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  1. #1
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    South Sea Tac trails need support!

    So recently, it has come to my attention that the trail networks by des moines creek park in SeaTac are scheduled to be demolished and have a prison built on top of them in early september, 2009. This development would not only affect the flow- park jump section of the trails, but also many of the cross country trails that washington riders race on every year to warm up for the indie series, and as part of the seattle cyclocross series as well.

    please contact dave upthegrove, representative for the 33rd district and show your support for the trails.

    here is a link to an article in the P.I. and to a blog regarding the flow parks fate.

    http://bonesovermetal.com/syndrome/2...k-seattle-p-i/

    hopefully we can get riders together and keep these great trails around for awhile!

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/401584_jail27.html

  2. #2
    gmoney was gmoneybike
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    Opportunity???

    Should the project go forward riders need to push for mitigation. The jail is a big ticket item and there needs to be some quid pro quo for recreational loss. I beleive the State Environmental Policy Act allows for this. Perhaps mitigation money could be made available for a future permanent bike park elsewhere in the Des Moines/SeaTac area.

    Also don't be afraid to team up with neighbors, hikers, xc and cyclocross racers and the businesses that support them. They are all users of this existing open space.

    There has got to be a point person or agency on this but it is involving several differnt agencies/governments in addition to elected officials. Does anyone have an idea whom that might be?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghashmi
    Should the project go forward riders need to push for mitigation. The jail is a big ticket item and there needs to be some quid pro quo for recreational loss. I beleive the State Environmental Policy Act allows for this. Perhaps mitigation money could be made available for a future permanent bike park elsewhere in the Des Moines/SeaTac area.
    While South Seatac isn't the best area around, it perhaps is the best area within Des Moines/Seatac for trails. Within the green space itself along the Southeast portion there is more land to possibly grab, BUT it's currently being used for Des Moines police training, and i'm not real certain how worthwhile it would be. The old "Maywoods" above Tyee Golf Course West of 8th would probably be more ideal. But i don't know who owns the land, likely Seatac/Port of Seattle.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghashmi
    Also don't be afraid to team up with neighbors, hikers, xc and cyclocross racers and the businesses that support them. They are all users of this existing open space.
    Yup, grassroots is going to be how this get's done if anything get's done.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghashmi
    There has got to be a point person or agency on this but it is involving several differnt agencies/governments in addition to elected officials. Does anyone have an idea whom that might be?
    No idea, on all fronts.

    Lotta questions, not many answers.

    i don't like the idea of a jail there, will the racers really be behind the effort? How will efforts to fight the plan effect future access there to races? Evergreen is rallying behind effort for Kent Skills Parks, are they going to jump into an effort of resistance on this?

    There are alot of questions to be answered before even these questions are to be answered in my opinion. Whoever get's off the net and get's connected and starts doing the legwork will likely have the answers.
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  4. #4
    Daverham Lincoln
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    Does Evergreen have an official taskforce for this kind of thing or something? I would cry if SST went away.

    What can we do?
    Every day you don't get out and ride is a day you'll never get back.

    http://www.velotopia.org | http://www.900mpg.org

  5. #5
    Daverham Lincoln
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    How is it that there is no activity on this thread? Can we at least make it sticky or something?


    WE GOTTA SAVE SST!


    I hate to say it, but I don't really know where to start. Is Evergreen on this? I could us some guidance...

    Here's the jail project site:
    http://www.scorejail.org/timeline.html

    Here's is the guy who organizes the Wed night races, and cares a lot about the park:
    stiffwick@comcast.net
    Every day you don't get out and ride is a day you'll never get back.

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  6. #6
    Daverham Lincoln
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    "...public meetings specifically to address the jail, and related questions or concerns, are expected to be held in April...."

    We need to be there. How on earth do we find out when/where these meetings are?

    If this is a City of Des Moines thing, then this is a lead....

    http://66.175.4.144/city_gov/city_co...s/members.html
    Every day you don't get out and ride is a day you'll never get back.

    http://www.velotopia.org | http://www.900mpg.org

  7. #7
    Slothful dirt hippie
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    So what does Wick have to say about it? I'd think he'd be point-man on this....
    "...Some local fiend had built it with his own three hands..."

