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  1. #1
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    T-East mayhem: Part Deux

    I hate loooong threads so I thought I'd start a new one. Another thing to consider is the exits out on to the SVT. Most trails have very quick exits and while it is really funny to see a skid mark going out of Lower Ivan and right across the SVT into the woods on the other side, it's not very positive for the other trail users. Please refrain from hauling out on to the SVT. I gather the "improvements" to lower OGDH encourage that which worries me a little.

    Remember, we're not the only users out there and complaints to Hancock and King County don't do us any good when we're also trying to build good rapport with them at the same time.

  2. #2
    Justin Vander Pol
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    Yeah, we've been told by Hancock that a few things need to be considered. I'll try to get in contact with all the builders in person, but exits are one area where we need to make some improvements. There's a couple other things that I can go over with builders in person 'cause the internet sux and I don't want to do it here.

    The future is really bright out there! But we also need to be careful about how we do things. I'm truly happy about how cool Hancock is being right now, and we if work with them well there's potential for some very good improvements to the area.

    If you build out there, or want to build out there, please contact me. I'm already talking to most of the builders, and we're all on board with this. Any new building without going through Hancock will make it really hard for all the other builders and could bring the awesome current progress to a grinding halt. Like a front-tire blowout off a hip kind of halt. If we all work together on this, we'll make something truly amazing. I'm so stoked about the potential that I just slobbered on my keyboard.

    Contact me in person justin@vanderpol.org or by cell 206.390.2237.
    I support Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance!

  3. #3
    Justin Vander Pol
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    A couple other things. Pass sales are up, and Hancock appreciates this! Thank you for buying passes, it's one of the reasons they're open to our ideas. I just drooled again thinking about the potential!

    Buy your pass here:
    https://hancockrecreationnw.com/snoq...mie-forest-non

    Also please be respectful of the neighbors when parking. The 356th lot has been overflowing at peak hours. This also happened a few years ago and one of the neighbors asked us to reign things in. He was chill about it, but was obviously a bit tired of people parking on his land.

    So please don't park on the grass strip just downhill from the lot or in other areas that could bug the neighbors. I know parking is tough. Maybe we can all try to carpool a bit more on weekends or park more often at the Tokul West lot, which is what I've been doing.
    I support Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance!

  4. #4
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    A big issue I think is the guys in the jumbo horse trailers on 356th. There were two of them trying to squeeze into an already over flowing lot. You would think there would be a better place to unload.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  5. #5
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    We're going to run into a LOT of conflict as the horse community gets wind of the trails being re-opened up there. Many of them also have "grandfathered" issues too. Meaning that they are "local and have been riding there forever" and feel that offers them some entitlements. Many of the east riders have moved to West after the logging and it's possible they will be moving back. As for parking, same issue we have. The only other options are the lot across from the new "Duvall Bistro" and the tennis court lots at the Salish. They don't have, "a better place" other than those. Any "us/them" issues will not bode well for the MTB community and we have to remember that. Consider ourselves lucky that they are not trying to park those behemoths in the Duthie lot....

  6. #6
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    It's just funny to see a trailer block about 15 cars while they unload of bunch of overgrown dogfood. They take there sweet time to get unloaded an out of the way too. I've never seen any conflict of issues though and every horse rider I've ever encountered has been very friendly.

    Atleast they are using the area they are parking at. I've seen a group of 15+ roadies park at the Duthie lot early on a Sunday then takeoff down the road for their ride.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  7. #7
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    BBQ/Juice,

    It would probably help to reach out to the Raging River Riders folks to give them the head's up. Most of them were super cool folks when I worked with them in the past. I still have their contact info. if you don't.

    Also, there were a couple of times when we were excessively loud in the parking lot after our Thursday night ride. The crew chipped in and FM bought the retired sheriff who lives below the lot a pretty nice GC from Home Depot and included a note saying we would be quieter in the future. The guy was stoked and super nice after that (we also kept our end of the promise).

    Cheers,
    EB

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lynch View Post
    It's just funny to see a trailer block about 15 cars while they unload of bunch of overgrown dogfood. They take there sweet time to get unloaded an out of the way too.
    We got stuck there last weekend for the same reason. Took 20 minutes for themt o get their party saddled and out of the way while 4 cars were waiting to leave. Oh well, it happens I guess.

    I've never had a bad experience with the horse riders since moving out here, most are very polite and their animals are obviously trained well most of the time. Back in IL, whew, totally different story
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  9. #9
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    When parking across from the bistro,just ride up the paved road through the gate to get to svt?

