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  1. #1
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    TKE logging begins...

    Blatant rumor-mongering since I haven't seen it with my own eyes, but word on the street is that the Tokul East logging has started. Adios, Midtown...you were fun while you lasted...

    [CONFIRMED: talked to someone who just rode it. His quote, "Midtown and Ivan both have cuts on top."]
    Last edited by GeePhroh; 10-25-2013 at 05:42 PM. Reason: confirmed...

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    RIP. What a bummer.

  3. #3
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    Noooo!!!!!
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  4. #4
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    Never rode Midtown. Guess I'll enjoy its reincarnation in a year or so.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  5. #5
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    TKE logging begins...

    Rode it on Wednesday and there was lots of ribbon along the trail, but no signs of logging. Witnessed it for myself today... Just after you drop out on the road for the first time and just past the trail entrance you see this. Then after the little climb in the trail and just as it starts to flatten out you are greeted by this View from above the excavator

    Walked passed the trees fine and trail is rideable shortly then you hit the logged area again just as it gets steep again, bushwhacked around to find the trail lower down. Only really miss the first switchback or 2, but it's a pain to walk around. Should be good to ride tmrw for the last time, I presume they will resume logging this week.

    Will be rough not being able to ride MidTown this winter especially when it freezes. Let's just hope that when it is reincarnated it will fair a little better than flowtron.

  6. #6
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    Bummer. Got one last ride in last Sunday and it revived my love of that trail. The best IMO.

    Can any requests be made to Hancock to be gentle? Fell trees away instead of across, etc. Wishful thinking.

    I guess the upside will be that the future amazing views. Small conciliation.

  7. #7
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    On another more positive note, rode most of TWest yesterday and its in perfect condition. Even Beaver Pond has mostly hardened up except for a couple sections near the bottom.

    Found the trail at the very top above the road at top of Pink Beaver. Never seen that before. Looks like it's been there for a while but a nice addition to our loops.

  8. #8
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    I just back from Tokul East. The top of Midtown is fine, its the 2nd section that had some logging on it. KGB is still intact and so is all of crazy Ivan. Two lumberman were out logging this morning though, dropping trees onto the road that runs up from the bottom of Upper Ivan to the start of lower Ivan. So while you can ride KGB or upper Ivan the entire road at the bottom is blocked. We rode 2/3rd of Ivan and hiked back up since trees were being drop as we were coming down.
    We rode around to the top of lower Ivan and talked with the lumberman and they said they were clearing a path for the logging machine to come in starting tomorrow and they are going to start clearing the trees on and below upper Ivan. So basically after today Crazy Ivan and KGB are pretty much unrideable, and the rest of Midtown will be gone soon too.
    Lower Ivan is totally clear and appears to be out of the logging zone...for now. They said the area that includes Lower Ivan, lower OGDH and Goose Chase will be cleared next fall/winter.
    The trail between the top of Midtown and Crazy Ivan had a 30ft wide cut thru it but it was an easy hike over logs. Kind of pointless to ride though unless you just want to ride the pumptrack thing.

    We also rode Flowtron today and it is in terrible shape. There were a bunch of horse tracks up it and they tore the trail up pretty good. There was also horse crap in a few spots too.

    For now you can ride the top of Midtown, then when you hit the road you can turn right and cut over to Lower Ivan and get a decent run in. All of OGDH was riding well so there is positive new to report!
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  9. #9
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    Lumber trekking today up the logging road from Upper Ivan to Lower Lower ranked somewhere pretty near hell. Still nice to get what might be last last run in, even though I 'still' choked on the big stump jump. Damn that jump!

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    I hit that big stump jump for only the 2nd time today and it scared me. I was carrying some good speed and it felt pretty big. I was on my Stumpjumper so I guess i am required to hit it!
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    I know it is a sad day but the tokul, Galbraith and black diamind models of bike trail builders reclaiming the "way we were" lines and even improving them can hopefully inspire the legendary and dedicated crews.

