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  1. #1
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    Tokul East lower area (with pics)

    Well, I'd heard about it, but had to see for myself.

    Looking at the entry I took for the last 9 years, to climb up into that fun "lower" warmup:



    What greets you at the top:



    Further carnage where that "impossible rooty climb" was....now a "road."



    Walking the area:



    I know life goes on, and I've enjoyed this area greatly, especially since it's been my backyard for the last 9 years, but this truly does sadden me. I know it's not my property, and I have wonderful memories of this place. This said, I think I'll let it go to my memory banks as good times past. I don't really want to ride here anymore.
    Last edited by nasai; 02-12-2012 at 05:55 PM. Reason: added title
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  2. #2
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    Did you pay your $75 to go walk that area?

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    I didn't know you were still riding at all...

  4. #4
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    @Jim... of course. I never break any laws. Ever.

    @Borneo... lately, no. I have been so busy developing my business that I've left little time for play, but after our walk today, my wife has convinced me to be a better "body care" guy... In other words, I'll get out there. Just not at Tokul any time soon. Probably Tolt or PV.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  5. #5
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    Sad Day....But, I guess like all trails, it was just a matter of time.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasai View Post
    I have been so busy developing my business that I've left little time for play, but after our walk today, my wife has convinced me to be a better "body care" guy... In other words, I'll get out there. Just not at Tokul any time soon. Probably Tolt or PV.
    You might want to give Henry's Ridge a try. It might be a little out of your way but great things have been going on over there lately.

    But ya, the Tokul situation kinda sucks.

  7. #7
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    I dig Henry's ridge. Last time I was there, it was a little small, so I'll have to check it out again. Honestly, it's been forever since I've hit anything in Black Diamond. Tis the season...
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  8. #8
    I got the velcros
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    Jesus, so that's what $75 gets you.

    The last ride I did at Tokul in December I considered a sort of farewell ride until/if Evergreen can make some headway with Handcock.
    But at that point they were already logging the crap out of the sections around the SVT and up under the power lines...dodging logging trucks on the way up to Flowtron.

    Its just too bad.

  9. #9
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    To be clear, the portion logged most recently along the SVT along the lower part of Tokul East is Weyerhauser land, not Hancock and not part of the "requiring a $75 pass" acreage. It may be the same logging crew/company, but it is not Hancock land.

    Hancock is/was logging up north of Tokul West (north of Upper Outback/Mousetrap/Bon Bon) and preparing for it in many other places. I don' t know if they are doing any logging yet elsewhere, but I didn't see any new stuff in Tokul West last week.

  10. #10
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    FWIW, the zones that have been logged on Galby this year have almost all gotten better. Shhh....don't tell anyone. Granted, clearing through recently harvested zones sucks and, yeah, we get massive turnouts to re-open trails. However, we've used the logging as an excuse to re-route sections that needed it and those efforts have bettered the trail network. The other way to look at it is once the trails are cleared/riding again, you've got a long window of harvest inactivity.

    Harvesting is just the realities of building on a tree farm, IMO....but I'm a half-full kind of guy.

    EB

  11. #11
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    What EB said.

    I get tired of the whole, "well, that sucks, I'll never ride there again" rhetoric. When you're around long enough you see this is just an ebb and flow. And what is being logged out there is such a small portion of the whole that to me, though sucky, just really doesn't bug me that much... Certainly not enough to just write it all off.

    Kind of like writing off Duthie just because a couple trails are closed....

  12. #12
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    From what I've heard, the hop-powered trail-gnomes who maintain TKE are still committed. There's a significant Minefield to navigate, however...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    FWIW, the zones that have been logged on Galby this year have almost all gotten better. Shhh....don't tell anyone. Granted, clearing through recently harvested zones sucks and, yeah, we get massive turnouts to re-open trails. However, we've used the logging as an excuse to re-route sections that needed it and those efforts have bettered the trail network. The other way to look at it is once the trails are cleared/riding again, you've got a long window of harvest inactivity.

    Harvesting is just the realities of building on a tree farm, IMO....but I'm a half-full kind of guy.

    EB
    EB, as you well know given my attention to the Gunrange area, I believe in that too. My concern is the change of tone with the "silent allowance" of trail access, where it's not as it was now. Of course, in reality, I do not mind a fee for guaranteed access. I would hate to put hours upon hours in (as many do!) and find the trails I have built or helped on are simply inaccessible now. I guess my hope is that I'd leave a trail legacy. I know nothing lasts forever, but I was secretly hoping it could.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  14. #14
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    The woods around trails have been logged on and off for years and that's not in any way breaking news, its the pass that most people I've talked to have issues with.

    But now you have to pay and rebuild the trails.

