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  1. #1
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    Tiger Mountain loop mileage?

    Do any of you happen know the actual mileage (and elevation) for the Tiger Mountain loop?
    -road climb - Summit Trail - PRT - road climb - Fully Rigid - Joy Ride - Timberline

    What about the mileage for:
    Timberline - Joy Ride road climb - Silent Swamp - road - Fully Rigid - Joy Ride - Timberline

    ...and what if you add PRT and Summit Trail to the latter?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteNW View Post
    Do any of you happen know the actual mileage (and elevation) for the Tiger Mountain loop?
    -road climb - Summit Trail - PRT - road climb - Fully Rigid - Joy Ride - Timberline=mi.13

    What about the mileage for:
    Timberline - Joy Ride road climb - Silent Swamp - road - Fully Rigid - Joy Ride - Timberline=9mi.

    ...and what if you add PRT and Summit Trail to the latter?

    Thanks!
    13mi. & 9mi.
    breezy shade

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    13mi. & 9mi.
    Thanks for that.
    Maybe I should GPS or Strava or something...

  4. #4
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    Real men include iverson

  5. #5
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    Real men are ok with skipping Iverson.

  6. #6
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    In a few weeks the tiger loop will work out to something like 18-19 miles and 3500 feet of climbing. That's omitting Iverson.

  7. #7
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    Hmmm. Up to the summit, down East Tiger Summit to Preston, road back to summit (or East Summit crossing), down to Off the Grid, down Off the Grid to Fully Rigid, out Silent Swamp, back up to Fully Rigid on the Connector Road, down Fully Rigid/Joyride and out NW Timber?

    I'm ok with skipping going down Preston RR, but maybe going up it instead is worthwhile.

  8. #8
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    Oh you'll need PRT but only to PBR. Besides it'll be more fun.

  9. #9
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    Is PBR open? Last work party/shuttle that was the one that I worked on. I want to go see my rock. Slim

  10. #10
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    Iverson is highly underrated, especially the switchback part. I agree with nickn need to do PRT.

  11. #11
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    Very close to being done, Slim. Your rock is still in its humble angle of repose and I've made use of it once or twice while building up there.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickn View Post
    Very close to being done, Slim. Your rock is still in its humble angle of repose and I've made use of it once or twice while building up there.
    Thanks for the information my friend. You have made my day. I really liked sitting there looking at the view through the trees. Slim

  13. #13
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    Indeed. Best trail out there, by far.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery View Post
    Iverson is highly underrated, especially the switchback part. I agree with nickn need to do PRT.

  14. #14
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    Added rough mileage to the 2014 trail map:

    Tiger Mountain loop mileage?-tiger2014withmileage.jpg

  15. #15
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    Up the road, down ETS, Preston, up the road to FR, then down SS, back up the road to FR, down FR/JR and out NWT was 17.6 miles, 3200' of fun, fun, fun.

    Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Tiger near United States | Times and Records | Strava

    Need to man up and add Iverson the next time.

  16. #16
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    Continuing up Crossover to ETS doubles the fun (not the distance).

  17. #17
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    Where is Off The Grid going to run? I haven't seen that on any of the maps yet. Slim

  18. #18
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    Slim, can't put it on the maps until it's officially open later this summer. But it will peel off of ETS after the road crossing and head all the way down to the top of Fully Rigid. An alternative to Preston.

  19. #19
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    2014 is going to be a very good year on Tiger for trails. We might even make Borneo happy. Somehow.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwestra2 View Post
    Slim, can't put it on the maps until it's officially open later this summer. But it will peel off of ETS after the road crossing and head all the way down to the top of Fully Rigid. An alternative to Preston.
    T minus three weeks

    also did anyone read the press release this spring that said Tiger will be over 25 miles of trails when the system is fully done in a few years? This does not include any road connections. It will take a big ride up there to do them all when the planned trails up there are done. I'm guessing 40 miles and 9000K+ vert of very dynamic riding!
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwestra2 View Post
    Slim, can't put it on the maps until it's officially open later this summer. But it will peel off of ETS after the road crossing and head all the way down to the top of Fully Rigid. An alternative to Preston.
    Looking at the topo map it looks like it could have some real nice down hill flow. Although I rode Preston this morning before work, thanks NickN, and it would be a shame to let all that nice work done to Preston go to waste. Sweet Job there guys who ever did it. It will be interesting to see how it stands the wet season. Slim

  22. #22
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    Oh, I'm pretty sure the new work will hold up just fine in the wet. Glad you liked the option.