    If there is any sketchy sawing you could use assistance with I know some people... (pm pls)

  12. #12
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    Glad I got a chance to ride them as they were originall intended. I'll definitely lend my time to getting them back in shape when the logging is done as well, just let us know when.
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  13. #13
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    My concern is if these trails can be sustained after the trees are down. Flowtron is much different and doesn't seem to hold up well without the trees. Can Midtown and Ivan hold up when rebuilt? Is it better to rebuild, or build new trails where there is still tree cover?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    My concern is if these trails can be sustained after the trees are down. Flowtron is much different and doesn't seem to hold up well without the trees. Can Midtown and Ivan hold up when rebuilt? Is it better to rebuild, or build new trails where there is still tree cover?
    Yes it seems unlikely that some of the steepest sections can last a summer without significant ruts developing. Those may need re-routes. The worst pars of Beaver Pond this year were the steep sections and they are not nearly as steep as anything on Mid-town/Ivan.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
    Yes it seems unlikely that some of the steepest sections can last a summer without significant ruts developing. Those may need re-routes. The worst pars of Beaver Pond this year were the steep sections and they are not nearly as steep as anything on Mid-town/Ivan.
    Those trenches on upper Ivan seem to do just fine with trees. Maybe we can toboggan in them once the trees are gone?

  16. #16
    Justin Vander Pol
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    My concern is if these trails can be sustained after the trees are down. Flowtron is much different and doesn't seem to hold up well without the trees. Can Midtown and Ivan hold up when rebuilt? Is it better to rebuild, or build new trails where there is still tree cover?
    You make a good point. The trees hold in moisture in the summer while at the same time mellowing out the rain in the winter. The problem is that pretty much all of the mature forest at Tokul will be logged in the next 5 or 6 years. The trees are ripe. I'd be way more interested in building new trails in the recently cut areas instead of areas that will soon be logged.

    Flowtron will be fine after a year or two, we just never finished rebuilding it. It's very close now, just needs a few more trail work days. Because it's in a gully all the slash fell down onto the trail and was kinda worst case scenario to reopen. It'll get buffed out this winter and will certainly get better over time. It's always loose in the summer, but I think we can easily get it to where it rides nice for 3 seasons. Once the rain hits I think we'll get motivated and post a work party or two.

  17. #17
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    Does Hancock allow you to drive in to do work, or do you have to lug tools in?
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  18. #18
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    Definitely a bummer to be losing these trails (temporarily).

    Personally I’ve cut my losses at TKE (of course I’ll help rebuild, but it’s never gonna be what it once was IMO).
    Most people never rode the original flowtron3000 and forget that it’s actually been rebuilt twice before the clearcut, then again afterwards. The original line was not an option after the clearcut. So I agree, better to build new then to rebuild. That also brings the question, how much coordination is required with the landowners to “rebuild” and existing trail vs. a new line in the same area?

    For many, what originally made tokul east great was having some steeper trails with drops, jumps, flow and yes, even some steep loose gnar DH, all rideable year round. I hope that original flavor can be kept if/when the trails (especially crazy Ivan) are rebuilt. It feels like we are losing that style of riding locally in the name of “sustainable” building.

  19. #19
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    Certain people have gate keys from Hancock and we/they are allowed to drive in to do work using that key. That's how Slop and McCracken got in to do the recent work...

  20. #20
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    Great point! We ride TE because it is like a mini Whistler. One of the few places around you can find steep challenging trails that are ridable year round. It really pushes a 6" trail bike and I love that and we don't really have anything else like it around, that's "legal" anyway. To me TW is like a parking lot carnival compared to the Gnar Disneyland of TE.
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  21. #21
    Justin Vander Pol
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    Trails can be rebuilt. It's brand new trails that require more coordination, a permit, and approval from Hancock, which we're working on. Evergreen is working with King Co DPER (permit agency) to determine the best way to get approval for trails on Hancock land. The current thinking is to slog through a tougher permit process right now so that it's faster and more efficient in the future.

  22. #22
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    That whole forest has been prime for harvest....likely ~60 years old.

    The good thing about them cutting is you get a lot of freedom to adjust routing post-harvest. The bad thing (other than the amount of work) about it is you don't really have a choice or re-routing because without any overhead cover, the trails get super dry and loose in the summer and any steeper trails just get uber rutted and sketchy. There's also a 15 year window where brushing becomes one of the biggest maintenance issues....usually 2x a year.

  23. #23
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    TKE logging begins...

