is petty.

  16. #16
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    I'm low mileage but I ride

    I believe I am taking a few risks in the areas you mentioned. I don't ride a whole lot due to my knees so I'm hoping the stuff will last chronologically longer then you might expect. However, if I put on the mileage you guys do, at my weight there would definitely be issues. To be honest, I just wanted to try it and see what happens at my own risk. Coming from bmx, I'm used to stuff breaking. So far I've been lucky in terms of injuries and I suppose that is the ultimate risk.

  17. #17
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    No I mean performance, not reliability. There's absolutely nothing on your build that you have to worry about breaking. Well, maybe the New Ultimate post is pushing it at your weight. Other than that, the ISIS bearings might not last but if you don't ride much then it won't be an issue.

    I'm just talking about performance. I was like you a year ago and was obsessed with trying to save weight any way possible. I already had the same cassette and derailleur as your build and it works fine and is 100% reliable even for racing but it was ridiculous unless you like to ride on the road. I'm still focused on saving weight but not at the expense of performance and my bike will be posted in some gallery. You would enjoy the ride (and be faster!) of the 2.25 RR more regardless of how often you ride.

    Like I said, it's a pretty good build but could be improved at the expense of a bit of weight. You have to choose your priorities I guess...

  18. #18
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    Stop ride there. You built a perfect dream bike. What you'd invest to save 300g will buy you a whole second bike for faul weather riding, which saves you loads of money replacing parts on the Scale. Seriously, stop spending, start riding. You built a bike sub-10% of your vody weight, which is AWESOME, nothing less. $469.99 will buy you a very durable and fun rigid spare bike that weighs almost double, to remind you of how perfect the Scale build really is. Get that Redline Monocog 29er when it becomes available next moneth, and stay in check with regular weight bikes. So you don't get used to life sub-18lb.
    Take care of that bike, it's the first 26"er I've admired in years. I want all the parts on there, apart from rim, tires, frame and fork :-)

  19. #19
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    no problem...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberdoggy
    As always nino you are peculiarly direct. I'm not sure what you mean by the cable clamps. I couldn't fit one of the cables in the little clips under the top tube so my rear der. cable is just held on with zip ties. The first pic's look bad, I'll admit. Are the three clips under the top tube designed to hold 3 housings?

    Extralite makes it sound like their brakes include noodle and pads although we will see what the weight ends up being. Poshbikes has some sexy pads I might consider however they may not reach the rim properly. They are for Alloy and carbon rims. Can you hook me up with some light pads?



    I need to check the pressure of the tires but I'm fairly certain they are above 40psi - normally I run 55 to 65 w/tubes.

    I was wondering about the shim.

    So nino you would recommend the Extralite wheels over the Tune setup I am suggesting? I am inclined to trust Tune over Extralite (both seem like great companies).

    Dammit nino in this world of 15lb bikes I HAVE TO GO LIGHTER. I thought you would understand. I'm already waking up in the middle of the night thinking about the Clavica crankset although I suppose it wouldn't work.

    Cheers!
    hi,

    yes, you shoul be able to fit 3 cables in there. 2 on one side, one on the other!

    lighter is no problem but just as Cloxxki points out below it's going to cost a lot and won't make your bike any better performance-wise.

    we discussed it fore and aft, remember?
    a TLO handlebar would drop about 20g at the expense of double the cost of the already expensive schmolke you have there. but i remember you telling me you were a bmx'er and heavyweight constantly trashing parts....correct? the Schmolke distributor said that at your weight the TLO wasn't ideal anyway.

    those roadpads look REALLY nice BUT they don't have an alignment option. that means they stay only paralel to the brakearms which hinders you in setting them up correctly on your bike. if ever go with Zero-Gravity padholders as those are rounded on the back and allow to be angled. or the Jagwire carbon pads i use. this way the Vueltas weigh also just 192g...see pic of my own Vueltas below!

    if ever i would save weight where a lot can be saved and that is like i said in my 1st reply the wheels and cablerouting. ok - you could still drop considerable weight by mounting some maxxlite tires. that's probably the easiest way but they won't bring you much farther than down the street to get yourself a burger or ice cream...but for picking up the bike the sure make a difference

    anyway - if you need something you know where to ask, don't you? ;
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