Watch out for this guy

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  • 06-12-2014
    WestwardHo
    Watch out for this guy
    Hey folks, I don't really post on forums but thought I should give a warning about the hiker I came across today. I've recently moved up from Eugene to Issaquah for work and haven't experienced this sort of craziness on the trails before.

    I was riding down the doubletrack from central park that meets up with coal creek (i think) that connects to grand ridge. There was a big older dude (in his 50s) with two small black corgi-type dogs. I stopped behind him and said "excuse me" because one of his unleashed dogs was in the other lane of the doubletrack. He turns around and just says "no, you're not passing".

    I was kind of taken aback and just sat there for a sec while he blocked one lane and his dog blocked the other lane. After a minute or so of this weirdness his dog moves out of the way and I hop into that lane of doubletrack to go around him and get on the trail. The dude freaks out and straight up trucks me off my bike with a two handed shove and stands over me yelling about yielding to pedestrians. I hopped back up and shoved him, forgot what I yelled but I was equal parts pissed and surprised. He backed off for a sec so I hopped on my bike and took off. He was still screaming "come back here $$####***!!!" while I rode off.

    Anyway, like I said, big older dude in a safari vest with two little black dogs. I thought people were supposed to be passive-aggressive up here, not just aggressive. :) Watch yourselves out there.
  • 06-12-2014
    Borneo
    That sucks...

    The HOHAs of the "P"Issy Alps Club are still around but dying off so your children and your children's children should be fine...

    Pretty rare to encounter one that feisty though....
  • 06-12-2014
    woodway
    What he did was assault and a call to 911 is warranted.
  • 06-12-2014
    Mookie
    That's unusual for sure. Good work on not totally retaliating (although IMO, you had the right to), it'll just hurt the cycling image up there. I guess you should start riding with a GoPro. J/K, kinda.
  • 06-12-2014
    WestwardHo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by woodway View Post
    What he did was assault and a call to 911 is warranted.

    You're probably right. I should have done it once I rode off although my description of him would be "big, white, 55 year old dude with dogs" so I guess the Issy PD would just have to arrest everyone on the trail :) I'm not a big fan of contacting the authorities but I'll file a police report tomorrow so there will be a record of his behavior in case he does it again. I don't want someone to get hurt because I didn't say anything.
  • 06-13-2014
    glenwallace
    Issy may be more concerned about the off leash dogs.
  • 06-13-2014
    RRRoubaix
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WestwardHo View Post
    You're probably right. I should have done it once I rode off although my description of him would be "big, white, 55 year old dude with dogs" so I guess the Issy PD would just have to arrest everyone on the trail :) I'm not a big fan of contacting the authorities but I'll file a police report tomorrow so there will be a record of his behavior in case he does it again. I don't want someone to get hurt because I didn't say anything.

    EXACTLY! Thank you for reporting him. Even without a detailed description, they have a record that some a-hole is out there doing this.
    That way when said cretin pulls this sh*t again, there is a recorded history of his violent behavior.
  • 06-13-2014
    Cayenne_Pepa
    That is unprovoked assault, he committed. Hunt him down...because you clearly have a case. Any witnesses, other than his two dogs?
  • 06-13-2014
    Superleo
    get a gro pro dude
  • 06-15-2014
    Dave_schuldt
    Escaped mental patient.
    Plese repost all interactons with this guy. Be careful, you never know if he's got a gun.
  • 06-15-2014
    ward
    Was going to say, careful w/ folks like this! seems like lots of folks packin' out there these days...
  • 06-15-2014
    Ladmo
    since when is a guy in his 50's an "older dude"? sheesh. we've still got a couple kicks left in the tank.
  • 06-15-2014
    WestwardHo
    Hey, I've got nothin but respect for old man strength. Hell, that was half the reason I hopped on my bike after pushing him back a bit.
  • 06-15-2014
    breaks911
    Will def be on the lookout for said douche. What an assclown.
  • 06-15-2014
    NWS
    WTF. This guy needs a night in jail. Or a month of them, I'm not picky.
  • 06-16-2014
    mwestra2
    1 Attachment(s)
    You never know who is lurking in the woods out there. Def agree with filing a police report. This guy will probably stay away from Grand Ridge for a while, but he'll turn up somewhere else sooner or later. Since we got the new pooch, Julie and I hike and ride Coal Creek and under the power lines regularly... because we rarely see anybody. Will keep our eyes peeled.