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    I'm such a slacker. I really need to get out there. I'm almost ashamed of myself for not having ridden it, and swore that this would be the year (summer is slipping by oh so quickly).

  24. #24
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    Climb Preston, descend the new thing.

    I'd much rather climb Preston than Crossover. I've done both. Crossover is pretty heinous.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  25. #25
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    I hadn't done crossover in a few years, and it really wasn't as bad as I remembered. With ETS trail it makes a great loop since there's no elevation loss on the road to get back to Preston (it used to be up crossover, down road to preston trail). Here's a fun 3h loop I like when I'm in the mood for a bigger Tiger ride.

    strava link

  26. #26
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    Crossover Trail? Where is that one? I haven't seen that. Slim

  27. #27
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    Crossover is not a trail, it's a road.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodway View Post
    Crossover is not a trail, it's a road.
    Is that the road from the bottom of Preston to NW Timber or the road up to Fully Rigid? I am new at this so I ask a bunch of questions. I thank you all for your patience. Slim

  29. #29
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    In the rest of the world they call it a trail, but we have high standards in the pnw. A road is a road!

    It used to have quarry spalls, but now it's relatively smooth and not a bad way to get up.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimL View Post
    Is that the road from the bottom of Preston to NW Timber or the road up to Fully Rigid? I am new at this so I ask a bunch of questions. I thank you all for your patience. Slim
    the road up to Fully Rigid...and Beyond!!!
    breezy shade

  31. #31
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    I haven't ridden it in a while. I remember the death cookies and the ridiculous grade.

    Yes, Crossover's the one that parallels Preston. It might change name for the section that goes to NW Timber, but that's what you're on riding to the top of Fully Rigid. If you kept going, you'd end up at the Summit.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  32. #32
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    Crossover road is so F'd right now, so much lose big gravel. Trail crew work trucks do a number on it all week. Go back up Preston if your trying to get back to the top.

    The Eastside road is the one from Preston to Timber which is a pointless rd for MTBing now that the new trails are in!!!
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  33. #33
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    The stoke meter just climbed a couple notches tonight. But very few are finding the "hidden" jem and seeing the signs.......

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickn View Post
    The stoke meter just climbed a couple notches tonight. But very few are finding the "hidden" jem and seeing the signs.......
    Now Nick, don't give away all the good secrets. Although the signs weren't even up when I was there. Passed the Sign Placer coming up as I was going down.
    Slim

  35. #35
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    Awesome work on PBR! Really fun! Although it leaves off some fun from Preston it leaves enough gas in the tank for us mortals to hit Silent Swamp and come back up to Fully Rigid again. 16 miles/2900' with roads going to the Summit, ETS, PRT, PBR, FR, SS, FR, JR, NWT. woot-woot!

    Talked to at least a dozen folks at the summit about all the good stuff going on at Tiger. A few who had no idea of the stuff coming along the I-90 corridor. Told folks about the new trail guide as some mentioned looking for maps, so the stoke is spreading.

    OTG sounds like it's going to be a blast as well.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasperilio View Post
    Awesome work on PBR! Really fun! Although it leaves off some fun from Preston it leaves enough gas in the tank for us mortals to hit Silent Swamp and come back up to Fully Rigid again. 16 miles/2900' with roads going to the Summit, ETS, PRT, PBR, FR, SS, FR, JR, NWT. woot-woot!
    So happy to hear someone is riding things the right way!

    But I think doing NWT to JR via upper cut in, to SS, then up Preston part way up to, PBR, Crossover to ETS, then all the way to bottom of Preston to hit the rd, to FR, JR and NWT with a little Iverson happy ending is the mans, man route right now.
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  37. #37
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    Yea, that would put some hair on your chest. After riding in the truck with Katie up Crossover I haven't exactly been jumping to try that. That's steep.

    Heard chainsaws and then saw Peter P. coming down. Is he working on the climbing trail or something else?

  38. #38
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    My next task is to build an up trail from the corner where the steep crap starts. It will be on the downhill side of the rd. Once that is done then it will be a great route!! It's will be ready at the begging of next "season".

    I'll be doing a mega Tiger ride is Sept that hits all the trails! Once OTG is open thing will get extra crazy up there for man size loops.
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  39. #39
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    Today we rode ETS-PRT-PBR-FR-SS-Crossover-FR-JR-NWT.
    My bike computer had that route at about 16 miles. Next time Im thinking of doing all of PRT, crossover to FR-SS, then up Preston to PBR, and then continue that the FR-JR-NWT.
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasperilio View Post
    Heard chainsaws and then saw Peter P. coming down. Is he working on the climbing trail or something else?






