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  1. #1
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    Tokul West question

    Great ride out there this morning, think I might have passed Slop and couple other guys too. One question though, is Full Bench still rideable? I could not find the start of it based on the 2009 map on the Evergreen site, but it looked like there were a couple new logging roads branching off that area that weren't on the map too. I know that's close to the property border, so I didn't want to chance it without knowing where I was headed.

    On the plus side I found Poopy D instead, which was a good way to link up the upper trails with stuff like Bobsled.
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  2. #2
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    I went down full bench a couple months ago, but it was pretty heavily overgrown, and before too long you come out into the recently logged areas. The day I was down there which was a Sunday if I remember right, the loggers were at work, so I reversed course and went back up. Hopefully that trail will live again in the future. Come out the bottom of Poopy D, turn right, go up the road until you curve right, turn left down another road. At the end of that road on the left the trail starts. You've got to get right up to it to see the start.

  3. #3
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    It has not received any maintenance in some time since Tokul Timber LLC has been logging at the bottom and not being to friendly with users of the land. It starts off the end of the logging spur north of where it used to start. The upper/flat section is gone but the trail starts at the fun stuff switching back down still.
    How was Poopy? Brushy or pretty open. It can "flow" either way once you get the hang of it. Nice to pair up with Middle for crossing over from the top to the bottom.

  4. #4
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    Ah, I thought it might be down a spur off the logging road shown on the old map, but I was too pressed for time to try the couple that I saw up there. Next time.

    Poopy was fine, a little tight in places, but not too bad at all. Went up beaver pond, did Upper Outback to Outhouse, looked for Full Bench, then figured Poopy would connect back to the lower stuff (whihch it did), then finally bobsled to the steep connector to the gated road.

    Good day overall, little misty but cool, so the dirt was good. My legs were sore from other rides earlier this week, so this was a nice way to spend time on the bike close by. Last time I was there was January, and I was just not feeling it compared to East. But I get the vibe there now, looking forward to riding there more this winter.

    New 1x10 set up helps me appreciate it more...
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  5. #5
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    Nope, slop was out poking around on Table Mtn today (near E-berg). Borneo pretty much answered your question. We do have plans to add a trail that goes along the perimeter of the property from FullBench to Bobsled, but it will take a lot of effort. If we pull this off, we'll extend the top so its close to the top of PPD as well.
    Bob, rode PPD last week, was in good shape. Still needs more riding to really shape the turns, but its getting there.

  6. #6
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    The turns weren't bad today, just a tiny bit overgrown so hard to see is all. Really not a big deal though, fun trail.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by slop View Post
    We do have plans to add a trail that goes along the perimeter of the property from FullBench to Bobsled, but it will take a lot of effort. If we pull this off, we'll extend the top so its close to the top of PPD as well.
    .
    Would this be at the bottom of Full Bench/Bob Sled or on top in the clear cut. A cool route would be down Bobsled, across new trail, up full bench, down PPD or Middle. Or the reverse. Never been a fan of the trails across the lower road (Bra, etc.) Too straight, flat, and muddy for me.

  8. #8
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    Yes, more or less. Start near bottom of bobsled...the sweeping left turn where the trail levels out...upto the road where the gate is (this will be the easy part)... And then continue through the old clear cut to somewhere on FB...probably near the top. We will need to keep it on Hancock property. The bottom of FB as well as the flat trails (Bra, Monster, Bear, etc) are on MaCaw property and they don't like trespassers.

  9. #9
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    Make sense to bag most of Full Bench as a primary trail. It's usually too steep and dusty to climb successfully and not much fun going down for the same reasons. And leads to nowhere.

    I used to love this trail in the trees but it's not good as a clear cut trail. Creating a long low-angle return to the lower road junction would be a huge plus up and down. Trying to visualize the topo but seems feasible. That's me, virtual trail-builder...it's less-tiring.

