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  1. #1
    bro not pro
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    torn up switch backs on Ranger Creek trail

    torn up switch backs on Ranger Creek Trail, WA

    The switchbacks on Ranger Creek trail are getting torn up pretty bad this year. Soon they'll be unridable rocks roots chunder. Why is this ? What can be done about it ?

    G O N Z

  2. #2
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    Re: torn up switch backs on Ranger Creek trail

    The elephant in the room:

    If we help are we dumbing it down?

    The world is run by those that show up and that's on the trail not in blah blah land but tell us what you think before we ruin it for you.

    Design Goal #1: make the switches so the downslope of the exit will not fail you.

    #2: The entrance into the corner and the corner space may get attention but that is a secondary priority.

    If you feel very strongly about this we want you on our team. You are automatically authorized to help us make this outlast all of us. I don't have to be able to ride it but it should again live longer than this readership.

    If this is all we have to argue about then Summer rules eh?

  3. #3
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    Okay, I can't ride but I can live vicariously through all your adventures even when a hook is thrown out there.... I'll bite.
    As has been stated here for years now, pre-MTB built trail with lower volume hiker intended use.... Popular MTB trail now and added shuttle monkey coaster use. Blown out corners...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonz View Post
    Why is this ?
    Changing riding style, changing mentality. 10 years ago, if you left a skid mark around a switchback on a backcountry trail, you hang your head low in shame because we couldn't afford to not tread lightly. Today? Nobody seems to care about finesse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonz View Post
    What can be done about it ?
    We could start by reminding riders to match the riding to the trail, not the other way around, but it may fall on deaf ears...

    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo
    pre-MTB built trail with lower volume hiker intended use....
    Wait a few years, Borneo. If MBS can only maintain 1/4 of the existing roads as they claim, I'd bet you a nickel that 7200 wouldn't make the cut.

  5. #5
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    Although in an ideal world all the switchbacks would be rebuilt as necessary, IMO I didn't feel like it was a big issue. I hadn't been on Ranger Creek in a few years but it seemed like it was in amazingly good shape overall (partially thanks to our August rain). There were only 4-5 switchbacks that weren't rideable up hill, and of course they are all rideable downhill. They certainly look no worse to me than many switchbacks on hiking trails so I don't think its a perception issue as much as "it would be nice to pedal this switchback".

    You know its August when a 5.5 hour ride seems short. Sorry again to leave you hanging up there Pete but we got back right on time and domestic bliss was maintained in my household. Didja get a swim in or too chillY ?

  6. #6
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    That's a sad sight indeed. Is there enough space and rock nearby to level out the turn? How far in is it? We have 410 fest coming up middle of next month.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  7. #7

  8. #8
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    Well I know we want sustainability but I would rather have gnarly than those super buff easily negotiated flow turns.

  9. #9
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    Now that's some serious work that will hold up for years.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston View Post
    Well I know we want sustainability but I would rather have gnarly than those super buff easily negotiated flow turns.
    You may like it now but it's only going to get worse. What a trail looks like now doesn't matter, it's what it will look like in the future that matters.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  11. #11
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    Re: torn up switch backs on Ranger Creek trail

    I would like to hear from "others" especially those with a a righteous experience to share.

    I see those exits and some bodies been down there.

    This past May we did what I thought was a lame day at the very bottom of grand ridge and I've ridden it a hundred times yet then people came by and told us how they went over the side and how our effort actually helped.

    This isn't to make anyone feel less but this is your chance to report if you agree a little help could be worth a bunch of our time which could in the end be us or USFS TBD.

    No inputs tips me to the do nothing side....





    AuldSkul!

  12. #12
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    I only get to ride 410 trails a couple times a year, and build maintain my own trails on the east side.

    Please don't dumb down the trail. i'm not sure what you mean by unride-able roots, rocks and chunder? I dont see anything in that picture that represents anything that a weakly skilled rider could not get over. I see a maturing bike trail. That corner has plenty of spots to drop a front tire into and have plenty of traction. As for climbing..when its dry that would be a bit of a challenge i guess....which is awesome.

    Its mid-late august and like usually we haven't had much moisture. Things are gonna bet a bit blown out and they will reset next season.

  13. #13
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    That Picture is miss leading, That is one of the better off SB on that trail. Most are not that nice and/or a lot tighter on a 60-100% side slope.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlf.ski.bike.sail View Post

    Please don't dumb down the trail. I'm not sure what you mean by unride-able roots, rocks and chunder? I dont see anything in that picture that represents anything that a weakly skilled rider could not get over.
    Put your money where your mouth is and go try to clear that trail as it sits now
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  14. #14
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    "There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride." -or use their brakes to their full advantage.
    Agreed; I posted an anti-skidding rant in the beginner forum a few days ago and was/am shocked that there actually are skidding defenders.

  15. #15
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    Seriously? It's dirt... it'll move around. Just ride it like you stole it! If you can't handle the terrain there's always doofie or netflix at home...

  16. #16
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    Geeze i hope 410 never get's turfstoned... Each section should be approached on it's own, although i'm sure they all provide similar challenges in logistics (meaning materials, volunteers, terrain etc.). But i would hope that pavers would be last resort.