    So many good things on the horizon...
    Evil The Following
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  41. #41
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    My riding partner had an ACL rebuilt recently and is still not 100%. We're both new to riding in the area & wondering with current conditions what would be the most non technical route to the summit? We're thinking about doing Main Tiger Mt Road Climb since it sounds like Crossover is in bad shape. We're looking forward to trying the new trails on the way down!

  42. #42
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    That would be the road to the summit. 4 mile climb, some of it pretty steep and could be hard on a knee, but also walk-able.

    If you go to the summit and do the regular route your looking at a 13 mile ride, so be sure he's ready for that. You could also stay low and get a 10 miles ride in with less climbing and hit all of the new stuff.

    The next post in this thread from mwestra2 has a map with mileage.

    If the weather doesn't get worse we'll be out there tonight at 5:30.
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  43. #43
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    The main road climb to the summit is in pretty good shape. The Crossover road from Preston to Fully Rigid was fine too.

    All trails were in great shape Sunday, with less dust than I expected. The rain we just got should help and I bet the trails are running really nice now.
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

  44. #44
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    No love for riding up Fully Rigid ?

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    No love for riding up Fully Rigid ?
    Given what I've seen expert riders do on a bike, I've stopped saying "that can't be possible", but has anyone cleaned this trail in an uphill direction? Seems like there are a couple spots that would be tough for anyone - that V shaped tree not much before the bottom for example. There's no space to gain momentum, and there's no room left to right to try to swing through it somehow.

  47. #47
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    I personally think Fully Rigid should be a one way trail, atleast on weekends. It has tight technical spots that are totally blind and nearly impossible to stop or pull over on.

    I've ridden up Fully Rigid (with lights on a Wednesday night) and thought it was a fun challenge, but with the traffic Tiger gets on a nice day it seems like it would be asking for trouble.
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

  48. #48
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    I like how you are all excited about a new trail labeled "bail out" that effectively eliminates singletrack from your ride.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by trees4me View Post
    I like how you are all excited about a new trail labeled "bail out" that effectively eliminates singletrack from your ride.
    Sure it removes some mileage, but not much. It does eliminate additional road mileage. For some that's more of a win. Or if doing the lower loop, PBR actually adds single track. Either way there's an option for those that want it. See it that way rather than as a negative.

  50. #50
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    I look at it as a way to ADD singletrack mileage. Just give more "loop" options!
    Down Preston, up crossover to Fully Rigid, down Silent Swamp, up Preston to PBR, then back to Fully Rigid-Joy Ride- NWT.

    Or NWT-JR-SS-lower Preston-PBR-FR-JR-NWT if you want to stay at lower elevation.
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

  51. #51
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    Nothing lost, lots more options.

    Also, as someone who has been sweeping on the Tiger Tues rides with a lot of new folks (to Tiger and Mtn Biking), it does give a bail-out to those who may be over their heads, running out of daylight, etc.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by trees4me View Post
    I like how you are all excited about a new trail labeled "bail out" that effectively eliminates singletrack from your ride.
    It's great news to me!

    Personally I'd like to see lower preston closed completely, or relegated to a climbing-only trail option. I'd rather see Evergreens resources focused on building new trails, rather than trying to fix an existing railroad grade with it's inherent routing and drainage issues. There's just nothing about riding straight down a flat stream bed that I find enjoyable, personally.

    That's just my opinion and I totally get Evergreens existing commitment to the DNR, and that some folks actually enjoy getting the chamois wet and their teeth rattled out. Have at it!

    Most importantly- big thanks to evergreen and everyone whose helped make PBR happen ! More options are great for everyone!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    It's great news to me!

    Personally I'd like to see lower preston closed completely, or relegated to a climbing-only trail option. I'd rather see Evergreens resources focused on building new trails, rather than trying to fix an existing railroad grade with it's inherent routing and drainage issues. There's just nothing about riding straight down a flat stream bed that I find enjoyable, personally.

    That's just my opinion and I totally get Evergreens existing commitment to the DNR, and that some folks actually enjoy getting the chamois wet and their teeth rattled out. Have at it!

    Most importantly- big thanks to evergreen and everyone whose helped make PBR happen ! More options are great for everyone!

    You're definitely in the majority. Everyone now seems to want to ride a smooth manicured flow trail on a 6" bike. Oh and throw in a couple rocks to make it feel like a "trail" experience.