  10. #10
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    Silly Question but who makes the call on what's 'too big' out there?

    I finally rode the trail that is west of Crazy Ivan and Minefield that dead ends into the creek. Awesome trail but Holy ***t! Power to the folks that hit that stuff and all, but all I could think about was that sooner or later someone is going to have to crawl out of there with a broken tib/fib or something.

  11. #11
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    This trail is extreme and not recommended for anybody going it alone or having hiked it first. . . I headed down this on adventure/interest and hiked pretty much the entire trail. Props to anyone w/the balls to drop in.

  12. #12
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    Definitely not a good idea to ride that one blind. The first drop was actually pretty sweet, the balance had me looking for go-arounds for sure.

  13. #13
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    You guys must be talking about KGB. It actually isn't as hard or scary as it looks, but it does need some work to get it back into great riding condition.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  14. #14
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    Scary, yup. I could see myself doing the drop from between the trees but then I got scared because that is scary ;-)

  15. #15
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    BTW trailhore, yes, just go out the paved road north of the bistro and up to the SVT that way. You will be right below teh Beaver Pond Trail on the map. (Almost done logging that area and the trail is in good shape. At the SVT, it's about a mile? to the usual 356th TH for T-East.

  16. #16
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    Might as well just climb West and take Golden Spike. That would be a fun warm up!
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  17. #17
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    KGB looks like my style of trail, haven't been on that one yet. Is that further west from the pump track?
    Tarekith.com

    '12 RM Slayer70, i9 Torch, Flow EX, XT Brakes, 5050 s3.

  18. #18
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    If your facing the start of Crazy Ivan, its the trail that stays along the ridge to the right. You follow the ridge for a few hundred feet and then the trail "drops" into a steep ravine. It was full of leaves and fallen branches a few weeks ago, so it wasnt the best conditions.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  19. #19
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    Ok, good to hear there's another trail there out that way. I saw that oe leading off and was going to check it out next time, I'll scout it first.
    Tarekith.com

    '12 RM Slayer70, i9 Torch, Flow EX, XT Brakes, 5050 s3.

  20. #20
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    I ran into a couple of riders at PVCA today that ride KGB, they told me that I missed lower KGB completely and that after (or near) where you cross the creek there is another trail off to the right that drops all the way down to the parking lot. The name of the feature with the two tree's is 'Goal Post'. Seems appropriate.

    BTW the trail to the top of KGB is a not in great shape but KGB was completely groomed, at least the part we rode.

  21. #21
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    Re: T-East mayhem: Part Deux

    So I've ridden kgb and crazy Ivan quite a bit before logging began, and now recently I'm loving midtown and I think flowtron is better than ever.

    At the start of midtown, there are no trespassing signs on both sides of the trail, which leads back to old pump track, crazy Ivan and kgb, is there another way to crazy Ivan without cutting thru dudes land?

  22. #22
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    Please don't modify the upper part of KGB. I like that there are logs across the narrow trail. It is not that it isn't groomed, it's just that it is a normal single track trail, not a 6 foot wide bermy Duthie trail.

    (and NO! Borneo didn't put me up to this post)
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  23. #23
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    We picked up all the trash in the 356th lot last weekend. We walked out with almost a full garbage bag. Good thing to do for our neighbors.

    Anyone interested in raking out KGB? I through a stick into the wheel, tore off the derailler.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    BTW trailhore, yes, just go out the paved road north of the bistro and up to the SVT that way. You will be right below teh Beaver Pond Trail on the map. (Almost done logging that area and the trail is in good shape. At the SVT, it's about a mile? to the usual 356th TH for T-East.
    Thanx

  25. #25
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    @ innovator8 - I'm trying to piece that together too. Map anyone?

  26. #26
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    Re: T-East mayhem: Part Deux

    Which map? I likely have more but we usually ride same trails.com I know I have last frontier and maybe kgb to

  27. #27
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    I figured it out thanks to FM's post. The place is hard to make a mental map of, but it's definitely worth the effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by innovator8 View Post
    Which map? I likely have more but we usually ride same trails.com I know I have last frontier and maybe kgb to

  28. #28
    ride your bike
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    Some other details to keep in mind when dealing with horse riders:

    If approaching a horse/rider, get off your bike and walk. Talk to the rider so the horse knows you're a human. This immediately makes the rider feel safer and makes you look sensitive to their presence.