    To me skidding can be greatly diminished if people rode correctly. Take one of Simons or Kat's classes and clean up your form.
    .~...|\
    ...~.|.\
    ..~..|..\
    .~...|...\
    ~....|....\
    ...~.|.....\
    ....~|____\
    _____||_________
    .\....FAILBOAT..../

  17. #17
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    Hey I stole it now I have to have class?

    This is an ancient thread so why toss inflammation onto an extinguished idea?

    I need some Tylenol...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo View Post
    Hey I stole it now I have to have class?

    This is an ancient thread so why toss inflammation onto an extinguished idea?

    I need some Tylenol...
    Skookum's post is inflammatory? I think you need more than Tylenol to cure what ailes you. And btw, 2 weeks is not ancient.

  19. #19
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    Who said pavers?

    Who wants to carry pavers down the side of a mountain?!

    You can be sure of two things:

    Ranger dirt is up to the rest of you. I've got 5 or 10 years left to pedal and not planning to do more with ranger than tell you when the trees and snow are gone each spring until relieved.

    As we can see this has the potential to drive a wedge into our community but this topic will surface again so use cool heads and stick to facts and explore speculative questions like pavers graciously.

    Who said pavers?

    See you on the trails.
    Last edited by paleo; 09-03-2013 at 08:17 PM.

  20. #20
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    Wow, we are all on the same team right guys? This ongoing issue of these switchbacks is on the radar of the USFS and Evergreen. Here's an idea; come to 410 Fest, ride with friends, close the pc for a couple of days, and help out on the trails. There are several trail maintenance opportunities for us all on these trails, the more of you who come out to help, the more we can accomplish. Let's take all this "energy" and put it into the trails. Here's a link to the event. Ride and work leaders needed.
    Evergreen MTB Calendar

    Graham@evergreenmtb.org to get involved. (no forum-style smack talking necessary via email)

  21. #21
    bro not pro
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    reviving this thread from last year as the full on 410 shuttling season is here again
    G O N Z

  22. #22
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    Isn't Ranger Creek an "up-trail"?

    One thing is for certain; next months Enduro-plague isn't going to help things.
    God, I sound like an old curmudgeon.

  23. #23
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    I see lots of people bomb down Ranger. When you shuttle up there its fun to hit all 3 trails.

    Personally Id rather bomb down Deep Creek if Im doing 1 run. People dont climb that one, and it's steeper and faster!
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lynch View Post
    Personally Id rather bomb down Deep Creek if Im doing 1 run. People dont climb that one, and it's steeper and faster!
    I've not been to 410 in years, but in the past, I'd climb ranger as well. Deep Creek is the bomb.

  25. #25
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    I attended the Evergreen work party back in May and we worked on a couple of the lower switchbacks on Ranger. The upper ones need a lot of work.

    For what its worth, I can guarantee Ranger will not be descended for the CDC enduro.

  26. #26
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    High elevation trails like that are going to get erosion. I bet a lot of it is from water run off from rain and snow melt more than guys skidding.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  27. #27
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    Completely disagree Lynch. Many of us have ridden lots of high elevation trails without shuttle access that do just fine. Deep Creek would never be built like that in today's day and age. No one in their right mind would climb Corral just to waste all that elevation going back down so fast. But, no point adding to another "coasters are A-holes" thread.

  28. #28
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    Who says we are in our right mind!
    The Ranger-Palisades route is a great loop, but several of my buddies and I feel the last section thru the rocks is so anti-climantic that it almost ruins the ride. Spending the last 20 minutes of a great ride walking/trials riding thru huge boulders sucks. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with me, but im ok with that.
    If I'm climbing Ranger then riding down Palisades is the way to go.

    If I climb Corral Pass, I do sometime choose Deep Creek over the others. Deep Creek might be short, but it is 100% smiles all the way down. No real worry about people coming up, faster and more technical that the other trails and when you get to the end there is no hike a bike!

    There is no real wrong way to do it up there, unless you ride down Corral Pass!
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  29. #29
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    you could require anti-lock braking systems on that trail and it wouldn't make too much of a difference. Hiking-trail switchbacks are tight, a lot of them on Ranger are scary, it's just going to have the inside-foot-clip-out-pivot hole'n'trench and the "hell no I'm not trying that" overshoot to 180-waddle (that seems to extend the upper part of the turn).

    I think it's just a steep hiker trail that sees more and more traffic. Skidding's never been good for a trail, but is there really any evidence to suggest there's been a percentage increase in skidding--other than just more bikes overall? And everybody I saw out there on Sunday was over 25, I'm not so sure they're even aware of slo mo go pro dubstep skid vids.

  30. #30
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    We bought our selfs some good grace with the USFS this spring by tuning up two of the SB on Ranger. "Dumb down" or not, Got to pay to play, cuz erosion always gets blamed on tires.

    Everything Going up trail is good to Little Ranger Peak but the last SB before you break off to the viewpoint. That one is trying to find it's way back to the grade of the hillside. The five or so up to the cabin will always be a hike-a-bike.
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  31. #31
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    I'm usually so tired by the time I near the cabin it could be flat and those turns would be hike a bike!

