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  1. #1
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    Cool-blue Rhythm electric bikes on wa trails?

    so it looks likes the electric bike craze may be taking off so what are your thoughts on people riding them on wa trails? i want to get a bomber Stealth Electric Bikes USA - Stealth Electric Bikes USA - Electric Bikes | E-Bikes | Electric Bicycles | Electric Mountain bikes for my commute to work being < 5 miles one way. someone posted a reward and signs in Japanese gulch for a vid or the name of whoever was riding one and no electric bikes on the trails but my thought is if there not destroying the trail anymore then I am whats the problem.

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    Even though they have pedals they are MOTORIZED.

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    electric bikes on wa trails?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eerie View Post
    Even though they have pedals they are MOTORIZED.
    Agreed. Keep them off trails designated for non-motorized use only.
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    Yep. Fancy electric moped. They look like fun, but are not bicycles, and should probably be treated as motos for purposes of trail access. Given their substantially higher weight (over 115 lbs) and much higher power/torque (about 6hp peak), they most likely will have much more impact on trails than bicycles will... just like motos do.

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    ya the stealth is like 115 lbs so with my 230lb that pretty heavy compared to my 30lb bike and me. just wondering cause we are going to see more and its going to come up at some point if they will be allowed on the mtb trails or not

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    electric bikes on wa trails?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrosey View Post
    ya the stealth is like 115 lbs so with my 230lb that pretty heavy compared to my 30lb bike and me. just wondering cause we are going to see more and its going to come up at some point if they will be allowed on the mtb trails or not
    Pretty clear to me. If motos are allowed, yes. If not, no.

    Want to see somebody pedal one out after the battery dies.
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  7. #7
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    I only use one for my Strava times.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  8. #8
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    Taking off? Where? Friends shouldn't let friends buy/ride electric bikes.....

    Can't wait to see the first poseur with one at Duthie....

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Pretty clear to me. If motos are allowed, yes. If not, no.

    Want to see somebody pedal one out after the battery dies.
    that would be a great workout lol.

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    Im way outa shape, me and my buddies always joke about having our bikes motorized, it would be so much easier to get to the top, however, having a motor, even and electric motor, makes it a motorcycle. just go get a 250.

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    It's a pretty serious question that our King County Parks folks are going to have to sort out. The link posted above has the look and feel of a moto, so I agree it should be banned on trails for non-motorized use only.

    However, what about the electric assist bikes like the link below? They're essentially regular bikes and the electric motor assists you in going a bit faster. Many people would benefit riding these to/from work on the rail-trails we have.

    Currie IZIP E3 Zuma LSF Bike - 2013 at REI.com

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    Not too keen on seeing electric assist bikes on rail trails, even paved; but, willing to keep an open mind. On soft-surface trails? Never: a recipe for both physical and political disaster.

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    Don't get me wrong, electric assist bikes qualify (in my mind) the same as mopeds and shouldn't be used anywhere that motorized bikes are prohibited. But the electric assist are so similar to regular bikes (you are required to pedal them, they don't move if you don't pedal) that it will be a challening question for Parks staff.

  14. #14
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    Linked Stealth bikes look like motos. Should be considered a moto.

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    The stealth bikes was the one i seen first and to me they look like a fun ride. Also the stealth is more for down hill so i was thinking places like tiger or Stevens pass is where i think they would be used. i only takes one stupid kid tearing up a trail doing burnouts and the such to ruin it.

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    electric bikes on wa trails?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrosey View Post
    The stealth bikes was the one i seen first and to me they look like a fun ride. Also the stealth is more for down hill so i was thinking places like tiger or Stevens pass is where i think they would be used. i only takes one stupid kid tearing up a trail doing burnouts and the such to ruin it.
    Non-motorized trails are non-motorized. Where would you draw the line?
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  17. #17
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    My wife is a CPA, so I got my bike notarized.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Non-motorized trails are non-motorized. Where would you draw the line?
    thats the issue im asking. i guess there has been one around the Japanese gulch area from the signs ive seen asking to report him or her if its seen on the trails. technically if they pedal it and not use the elec motor it is a bike, but using the elec motor makes it a scooter also most can be pedaled and the motor used at the same time making it a hybrid, so how would you police it. I guess you could exclude them on the trails but people are going to argue the its a bike that i can pedal and i only use the motor on the up hills bla bla bla... and never on the trails yada yada yada.

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    What if someone were to push a 250 lb dirt bike? Is it still a motorized vehicle? (yep) Should mopeds be treated as bicycles also simply because they can be pedaled? (nope). I think the presence of a motor is a bright-line differentiator.

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    A motor is a motor, electric, gas, steam, whatever. Technically, some say if it's gas powered it's actually an engine and if electric it's a motor... never the less, electric powered vehicles are already included in most land management(s) list of "motorized vehicles". Even if your not using the motor, the vehicle has been "motorized".

    +1 Borneo- "friends shouldn't let friends buy/ride electric bikes"

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    Could be a game changer for local IPA fueled night rides.

    Also, I'd expect to see these sooner or later at a bike park like Whistler. I'd probably wear a mustache and a pair of dark shades if I rented one at Whistler, but really- how freakin' cool would it be to have an uphill bike park!

    Get the weight down to about 80lbs and we'll all have one :-)

  22. #22
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    Only people sick in the head would consider an uphill bike park. You climbing guys are taking things too far to avoid the flow !

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  23. #23
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    I dunno....going 20 mph UP A line, and skying up all of the jumps would be pretty sick. And flowy.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

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    A sport is born!

    Imagine, life becomes one giant step up

    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I dunno....going 20 mph UP A line, and skying up all of the jumps would be pretty sick. And flowy.

  25. #25
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    Re: electric bikes on wa trails?