    If approaching a rider/horse from behind, give them a bit of room but speak up. Let the rider and horse know you're back there. Keep some distance but ask if it's ok to pass. Maybe ask the rider if he/she prefers you dismount to pass.

    There are a**holes everywhere, but I've never encountered a negative situation with horse riders employing these two simple things. Hope this helps!
    --Bill
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by juice View Post
    A couple other things. Pass sales are up, and Hancock appreciates this! Thank you for buying passes, it's one of the reasons they're open to our ideas. I just drooled again thinking about the potential!

    Buy your pass here:
    https://hancockrecreationnw.com/snoq...mie-forest-non
    Thanks for the link Juice. Just bought a pass for my (soon to be) family of 4. Eeek!
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

  30. #30
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    Agreed. Most all the equestrians I run into out in Tokul in particular are pretty cool. One even pulled a couple cold beers out of a saddle bag for us on a hot day. Who knew they were refrigerated with a big bag of ice.

  31. #31
    Moist and Delicious
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubilee View Post
    Some other details to keep in mind when dealing with horse riders:

    If approaching a horse/rider, get off your bike and walk. Talk to the rider so the horse knows you're a human. This immediately makes the rider feel safer and makes you look sensitive to their presence.

    If approaching a rider/horse from behind, give them a bit of room but speak up. Let the rider and horse know you're back there. Keep some distance but ask if it's ok to pass. Maybe ask the rider if he/she prefers you dismount to pass.

    There are a**holes everywhere, but I've never encountered a negative situation with horse riders employing these two simple things. Hope this helps!
    --Bill
    This. I too have NEVER encountered an angry rider because I showed trail respect. I sound off way ahead of time on descents, etc. The only time I haven't basically screamed the entire descent was on bike exclusive runs, like in BC. Anyways... YMMV.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubilee View Post
    Some other details to keep in mind when dealing with horse riders:

    If approaching a horse/rider, get off your bike and walk. Talk to the rider so the horse knows you're a human. This immediately makes the rider feel safer and makes you look sensitive to their presence.

    If approaching a rider/horse from behind, give them a bit of room but speak up. Let the rider and horse know you're back there. Keep some distance but ask if it's ok to pass. Maybe ask the rider if he/she prefers you dismount to pass.

    There are a**holes everywhere, but I've never encountered a negative situation with horse riders employing these two simple things. Hope this helps!
    --Bill
    Also pass a horse on the downhill side of a trail, they tend to run up hill if they feel the need to get away from something.
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  33. #33
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    The down hill pass is also in reference to a fight or flight tendency these relative dumb animals have. They usually get attacked from above (cougars, etc...) and are much more wary of things above them. perhaps more important in the backcountry where there is no "escape" up on a steep, benched side hill trail.

  34. #34
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    Yep. Movements that happen above a horse are much more likely to spook them than those that happen below their eyeline. In addition, if you do slip, it is better to slide down and away from the horse rather than down and under it. Of course, if there is no space for passing, you get to turn around and back up.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighitboy View Post
    We picked up all the trash in the 356th lot last weekend. We walked out with almost a full garbage bag. Good thing to do for our neighbors.

    Anyone interested in raking out KGB? I through a stick into the wheel, tore off the derailler.

    Let me know if you go out to work on that trail I would be willing to help out.

  36. #36
    I didn't do it
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    The long list of rules that govern our behavior when encountering horses illustrates exactly why they shouldn't be allowed on multi use trails. Not to mention all the trail damage and $h1t they leave behind.

    Don't worry, I'm a good citizen when I see the beasts, I smile, talk in soft tones as to not spook the animals and I follow the unwritten rules (except dismounting) but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwbikur View Post
    The long list of rules that govern our behavior when encountering horses illustrates exactly why they shouldn't be allowed on multi use trails. Not to mention all the trail damage and $h1t they leave behind.

    I bet hikers say the same thing, but about MTBers. haha
    Epic trails get built in the Northwest by epic people!

    Sustainable quality trails please.

  38. #38
    I got the velcros
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    Got the full Tokul East experience on Saturday morning - starting with the surprise to find a 60% empty lot off 356th at 8:30. ESPECIALLY with the weather.
    The spandex crowd was packing each other in in the lot outside Fall City, I didn't think going up to 356th was worth it, but it paid off.

