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  1. #1
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    Modus Spring Trail Work Series at Duthie

    It's Modus March Madness at Duthie... Lotsa schwag and big prizes from Fox and Shimano for the top volunteers in the series. Stay tuned for more detail. In the meantime, sign up on the Evergreen calendar. First one is this Sat: 1st Modus Spring Work Party.



    Work parties are focused on and greening up construction areas beside new trails and beefing up Bootcamp and StepItUp with better drainage, flow and armoring. More info on Evergreen calendar: Evergreen MTB Calendar.
    Last edited by mwestra2; 03-15-2012 at 10:22 AM.

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    Sounds awesome, Mike! Too bad they're all on days I have to work! I keep telling Tim I will be out one of these sundays for a workparty soon!

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    Awesome idea. Does volunteering for other Duthie work parties count towards the Modus tally? Or, is it simply those posted days?

    BTW, when are you (et al) going to finish the Gravy Train walk-up. Running into people hiking up the trail is getting tiresome If someone would cut the wood, I could help with the mini-boardwalk.
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
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  4. #4
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    What's the deal with the antlers?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhfreethought View Post
    Does volunteering for other Duthie work parties count towards the Modus tally? Or, is it simply those posted days?
    The Modus schwag and prize deal is only for those 6 work parties posted on the calendar: Sat 3/17, Sat 3/24, Fri 3/30, Sun 4/1, Thu 4/5 and Sat 4/7. The work will be focused on beefing up the XC trails and greening up / cleaning up around the the clearing. That's where we really need the most help right now.

    Hope to see you there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhfreethought View Post
    BTW, when are you (et al) going to finish the Gravy Train walk-up. Running into people hiking up the trail is getting tiresome If someone would cut the wood, I could help with the mini-boardwalk.
    I'm leaning toward just bushwhacking a new path closer to the trail. I think it could be done in a day with big team of Gravy Train riders. Whutcha think, LgXtrCheeze? No uprooting vegetation or moving/upturning dirt... just clear a walkable path next to the trail.

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    Yah sounds good. Shouldn't be too bad. I'll be out next week to work on that and the problem spots with drainage and flow.

  8. #8
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    Just my .02c

    IMO the main reason people are pushing up Gravy Train, is just to session the particular jumps they're having problems clearing. So even if there's a good walk-up, I suspect many won't use it, unless it allows them to work on "Sections" of the trail without riding the entire thing.

    Not to mention.... seems to me, I could have ridden up the duthie hill trail (Boardwalk trail) in less time than it took to pedal up the walk-up. That's a pretty flat area, I'm not sure a walk-up is even required. That's my personal preference though, and I'm probably not the typical gravy train rider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    ...unless it allows them to work on "Sections" of the trail without riding the entire thing.
    Exchanged emails with the Cheeze... he's planning to make the walk-up right next to the trail so riders can session any part of the trail they want.

    I'm seeing people session from 4 spots... the very top, top of the little hill, just before the 2 berms and just before the last 4 or so jumps. I'd like to clear a little space around those "entrances", too.

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    Just like on the HLC line. We routed it close for people to watch other riders coming down and to offer bailout points. Nobody likes the other walkup because of the length and mudspots. No biggie. I like to watch riders coming down while I'm heading back up. It makes sessioning it more fun and you may learn something by watching others flying by.

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    Scotts post makes a good point. I agree, no way that walk-up will work, unless it offers some advantage. I've timed both the walkup and taking the trail (Step It Up). The walk up is about 10 seconds faster, averaged over 3 laps. If the bog wasnt there you could probably gain 20 sec. In mid summer (no mud) it will be even faster, but it is a moot point.

    If I see Kevin out there this weekend, I'll be glad to help.

    While we are fixing the muddy spots we should probably fix the third to the last jump. I land almost to flat, and then have a hard time cleaning the last two. I am sure you guys are aware and will keep fine tuning things. I love to throw dirt so I'll catch up with someone this weekend.
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
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    I didn't see it on the list but if anyone wants to walk Movin' On with a shovel and clear the pocket drains, it would be greatly appreciated. Until Kevin and Mike can get in and really open those suckers up. It's pretty dry now but there are a few trouble spots.