    As someone who has ridden preston since the 80s, I do not enjoy a lot of the new re-routes and fixes that have dumbed down preston. I understand that evergreen needs to do drainage fixes to satisfy DNR and the increased ridership, and that progress is inevitable. However, I still enjoy PRT over any of the other trails at Tiger, and don't see being spit out to crossover road early as a benefit. If you want more low options without climbing to the top, then I guess it's good. I drive out to Tiger when I can to get some actual climbing in, since that's the closest ride with real climbing. New low loop options aren't that exciting.

    SS/JR is great because it eliminates a road portion of the old "standard" loop. The summit trail is a wonderful extension to PRT. Those are natural and thoughtful additions to the Tiger trail system. This bail out bs is only useful when lower PRT is closed for maintenance IMHO.

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    I'd rather build right than build again (was that part of Preston not among the first things "fixed" up there in this latest trail-building push?), but I'll gladly ride anything you got over that part. The excavator trail was more fun than the last part of Preston...aside from the name, PBR is great on all levels.

    I will definitely ride Silent Swamp more often now that it doesn't require me climbing that road up to FR twice--1.3 times is worth it!

  55. #55
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    While I wasnít riding Tiger Mountain during the Reagan-era, now that Preston isnít the bulk of what youíre riding Iím no longer a hater.

    In my view, and others in this thread, PBR brings SS into play and saves you a lot of time if youíre going for a second top lap.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by trees4me View Post
    I like how you are all excited about a new trail labeled "bail out" that effectively eliminates singletrack from your ride.
    I will forsake the last bit of Preston for the .7 of mile of double track up to Fully Rigid. That way I don't have to ride down to Northwest Timber on the double track and get to do Fully Rigid and Joy Ride down to NW Timber. That is a win for me.

    Riding it on Tuesdays and Thursdays before my 2 PM swing shift really makes it a lot less crowded for me. One of these days I am going to have to try at least riding up Joy Ride. I think it would be fun to lollipop NW Timber to Joy Ride, Silent Swamp, up the bottom part of Preston, PBR, Fully Rigid, Joy Ride and out NW Timber.

    And more options coming. Keep up the good work. Slim

  57. #57
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    My final comment on PBR and the turn of trail design this thread is taking, good or bad, and frankly any new trail we put on Tiger. Any time a trail opens up, the majority of riders are excited for the increased single track opportunity on this mountain. There is a vocal minority that always claim what we just built isn't old-school enough and that the trails are getting dumbed down. I've only been riding in the Northwest since the second Clinton term.

    I can speak from experience that we builders aren't dumbing down the existing trails with modifications for drainage and minor routing to force riders over roots and rocks and actually maneuver their bike rather than run a straight line. Quite the opposite actually, and I've heard the complaints first hand that we're forcing people to maneuver their bike on Preston and they don't like that.

    Now for the new trails. Yes, some are flow, and yes some feel excessively smooth. Smoothness comes from it being a new trail. With enough riding and exposure to the elements, these trails will take on their own character and become more technical. For some of these new trails we build in the technical features from the get go, because otherwise we'd have a buff ribbon of single track that would quickly lose its appeal or we find some rocks/roots that are just too good to not include. I personally have watched a number of riders: old-school, new school, too cool for school walk many of these features or just generally not handle them well on their bikes. The good thing though is that people come back for the challenge and eventually get better, or they go find a different trail if their skills aren't there yet. Either is ok.

    Now for PBR. Yes, it does offer an alternate to the bottom of Preston. Portions of which are either to your liking or not, but in the end it's another .4 miles of trail on the mountain that we didn't have before and more trail really isn't a bad thing. PBR will become increasing more technical as it gets ridden and gets a season of moisture on it. That machine built top and is going to become rooty, folks, and the hand built section will take on a more primitive feel as well, the berms will remain just damn cool regardless. This trail is an experiment in some building techniques we're toying with to get to more natural technical trails with less work while still using smart building fundamentals that meet the requirements of the land manager.

    I can go into all sorts of gory detail on this project and if you really want to know more hit me up in PM or come ride with me and I'll point out things.

    For sure, the plans for Tiger are impressive in terms of mountain bike trails. Evergreen can definitely use more people coming out to help build and through that you'll learn some of our constraints both from a management standpoint and terrain--I'm convinced the mountain is hollow and filled with water.

    Cheers. Now how about we just go ride some sweet local trails and rally behind having the opportunity of doing so close to where we live?