    Feel like you're getting what you're paying for?

  15. #15
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    I guess that's my point as well. I know that Galby isn't a guarantee either, but somehow it feels more secure to put so much effort in. Tokul... not so much anymore.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  16. #16
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    Stupid post. Hadn't had my coffee yet.
    Last edited by BigBill; 02-14-2012 at 08:37 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasai View Post
    I dig Henry's ridge. Last time I was there, it was a little small, so I'll have to check it out again. Honestly, it's been forever since I've hit anything in Black Diamond. Tis the season...
    There is lot's of fun to be had. Talked with a key trail builder the other day about mileage, and he was saying there is probably around 30 miles now on the East side. Lots of really good energy going on out there, and lots of hope and promise for more in the future.
    .~...|\
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  18. #18
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    Sweet. Will get out there again!
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  19. #19
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    Rode Sunday..........Ivan is cut out. KGB is still unrideable.

    Loggers will leave a mess but we can always rebuild.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighitboy View Post
    Rode Sunday..........Ivan is cut out. KGB is still unrideable.

    Loggers will leave a mess but we can always rebuild.
    Ivan is gone???

    I can't imagine they logged the steeps. That was my 'go to' trail with the dogs due to no horses and few riders. What state is it in exactly?
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  21. #21
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    What??? I had no idea they were working that side. Wow.... :
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

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    Hopefully, he meant that the blowdown was "cut out" rather than logged out.

  23. #23
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    I think he means that it's clear of blowdown. Pretty sure that the loggers comment was unrelated to CI. I also believe that CI is in an area that can't be logged, but I could be wrong about that.

  24. #24
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    Based on the size of trees in there (there is zero old growth), can't isn't a word I'd use regarding CI.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  25. #25
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    There is zero old growth in pretty much all of the areas we ride at Tokul. It's all 2nd and 3rd growth.

  26. #26
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    As evidenced by my hike:



    Look at the size of that stump. Lame.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  27. #27
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    Lame how?

    As long as people want to live in wood houses, there'll be a need to harvest. That tree was planted to be harvested.

  28. #28
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    Cut out as in trail is clear to ride. Was in decent shape as well.

    Is Ivan on land they can or will log?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACree View Post
    Lame how?

    As long as people want to live in wood houses, there'll be a need to harvest. That tree was planted to be harvested.
    I'm just pointing out the size of the tree... Seems a little young. Heck, I'm not a forester. Just making my whiny point.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighitboy View Post
    Is Ivan on land they can or will log?
    They "could" log there certainly.... don't know about the "will they" part.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  31. #31
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    Dangit. I hate when I have to agree w/ ACREE. When you clear cut, it's worth it to get erverything marketable. Notice that if they leave any trees, they are the crooked or twisted ones? That said, this doesn't change my view of the Tokuls. I am assuming that the locals will clear the trails again and all will be good in the woods. I'll still ride the crud outta it. Clearcut/schmearcut. It's Western Washington and that's how they roll. It's not like I'm expecting wilderness outside Fall City or anything.

  32. #32
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    Great news from Evergreen Alliance!

    Tokul Update Feb 15, 2012 - Some Good News
    We’re happy to be able to bring some good news! All of our hard work on the Tokul mountain biking access and use issues is paying off. We met yesterday with the fine folks at Hancock Forest Management, and once again they’ve been very open and flexible in working with us.

    We all know that things could have been structured and communicated a little more clearly in the beginning but we believe that Hancock can be a solid long-term partner for mountain biking opportunities on their 96,000 acre Snoqualmie Forest.

    Here’s where things stand currently:

    * Trail Maintenance: They are perfectly willing to allow ongoing trail maintenance on existing trails. That includes bucking out fallen trees or dangerous snags but do NOT cut live trees. Chainsaws are allowed, but during the summer be sure to check for the fire level before bringing them onto the forest. More guidance around this will be provided in the future.

    * New Trail Construction: Currently there is a moratorium on new trail construction. Hancock is open to the idea of new trails, but wants proposed trails to be presented in a plan form that they can approve.

    If you are currently building a trail, or planning on it, please contact us first. Unauthorized building of new trails could harm our efforts and destroy the positive relationship we’re developing with Hancock.

    * Night Riding: Night riding should be approved soon! Since our previous meeting with Hancock they’ve been working with the Department of Fish and Wildlife on our behalf to ensure night riders are not misidentified as poachers. We’ll let you know when you’re good to go. Until then, head over to Tolt for night riding instead.

    * Use Permits: We know there are many questions around permits including cost, and the availability of day use permits. We’re thrilled with Hancock’s efforts to be flexible and work with us to find solutions that are tolerable for everyone. We believe we’ll have a resolution in the next few weeks.