    Attachment 901477
  • 06-16-2014
    Borneo
    okay. That's funny! Thumbs up on that one Mike...
  • 06-16-2014
    mwestra2
    Wish I could take credit for that pic... I just stole it from the Vandeman thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discu...-623738-6.html. :)
  • 06-16-2014
    Borneo
    The only thing that would have been better would be a Harvey Manning shot in there with Ira Spring in the background.... :)
  • 06-16-2014
    ward
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    The only thing that would have been better would be a Harvey Manning shot in there with Ira Spring in the background.... :)

    Hahahahaha....
  • 06-16-2014
    Preston67
    It has been nice not seeing Vandeham online since his conviction.
  • 06-16-2014
    InertiaMan
    I had a similar experience -- well, without the shoving and semi-violence -- in Arizona last year. I came up from behind on three hikers, slowed down to walking pace, gave a very friendly "hello, biker back, would like to pass whenever you find a good spot" and this older woman was VEHEMENT that "hikers have the right of way" and she absolutely refused to yield the trail.

    I guess some hikers have warped perspectives of what "yielding" means. Do they seriously expect us to walk our bikes at 2 mph for several hours until they choose a different fork in the trail? What do they do if a faster hiker comes up from behind?

    In my case, staying friendly (initially), I specifically asked the woman what she expected me to do. All she would say was "I have the right of way, you can't pass me" and kept walking, not even facing me to speak to me! After saying politely, again, that I didn't want to cause any conflict, just pass when appropriate and be on my way, she ignored me. Eventually I carried my bike around her, off trail, then turned to face her and remind her that the trail she was walking was maintained largely by bikers, had very little traffic, and it didn't seem like a lot to ask of her to step aside for 5 seconds and exchange greetings. Her two friends had happily yielded the trail on my first request, and were giving this woman semi-puzzled looks.

    Frustrating for sure. I think some folks just hate a group for god knows what reason, in this case mountain bikers, and there is no rational explanation/solution.
  • 06-16-2014
    Preston67
    Interesting encounter.

    I am very fastidious about getting off my bike and walking past hikers, even when they have already gotten off the trail - just showing respect I guess. So in my case, I would have come up behind them and gotten off my bike and been walking, at which point if they hadn't noticed me I would do the excuse me. So at that point, I am a hiker. Curious what the reaction would have been.

    Anyway, maybe a technique to use next time which you eventually did, you just had to go off trail at that point since her mind was made up. But would have been interesting if she turned around the first time and you were already walking (perhaps even carrying rather that pushing).

    But you're right its not rational they just want to make a stand in their little world. LIke how I might (irrationally) be a bit slow to yield the first time an e-bike wants to pass me on non-moto singletrack.
  • 06-16-2014
    musikron
    I have never once walked my bike past a hiker, and I also rarely have anything but pleasant encounters with them. In fact all negative encounters involved dogs, earbuds, or horses. Even old Audubon ladies and friendly as I roll past them at a little over walking pace.
  • 06-16-2014
    Ladmo
    I came up behind a female trail runner on Grand Ridge last summer. I announced myself. She continued to run down the middle of the trail without acknowledging me in any way. I followed along for maybe 100 yards, then told her I would like to pass at her convenience. She continued ignoring me. I asked her to just move over a little and I'd handle the rest. She ignored me. Finally, I told her that at the next opportunity, I was going to pass her on the left. I would announce I was passing, then I would pass, and I hoped we didn't collide, but if we did, I was not going to apologize for it. Shortly thereafter, I passed. I looked back, and it was as if I was invisible. No reaction whatsoever. Besides that one negative encounter, I've had nothing but good greetings and words with every other hiker, runner or horseman I've met along the trail. Totally strange.
  • 06-16-2014
    Sven Trials
    Next time there is a conflict, shank 'em with a mini pump...
  • 06-16-2014
    nasai
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by freakybro View Post
    I came up behind a female trail runner on Grand Ridge last summer. I announced myself. She continued to run down the middle of the trail without acknowledging me in any way. I followed along for maybe 100 yards, then told her I would like to pass at her convenience. She continued ignoring me. I asked her to just move over a little and I'd handle the rest. She ignored me. Finally, I told her that at the next opportunity, I was going to pass her on the left. I would announce I was passing, then I would pass, and I hoped we didn't collide, but if we did, I was not going to apologize for it. Shortly thereafter, I passed. I looked back, and it was as if I was invisible. No reaction whatsoever. Besides that one negative encounter, I've had nothing but good greetings and words with every other hiker, runner or horseman I've met along the trail. Totally strange.


