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  1. #1
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    WTA Grand Ridge Work

    Just posted, would be great to see both Saturdays fill up with riders. We will be working on the reroute north of Grand Ridge Drive.
    Trail Work Parties
    Sign up closes a few days before, they don't want drop ins.

    This corner could use a berm.
    Last edited by Dave_schuldt; 11-15-2012 at 07:17 PM.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  2. #2
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    Rode it today and fixed a few drainage problems. Good shape considering all the rain.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  3. #3
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    Good work Dave!
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  4. #4
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    Saturday isn't full yet, sign up closes Thursday night.
    I know you would rather be shooting people to get a parking space at the mall but it's really important to have volunteers from the largest user group.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  5. #5
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    Was a great day, warm with wind and sprinkles. It was a small crew. about 12 with 3 riders. The reroute is longer than I thought. It crosses the trail where I took the picture of the riders. It was fairly easy going with some roots and rotten logs. Please STAY OFF the new trail until it's had a chance to set up.
    Will be back next Saturday.
    WTA Grand Ridge 12-1 Photos by DaveSchult | Photobucket
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  6. #6
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    Rode GR today and was having flashbacks. There used to be a guy my wife and I would see quite offten. Seems like he would ride a gallzillian miles a day riding his Klein. I have either forgotten his name or never knew it. So the question of the day is, does the past (late80s early 90s) Klein Man still ride at GR?
    Last edited by Sven Trials; 12-02-2012 at 11:59 AM. Reason: mantard

  7. #7
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    Good work up there. Hey Dave when I get my new Yeti built up all have to get GR another shot!
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  8. #8
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    Almost 20 or us today with the usual 3 bikers. We worked on the second section or reroute, great progress was made with deep duff and a switch back. Gave some bonking biker food, it was his first time on this trail and he didn't realize how much energy was required.
    That's it until January.
    Pics.
    WTA Grand Ridge 12-8 Photos by DaveSchult | Photobucket

    Saw tire track on the first section, the northern end is soft, pleas STAY OFF until it has a chance to harden.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  9. #9
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    Dave, I need help... Are trails that are being built and reroutes constructed to meet a standard? 20 years ago Gr and Tiger were day long slogfest workout. it seems to me that all of the trails are looking the same. The only obstacale left is gravity. I do have a couple secret places to ride that have not been built for trail runners, yet....

  10. #10
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    Built to last. If you want old school tech go somewhere else.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  11. #11
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    Great work Dave! I live in Issaquah and ride GR as a regular routine when my schedule is not hammering me! Incredible work you guys are doing there and I certainly appreciate it.

    I know I need to get on a work crew to do my part also!

    CW

  12. #12
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    Built to last? Many of the trails were old mining and logging roads from100 yrs ago.
    Don't get me wrong, I thank you specificly for your work. But we are losing our "old school tech" trails so rapidly. I do look to other places for my style but hate poaching.

  13. #13
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    I think the public land managers are responsible for the types of trails we are building. They want these trails to last and to be user friendly for as many folks as possible. You need to realize 20-30 years ago Tiger and even GR were a little more "in the boonies". Now GR has hundreds of people living next to it. I have 2 suggestions. We might have a better chance of getting some gnarlier trails built in the Raging River Forest. The DNR has just started the management process and I'd make sure you voice your opinion when they ask for it. Also, let me know if you're interested in helping us build trails at Tokul. We are putting together a plan to start building at T West, and there will probably be some opportunities at east as well.

  14. #14
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    Hey Slop, The Raging River Forest? Is that Rattlesnake mountain and Kerinston area? Basically the Raging River Drainage Basin? I thought that is under the DNR control also. It seems to me that King County and DNR have the same trail build specs, bringing them down to the lowest common denominator. Ok, I understand. Now Tokul and Handcock, do they have a build spec on trails also?

    Start a new tread about the plan you have, I would like to know more about it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sven Trials View Post
    Hey Slop, The Raging River Forest? Is that Rattlesnake mountain and Kerinston area? Basically the Raging River Drainage Basin? I thought that is under the DNR control also. It seems to me that King County and DNR have the same trail build specs, bringing them down to the lowest common denominator. Ok, I understand.
    Guess I'm not really sure what you mean by, "old school tech" -- are you talking gnar like the dearly departed NF or zero-flow twisty XC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sven Trials View Post
    Now Tokul and Handcock, do they have a build spec on trails also?
    At Tokul, my understanding is that the principal restrictions are: no structures and, most important, nothing that detracts from the value of the timber. Plans need to be run through the official channels so they have some idea what's going on; but it seems like the communication has been very open and positive between Hancock management and EMBA.

    "Handcock" -- Freudian slip?
    Last edited by GeePhroh; 12-10-2012 at 01:14 PM.

  16. #16
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    DNR-the DNR does have their trail guidelines, but this does not mean they are set in stone for something like the Raging River. They need to be held accountable to us, the disco pass buyers. Let them know at every instance that we want more DH, rooty, trails.

    Tokul-We are starting with a small project on T west that will hopefully provide a single track route up from the SVT to the upper trails. Basically waiting for Hancock's stamp of approval before going totally public. If things go positively, we should be able to build more trails that are more in line with "old school" riding. I'll keep everyone posted as things start to evolve.

  17. #17
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    GP, the old school I am refering to is the way many trails used to be. Take Iverson trail on Tiger, used to be called Fat Hand and before that it was the Trials trail. This trail used to have stream crossings, these areas would have "sections", areas of dificulty, that: if you did not have bike handling skills you crashed. Steep climbs, if you spun out , you had to walk it. The old saying used to be," if you ain't hiking, you ain't mountain biking". Logs use to have to be climbed or hopped on and over not ramped. Same for rocks and steps.