    Hopefully the event goes smooth and the USFS gives us bikers more access to their lands.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  32. #32
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    Have been following this thread, and took a good look at the issue on Saturday. Very nice work and much appreciated on the lower couple of switchbacks. Re: the several upper hike/bike switchbacks: the only fix I could come up with would be extending a section of trail beyond the switchback, and creating a more favorable/sustainable/bench cut corner. Then trailing back to the original path at a somewhat lower cut. Feasibility open for discussion.

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    > The five or so up to the cabin will always be a hike-a-bike.

    No - These are ride able, if not always in practice then certainly in theory.

    >The Ranger-Palisades route is a great loop, but several of my buddies and I feel the >last section thru the rocks is so anti-climantic

    ?? There is only a very short 10' section of boulders where you have to walk and I think it might be ride able as well. You mean down below the stairs right ? Is that really enough to color the ride after 40 minutes of downhilling ? The trials type riding IS mountain biking.

    I know I come off in a bad light here, but I Just have this fear of the trails getting so smoothed out we won't have any gnarly left.

  34. #34
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    After the stairs that last section thru the rocks is technically ridable, but I dont find it very fun, and it seems to go on forever (probably because I'm tired). It feels like working thru that section takes longer then the rest of the descent did.

    I love the rough rugged stuff (why I prefer Deep Creek), but I wish they could reroute the entire lower section of Palisades. Its not enough for me to not ride the trail, its just a section I dont really care for.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  35. #35
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    Hmmm, I'm with Preston. I'd rather ride Palisades any day than Deep Creek.... There's nothing "Gnarly" about Deep other than it's steep and rutted from all the skid marks... I already know my brakes work.

  36. #36
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    I like climbing Palisades, do it often. Climbing on Saturday, through the lower series of tough switchbacks, our group came across a female runner coming downhill. I was first to meet her and we engaged in conversation. There was no conflict of any nature in our meeting, however, she was vocal that she did not like bikes on this trail. She explained that bikes were tearing up the trails, rutting and skidding around corners, and she was very unhappy with the trails current condition. She said it was her (and her groups) intention to have Palisades closed to bikes, and they had formally filed a complaint with the U.S. Forest Service.

  37. #37
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    That's rich, trail runners complaining about the trail.
    God why are people so uptight.

  38. #38
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    Just keep the gates closed so that the trails cannot be shuttled and the rutting problem will be reduced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodway View Post
    Just keep the gates closed so that the trails cannot be shuttled and the rutting problem will be reduced.
    YES !
    I like DH as much as anyone but have always felt these trails are too back country to shuttle.

    Of course many other tourists/hikers drive up there besides bikers.

  40. #40
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    Ditto ^^^^^^

    But, this comes up every few years and nothing is done about it....

  41. #41
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    Were the Corral Pass trails in better shape last year when the road was closed? I donít remember. I rode Deep Creek last week and it needs some TLC.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    That's rich, trail runners complaining about the trail.
    God why are people so uptight.
    That's what I was thinking, Preston.

    Those switchbacks are always going to get tore up unless they get a full rebuild and by that, I mean the approaches on the uphilll/descent need to be flattened and preferably taken uphill for a bit to slow riders down without having to lay into your brakes (whether skidding or not). Instead of just cosmetic fixes, I think that's the long-term solution.

    EB

  43. #43
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    Skidding around corners wasn't much of a problem back in the day before disk brakes. Now every edit on the web has a pro tearing up a corner with slo-mo of the dirt flying. There's been many articles written over the years, but with disk brakes people are always going to lock up the rear and slide too much into/around the corners. I yell at my friends, but it's tough when the bike industry is promoting and building bikes to do this.

  44. #44
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    All of these full suspension bikes with fat, knobby tires are the problem. People are riding too fast and coming into the corners too hot.
    We need to get back to the good old days of fully rigid, steel and 20" wheels.

    That would also help with the over-crowding problem.

  45. #45
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    Speaking of trail runners, this Saturday is their annual White River 50 race. It's probably a good idea for mountain bikers to stay away from Palisade/Ranger/Suntop area trails so as not to irk them further. It's absolutely un-fun for MTBers too anyway, since hundreds of runners will be on the trail, strung out, so you'd end up not being able to ride but short section at a time.

    If you insist on riding the area trails, recommended way would be to stick with Suntop if riding earlier in the morning (i.e. starting 9 or earlier) while runners are on Palisade side, or wait until mid afternoon and ride Ranger/Palisade side after the runners have crossed over to Suntop side.

  46. #46
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    This thread was started last year so I think the answer to your question is no, at least according to some. As EB stated some of the switchbacks need to be seriously overhauled or this problem will continue. This is a popular area and gets a lot of use. Evergreen did a great job with a couple of the lower Ranger switchbacks, not overhauled but at least reinforced. Its a good start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greydon Clark View Post
    Were the Corral Pass trails in better shape last year when the road was closed? I donít remember. I rode Deep Creek last week and it needs some TLC.

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