    The brushing on the clear cut trails I did a couple weeks ago took the longest and most effort. I need to go back and do more leaf blowing as there were more waiting to fall from the trees.
    I've made friends with some a local couple that have been riding their horses in Tokul East lower trails for the last +40 years. The Tokul woods were being logged when they first moved there and it's been interesting hearing about their relationship with Weyerhaeuser/Hancock.
    The rest of the woods are ripe for harvest but I am guessing Tokul West may survive logging because they are flatter. Borneo and Slop have had some great new trail ideas in creating trails in areas they'll never log(near water and or wet lands).
    Slop and I share the key/pass...I mostly try to get up there Mon & Fri mornings for trail work. PM me if that fits into anyone's schedule and would like to help.

    Cheers,
    Mike

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    Slight hijack, but there's a big tree down across OGDH now for any sawyers interested

    Sorry for the slight hijack, but just wanted to file it. For any sawyers heading up Tokul W, would be awesome if you could sidle over to East for a little slicing on OGDH too.

    It's about 2'+ in diameter, and on OGDH East (uphill) of the powerline road. Spot marked on map attached.

    Was itchin for some DH on the big bike so rode almost all TKE trails today, and they were otherwise clear and in pretty good shape. (Avoided the sections being logged). Cleared a lot of small downfall, but otherwise super sweet!

    Really enjoyed lower Midtown- hadn't done that one in a while. To me it's like Flowtron's bigger brother - steep with really tight switchies, and some nice canyon super tight half pipe flow to finish. Hope it survives til next winter, as it's really nice through the trees. Such a great trail!
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  25. #25
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    Always wondered, do people just push their DH bikes uphill all day there, or is it even possible to pedal? I see guys with big bikes there and places like Galby, and it always seemed like it would take forever to get to the top if you can't shuttle.
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    TKE logging begins...

    It's not too bad. Sure makes the downs a LOT more fun!

    Sometimes I take the AM bike and ride all the ups, sometimes I take the DH, like today. Got in 5 1/2 laps in a coupla hours, so not too bad. My DH bike is light enough and not too much pedal bob that I was able to pedal maybe 2/3 of the way up most of the laps before I got lazy and walked.

    Standing pedaling uphill does get old fast, but I just try to suck it up and think about all the good exercise I'm getting

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    Thanks, I was just curious. 5 1/2 laps in two hours is pretty good if you ask me!
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    TKE logging begins...

    Yeah, I was pretty fried! Esp after pushing up that really steep horse trail to get to the lower Western road/start of lower Midtown for last run of the day.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarekith View Post
    Always wondered, do people just push their DH bikes uphill all day there, or is it even possible to pedal?
    There are fit DH'ers who can pedal a big bike up faster than many XC riders,
    And there are skilled XC riders who can huck stuff that many on DH bikes wouldn't try.
    In the end, equipment doesn't really matter...

    At least... that's my experience!

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    I've been emailing a couple of the Evergreen sawyers and we are coming up with a plan to take that one blowdown out. Today's storm, now without the wind warning, might bring down some more. Please post here or PM me with any other known blowdowns and we'll take care of them soon(hoping for this weekend if we can sync all our crazy schedules together).

    Cheers,
    Mike

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    I've thought about taking my 180mm bike up there, but there isn't anything at TE that I wont hit on my 150mm bike. I do see a TON of guys on 180+ bikes with fullface helmets though. There are trails fast enough and steep enough where I could see it being alot of fun. I just dont want to haul the big bike up! When I have a 120mm bike I used to bottom out on the G out dips of Flowtron, so having the right bike does help a bit!
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  32. #32
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    Yeah, I was thinking that would be a great place to take a big bike down, just wasn't sure how many laps you could reasonably do. Been debating swapping the Slayer for a a straight up downhill bike lately. Probably won't do it, but fun to think about.
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  33. #33
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    My Enduro Evo is basically a DH bike you can pedal, and I've taken it to Tiger and Duthie and I didn't really like it. Neither are steep enough to warrant that much travel and my trail bike is way more playful and fun. Tiger is usually a 40 minute climb on my Stumpjumper, but it is 60 minutes on the Enduro and I'm beat when I get to the top.

    The Enduro Evo is great at Stevens and Whistler, and I bet it would be a lot of fun at TE since it too is steep and has some good gnar, but I think I'd pass out after climbing back up 3-4 times.

    It would be sweet if someone bought/leased a TE type area, put in a surplus chairlift and gave us some year round lowland terrain to get stupid on!
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  34. #34
    Justin Vander Pol
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    The flip side is that I love riding my hardtail out at TE. It's a shredder AM hardtail with 140mm fork, not some xc whippet. I'm barely slower and can hit everything. Super fun bike out there!