  10. #10
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    http://goo.gl/maps/FT4aZ

    Just zoom out to see in relation to the rest of the system.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  11. #11
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    Nice pic. Must be from the last month or so. Shows the new Beaver Pond climbing trail.
    Full Bench...the boundary is where the trail enters the woods. We will need to run the trail along the edge somehow, but it will be a ton of work. Scroll out enough and you can see how much cutting Hancock has been doing the last couple years..with more to come.

  12. #12
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    Thanks, looks like it was just down one of the small spurs I passed like I thought, sounds like it's not worth riding now anyway.

    Is GS rideable now? Haven't been on that one either...
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  13. #13
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    Hopefully it can be revived. A lot of work went into the initial build and it sure would be a waste....

    GS? Hearing good reviews and the topic of a lot of "off season" work to get better this fall/winter/spring... Probably somewhat brushy in places but mud isn't back yet I hear.

  14. #14
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    Spike is in about the best shape it can be and we will be working on it in a few weeks...might even post a work party!

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    Looking at the map it would be awesome if FB was extended to run all the way from "Middle" trail area, around the clearcut to somehow connect all the way down to the main SVT trail.

  16. #16
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    Yep. We all dream.... But, we also know the reality in getting trail built.

  17. #17
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    Is there a map of the trails that are still in place post clearcuts? I just moved back to the area and want to know what is still riding well.

  18. #18
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    Not "complete" for release yet... Upper FB is gone and not replaced yet. Beaver Pond is still there though the upper horsey entrance should still be blocked and one can get in a little farther up the road where it is signed. It also just got some brushing love from UncleDeanXC and the Tuesday night crew. The lower trail folks stopped using anyways below Pink Ribbon is gone. The DH portion that it connected to has been resurrected though. So, not all that much lost.

  19. #19
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    Another vote for an updated map. The signs help a lot, but there's a lot different out there from the 2009 map on the Evergreen site it seems like.
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  20. #20
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    Lots of good feedback on the signage which is good to hear. Map? There is.... And, it's being worked on. As we all know, a bad map is worse than no map at all.
    May actually ride Thursday and move some tools from the future logging area...And assess some winter work area.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    May actually ride Thursday and move some tools from the future logging area...And assess some winter work area.
    Does that explain the disappearance of the trail gnome? I was just out there and he's gone. Moved out of the soon to be logged area? Or has he gone missing?

    Tokul West question-p1000023-smaller.jpg

  22. #22
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    Yes, FreakyB. Gnome is hanging out near the top of outback/outhouse. Ever check out what was in the gnome stump?

  23. #23
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    Hmmmm, I may have to go look tomorrow.... Closer to the road, which is "good".

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by slop View Post
    Ever check out what was in the gnome stump?
    I have. There are lots of treasures up in that forest. I've pulled a couple paper weights (logging spikes) out of those old stumps. People at work want them but I'm not sharing.
    Last edited by Ladmo; 09-19-2013 at 05:15 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakybro View Post
    I have.
    I was on both outback and outhouse yesterday and didn't see the gnome, but those two trails are my favorite part of Tokul east or west so I'm usually picking up speed and it's all eyes on the trail at that point. Next time, I'll look around a little.
    Last edited by Ladmo; 09-19-2013 at 05:18 AM.

  26. #26
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    Those 2 trails are pretty "old" for out there. Outback being 2003 and Outhouse 2005. Any thoughts about opening them up and add more "flow" for today's standards? Not much has been done to either since the initial build other than annual maintenance. Outback got a minor reroute above the blow down mess and below the rock roll around 2006 or so but no one seems to mind that little climb there as a result. will be looking for the new gnome location as well in about 8 hours.

  27. #27
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    Brushing and berms Bob, that's all you need
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  28. #28
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    I guess I don't understand what flow is then because outback especially and also outhouse are the perfect combination of speed and tech for the riding I like to do. I like them just the way they are.

  29. #29
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    LIKE ^^^^^

    Less work to do....

    There are a few places that could use some touch ups though.

  30. #30
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    I think the top trails area actually perfect. Don't need to be completely pinned to still enjoy some "flow"

  31. #31
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    I Agree with Borneo. A few tweaks but keep the nature of the trails the same.