    You ARE invisible.
  • 06-16-2014
    trboxman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nasai View Post
    You ARE invisible.

    Who are you talking to?
  • 06-16-2014
    nasai
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by trboxman View Post
    Who are you talking to?

    The guy I quoted. I guess I need to put smiley faces while I'm at it?
  • 06-16-2014
    paleo
    Re: Watch out for this guy
    I don't love this thread. Yeah he's a bad guy but I want his side of the story. I'm talking about the dog walker if anyone is wondering.

    At least it points out there is strong "interest" in getting along on this closest great trail to 2 million souls.

    I suggest Evergreen have a plan for when the official complaint salvos begin to trickle into county parks to respond with an outreach tent at grand ridge drive (so it does not impact the cars) perhaps with county staff and even WTA to educate all users to get along especially us vs them. I hope it doesn't become a lodge.

    Look inside yourselves. Strava hero or courteous interaction? Groups especially teams in colors really set a tone to walkers. Put yourself in their position. How many bikes just went by as I lost track?

    I'm the sarcastic guy when you tell me "1 back" I reply "I know, 200 back". There is always someone around every corner. Yes I ring a bell on all of them. But my ancient bell will remain silent hereafter regarding GR conflict. Its your turn to change a disgruntled walker's opinion...

    You will surely not change anyone's opinion here :-)

    Or drive another 20 minutes to tiger or beyond and Go Rural ye fast and furious young men and women. There is nobody there to care, but please never forget your manners.
  • 06-17-2014
    NWS
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nasai View Post
    The guy I quoted. I guess I need to put smiley faces while I'm at it?

    No, it's not that... It was an invisible joke.
    So it's OK that you didn't see it right away. :)
  • 06-17-2014
    Scrotus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by trboxman View Post
    Who are you talking to?

    I think he was talking to that older dude
  • 06-17-2014
    Preston67
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paleo View Post
    I don't love this thread. Yeah he's a bad guy but I want his side of the story. I'm talking about the dog walker if anyone is wondering.

    At least it points out there is strong "interest" in getting along on this closest great trail to 2 million souls.

    I suggest Evergreen have a plan for when the official complaint salvos begin to trickle into county parks to respond with an outreach tent at grand ridge drive (so it does not impact the cars) perhaps with county staff and even WTA to educate all users to get along especially us vs them. I hope it doesn't become a lodge.

    Look inside yourselves. Strava hero or courteous interaction? Groups especially teams in colors really set a tone to walkers. Put yourself in their position. How many bikes just went by as I lost track?

    I'm the sarcastic guy when you tell me "1 back" I reply "I know, 200 back". There is always someone around every corner. Yes I ring a bell on all of them. But my ancient bell will remain silent hereafter regarding GR conflict. Its your turn to change a disgruntled walker's opinion...

    You will surely not change anyone's opinion here :-)

    Or drive another 20 minutes to tiger or beyond and Go Rural ye fast and furious young men and women. There is nobody there to care, but please never forget your manners.

    The onus always will be on us. Not casting aspersions on the OP's story I'm just sayin' - I agree fully with what the Legend is trying to communicate. It's true for every trail, but GR and the like are a bubble inside of an egg - fragile.

