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Thread: Tolt cleanup

  1. #1
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    Tolt cleanup

    Being sick i didn't make it out to my Tue. night ride, but i got word it is a mess up there.

    go figure.

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    Group of us ride Tolt regularly Sat @ 7:30. There is a ride posted for 1/28 on EMBA.

    Side email to group is to plan to bring a saw… there WILL be trail clearing to be done.
    All are welcome, join if ya can… many hands and all that.
    Sean

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    Got a note back from my riding buddies that it took them 45 minutes to get to the sign board half way up IAB. that was the extent of their ride.

    I'll try and make it Sat morning.

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    Hmmmm… sounds like the need for a saw bigger than I’m going to stick in my Camelback.
    This could be interesting.

    But if you join us ya stiff Woodway at PVCA…
    But any trail work is good any place right now

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    Good progress

    We had a good turn out for the work party.
    Got lots work done. The attached map shows the trails that we covered.
    These trails are clear of the big stuff and mostly clear of the smaller branches.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tolt cleanup-toltclear.jpg  

    Mike

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    BTW - there were some other groups working out there. If they see this, please update the map, so that we know where to target in the future.
    Mike

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    SWEET! thanks for the work out there.

    I have my Tue night ride posted with a note to bring fold up saws. I hope to hit some of the perimeter stuff and get it cleared.


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    Rode and cleared out at Tolt today with a buddy. Also saw another small group with a saw late in the day. Very rainy. The trails are very wet and muddy. We rode/finished clearing IAB>Bobs>Ice Rose>OD>Dancin>Severance>Go Cart>Blair Witch>Toothpick>Cousins>Babes Marine>Mystery. All were rideable and had been mostly cleared of the bulk of debris. Several limbs still here and there that we got, and a still few large trees that we sawed up and cleared. We also cut 10-12 largera trees that were left from other spots that were already mostly cleared (the 4 biggies on IAB). Also had a large cluster of Big Leaf Maple that fell on IAB apparently while we were up top that we cleared on the way down(watch out while your riding...I heard another large branch fall today).
    We were actually blown away at how cleared the trails were at Tolt today. I am sure there are trails out there still in need, but the mountain bike community kicks some tail up there in a very short time. Props to all those who helped out there and/or at other trails!
    Ibis Mojo HDR 650b
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    Thanks for the update! Yes, Mike did a great job leading the group on Saturday, and glad you were able to clear more today. If the rain cooperates we'll hit as many of the others as we can on the Tuesday night ride.

    It's a relief Tolt isn't as bad as expected. Will be great to get it completely cleared so we can move efforts on to other areas.

    Charlie

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    Sat Before/After pictures

    Thanks to everyone that showed up to help, and big thanks to Mike for organizing the WP. Made great progress on Saturday.
    The biggest blow down was on IAB in the switchbacks by the big sign. It took us 1.5 hours to make it up to the 5 way at the top. Then splitting into two groups we were really able to cover some ground and make some progress.
    Some Before/After pictures from Saturday’s work…
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tolt cleanup-iab-1txt.jpg  

    Tolt cleanup-iab-2txt.jpg  

    Tolt cleanup-iab-3txt.jpg  

    Tolt cleanup-iab-4txt.jpg  

    Tolt cleanup-iab-5txt.jpg  

    Tolt cleanup-iab-6txt.jpg  

    Tolt cleanup-iab-7txt.jpg  

    Tolt cleanup-iab-8txt.jpg  


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    Just wow. Great job guys! Looks like when we were all out there post wind storm a few years ago going through 2 cycle waaay too fast.

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    WOW, I had no idea it was that bad. Very impressive work. It seems like some of that timber could be used to block some of the braiding on the lower switchback? Its been awhile since I've been up there but it looked like the lower switchback on IAB was getting cut a little short by I think hikers. I tried to block it a few times but somebody kept removing the anti braiding measures.

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    I feel for ya nwbiker. Funny how that happens. One of the reasons I don't ride Tolt much at all anymore. I gave up trying block all the short cuts and braiding anytime something got, "too hard to ride". I wonder how some will feel though about losing all that marketable timber...

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    Talk about a ready made timber sale.

    The braiding and trail modification at Tolt has really been maddening for me. I'm sure its always happened out there but it seems like in the last couple of years its gotten a little worse. One great thing that Tolt had (and still does to a lesser degree thanks to dumbing down) were little semi challenging obstacles. Things like small step ups next to trees, root/sharp turn combos, small log obstacles. For beginners they might have to dismount. But these were nice obstacles to learn and improve skills. They weren't particularly intimidating but hard enough to make a beginner or intermediate feel satisfied if cleared.