  58. #58
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    I think a lot of Preston has been getting better. I like that it's less muddy.

    Actually, I really like the work happening on Tiger in general. I think the Summit trail adds some fun variety and blends nicely into Preston. I like Joy Ride and Silent Swamp. I like Fully Rigid. Though I haven't had the testicular fortitude to try to climb it yet.

    As far as PBR, I dunno. I haven't tried it yet.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    I think a lot of Preston has been getting better. I like that it's less muddy.

    Actually, I really like the work happening on Tiger in general. I think the Summit trail adds some fun variety and blends nicely into Preston. I like Joy Ride and Silent Swamp. I like Fully Rigid. Though I haven't had the testicular fortitude to try to climb it yet.
    Count me in with this crowd. I don't know what school I am in but I am OK with walking a feature. I have already spent 6 weeks off my bike this year when I screwed up a jump and I don't want to spend any more. I really didn't think I was going to like Tiger after my first walk up to the Summit but it is growing on me. Specially after working on PBR. So yeah I am good with that.

    Well said NickN. Joy Ride is losing some of the dirt around the rocks and so it seems to me that it is a little more technical already. But that is just me.

    Slim

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    So you nay saying ninny, First off the more you rabble about this or that the more I will build of this your that, cuz drinking beer and laughing at your single minded rants is fun for me. That said, I get the want for primitive trails. I love them myself but you just can't have that stuff with 80,000 tire tracks a year on them and growing rapidly.

    Tiger has been closed 6 months out of the year because it rains 150"+ a year up there. We are building the new trails and updating the existing ones to handle an extend season or maybe eliminate a season and let the snow close stuff.

    On that note PBR (Preston Bailout Radness) was put in on that corner because in the spring the top part of that trail is under snow and you can't get on Preston until the top is free of snow. Now you can get in there when the top is snowy. Booom your narrow mind blown some? May this will do it, One day in Feb on a nice cold sunny day you could ride the lower parts of the mtn and get some real climbing in during winter instead of riding those flat spaghetti loops in the low lands. "Whaaat, no way, I never thought of that", face melting I know.


    Thanks for the nice comments from everyone who is enjoying the new stuff!

    people be hide keyboards don't build trails, people in the woods with beers do
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  61. #61
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    I simply fail to see how more trail mileage can, in any way, be construed as a bad thing, but oh well.

    I will say, I am stoked at the possibility of Tiger being partially open year round! This is a little production my friend put together of a snow day we took this past winter; starts with a roughed in PBR and then goes to Joy Ride before ending with some quick work on NWT. Winter stoke FTW!



    Evil The Following
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  62. #62
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    tiger mountain rules!

    I live in Seattle. I can drive 36 minutes and start riding a pretty damn rigorous climb, dip into the woods for one of the best trails in the state (Summit trail is SO GOOD--always!), get tripped out on the weirdness and history of Preston, and then do some swoops around those new trails. Follow it up with meeting a bunch of little doggies with their phone-user-confused-hiker-owners on the race back to the car on NWT?

    Awesome.

    It's great. I don't know of any bang-for-buck trails this close to a city this good. Are there? (dont answer--it's one of those rhetorical ones) I'll even throw in Iverson as a plus, even though I'm just not into it.

    Tiger Mountain rules.

    And THIS: "people be hide keyboards don't build trails, people in the woods with beers do"

    remember Evergreen allows me to donate money. Money to pay for people to build trails (you can even skim a little off the top for the beer, I'm cool with that necessary equipment). So, some people are building without ever picking up a shovel.

    Which is also a nice development in mountain biking.

    Man, I love the Summit Trail.

    Is the Summit Trail included in these "don't dumb the trails down" rants? Because there was nothing there before. . . so that's weird.

    Take a couple of cranks and all these trails smarten right up too. All of them.

    whatever.

    We all age. How we deal with it determines whether we become old. Some dudes are just born old.

  63. #63
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    I'm hoping for some snow rides at Tiger this winter. I picked up a fatbike eariler this year and the thought on riding anything at Tiger in the snow is pretty exciting!
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuzzy View Post
    I simply fail to see how more trail mileage can, in any way, be construed as a bad thing, but oh well.
    Ditto. That's really looking hard to find something to complain about.

    PBR advantages:
    • More winter riding options
    • More summer riding options
    • A shorter way down from the summit if you're looking for a shorter ride
    • A new way to make loops and laps if you're looking for a longer ride
    • As new trails are added to the map, more value to the bail-out will become apparent -- stay tuned


    PBR disadvantages:
    Last edited by mwestra2; 08-14-2014 at 04:24 PM. Reason: way too silly!