  8. #8
    Daverham Lincoln
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    Here is info for this guy....

    Rep. Dave Upthegrove
    (D) 33rd LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT
    Olympia Office:
    333 John L. O'Brien Building
    PO Box 40600
    Olympia, WA 98504-0600
    (360) 786-7868
    E-mail
    Every day you don't get out and ride is a day you'll never get back.

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  9. #9
    Daverham Lincoln
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    Upcoming Meeting & Events


    Meetings Schedule for 2009:

    All meetings will be held in Renton City Hall at 8:30am.

    March 25
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    Every day you don't get out and ride is a day you'll never get back.

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  10. #10
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    Is SST lagit or did it just happen and the government didn't say no? Is it an actual park or just some area that nobody cares about? No one wants a jail in their 'hood so they stick them where they will get the least complaints. I think SST is doomed. Help us get Duthie finished before SST is no more.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  11. #11
    Daverham Lincoln
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    SST is not an official park, but it overlaps a real park, Des Moines Creek. I just learned that there is a NORTH Seatac too, nuts... not giving up yet though. Jails seem easy to get rid of, they are rejected and moved all the time for various reasons having nothing to do with recreational use of the land on which they want to put them.... seems like that means we have more than one reason to fight it, but no one seems to care, except the people who race there every wednesday night, like me - and for people like us, this is too good of a thing to let go, it's a valuable part of our life and culture and a rare open public space. We need to make more of those, not fewer. There should be some kind of "grandfather clause" for park and park-like spaces, except that it IS private property - well sort of, owned by Port of Seattle, I'm not really sure it that makes it private or public, actually. Probably just a private company with a public-sounding name, like UPS. I don't know. Is Port of Seattle a gov't agency or a company?

    Either way. More trails, not less!
    Every day you don't get out and ride is a day you'll never get back.

    http://www.velotopia.org | http://www.900mpg.org

  12. #12
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    Here's the problem i see.

    All these trails are relatively gray. It sounds like Wick got permission to build and race there, but is there any real agreement other than a handshake?

    The land that the jail is going on is not currently within the park.

    When you turn a gray trail and try to convert it to a legit one, i'm sure it would take alot of time. And i'm fairly positive they would want to alter and sanitize the flowpark in many ways, as there are numerous safety hazards with the trail. Gaps and no planning on fall zones either.

    So the people that are working on putting up a jail, are the same persons who would factor in the decision to accept the flowpark and other trails and put them under the umbrella of their city park.

    Now i don't have any information, i'm just thinking out loud here. But to me the best thing possible to do is to take note of the popularity of the flowpark. Have people sign a petition stating the demand. And try to see if you can find another place in the area to carve out new lines.

    i mean realistically i just don't see how we can do both really quick (prevent jail, get flowpark legitamized), and most people are resigned to just let it happen, because any attempt to save it is going to take a huge load of effort. And i don't see many people willing to do the real legwork on it. And with efforts in Kent underway, i don't see Evergreen turning into a spoiler for the jail, when they are trying to broker a deal for new skills parks a few miles away. (This is my opinion i have no word from anyone in Evergreen if this is the official position)

    The history of the flowpark is one of don't rock the boat and the blind eye will continue to turn away from the gray trail. It's always been a gypsy show because all dowhill/freeride and bmx trails were illegal, with the advent of skills parks and work done in PA, Galby, and Oregon things are just now changing... So i don't know what to say, as i think eventually the XC trails will get buried in a new freeway someday too?

    But i really don't know, again i'm just kind of throwing thoughts out into the air here.

    i hate to be the guy poking holes in any bubble that's attempting to get off the ground here, but this is why i have a tendency to promote legit trails, as there is always going to be some sort of official platform to work on in situations like this. If South Seatac and the flowpark was going to be saved should there have been effort to make it legit years ago?
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  13. #13
    Daverham Lincoln
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    I appreciate having your experience/opinion on this Skooks, and as much as I am an avid downhill rider... I'm really talking about the XC trails. The flowpark is cool, and it will get moved to another location - probably even within the "park" - but the XC system will be fragmented by a high-traffic road, and that is a perfectly safe, multi-user trail system - so the safety thing shouldn't be an issue.... the "grayness" is what it is. Just a drag. Just like Victor Falls... and where the church is at Black Diamond and countless others. They go away and the never come back.
    Every day you don't get out and ride is a day you'll never get back.