    Maybe Dave is right, maybe my mt bike time has come and gone. As an old mt biker, the challanges have changed and I have been left behind..

  18. #18
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    Hope better then ever!!!

    Thanks for the good work DS! I need to go to one of those WP with you.

    Hey Sven, have you done Osborne mt trail, it's a very nice Epic a few hours south! Lots of steep, narrow trail, hike-a-bike and what not. I saw one person last time i did it.
    Or Smith creek on the south edge of St Helens.

    Also it sounds like you would love the trails in Northern Idaho.

    This is one of them, It's a 40+ mile, 7500+/-. It's the most amazing epic that no one has heard of.


    There is a handful of shorter ones that are just as or harder (steep, loose, switchbacks and other tomfoolery) The new Preston- NWT connector trail on Tiger is a mix of old school and modern trails!

    "your" ("my") day many be gone cuz is yours, but "our" day as mtbers is getting better then ever!

    I'd like to add this as a general view of then "old school is died" mentally that some people have toward modern new to Seattle trails.

    Also there is more people then ever Mtbing now, which means more people on our trails, and more people are in to riding year around! Which is great, but the "old school" trails would more then likely not hold up to the mass of year around riding and modern bikes.

    So I think the day of "old school" riding near highly populated areas might be gone for a bit, tell we can get more trails near metro that can sustain the masses and spread us out. Plus show the crowd that we don't need to be in parks near police station or on gravel roads and that we are not a bunch of yipping youths with our sister underwear on. But that we are a force to be reckoned with that will ravel their hay day. We just need to unite as mtbers as whole and not get so when things aren't what we're use to.

    The faster we can get a good amount of sustainable high use trails for the masses done and show the , the sooner we can start pushing back with some modern " old school" trails! Which I'm all for if they aren't mud bogs, climb/descend less sporadic or look like they were planned by throwing spaghetti on a map. I miss steep techy climbs, girding for hours to get an epic decent on all singletrack!

    In due time.

    = anti-mtber
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  19. #19
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    Hey MTBTY, Thanks for the vid and insight to the situation. That is the type trail I am talking about. Control, skill, and views..

    I have not have the need to travel hours for decent riding before, I will do some research and start discovering some new areas for myself to better my bike skills.

    Thanks for your help.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sven Trials View Post
    GP, the old school I am refering to is the way many trails used to be. Take Iverson trail on Tiger, used to be called Fat Hand and before that it was the Trials trail. This trail used to have stream crossings, these areas would have "sections", areas of dificulty, that: if you did not have bike handling skills you crashed. Steep climbs, if you spun out , you had to walk it.
    FWIW, I rode it back then too. And where Iverson used to be my favorite of the three legal Tiger trails back in the day, I'm not that into it anymore either. After the clearcut, especially. I agree that it's not as much fun for me personally without as much of the tech.

    But life is change, Sven. That's the way it is especially when a lot of what we're riding is working forest and/or gray trail. The crew I ride with has spent countless hours building trail that has been ripped out and logged. Enjoy it while you can and don't live in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sven Trials View Post
    The old saying used to be," if you ain't hiking, you ain't mountain biking". Logs use to have to be climbed or hopped on and over not ramped. Same for rocks and steps.
    As mtby pointed out, it's not just about a shift in riding style -- though that is part of it, the big change is a move toward sustainable practice. We've got a lot more people riding the close-in stuff. Trails like Tiger have to be built for way higher levels of use than they would have been in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sven Trials View Post
    Maybe Dave is right, maybe my mt bike time has come and gone. As an old mt biker, the challanges have changed and I have been left behind..
    I'll guess that I've been riding about as long as you have (late 80s) so I'm sorry that I just don't buy the "I'm-an-old-guy" thing. Probably 'cause it makes me feel ancient.

    My dreams of pulling a backflip over a 50ft gap are probably(!) not going to happen; but old guys like us still have a lot of after-work night-rides, Duthie shredding, backcountry epics, and build party shenanigans left to do.

    Come out and ride and maybe drink a beer. It'll make you feel better.

  21. #21
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    Also, new trails start out smoother, and get rootier, rockier and more technical over time. We're getting a bunch of new stuff right now, so it feels a lot more buff than than what it'll feel like after several years. Look at Suntop - that thing was a boring freeway when rebuilt 8(??) years ago. I'm told its getting fun again, so I need to go ride it after avoiding it since it was rebuilt.

    I love really narrow gauge, technical trails, though my preference might be a wee bit faster corners. I also like flow trails like the new E Tiger Summit, so for me, variety is the key (I actually like lots of styles of riding). But these super narrow trails only stay that way if there's a lower number of wheels and feet on them. Maybe there's an opportunity for some kind of this stuff deeper in the commercial tree farms. I've got some ideas on this, but this year it seems better to focus on Tiger since we need more places for the masses to ride, otherwise all of our trails will get over-used and widened out.

    There's definitely some challenges to riding in a spot with 3 million people on our door step, but I think Evergreen has got it figured out and is more than keeping up with the demand. We all want more trails sooner, especially me, but a new trail from concept to development is usually 5 to 20 year process. Not very often 5. Look at all the new trails in the work and you'll see how much work has been going on behind the scenes, literally for decades. I'm pretty stoked on the potential we've got, and agree that we need a good mix of different styles of trails.

    I know I didn't really address the original question, but hey, I've got my party line and a compulsive urge to keep saying it
    Issaquah & Seattle real estate agent. Buy or sell a home with me and I donate $500 to Evergreen MTB Alliance
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  22. #22
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    That's It!!!!!! Variety!!!!!! That is what is missing... You Nailed it Juice!! Funny I have not been to Suntop in 15 years, hope Skookum has survived the years..

    Thanks Juice...

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