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    I love it when an active thread comes together.

  66. #66
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    Nuzzy, thank you so much for the edit. That was way too cool. You tell your friend that I think he has artist's eyes for seeing those things that special way. Loved it.

    A-Man, roger that on the donation thing. Time is precious don't I know and I am also of the opinion that giving money is giving more trails. Not a drinker myself but me too, I am OK with them buying some beer. Me, I think being an adult was the silliest thing I have ever done so I just want to be a kid. Responsible, but a kid nonetheless.

    Mr Westra, I sure don't want you to be grumpy so let's build more trails.
    Slim

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by a-man View Post
    remember Evergreen allows me to donate money. Money to pay for people to build trails (you can even skim a little off the top for the beer, I'm cool with that necessary equipment). So, some people are building without ever picking up a shovel.
    I think that this is an unfortunate misunderstanding.

    Money donated to EMBA (as well as the IMBA) goes to so much more than trail-building. It goes to advocacy, administration, teeny little paychecks for a really hard-working group of people...

    Don't mistake your money for trails.

    Maybe someone like mwestra2 or mtbty would like to speak to the specifics here, because I don't know them: but trails are built with volunteer hours (hopefully you know what the word "volunteer" means).

    The only way trails get built, is if you and I build them. The money you donate makes sure that they are legal and protected (hopefully you know what the word "advocacy" means).

    You should try donating one day every quarter to volunteering. That is one day every three months. That is easy. It feels good. It's fun. it's the only way trails happen.

  68. #68
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    I'm not very good at explaining Evergreen finances succinctly so I'll see if I can get Glenn or BryanR to chime in here. I'll say a few things though...

    Volunteers and donations are both vital to Evergreen's mission of creating and protecting riding opportunities in WA and we are so lucky to have such an awesome community that contributes in so many different ways! We can't thank you enough!!

    And volunteering is so much more than getting the work done...
    • Grant funding is often awarded as we log volunteer hours (via those annoying sign-in sheets ).
    • Corporations often match volunteer hours -- submitting a form could result in a significant $/hr match to Evergreen.
    • Past volunteer contributions and future volunteer hour commitments play a huge role in winning future grants.
    • Most importantly, volunteering builds community! IMHO, if we had put a fence around Duthie before construction began, built all the trails and features using contractors exactly as it is today, then opened it up to riders, it wouldn't be nearly as popular. It's all about the thousands of volunteers who got to help out, have a say, have an impact, ride what they built, watch the place grow and change over the years and play a vital part in building the park.


    So when you give an hour of your time on a trail, you're actually giving 100X that in value to mt biking.

  69. #69
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    Thanks for chiming in. Slim
    Last edited by SlimL; 08-14-2014 at 05:41 PM. Reason: to un-post messages

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by a-man View Post

    And THIS: "people be hide keyboards don't build trails, people in the woods with beers do"

    remember Evergreen allows me to donate money. Money to pay for people to build trails (you can even skim a little off the top for the beer, I'm cool with that necessary equipment). So, some people are building without ever picking up a shovel.
    Lets call that picking up a pen! Which is cool and thanks. It's the next best thing to spending time in the wood be hide a shovel and I get that give money is the only thing in the cards for some people.

    The keyboard thing really pertains to these kind of forums that are 100% pointless in making a trail tangible for the world to enjoy. But writing to government agencies when the planning process are happen is a good use of a keyboard and your time be hide it.


    Also, the crossover road got graded today, so that will help make that ride a little better back up to the top.
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  71. #71
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    Tiger Mountain loop mileage?

    My new favorite after work loop:

    NTT>up JR bottom bit>up steep ass road>duck in maintenance access>up rest of upper JR>north on SS (the funnerest way) >up Preston> down PBR/BO>Up last bit of cutover road> down FR>JR>NTT.

    Was awesome, awesome, awesome tonight! Rocks and roots a little greasy uphill, but awesome nonetheless!

    Thanks to Mike, Tyler, Sam from DNR and all who helped approve, design and build the new Bail Out trail. It's pretty fun. Short, not very technical with a little gnar but also big bermy switchbacks, and a little bit steeper than anything else on Tiger (so far). It's great to have options... and even better to have so much new trail to ride.

    Cheers and two thumbs up!

  72. #72
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    Word... rode PBR tonight and it was super fun!