    I had a guy screaming at me and trying to poke me with his walking poles* (I had to push them out of the way) and then as I walked by he belly bumped me and of course I had all sorts of post-incident thoughts, but of every single scenario I considered, none of them had a positive outcome except "remove myself from this situation with as much dispatch as possible". Which it sounds like the OP did, except for the push.

    *this was in another time and place several years ago
  • 06-18-2014
    NWS
    Buddy system.
    Helmet camera.
    Jail cell.
    Victory.
  • 06-18-2014
    unicrown junkie
    Thr horse crowd can go jump in the coldest lake in the Cascades, and as for the hiking thugs, well there are some good ones out there. Don't expect to find any near Brinnon or Quilcene, that are could use some help in civility, trail-wise.
  • 06-18-2014
    WestwardHo
    OP here folks. I don't want to get in to a big discussion about this but I have to defend pushing the guy off after he assaulted me and was standing over me yelling. I'd like to hear the other side of the story too because we weren't even on singletrack yet and there was plenty of room. I stopped behind him, politely asked to pass and when I did decide to pass I was going about 3 mph and he had plenty of room. I don't wear bright colors, use Strava and I don't rip around Grand Ridge like it's my personal enduro course.

    That being said, I've been surprised by the amount of dickish riding I see on Grand Ridge. I'm from a place where you yield and you might even (god forbid) stop to chat for a bit with the other rider. Grand Ridge was a culture shock coming from Eugene/Oakridge but it's still a nice place to cruise around after work. I understand how some hikers get pissed at the mtn bikers on GR but it ain't no excuse to assault people. That dude was a dangerous dick but regardless of that we should all strive to be a little more polite and cautious on busy trails. Problem is, the people who need to hear that probably ain't reading this forum. Happy trails y'all.
  • 06-18-2014
    paleo
    Re: Watch out for this guy
    You are a breath of fresh air OP.

    Welcome!

    Will watch out.
  • 06-18-2014
    trboxman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nasai View Post
    The guy I quoted. I guess I need to put smiley faces while I'm at it?

    No, I got yours, but it looks like you didn't get my funny ;)
  • 06-19-2014
    WestwardHo
    1 Attachment(s)
    So, the saga continues. I was out walking my dog and ran into our friendly neighborhood bike-shover. This time I got my camera out and started filming him which made him pretty upset. He reads our forums and started calling me "WestwardHo". So, hello sir if you're reading this. I gave him my real name and asked for his which was met with a "f**k you buddy". At that point he called the cops and said that my dog and I were threatening him and going to attack. I just kept filming, letting him get more worked up while I got some shots of his face for the police. At that point he was starting to get pretty upset and one of his off-leash dogs had run off so I decided to head down the trail and call the police myself.

    That made him even more mad for some reason and I got some more video of him telling me to come back to fight I guess? He just kept saying I was a p**sy in different uncreative ways. I met with the Issaquah police down at the bottom of the trail and showed them the video that torpedoed his story. The cops were laughing at the ridiculousness of the guy and I was too honestly. They now have a report on file for this as well. I'm not going to post the video since I'm not a lawyer and not sure if I should but here's a pic that gives you some idea of who to look out for. I don't want to put a pic of his face up because I'm figuring he'll murder the next mountain biker he sees if I do that. At least now you have some idea of what he and his dogs look like. Hopefully the chat with the police will keep him under control for the time being.

    Attachment 902298
  • 06-19-2014
    Kliemann53
    I'm about 50 years old and also have a border collie, so please make sure its the right guy before you flip him any s**t.
  • 06-19-2014
    mtbty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kliemann53 View Post
    I'm about 50 years old and also have a border collie, so please make sure its the right guy before you flip him any s**t.

    Do you also wear your short up to your belly button with your shirt tucked in and on your way to a safari of trail conflict?
  • 06-19-2014
    paleo
    Re: Watch out for this guy
    Mr. Corgiman hope you appreciate Pink Floyd's The Wall:

    "The evidence before the court is incontrovertible. There is no need for the jury to retire...."

    (Leads to "Tear down The Wall!" )

    We all want to figure out how get along. Like Ross Perot I am all ears.