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    Good turn out today it was snowing then raining then it stopped. Lunch at the shelter was nice. We worked on the uphill part of Boot Camp adding berms and rollers for more flow and drainage.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

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    Glad to hear turnout was good last weekend. Hopefully lots of people show up for this weekend's work party too. Should be much better weather.

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    Modus Work Party at Duthie on Sat

    Yes! Saturday is looking nice...

    Join us any time between 10am and 3pm as we build berms, rollers and drains on Bootcamp, and green up the clearing. Evergreen MTB Calendar

    Great work party last Saturday... Thanks to James, Nate, Dave, Rob, Jerry, Mason/Renee, Max, Peter, Thomas, Mike, Vaughan and Cayden. Let me know if I forgot someone.

    Schwag to be had, grill to be fired up, cooler to be opened... and score points for the final prizes...



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    Good turnout today, more berms on Boot Camp.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

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    That's so sad..... Let's get the beginners to learn how to ride berms so they fail miserably later on flat or off camber turns... Controversial. Maybe. Right? Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    That's so sad..... Let's get the beginners to learn how to ride berms so they fail miserably later on flat or off camber turns... Controversial. Maybe. Right? Yes.
    Berms and rollers on Bootcamp and StepItUp have less to do about promoting or not promoting rider skills; or promoting flow. It's largely the by-product of having to make a trail sustainable in an environment one would not normally build a bike trail in (i.e. soft soils + flat terrain + deciduous forest). This is especially true for heavily used trails like Bootcamp. Without some residual rock the trail tread breaks down if a puddle forms in the ride line and then hundreds of wheels ride thru it. Absent of rock or boardwalking/turnpiking, one is largely left with altering the terrain to get the water out of the ride line asap as well as assisting the rider in staying off the breaks.

    The current work on Bootcamp alone is the 3rd major attempt to build/rebuild something sustainable in 2 years.
    The quiver: 2010 Santa Cruz Nomad, 2011 Specialized Demo II, 2011 Canfield Brothers Yelli Screamy.

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    Yeah, those pesky berms!

    Positive:
    Maximum corner exit speed
    More control
    Better drainage
    Super fun
    Look cool
    Dirt spraying off the tops
    Great photo ops
    Actually helps beginners learn how to corner properly.

    Negative:
    Borneo

    Yep, that about covers it.

  20. #20
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    Hehehe...

    We should just pave it...

  21. #21
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    i'm still not getting what the antler thing is about...
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  22. #22
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    I don't like berms! I don't like flow! I want more puddles, roots, mud and erosion!

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    C'mon Mike, you know the first two don't eliminate the last 4.

    Yeah, what's the deal with the antlers? (Diverting this away from me...)

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    Don't forget the roots aren't the same for 16 and 20 inch wheels with no suspension.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    That's so sad..... Let's get the beginners to learn how to ride berms so they fail miserably later on flat or off camber turns... Controversial. Maybe. Right? Yes.
    dang it, hate it when I have to agree with you.

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    Huge thanks to everyone who showed up to help for the first 2 Modus work parties! Fathers and sons, Mothers and sons, Duthie regulars, newcomers, young and old... all giving up part of their weekend to pitch in and improve Bootcamp!

    The teams attacked one of the worst sections of Bootcamp. Y'all took a skid prone, muddy, and rutty flow-killer and made it more consistent with what Bootcamp is supposed to be... green level, buff, fast, flowy, monsoon-proof, sustainable and way more fun for riders of all skill levels. Huge thanks again! Don't listen to the few grumpy ol' timers who want everything old school. Your work is greatly appreciated and I'm hearing tons of kudos for what you've accomplished! So...

    Keep it coming! There are 4 more Modus work parties to go. Next one: Fri 3/30 from 1pm to dark. Show up and leave whenever you like. If it's raining, hours count double!

    What are we going to work on? Hmmmm, let me think...