    B. Gnome is hanging out next to a tree for now. Hopefully the sawyers will leave his home intact. Or maybe we should make his move permanent.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Those 2 trails are pretty "old" for out there. Outback being 2003 and Outhouse 2005. Any thoughts about opening them up and add more "flow" for today's standards?
    Holy crizzap -- what alternate universe did I wake up in this morning?

    I'm actually for leaving them alone for the most part. They've both been ripping fast the last few times I've ridden them -- especially Outback all the way to the bottom.

    Death to the Dumb-Downers!
    Last edited by GeePhroh; 09-19-2013 at 02:22 PM.

  33. #33
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    Spent about 4 hours out there this afternoon. Other than Beaver pond that's a little "dry" the rest of the trails were rolling great! Moved a few tools, gave Steakhouse and Bon house some dirt and drain love, checked out the top of Full Bench. Yeah, it wouldn't take much to pimp it back up and it would be fine for winter use. The question would be what we would find at the bottom. Speaking of finding things. Finally found the gnome's new home. Rode right by him. Nice and warm up there this afternoon so I was hoping he would have friends. Denied.... So good to be back on the bike after almost 9 weeks off. Even if I have to take it easy. BTW: Saw or heard no one else in the time I was out here. But, one can tell GS is getting some good use. It is indeed weed whacker and leaf blower season!

  34. #34
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    I'll try to give the gnome some product soon. Perhaps something more for the winter time riders.

    How about an official work party middle of October? Focus on spike perhaps. Rode through there yesterday and the section that's going to get the creek crossing had the most standing water.

  35. #35
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    Outback and Outhouse and Steakhouse are some of my favorite trails as-is. Although I love the steep chuddery by-pass to the left on Outback Extension and wish there was more of that....in Washington.

  36. #36
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    Hmmm, I used to continually block that straight line off but just eventually gave up. Actually started with moto use out there. I have never actually ridden that way. I like that most people just want to keep things the way they are though. At least, those that have replied.

  37. #37
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    The work involved getting to these trails, such as it is, is enough greater than Duthie, etc, that I rarely see people out there that appear to need or want the trails made easier. The best thing about outback and outhouse is that they reward good braking technique and line selection due to the quick transitions between speed sections and tight corners. Throw in the worn in surface that keeps me on my toes and it makes for the funnest ride out there. The only way outback could be better is if there could be more extensions added on that are just like the existing trail.

  38. #38
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    How about a right turn at the end straight down to Griffin Creek!

    Borneo - Sorry for using the unofficial bypass but...it's more fun than the other section and is long enough that it's not a "trail-braid". It's more like a "more difficult" option. I'd say make it official. I'm a guy that stops and blocks trail braids.

  39. #39
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    It does allow the continuation of "at speed" which I get but I'm stubborn so I'll keep using the old way. No worries though. it's staying now. Need to make the old way more "fun"... There have been thoguhts of peeling off Extension down to the end of the road at the Griffin Creek crossing for years. Wanna spear head it?

    That said, any comments on filling in the rock roll on Outback so one can easier hit it at speed coming down?

  40. #40
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    Tempting...I'll ponder that as my October/Nov is pretty open. Is that all Hancock land? Wonder if there could be a climbing trail back to the area of Full Bench or PPD/Middle. Or is there road back up?

    Rock Roll...lots of speed there. Would be cool to have it setup to jump better.

  41. #41
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    There's a road back up via the power lines. Some "newer" clearcut near the bottom to go through. Oh, and a current ban on any new trail pending county schtuff...

  42. #42
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    Hopefully getting closer to new trail approval. OB extension actually gets quite close to the Hancock Boundary. There really isn't enough Hancock property to extend the extension. And dropping down near the top of OB gets into water issues.
    Better potential might be to build down into the woods on the other side of the clearcut out past OB. Question is would anyone pedal out to it.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by slop View Post
    Gnome is hanging out near the top of outback/outhouse.
    Gotcha

    Tokul West question-new-gnome-home-small.jpg

  44. #44
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    Do most people just go up Beaver pond to get up to the upper trails at T West? Is there a road route up?