    You bought that nice house up there and I've feared for the local stakeholders vs. Our clan of the unwashed with our $1000 cars and $5000 bikes trying to share this precious open space.

    I'm the guy who puts up the "Let's Fix This" signs here and there over the last couple of winters and dozens of my friends, you know: we the unwashed, fill and shape the trail to give the water an escape route to avoid divots.

    Let's fix this...

    I'll meet you anywhere you want alone no shenanigans lets just talk about your very special neighborhood.

    If you want I can have someone from county parks to hear your story. I can ask the parks Manager Gary Brown to join us or Google him and arrange your own meeting. Again no shenanigans am just trying to gain perspective and mutually determine if we have options to reach out to this readership to help remind them of best practices..
  • 06-19-2014
    walangkatapat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WestwardHo View Post
    So, the saga continues. I was out walking my dog and ran into our friendly neighborhood bike-shover. This time I got my camera out and started filming him which made him pretty upset. He reads our forums and started calling me "WestwardHo". So, hello sir if you're reading this. I gave him my real name and asked for his which was met with a "f**k you buddy". At that point he called the cops and said that my dog and I were threatening him and going to attack. I just kept filming, letting him get more worked up while I got some shots of his face for the police. At that point he was starting to get pretty upset and one of his off-leash dogs had run off so I decided to head down the trail and call the police myself.

    That made him even more mad for some reason and I got some more video of him telling me to come back to fight I guess? He just kept saying I was a p**sy in different uncreative ways. I met with the Issaquah police down at the bottom of the trail and showed them the video that torpedoed his story. The cops were laughing at the ridiculousness of the guy and I was too honestly. They now have a report on file for this as well. I'm not going to post the video since I'm not a lawyer and not sure if I should but here's a pic that gives you some idea of who to look out for. I don't want to put a pic of his face up because I'm figuring he'll murder the next mountain biker he sees if I do that. At least now you have some idea of what he and his dogs look like. Hopefully the chat with the police will keep him under control for the time being.

    Attachment 902298

    Good job.
  • 06-20-2014
    mwestra2
    I'm still laughing at "safari of trail conflict" :thumbsup:.

    Thanks for the update and another huge thanks to Len... for not only fixing up the trails we love to ride, but now offering to be an ambassador! I doubt corgiman will contact you, but if he does, there's no better person than you to have a conversation with.

    For the last 5 months, Julie and I have been hiking the trails at GR way more than we ride them. I'd like to summarize our experience and make a point...

    *All* of the bikers we've met while hiking have been cool and willing to give us the right of way. We just get out of the way because its the easiest thing to do. And when we're riding, that's what most of the hikers we meet do as well. So our experience at GR has been pretty damn positive.

    As you can expect, a small percentage of the riders we've met were going pretty fast and had to brake pretty hard to stop in time. Being bikers, Julie and I are fine with it and the riders are cool about it... even apologetic. However, I can easily see how that could freak out some hikers. Especially those who don't understand mt biking. They could see those encounters as a near devastating crash. Especially parents with younger kids and older folks.

    My point... we need to slow down at places like GR. It's not the place for strava or practicing your high speed cornering skills. And the closer you get to Central Park, the heavier the casual walk-in-the-woods traffic will be. I imagine it's the same at St Eds.

    BTW, not saying there aren't Vandemans out there on both sides, I think they are rare and I have yet to meet one at GR.
  • 06-20-2014
    WestwardHo
    I want to second the thanks to Len. I hope he does call and this gets worked out in a productive manner. During our last "conversation" he seemed to think that mountain bikers break the law all the time and this gives him the right to do as he pleases. That said, he's old enough that he should be receptive to some measured conversation once he's calmed down from all this.

    On another note, please don't accost this gentleman if you run into him on the trail. The police know who he is now so just give him a wide berth and document anything he does with the proper authorities. I can provide you with a case number if you pm me after you run into him.