    http://www.velotopia.org | http://www.900mpg.org

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by daverham
    I appreciate having your experience/opinion on this Skooks, and as much as I am an avid downhill rider... I'm really talking about the XC trails. The flowpark is cool, and it will get moved to another location - probably even within the "park" - but the XC system will be fragmented by a high-traffic road, and that is a perfectly safe, multi-user trail system - so the safety thing shouldn't be an issue.... the "grayness" is what it is. Just a drag. Just like Victor Falls... and where the church is at Black Diamond and countless others. They go away and the never come back.
    Yah i can ride to SST from my apartment, i enjoy a system so close. Sorry to be a Borneo on the subject but the XC trails in my opinion suck. BUT they have value for beginner riders as well as for the events they hold, XC races, cyclocross races, 4 hrs of Seatac. These are all things that i'm not into, but are valuable assets to our bikey community. The popularity alone of the Flowpark holds an equal amount of value.

    Is it worth protecting? Hell yes, i wish i had REAL knowledge of what it will take to make it happen, but i don't, and i have alot of other stuff on my plate to be a torch bearer on this.

    And my opinions should not be taken as gospel on this thread, as i'm admittedly unknowing of all the particulars.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghashmi
    Should the project go forward riders need to push for mitigation. The jail is a big ticket item and there needs to be some quid pro quo for recreational loss. I beleive the State Environmental Policy Act allows for this. Perhaps mitigation money could be made available for a future permanent bike park elsewhere in the Des Moines/SeaTac area.
    I think we're too late for this to happen. Comments needed to be stated prior to what's called the Mitigated Determination of Non Significance (aka MDNS) is issued. The MDNS is the document which states the mitigations a project must provide. If comments have not been submitted orally at a public hearing or written by the time the comment period has ended then a project is not required to mitigate.

    My guess is if construction is slated to begin in September then the comment period is long gone and an MDNS has already been issued. The best thing to do at this point is to ask the City to see the SEPA and MDNS documents since they are now public documents.

  16. #16
    Wierdo
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    I live in the North end and have never been to SST so don't know anything about what's happening down there (except what I read here), but it seems like Skooks nailed it on this one.

    I think a reasonable next step is for a group of local riders to approach the City Council or whatever govt. jurisdiction is appropriate and ask for another place to build trails. What would be even better is identify some city owned property somewhere that could be re-purposed for trails and then make a more specific proposal to get the ball rolling.

    Someone will have to step up and take the lead. Evergreen can assist, but the hard truth is that Evergreen has a lot already committed, and unless a river of money starts flowing Evergreen's way that would allow bring on more staff, they won't be able to take on any new projects right now.

    Getting something done will be hard and take a lot of time and will probably involve raising money. OTOH, I perceive that Mountain Biking is coming back into favor with many parks departments, so you may get a more receptive hearing than you expect.

    Good luck.

  17. #17
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    Oh, snap!

    I don't know why I even bothered to read this thread. Bored and finishing my beer perhaps...

    SST (the XC stuff) is valuable for the beginner to intermediate rider and for the race series which benefits the mtb community. But, once was enough for me. Yeah, if I lived by there, I 'd ride it all the time for fitness though.

    Look at it half full and see if there can be some push for the Kent thingy or some other permanent legal trails in trade if they are for sure going away. Woodway is right in that the tide seems to be changing and we should be riding the wave.

    Side note: Lots of good stuff going on at Duthie. Looking better every week.

  18. #18
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    Community Input and Outreach

    SCORE is currently seeking applicants for the Community Outreach Team. The Community Outreach Team will work with SCORE to address community concerns and questions. If you are interested in participating, send your letter of interest to SCORE Outreach Team, 1055 South Grady Way, Renton, Washington 98057. Priority will be given to:

    * Applicants that live in the cities of Des Moines or SeaTac
    * Applicants that live west of 18th Avenue South
    * Applicants that live South of 200th Street
    * Applicants that live north of 216th Street

    Questions and Comments can be e-mailed to SCOREjail@rentonwa.gov

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