    I've gotten much better at climbing over the years, but that still is a lot of hike and bike for me, especially right at the start of the ride when I'm not warmed up. Are there other options?
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  45. #45
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    1. I added a short bypass trail to avoid the steep root ball at the bottom of BP. Also, you can climb up the roads instead of staying on BP.
    2. Post clearcut, I think most people climb Bobsled because it is shaded, but it has some steep parts.
    3. You can trespass onto the McCaw property and circle around on the dirt roads. You can reach the top of BS, as well as Middle and PPd this way.

  46. #46
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    See thread with Perfect Tokul West Route. Although it has a flaw in climbing Full Bench which right now is off property and overgrown. The road route in #3 above is a mild climb which bypasses climbing bobsled and actually goes past the top of BS.

    Or to elaborate on #1, take the bypass from SVT to the first road and go right up that road all the way to the top with optional trail excursions. Or take Beaver Pond one more road up and again go right on the road to end up at the same place eventually.

    Or go up one of the 2 Tokul East roads and cross over on Golden Spike for the Tour de Tokul.

    Most of these roads are quite visible on the web sat maps.

  47. #47
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    Thanks. Sounds like a lot of stuff is on other peoples property, and I still am not sure what the actual boundaries are and what is ok to ride or not these days.
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  48. #48
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    Most of the time to get to the top, I go beaver pond, middle, steak house, bon house, bon bon, but yesterday I went up bobsled to middle instead of beaver pond to middle. Either way is fun. Going up bobsled right before that tree root place the doubletrack forks left up towards where the start of Bra was. Somewhere not far up that road the ownership changes, but as far as I know, all the trails I've listed above are legal.

  49. #49
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    Got over to T-West for the first time in ages. Weird to ride up lower Beaver Pond and not really recognize it... but then I never used to ride up it before. On the way down it felt more familiar. Still weird how different the (more-or-less) same trail can be. Thanks for PPD and Middle! And Bonhouse. (House of Bonbons? :-p)

    Saw that trees along the trail are marked around Bonbon/Upper Outback. Do you guys know when they might be harvesting over there?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by roundnround View Post
    Saw that trees along the trail are marked around Bonbon/Upper Outback. Do you guys know when they might be harvesting over there?
    I didn't know you were back here, let's go ride sometime!

    The BonBon/Moonraker/Mousetrap area is getting logged this winter. Not sure exactly when, but I'm guessing after the first of the year. I met on site a month ago with a Hancock forester who was trying to figure out how to do the logging so that we can easily reopen the trails.

    No logging will happen below the road this winter, but all the mature forest in the entire Tokul zone is about at harvest age, so we'll see a fair bit of cutting in the coming years. They usually (but not always) wait a few years before cutting adjacent to recent harvests, and the trend is toward smaller cuts instead of doing a huge area all at once.

  51. #51
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    Yeah, RnR didn't really leak that out. We all sorta had to find out from local reference FBposts, etc... What he didn't mention was how Bon Bon and the upper reroute has been standing the test of time with minimal repair. (thumbs up to both of you...)
    I like that the "T" markings are everywhere and we may actually have a minimal clearing job after the cut like BP was. More weed whacking in our future though....

  52. #52
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    Good to hear you're back on your bike Borneo! And thanks for all your hard work out there!!
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakybro View Post
    I guess I don't understand what flow is then because outback especially and also outhouse are the perfect combination of speed and tech for the riding I like to do. I like them just the way they are.
    Famous last words...