    And like people have been saying, slow down in the populated areas of grand ridge and try to be syrupy sweet in your encounters with the general public. Most people are wonderful but there are those out there who've painted a target on our backs so remember that we are all ambassadors for the sport and trail access. Anyway, thanks for all the support everyone. I'm hoping this is the last I have to deal with this and I can pedal around stupid and happy for the rest of my days.
  • 06-20-2014
    fluxcapacitor
    I would say vigilante, but that's taking law enforcement into one's own hands...he is not enforcing any laws, rather, breaking them.

    I would say selfish or egocentric but that means concerned "chiefly" with one's own personal profit or pleasure. His focus seems to be concerned solely (not chiefly) with his own pleasure.

    There really is not one word to describe a person who transgresses moral, ethical, or civil law in such a blatant manner. This is not situational, this a personality disorder. Take away the bike, the hike, the park, the dogs...I would be willing to bet that this person's life is steeped in empty and pointless conflict. It's too bad (and quite amazing) that people like this exist in settings such as open spaces and parks where the focus is supposed to be recreation (or re-creation meaning to re create one self outside of the daily routine).
  • 06-20-2014
    mtbty
    One good tip for people who ride GR. Stop trying to count all the knobs on your tires while riding. Trust your skills, your bike, the trail and look ahead for other trail users. 3/4ers of people on bikes that I encounter on that trail are looking right at there tire and that makes it hard to see anything else. If you can get comfortable looking ahead and not having to gazing into the knobs of your tire like it's a camp fire then you will become a more skilled rider.

    Hint- If you can't look ahead while riding your bike you might be riding a little out of control of your skills set.
  • 06-22-2014
    ShiverMeTimbers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by walangkatapat View Post
    Good job.

    Sick hat. This thread is pretty entertaining, but on a serious note, I'm really impressed how you're handling it. I would have reacted far more aggressively if some guy shoved me off my bike like that... but after reading this thread, I wouldn't. So, thanks for the perspective. Hope it works out and that the toughest part of the safari is over.
  • 06-23-2014
    a-man
    The restraint shown in this thread is refreshing.

    Field Lieutenant Corgiman is worthy of our pity, not our fists. What a sad little man. Seven billion people on this planet--good luck with your doggies and your trail and your helmet, bud. See you on the other side...
  • 06-23-2014
    a-man
    that's one of those safari pith helmet things, yes?
  • 06-23-2014
    raekwon
    How miserable must people be to get to so activated over such a trivial thing? I feel sorry for him.
  • 06-23-2014
    fluxcapacitor
    1 Attachment(s)
    Lord Helmet Man.
  • 06-23-2014
    Dave_schuldt
    Let's hope we have no further trouble with this wacko. I'm glad the cops got involved.
    Stand in the center of the circle of shame.
  • 06-23-2014
    breaks911
    Watch out for this guy
    We are the world....we are the children...
  • 07-22-2014
    Medic Zero
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WestwardHo View Post
    So, the saga continues. I was out walking my dog and ran into our friendly neighborhood bike-shover. This time I got my camera out and started filming him which made him pretty upset. He reads our forums and started calling me "WestwardHo". So, hello sir if you're reading this. I gave him my real name and asked for his which was met with a "f**k you buddy". At that point he called the cops and said that my dog and I were threatening him and going to attack. I just kept filming, letting him get more worked up while I got some shots of his face for the police. At that point he was starting to get pretty upset and one of his off-leash dogs had run off so I decided to head down the trail and call the police myself.

    That made him even more mad for some reason and I got some more video of him telling me to come back to fight I guess? He just kept saying I was a p**sy in different uncreative ways. I met with the Issaquah police down at the bottom of the trail and showed them the video that torpedoed his story. The cops were laughing at the ridiculousness of the guy and I was too honestly. They now have a report on file for this as well. I'm not going to post the video since I'm not a lawyer and not sure if I should but here's a pic that gives you some idea of who to look out for. I don't want to put a pic of his face up because I'm figuring he'll murder the next mountain biker he sees if I do that. At least now you have some idea of what he and his dogs look like. Hopefully the chat with the police will keep him under control for the time being.

    Attachment 902298

    Is that a pith helmet? If so, that's all you need to know...