    Given the traffic on Bootcamp:
    • * 10K visits per year (with the 2K+ riders we've had over the last 9 days, I'm thinking it's far greater than that)
    • * Absolute beginner to expert riders
    • * 4-year olds on push bikes to 70 year olds on DH rigs


    And given the objectives for Bootcamp:
    • * Absolute beginner and small kid friendly
    • * Still fun for advanced riders
    • * Minimal braking
    • * Maximum flow
    • * Well draining


    Duuuuuuuuuhhhhhh...

    • More rollers in the flat sections (take flat trail and give it some grade, move the water off the trail, grade reversals!)
    • More berms (reduce braking and skidding, improve flow, move the water away from the tire path)
    • Big drains (rule of thumb: 2X as wide as deep, take 'em to daylight where possible, eliminate those silly quick-fix pocket drains )
    • Better outsloping and eliminate silly logs on the downhill side of the trail (high on the list of trail building 101 no-no's)
    • Invite riders to go where you want them to go by trail design vs. throwing a log down to force them to go where you want them to go
    • Eliminate off-camber turns (with Bootcamp's traffic, all those tires will just eventually create a berm anyway)


    Can't wait!

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    I'm looking forward to getting out there and getting dirty in the name of smooth, flowy trails this Friday!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwestra2 View Post
    Don't listen to the few grumpy ol' timers who want everything old school.
    Flat or off-camber turns are not old school. They are corners that are typical of multi-use trails, which when built are most always not built with wheels and how the wheels react with the trail tread.

    So flat-off camber is a choice that has been forced upon the mt. bike community. (by default really, most trails built before mt. biking)

    Berm is essentially an exaggerated insloped corner. A soft insloped corner with a grade reversal, wouldn't that be the favored corner/switchback a mt. biker would build? Of course it is.

    The argument at the onset was nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by mwestra2 View Post
    • * 10K visits per year (with the 2K+ riders we've had over the last 9 days, I'm thinking it's far greater than that)
    • * Absolute beginner to expert riders
    • * 4-year olds on push bikes to 70 year olds on DH rigs
    Was talking with Ride the other day, and one of the points of a quick conversation while he was with a crew of about 10 on the Gerks line, many of them teenagers, and many of them volunteers that have and will have a consistent presence at the park and other trails in the future i would assume.(and this is just one example of one trail build) Me and Ride spoke of the assessment that Duthie is a mt. bike factory.

    An out-sloped corner will cause riders who've been riding for years to skid out sometimes. Causing erosion. With what's happening at not only Duthie, but Galbraith, Beacon, Black Diamond, Capitol Forest, there's alot of action, and will be alot more mt. bikers.

    The inference that the park will cause more erosion is false, what's more accurate is we've been subjected to a poor design that has been standard. The point is Duthie and these other places are getting mt. bikers active and more a part of the bigger picture by default. The times they are a changing and that's always the way it is.

    The sooner we can move away from irrelevant misleading arguments, and focus more on actual issues, the better off as a community we will be.
    Last edited by Skookum; 03-28-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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  29. #29
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    The sooner we can move away from irrelevant misleading arguments, and focus more on actual issues, the better off as a community we will be.[/QUOTE]

    Once again, I have no idea what you are rambling about...

    If you are talking about the beginners and berms comment, I stand by it. It's not "old school" or grumpy berm hater talk. I love berms where appropriate. But, it's not the real world outside Duthie. I have faith that Debbie, the EMBA instructors, and even Simon would agree that having a berm to aid in turning and teaching that as the "standard" does nothing for riders who cannot successfully bank and ride at 3 and 9 on flat or outsloped turns which requires a different style of angulation and pedal placement. The bermed turn may be the way of the cyling future though personally I think it makes people lazy riders. But, it can't be incorporated into every turn one would ever ride and the more well rounded rider needs to know how to ride flat and off camber turns to be able to adapt and be successful. Duthie is not the end all, just the beginning and we are doing the mountain biking community a disservice by offering only one style of trail and selling it as the standard. Especially if we resort to that style every time we have a trail design issue. I agree wholeheartedly with Chad's statement about the wonderful diversity Duthie has to offer. There's no harm in keeping it that way.

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    Can you start a new thread on the "good & evil of almighty bermage"? I'd like to get this one focused back on: 1) letting folks know what's going on with the Modus/Fox/Shimano work parties and 2) getting as many volunteers to help finish up the maintenance/overhaul work on the XC trails... so we can git Duthie done and work on some new trails!