    Everything else was in awesome shape, like NickN said, the new trails are getting more technical after some use- but also faster! win/win!

    Awesome loop Nsteele... gonna have to try that.

  73. #73
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    Tiger sort of takes on it's own weather pattern. No place else near Seattle gets the hype and the recommendation from shops and other riders to ride there. Whether you are local and learning or an out of towner wanting to fit in a "Seattle riding experience". And, that in it's own sense is pretty cool. Seasoned riders like what they like and the nu skool kids have the new standard. I personally think the new connector is brilliant. options=good. Shocking? Yes... The name? Stoopid. But, I digress.
    It's not news to say it's not my favorite for a myriad of reasons (and, I have put a lot of days in there working and leading parties over the years...) but I get it's appeal for the lemmings. (Say that only sort of jokingly...) But, Tiger seems like that mid-way location to me. Not quite St. Eds or Duthie but not Hansen Ridge or Middle Fork. And, that's where people have a problem in the end from a design and experience perspective. Is it "backcountry, real "mountain" biking"? Or, just an extension of the lowland areas which are expected to be just some place to kill an hour or two? I've asked a few folks as of late whether they are expecting "Duthie in the woods" or more of a "Iverson" backcountry experience and the responses have been interesting and across the board.
    Good thing is with the trail plan getting approved and the new trails coming up, riders should be able to get more dispersed (less traffic per mile) and some different flavors of trail can be built to appeal more widely across the spectrum. Annoyed by every turn "having" to have a berm for example? Don't ride those trails... problem solved. Tyler and Mike are right in that Evergreen is in this for the long haul now and the main builders are always learning what works and what doesn't. Trail building is an ever evolving thing. A balance between sustainability and maximum enjoyment for the most riders. The good news is that unlike local user built stuff, there will be an active presence to adjust and maintain these trails going forward should the initial vision just not work for the masses. Keep it up guys. (Thumbs up!)

  74. #74
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    Rode PBR for a shorter loop today (and mostly to check it out), and I loved it! Favorite most hand-built/natural feeling trail out there in my opinion. Didn't feel machine built, felt tighter, and steeper than most things out there, and I reaaaaallly like it.

    Back to the preston dumb-down argument: I first rode tiger about 12 years ago. If ANYTHING, this trail has become rougher, and in my opinion more techy from all of the hard work people have put in to make the trail drain. I think they have absolutely maintained the character of the trail, while increasing it's durability.

    All trails in our region evolve over time- some get easier, some get techier as they age, some go back to nature. It is what it is.

    To sum up my rant- I am still pinching myself over what is happening on Tiger. It is SO incredible to see what Evergreen and all of the volunteers have made happen- what a fantastic group!

  75. #75
    FM
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    Well said! Totally agree!

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    Road to summit was a bit much for the riding partner, we got about 1/3rd the way up before turning around, think I saw you guys from the group ride on Tuesday. So decided to go back alone on Friday after work and got the road climb to summit done. Thats a great climb! And the summit trail is really fun! Thanks again to all the trail builders.

    Last edited by AlpineNate; 08-20-2014 at 11:11 AM.

  77. #77
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    Did PBR followed by FR, SS, FR, JR, NWT. What a addition PBR is both in options and as a trail. We commented at the bottom how well planned it was, flowy but primitive, all the short climbs seemed to reward keeping the wheels moving as they were preceded by roll in's, technically challenging, and over all just fun. NICE!

    We also noticed how it broke up the system into 4 distinct sections. I would always be fatigued by the third switchback of Preston but now it's upper Summit, Lower Summit, Upper Preston, PBR. All a little different but a great combination. Thanks

    Looking forward to OTG!

  78. #78
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    Rode tiger today. Trails are in primo shape. Tacky but firm!
    Rode all of Preston today and that section after the PBR entrance needs some love! Im definitely going to get in on making that happen. No running water, just lots of wear and big rocks all over. Still good times though!
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

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    Where is PBR? I'd love to ride the bigger loop going in on NWT and having the opportunity to skip the PRT descent.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteNW View Post
    Where is PBR? I'd love to ride the bigger loop going in on NWT and having the opportunity to skip the PRT descent.
    PBR is off the 3rd switchback on PRT.

    http://trails.evergreenmtb.org/trail...rail_pdf&id=18

    http://trails.evergreenmtb.org/image...summer2014.jpg

  81. #81
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    Those links didn't work for me for some reason... trying again... Updated maps here:

    http://trails.evergreenmtb.org/image...summer2014.jpg

    http://trails.evergreenmtb.org/trail...rail_pdf&id=18

    PBR (Preston Bailout Reroute or Preston Bailout Radness) is labeled "Bail Out" on the map. Last I heard, that's going to be the "official" name.