  54. #54
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    i'm not sure if i'm describing this, but here goes,
    the road that goes from the east end of mouse trap to the end of moonraker (the one where in the middle, you could turn further east and head to the trail that crosses the powerline and head to the golden spike), got improved.

    i was out there in the dark by myself on wednesday evening, came across the spike from east to west, down to that junction and found a dozer and a lot of new road to the left, toward what i think is called moonraker. didn't want to spend time huting around for where moonraker split off the new road, so went right to mousetrap instead. i'm sure that end of moonraker is still finable, but my light batteries were all on red at that point in the night.

    i heard hancock named this logging project 'forest gnome'. that made me chuckle.
    :: hf ::

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlowfarnsworth View Post
    i'm not sure if i'm describing this, but here goes,
    the road that goes from the east end of mouse trap to the end of moonraker (the one where in the middle, you could turn further east and head to the trail that crosses the powerline and head to the golden spike), got improved.

    i was out there in the dark by myself on wednesday evening, came across the spike from east to west, down to that junction and found a dozer and a lot of new road to the left, toward what i think is called moonraker. didn't want to spend time huting around for where moonraker split off the new road, so went right to mousetrap instead. i'm sure that end of moonraker is still finable, but my light batteries were all on red at that point in the night.

    i heard hancock named this logging project 'forest gnome'. that made me chuckle.
    Hancock started working on that road a couple of weeks ago in preparation for the logging on the tract of timber that includes BonBon/Mousetrap/Upper Outback/Moonraker as well as a bit of that upper end of Golden Spike between BonBon and the powerlines.

    That road is where BonBon started and losing that part of BonBon is frankly no big loss. Moonraker forks off from BonBon at the big stump and heads north towards Mousetrap and Outback.

  56. #56
    What's it to you, buddy?
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    last wednesday that new road improvement wasn't there. so i was surprised to see it all this week.

    okay, i think i understand,
    so from the stump where gnomey used to be, moonraker goes toward mousetrap. are you saying it's bonbon that stays on the plateau and heads towards that new road improvement, is that right? then what's the trail that goes from the gnomey stump, downhill into some switchbacks towards the lower middle road?
    :: hf ::

  57. #57
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    You can access BobBon trail fairly easily by riding down the new skid rd a short distance. Too funny that they are calling the cut 'Forest Gnome'. Wonder if they ever looked inside the stump he lived in?

  58. #58
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    Correct. BonBon is the whole trail that heads uphill (and connects with Golden Spike) from the road that accesses Steakhouse, Outback, and Outhouse to the west and Upper Outback, Mousetrap (the mini-flow), and BonBon to the east. Moonraker connects BonBon and Mousetrap on the top of that small plateau.

    The road rebuilding started on Monday, the 4th of November. I was riding and had to turn back on BonBon as the Hancock crew was actively felling trees and clearing the old roadbed area and I couldn't/wouldn't go through while they were working.

  59. #59
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    Big thanks to whoever shrubbed back all the ferns on PPD. Trail is flying now. Everything else is in great shape as well. Get out and ride it while it is still frozen. Also spotted the Horses left bikers right sign on the new Bobsled.

  60. #60
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    Also heads up. 12" tree down on Beaver Pond, upper section between big rock jump and the stump rollover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
    How about a right turn at the end straight down to Griffin Creek!
    Belated reply to this bit:

    I believe Griffin Creek is a salmon spawning creek. That means when a trail is discovered crossing it and reported to King County, they'll probably be pretty grumpy. Please factor that into your trail building plans.

    (Besides, with the trails on the other side now being closed it seems much less appealing to build trail down to the creek...)

  62. #62
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    Extending the old Full Bench trail seems tricky. You can see the property boundaries overlayed on the aerial photos using King County ParcelViewer:

    King County Parcel Viewer 2.0 (beta)

    Put 0224079001 into the search box just above the map, switch the search type to Parcel number, search. Then click Basemaps and pick the King County Aerial 2012.

    The parcel to the north and west of the clearcut are both owned by unfriendly people, so you'd have to route southwest/southward through the clearcut.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleDeanXC View Post
    Also heads up. 12" tree down on Beaver Pond, upper section between big rock jump and the stump rollover.
    I think Mike (and possibly me, if I get up early enough) is going to go up and saw it out tomorrow morning.

  64. #64
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    Tokul West question

    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    I think Mike (and possibly me, if I get up early enough) is going to go up and saw it out tomorrow morning.
    Slop and I took care of that Beaver Pond blow down this morning. All clear. We also cleared about 8 more blowdown on some old trails that we're hoping to open sometime this spring. :-)

    Cheers,
    Mike

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