    BTW, 2 school bus loads of high school kids and teachers (35 total) and 2 volunteer crew leads (Tim and Steve) worked on green-up and clean-up beside trails and around the clearing so the Modus WPs can stay focused on XC trail work. Schweeeeeet. Huge Thanks!!!

    Also saw 2 dads with 3 tiny kids on push bikes rippin' on the pump tracks. Cute!

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    Isn't Duthie like a skateboard park for mtb's? Well Mr. Borneo skateboard parks do not prepare skaters to be street skaters. Skate parks are purpose built for max fun-factor. Just like Duthie is built for mtb's. Once those people get hooked on riding their bikes then they can learn how to wash out on an off-camber corner and pick muck out of their bleeding caracass. Bring on the Bermage!!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    The sooner we can move away from irrelevant misleading arguments, and focus more on actual issues, the better off as a community we will be.
    Once again, I have no idea what you are rambling about...

    If you are talking about the beginners and berms comment, I stand by it. It's not "old school" or grumpy berm hater talk. I love berms where appropriate. But, it's not the real world outside Duthie. I have faith that Debbie, the EMBA instructors, and even Simon would agree that having a berm to aid in turning and teaching that as the "standard" does nothing for riders who cannot successfully bank and ride at 3 and 9 on flat or outsloped turns which requires a different style of angulation and pedal placement. The bermed turn may be the way of the cyling future though personally I think it makes people lazy riders. But, it can't be incorporated into every turn one would ever ride and the more well rounded rider needs to know how to ride flat and off camber turns to be able to adapt and be successful. Duthie is not the end all, just the beginning and we are doing the mountain biking community a disservice by offering only one style of trail and selling it as the standard. Especially if we resort to that style every time we have a trail design issue. I agree wholeheartedly with Chad's statement about the wonderful diversity Duthie has to offer. There's no harm in keeping it that way.[/QUOTE]

    What Bob said. Hell must be freezing over if I'm agreeing with Borneo twice in a row.

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    **EDIT** because I realize I'm getting grumpy with all o' this...

    Could we all be a little less like these guys...



    and be more like these guys...



    and create a new thread.

    Thanks!


    Last edited by mwestra2; 03-28-2012 at 11:13 AM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACree View Post

    What Bob said. Hell must be freezing over if I'm agreeing with Borneo twice in a row.
    Once we're done with Deuces Wild i'll take both of you on. If either of you beat me once, you guys can say you won the argument. But once you see how i would actually use a berm to generate even more speed you would reconsider your position i'm sure.

    Three more things, Grand Ridge is just across the street. 6 miles of crappy turning aplenty, go knock yourself out.

    Why would a mt. bike trail built by and for mt. bikers not have berms? This stuff is so directly right in front of your face you can't even see it.

    And finally working at Duthie there are multitudes of times i see and hear the joy of riders smoking down Bootcamp downhill. i am but a fly on the wall, many times they don't know i'm eavesdropping as i'm busy working out there 2-4 times a week on average. They whoop, they holler, they are full of joy, and they make comments like that's the best trail they've ever ridden. When me and Mike W first started building on Deuces we had a handful of goals. One of them was to capture just a bit of the magic that makes Bootcamp what it is.

    As far as Simon or Kat, i'll let them speak for themselves to the benefit of Duthie to their teaching efforts. i only see them there ALL THE TIME...

    Next time you're in Bend why don't you just try to sell your bogus bill of goods at the bottom of Whoops.

    Kudos to the Modus effort, it's great to see industry rally behind the park as they have.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eerie View Post
    Isn't Duthie like a skateboard park for mtb's? Well Mr. Borneo skateboard parks do not prepare skaters to be street skaters. Skate parks are purpose built for max fun-factor. Just like Duthie is built for mtb's. Once those people get hooked on riding their bikes then they can learn how to wash out on an off-camber corner and pick muck out of their bleeding caracass. Bring on the Bermage!!
    That's a great analogy. The great thing about it is, people can discover other realms of mt. biking. It's a diverse sport/recreation. And being around mt. biking for so long you see people who change their primary mode of what they want to get out of their riding. In other words go from DH to XC to DJ back to XC.