    Encountered some friendly horse people and their dogs on the way up to Flowtron, I always make sure to make some sort of noise to alert them before I get too close.
    Saw them again at the outlet of FT after a couple runs, rear brake howling like a mother****er for the first time ever...that'll need to be investigated. Anything less than stealth will not stand.
    Had it not, I might have spooked their horses and dogs. Apologized for the brake nonetheless, I hate that ****.

    Parking lot looked great, looks like the trash cleanup is holding up.

    And some dudes camped on the SVT doing repair work right under the outlets of some of the trails dropping down...probably not the best place to be.

    By 11:30 Preston-Fall City was jammed with one biker after another heading out.

    Fantastic day to be out. And saw a total of 5 souls from no closer than 1/4 mile away.

  39. #39
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    It was quiet at Tokul because everyone and their brother was riding Duthie.

    Nice day for a ride though, any one know why the ambulance came to Duthie? I didnt see anyone get hurt.
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  40. #40
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    Sunday was good at Tokul too. We arrived at 7:45am, and where the first car there. A group of 7 joggers parked near us (in 6 different cars) as we started our ride. I thought that would cause some parking issues, but when we headed out at 11am there were still a couple empty spots.

    Trail conditions were perfect. Pretty much zero mud, and super grippy dirt. Midtown is getting rutted up and I think it is making it more techy and fun! Not sure how substainable some of the sections are, but I know the builders wil stay on top of it and fix things and they wear in.

    Does anyone know the name of the newish trail next to OGDH that starts near the top of the powerline hill? It has a couple BIG jumps near the end of it. Fun trail and a great addition to the area.

    One trend I've notice is less riders going over to the smooth goodness of Flowtron, and more riders heading toward the more difficult trails (Ivan, Midtown). I wonder if people are just looking for something way different than what you see at Duthie.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  41. #41
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    The dirt This weekend was awesome...before the coming rain.

    Goose chase. Not too happy about it braiding the OG but fun non-the-less.

    I think folks are "graduating" from Duthie, and there just aren't that many steep trails around here. I also think more folks should go over to the Kitsap and give Green Mtn a shot. It has a couple steep, fast trails and is about the only place close by this time of year where you get a good climb in and have a lengthy descent. It also holds up well in the winter.

  42. #42
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    I like the new exit for lower Ivan too. That is a fun addition.

    Tokul East is one the the few lowland areas that is fairly close by that has steeps and drains well. That's why it is one of our winter go to spots.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  43. #43
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    I was going to say the same thing, my favorite thing about Tokul is that it has trails that are pretty unique in terms of steep with a real pucker factor. And it's rarely crowded on the trail, despite the parking at times.
    Tarekith.com

    '12 RM Slayer70, i9 Torch, Flow EX, XT Brakes, 5050 s3.

  44. #44
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    Re: T-East mayhem: Part Deux

    Goose chase huh? I'll be hitting that from the top next time, but I'm not doing that big gap near the middle, holy hell! I should be good on the rest of it.

    I had almost enough stones top drop the "plank" on flowtron, maybe next time...

  45. #45
    I got the velcros
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    Quote Originally Posted by innovator8 View Post

    I had almost enough stones top drop the "plank" on flowtron, maybe next time...
    It was still in the frosty shadows, so a no-go on that one.

  46. #46
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    We rode Tokul East last night. Arrived at 7:45 pm and the parking area was nearly full. A fire truck was in the lot and someone said a guy ate it hard on one of the flowtron drops. Hopefully he is ok.

    Riding Tokul in the dark might be even more fun than riding in the daytime! Midtown was great but Flowtron was pretty dusty and loose.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  47. #47
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    Heard from Slop you guys were over there last night. I guess I'm getting some side grief for my poor review of MidTown... (Looks like a moto tried to ride up it which probably didn't help.)

  48. #48
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    The trail was pretty primitive when it was opened, so the loamy topsoil rutted up and wore away real quick. It was pretty bad at first, but it is starting to get down to more solid soil and wear in real nice. Some steep sections are getting skid rutted like Crazy Ivan, but that's to be expected. We just like how that one trail has a good mix of all the stuff at T-E.
    13 SJ Evo, 14 Aurum, 14 Fatboy, 15 P.3

  49. #49
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    Perception is a fickle thing. I heard it was better from others right after it was opened.

    Doesn't seem like Glenn is getting bombarded by complaints so maybe the TH courtesy awareness is working.

  50. #50
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    I bet the diving board gets removed as a Handcock request.

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