  82. #82
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    Posted formal looking signs seen last night simply state, "Bail Out Trail". Heard from one rider (not me) at the bridge at the bottom... "I like Preston better." Can't please everyone.... Great option for more possible routes though.

  83. #83
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    Even DNR was calling it PBR during the build, but maybe more in reference to where I was at when up there with tools. The rider community can continue to call it PBR despite the official signs. Besides, once this sign, currently locked in a DNR truck, goes up at the top, it'll placate us all. Cheers, and I'm glad you all are liking the trail, it was a fun build and offered a lot of opportunity for reflection. Now onto the next projects. Tiger Mountain loop mileage?-pbr.jpg

  84. #84
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    That sign is LEGEND!

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickn View Post
    Now onto the next projects.
    This one perhaps...

    Evergreen and DNR Announce Partnership for New Trail on East Tiger Mountain

    Awesome sign!!!!! Thanks Nick. Maybe we'll be allowed to put an "aka PBR" on our map

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwestra2 View Post
    Oh yes. Already started some rock work in there.

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    Hope it is very CBC or Fromme "esque" when complete. Love that stuff.

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    Going to throw another kink in your chain soon on figuring out what loops work well for you.

    Some people maybe making two trips to the top while others may totally chancing the way the ride Tiger all together.
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  89. #89
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    bring on OTG! It should be worth a climb backup!
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

  90. #90
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    OTG is worth the climb either as a first time or second. Finally, we're getting a real mountain with options to ride. When OTG is finished, please be sure to give the DNR the props as it's mostly their production with a little help here and there.

  91. #91
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    I cant wait for a summit-preston run followed by a OTG-FR-SS run followed by a fr-jr-nwt-pass out at car day!
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

  92. #92
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    You lost me at Iverson...
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

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    Knowing what I know, I would do Iverson, ETS, Preston, PBR, FR, SS, up Preston-PBR up cross-over (CO) or just straight up CO to OTG or even all the way to Upper ETS down to OTG, FR, JR, NWT.

    edit: IF I had the legs for it, which I don't, but something to work for. I like Iverson once in awhile.

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    is there a pic of what's planned to complete before tiger season ends? I have no idea where OTG is going to start when it opens. Also, any plans for a climbing trail to the Summit so we don't have to always ride the road (or up preston).

    Also, I totally missed the entrance to PBR yesterday. Is it well marked? Granted, the sun had already set, but I thought I would see it.

    -joel

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    DNR is busting their butts this week to get OTG open ASAP. They have the new maps ready to go when it does and will post online.

    The next phases calls for another descending trail from the steep part of the cross-over trail to the parking lot (trail blazing starts Sept 6th at a Platypus sponsored work party - Evergreen MTB Calendar)

    A climbing trail is also in the works. The upper section of the climbing trail will be built first.

    PBR is on the 3rd switchback, instead of turning, just look straight ahead through the start of the turn. The sign is 20' in. Tiger Mountain loop mileage?-tigernewsummer2014.jpg

  96. #96
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    So many more lines coming to that map in the next couple years.

  97. #97
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    Such a great time for Tiger! It seems like all this started 20 years ago (I remember talks of potential new trails in the 90s) and it is really exciting to see it all happening.

    One thing that would REALLY open the area up is if there was a connector that followed the ridgeline from roughly mid-OTG to the PBR/Preston intersection. It would probably give too many options though and peoples heads might explode!
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

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    @joel, it's not on the above map, but if I recall correctly, OTG starts from where the summit trail crosses the road, and roughly parallels the crossover road (north of it) down to about where about where fully rigid starts.

    @kasperilio where abouts is the climbing trail going to go? That sounds interesting.

  99. #99
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    Where's the Starbucks going? With the amount of riders Tiger gets I figured the would be in the plans too!
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery View Post
    @joel, it's not on the above map, but if I recall correctly, OTG starts from where the summit trail crosses the road, and roughly parallels the crossover road (north of it) down to about where about where fully rigid starts.

    @kasperilio where abouts is the climbing trail going to go? That sounds interesting.
    The upper part of the climbing trail will be between OTG and the road.

    The lower section will peel off of NWT, but I don't know it's route. And I've heard of at least three more trails they're trying to get funding for.

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