    Duthie is a really cool little park, a great addition to the area with other parks that have their theme, so on and so on.
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  36. #36
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    True, every riding area and every trail has its theme. Berms help in some places and just trap water in others. Glad to see Duthie is getting the volunteer attention it needs. As for me I have more than enough to trail work do at Henry's Ridge, Black Diamond Natural Area, and Summit Ridge.

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    We at Evergreen take no responsibility for the antlers Borneo.

    On another note, I'm getting excited to get muddy at Duthie tomorrow afternoon. Looks like it's going to be a wet one. Hope to see lots of folks out there playing in those pesky puddles...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvergreenStacy View Post
    We at Evergreen take no responsibility for the antlers Borneo.

    On another note, I'm getting excited to get muddy at Duthie tomorrow afternoon. Looks like it's going to be a wet one. Hope to see lots of folks out there playing in those pesky puddles...
    Edit to a much more appropriate response. Thanks for coming out and getting dirty Stacy. Sorry for making the wrong assumption.

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    Oops. I guess I didn't make myself clear. I was referring to getting muddy WORKING out at Duthie tomorrow. This is, after all, the thread for the Modus trail work parties, and I will be out there working away in the rain with the crew. I was NOT referring to riding in the rain and mud (always a bad idea and hard on trails)!

    And if there are zero puddles anywhere in the greater Seattle area after this rainstorm I'm going to be mad impressed!

  40. #40
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    New thread here: Long Message: A little Duthie History + New Milestone ...but also appropriate to this thread...

    A short time after one of our awesome volunteers attended the first sponsored Duthie WP on 9/27/2008 (we've had over 20 WP sponsors since), he walked the woods and became interested in building at Duthie. On 11/21/2008 I received an email titled "The Model to Follow for Duthie" containing only the names of a few trails in Bend and a link to this video:

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/2284135?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="302" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/2284135">AllRide Edit of Whoops Trail in Bend, Or</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user430500">Kirt Voreis</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwestra2 View Post
    New thread here: Long Message: A little Duthie History + New Milestone ...but also appropriate to this thread...

    A short time after one of our awesome volunteers attended the first sponsored Duthie WP on 9/27/2008 (we've had over 20 WP sponsors since), he walked the woods and became interested in building at Duthie. On 11/21/2008 I received an email titled "The Model to Follow for Duthie" containing only the names of a few trails in Bend and a link to this video:

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/2284135?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="302" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/2284135">AllRide Edit of Whoops Trail in Bend, Or</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user430500">Kirt Voreis</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
    Ohhhh yeah, i'm starting to remember this now... it's all coming back. Wasn't me, wasn't you, hmmm who found this video?....
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  42. #42
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    Huge thanks to EvergreenStacy, Kevin, Nolan, Jon, John, Max, Mason, Renee and everyone who showed up for the WP on Friday. I missed out on the bliss... it was an absolute monsoon at 2pm when I had to go. I heard y'all greened up the whole area around the Deep Water Horizon and 3 Lil Pigs drops. Huge thanks again!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvergreenStacy View Post
    Oops. I guess I didn't make myself clear. I was referring to getting muddy WORKING out at Duthie tomorrow. This is, after all, the thread for the Modus trail work parties, and I will be out there working away in the rain with the crew. I was NOT referring to riding in the rain and mud (always a bad idea and hard on trails)!

    And if there are zero puddles anywhere in the greater Seattle area after this rainstorm I'm going to be mad impressed!
    Yeah, I screwed up and assumed you meant you were just going to go play in the mud and puddles 'cuz that's what I hear a lot. My bad. Sorry. Thanks for coming out and working in the deluge. Hopefully you can tag along with Glenn when he can peel himself away from other issues to tour yet another good possibility for additional public MTB playing.

  44. #44
    I5Troll
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    Quick heads-up... Thursday's Modus work party is from 3pm to 7pm (was originally posted as 1pm to 7pm). Sign up here: Evergreen MTB Calendar

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