    You see a lot of HTs out at East, especially in the winter. Corners are smooth even on Ivan and MidTown, so it's really ideal HT territory.

  35. #35
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    I rode with a guy who rides a DB Mason. It's a super slack 29er HT and he rips it up out there. It looks like a lot of fun. Wish I had the back to handle it.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbcracken View Post
    I've been emailing a couple of the Evergreen sawyers and we are coming up with a plan to take that one blowdown out.
    PM me with favorite flavor and when you guys are planning to go up for this OGDH tree, and I'll get up there right before to put a little something for you guys under the tree (be sure to look for it before cutting!)

    You sawyers are so fast at clearing things, and don't get enough thanks for haulin big saws up everywhere to keep all our trails sweet.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nsteele View Post
    PM me with favorite flavor and when you guys are planning to go up for this OGDH tree, and I'll get up there right before to put a little something for you guys under the tree (be sure to look for it before cutting!)

    You sawyers are so fast at clearing things, and don't get enough thanks for haulin big saws up everywhere to keep all our trails sweet.

    Any day running the saws and making chips fly is a good day...
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    TKE logging begins...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuzzy View Post
    Any day running the saws and making chips fly is a good day...
    Bingo!

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    TKE logging begins...

    Blowdown on OGDH is all gone. :-) thanks nuzzy.

    TKE logging begins...-imageuploadedbytapatalk1384019529.432683.jpg

    Cheers,
    Mike

  40. #40
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    Speaking of OGDH and logs...On the upper connecting trail that starts at the top of the road (can't remember the name), there's a diagonal log drop about 100 yards downhill from the road crossing with a really sketchy landing. I haven't been able (or ballsy) enough to take it at speed yet which means stop and walkover.

    In August my buddy was riding this trail for the first time (All-mountain Bike). He had just done the drop off the upper section to the road and feeling good. The log drop surprised him as it's kind of a blind entry. He didn't have the speed and tried to roll it. There's a hole right after the log and he did an Endo ejection. Lots of pain rib/back pain for 2 months.

    I'm writing to the "builders" trying to prevent future ejections. Putting a ramp on the back side of the log (wood or dirt) would prevent this easily but leave the drop in place. Or a ride around. Just a suggestion. Thanks.

    Here's the video I was "lucky" to capture.
    <iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/72627708?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbcracken View Post
    Blowdown on OGDH is all gone. :-) thanks nuzzy.


    I hope you test out the new jump later today
    Evil The Following
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  42. #42
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    Thanks Nuzzy!
    Last edited by paleo; 11-11-2013 at 08:32 AM.

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    TKE logging begins...

    Thanks man. Looks like a nice kicker!

  44. #44
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    Was up there Sat. morning. Crazy Ivan was doing well, looks like we are safe from the cutting for now.
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  45. #45
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    Safety heads up!

    Beware of the last booter on upper crazy Ivan! Look before you leap!
    The booter is trail right and runs out onto the old skidder road that climbs up to lower crazy Ivan.

    That skidder road is now a full-blown logging road, with a soft ditch on the uphill side, right across the tranny/run-out of said booter.

    If you hit the booter with any speed it is highly likely you'll end up in the ditch.

  46. #46
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    Sounds fun!

    Anyone check out KGB? is that area still untouched?
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  47. #47
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    Rode Saturday and found a tree on lower OGDH, rider's far right, just above the last two doubles near the exit. It's about 9-12" in diameter. I started sawing and my blade gave out--got the blade out of there so that isn't a hazard. Trails were running great.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lynch View Post
    Sounds fun!

    Anyone check out KGB? is that area still untouched?
    Rode it on Saturday and aside from needing some raking (leaves around the vageen drop are deep!), it's running great! Off the new logging road, look for the deflated mylar balloon that marks the old trail entrance. The push out is totally clear.

  49. #49
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    Nice! Last month I finally hit all the jumps on it and I was hoping to get one more run at it! I really enjoyed the newer gap jump behind the big stump.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lynch View Post
    Nice! Last month I finally hit all the jumps on it and I was hoping to get one more run at it! I really enjoyed the newer gap jump behind the big stump.
    Yep...that thing's butter-smooth right now! The hip-transfer to the case-a-dilla down the trail a bit is good, too...

    It's a little hard to say how much the logging operation might take at this point; but it looks like a good chunk of the trail probably won't be affected. We'll see...

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