    Stay up to date on what's happening by visiting the Evergreen MTB Tokul Wiki here:
    evergreenmtb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Trail:Tokul_East
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  33. #33
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    Excellent news. Thanks!
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasai View Post
    They "could" log there certainly.... don't know about the "will they" part.
    Probably not. Much of the top of Ivan all the way to the p*mp track skirts or crosses into parcels not owned by Hancock. I'm fairly certain that the steep portion of upper ivan is designated conservation zone. Can't remember whether lower ivan is in the conservation area as well.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Probably not. Much of the top of Ivan all the way to the p*mp track skirts or crosses into parcels not owned by Hancock. I'm fairly certain that the steep portion of upper ivan is designated conservation zone. Can't remember whether lower ivan is in the conservation area as well.
    That's what I used to think, but the conservation easement might have just been for development rights. I'm hoping Evergreen can post up some more concrete info about logging plans now that they're talking directly with Hancock.

    Logging is just part of life when riding on a working forest. The trails can still be fun, just different. We'll have to work harder to manage water, since rain hits harder without the tree canopy. On the upside, we'll get some pretty nice views.

    As others have said, once an area is logged, the trails can go undisturbed for 30 years, so that's another silver lining.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasai View Post
    I'm just pointing out the size of the tree... Seems a little young. Heck, I'm not a forester. Just making my whiny point.
    It's surprising now small a tree can be do be "commercially viable". I was told by an Evergreen member who is a forester that 10" DBH is where they need them. That's 10" diameter at Breast Height, or about 4' off the ground. That's not very big.

    DNR usually goes on 60 year logging cycles, which is a lot longer than private forests. There has been debate on shortening this cycle to cover some budget shortfalls for schools. There's only a few mills left in the state that can handle the larger trees from DNR lands.

    On private land, lowland Douglas Fir forests are often harvested on 30-35 year cycles - though this is completely dependent upon how fast the trees grow. Elevation, rainfall, topography and soil types all play into this.

  37. #37
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    Rode SST at Galbraith post-logging for the first time last Sunday... it was awesome. Not better, not worse, just a totally different ride. Biggest change: I could see the trail way ahead of me and that was schweeeeet!

  38. #38
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    Has the Flotron area been logged yet? Anybody got pictures of it? I was there in early December when it still had trees.

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    very exciting news!

  40. #40
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    I took this picture about 11:00 AM this morning, you can see FT has not been logged. If you look under the wingtip, you can see the powerline where it takes a left, that is where you turn into the single track on the right.


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by juice View Post
    That's what I used to think, but the conservation easement might have just been for development rights. I'm hoping Evergreen can post up some more concrete info about logging plans now that they're talking directly with Hancock.
    I think you're the one I heard it from!

    The potential opportunity to get in after the logging -- whether it's any of the existing trail areas or not -- is huge, though. Still lots of hurdles to jump; but I'm stunned that the outlook is this positive. Nice going EMBA!

  42. #42
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    Nice picture Jim.

    Flowtron cut will be everything you see to the right of the wing tip plus parts that are above the picture. Ivan's is not going to get cut.

  43. #43
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    How solid is the "not cutting Ivan"?

    If so I would help clear KGB no prob!
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  44. #44
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    Umm, sorry BigHitBoy, after looking over the map part of Ivan's is on the cutting plan for 2013, the lower 1/2 I think.

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    I think it's the upper part of Crazy Ivan that is going to be logged in 2013. Even though I haven't been on CI before (I don't do DH) and know where it is only generally, I have seen where the logging is going to happen and it is not in the lower area.

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    Can't wait for new trails!
    Last edited by jharvey; 04-23-2012 at 03:03 PM.

  47. #47
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    Chill on the TKE, please...

    A reminder to everyone that Hancock has asked us to stay clear while the logging operations cleanup is winding down. It looks like there will be a chance to rebuild if we play it cool. EMBA is the point on this, and they will let us know when it's OK to access the area again.

    Also, the pass system is being enforced; just keep that in mind.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    A reminder to everyone that Hancock has asked us to stay clear while the logging operations cleanup is winding down. It looks like there will be a chance to rebuild if we play it cool. EMBA is the point on this, and they will let us know when it's OK to access the area again.

    Also, the pass system is being enforced; just keep that in mind.
    How do they enforce it?

  49. #49
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    Courtesy of Jimba today...

    At least we can still see the trails. That's a good thing. Easier clean up.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tokul East lower area (with pics)-flowtron-2012.jpg  


  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    At least we can still see the trails. That's a good thing. Easier clean up.
    What section are we looking at here? the switchback trail there near center of the pic kinda looks like flowtron but the roads don't match up, I'm lost...

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