    Braiding is such a short sighted thing to do to a trail. Once a trail is modified to make it "easier" then the bar is now set lower. So then somebody a few years down the road thinks this newer version is too hard so they make more modifications and so on. Over time this is catastrophic to a trail in my opinion. I don't want to ride my FS on a sidewalk in the woods, man. Anyhow preaching to the choir here.

    Now every time I go to Tolt I have to brace myself for the new modifications that are sure to crop up. What's it going to be this time.

  15. #15
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    When I think of the Tolt braiding, I always thought the bigger issue was how close some of the trails get to each other or how close it switchbacks next to itself. Those are prime for folks cutting through. Granted, I've not ridden there in years, but I can recall the various "intersections" that had popped up unnecessarily strictly because of how close everything was to each other. Same could be said at Tower of Power - although there is way less room to build there.

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    Hehehe. Reminds me of a conversation I had with the main "builder" out there as he simply cut branches back and barely cleared the earth to create a "trail" orginally. His justifiable reply was, "If you don't like it, go build your own trails." The cool thing is that a lot of us learned a lot from that and "toltify" became a common trailbuilding term around here denoting not building too close together for fear of easy brading by those that would seek to do so. The lack of underbrush in there doesn't bode well for seperation either. There's a lot of miles in a real small area up there...

  17. #17
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    Interesting point on the closeness issue, certainly a trail design to be avoided. I haven't really noticed any new intersections although I'm sure some of the "preexisting" ones probably originated that way. I'm seeing a lot of existing log removal, shortcuts around small, doable obstacles and just general dumbing down of the preexisting trail.

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    That system probably changes more than any other around here. Many of the old original trail sections that got bypassed are barely recognizable any more. The Burn also used to be one continuous trail without intersections from the one end of Shaefer to the other. And, they only "connected" at the ends at the road on the West and on Mainline on the East. I just ride around there until I'm done and head back to the 5 way and don't even bother with noticing the intersections anymore. At one point I put up 46 (23 trails marked) can lid signs hanging from wires at both trail entrances at the ends and that wasn't even getting all of it. Unfortunatlely, most are gone now.

  19. #19
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    Bob brings up a good point, I don't care how many intersections are added. When we ride there,we ride for about two hours, doesn't matter if we ride one trail or 47.

    As for "dumbing down" out there, it's not like it is a highly technical area in the first place. There have been some re-routes mainly due to low muddy spots, but there are still some tricky up hill step ups that only about 20% of riders can clean.

    I'm heading out there in about 3 hours from now with a folding saw ready to clear any more we run across, but it looks like a ton has been done out there. thanks to all who have contibuted.

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    Just got home from a night ride. things looking pretty good out there, we rode MLR to Pearl to the intersection of the burn. MLR and pearl had a lot of branches and small trees down still. We got it all cleared except for one section on Pearl very close to the Burn. It was getting late and it was a clump of about 4 trees. Could use a chainsaw but a hand saw would be do-able.

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    A lot more clearing than riding tonight, but making progress. Although I have a feeling the rest of this winter season will be worse than the last few as there is a lot of damage that has yet to come down. Folding saws will be a lot more common in packs.

    BTW - there is a nasty widow maker directly overhead the group of blowdowns on Pearl that Jim mentioned. It's about 20 feet up and snagged pretty good, but be aware of it and let anyone know who may decide to clear that spot.

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    Thanks for the updates. How's the snow content on the Tolt trails? I may head out there on Saturday with a folding saw.

    We hiked around PVCA last weekend with a bow-saw and rake. We didn't bother bringing the bikes...it was a good decision.

    Thanks...Dave

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    Mazzino, Foo Foo told me you guys were out in PV. So, "thank you". I mentioned that he should let Brian C know so he could add your hours to the log for the county and also so the rest of us would know what you guys worked on so we could check it off.

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    Snow is essentially gone at Tolt, a few remnants of deeper piles in shady areas but trails were 90% snow free last night and likely much more has melted with the heavy rain overnight.

    Absolutely take your bikes on Sat and making it a rolling work party. You can get the majority with folding saws, just post back where loud saws are needed. Head towards the southern trails since they haven't been mentioned on this thread yet. We hoped to get to Tour de Stump, '76, etc. last night but ran out of time.

    Thanks in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Mazzino, Foo Foo told me you guys were out in PV. So, "thank you". I mentioned that he should let Brian C know so he could add your hours to the log for the county and also so the rest of us would know what you guys worked on so we could check it off.
    Thanks Borneo. I got a trailwork form from Evergreen that I was going to fill out for Saturday, but may just contact Brian C. first.

    Phaedrus thanks for the info.
    Last edited by mazzino; 02-01-2012 at 01:12 PM.

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