    Which part of NOn-motorized is hard to understand?

    To be clear: No, No, No,No, No!

    Stay after class and write NO until the blackboard is full.

  26. #26
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    Mmmmm motors are good. In the right place of course!

  27. #27
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    That's it for me.....selling the power saws and excavator. All cross cuts and shovels on trails from now on. Just joking.....

    If it has a motor; it is a motorized vehicle, period. There are too many factors out there reducing the quality of the ride experience, let's not dumb it down any further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Len.Francies View Post
    Which part of NOn-motorized is hard to understand?

    To be clear: No, No, No,No, No!

    Stay after class and write NO until the blackboard is full.
    but i cant teacher i got to go to work so i can buy that new elec mountain bike lol.

  29. #29
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    Re: electric bikes on wa trails?

    If you can sell it to future land managers I'll roll over in my future grave.

  30. #30
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    I am very interested in eBikes and the technology. I have lurked on the ES forums for years. I do RC, so know a bit out motors, lipos, and chargers. I have several big plans for my ebike, which will be based on a freeride/DH platform. However, it will NEVER be ridden on trail.

    Riding a motorized bike on bicycle trails is stupid. The only ads I have seen for the bike you mentioned are merely a thinly veiled proposal to 'stealth' poach trails you really want to ride on your moto, but might get caught if you did. If you want to do that, you need an eMoto, not an eBike.

    The main purpose I see for eBikes, are for commuting distances that are not easily done, or too dangerous on a road bike. (think 50-100 mile round trip, like my commute). An eBike, can be ridden at high speed (35mph) at the speed of traffic, through the city, and then on the PAVED bike lane, under human power. This is the only way to safelydo my commute, which takes about 90 minutes each way under pure human power, and passes through streets with Strava names like "4th Ave death sprint".

    If you want an electric bike that will be ridden off road, you really want an electric motorcycle. You want that power, you want that geo. Trust me, eMotos have a strong future.
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  31. #31
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    I've thought about an electric boosted road commuter too. The bus picks up my daughter just about an hour before I should be clocking in ~19 miles away, uphill, and often into hellacious wind. Not being Lance Armstrong that's the only way I figure I could pull it off.

    FWIW the only electric assist bike I've ever seen on trails belonged to a women who's husband had set it up on her regular ride because she had come down with MS but didn't want to give up mountain biking. She still pedaled what she could but climbing some stuff had gotten tough. So while *technically* I'm 100% opposed to e-bikes on trails... you'd have to be a whole lot more heartless than I to dish on them for it. I can only hope she and her husband are still riding everything they can together.
    "...Some local fiend had built it with his own three hands..."

  32. #32
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    I want one where the motor comes off the bike, and turns into a chainsaw, pruner, and weed whacker.
    Only for trail days, of course.
    Hmmm...this is actually a great idea!
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len.Francies View Post
    Which part of NOn-motorized is hard to understand?

    To be clear: No, No, No,No, No!

    Stay after class and write NO until the blackboard is full.
    Werd!
    It's a bad idea, no if's and's or but's.

  34. #34
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    I'm nearly certain I saw/heard an e-assist bike on Grand Ridge Sunday... I kept hearing a strange whirring sound and seeing a rather stout fellow gaining on me Very Quickly on the front climb, then stopping and chatting on his cell phone, then whirring up to me again.

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    the only electric assist bike I've ever seen on trails belonged to a women who's husband had set it up on her regular ride because she had come down with MS but didn't want to give up mountain biking.
    That's a person with a medical disability and different rules apply to them. You can take your motorized wheelchair (aka ATV) into the wilderness if you have a medical disability.

  36. #36
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    electric bikes on wa trails?-img_20130405_152911.jpg
    There is rather a large difference between an e-bike and an electric moped/scooter/motorcycle. Think golf cart vs Nissan Leaf. The Stealth Bomber, though referred to as an e-bike, does exceed the federal regulations to keep it defined as a bicycle despite it's 20mph limiter. I think those, or any other "high powered e-bikes," pose a threat on trails shared with walkers, hikers, dog walkers, horses, other mountain bikers, the trail itself, etc.

    Generally speaking, so long as the bike falls under the definition of bicycle under federal law, it's all good. However, local laws may not permit e-bikes period.

    As some of the above posts had stated, e-bikes that fall within the power restriction to still be called a "bicycle" by definition is not going to give you the same experience as a true motorized bike electric or not. 750W is roughly 1HP, and you're going to have to pedal to make it up any moderate incline almost as hard as any other rider who's juicing. Just no side effects.

    My bike, for example, does fall within the laws federally & in California keeping it a bicycle (It does comply with the sign above ). However, I must note that any skilled rider on an XC 29er is going to be able to burst up a hill faster than me. There isn't as much speed or effort advantages for the notice or average rider.

    Why do I have one? It's nice having a heavy downhill bike I don't have to kill myself pedaling/walking to the top of a hill over and over again (my personal ski lift... that still requires pedaling). I also like using it as a trainer without a battery. It weighs 60lbs w/o battery, and I can tackle most hills with it unplugged. It makes me feel like the wind when I switch over to any of my regular bikes.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Around 2002 or so I noticed that the new generation of downhill bikes looked like motorcycles without motors. So I'd have to say that of it looks like a motorcycle, contains a motor and climbs hills without pedaling - it's a motorcycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyungjae View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is rather a large difference between an e-bike and an electric moped/scooter/motorcycle. Think golf cart vs Nissan Leaf. The Stealth Bomber, though referred to as an e-bike, does exceed the federal regulations to keep it defined as a bicycle despite it's 20mph limiter. I think those, or any other "high powered e-bikes," pose a threat on trails shared with walkers, hikers, dog walkers, horses, other mountain bikers, the trail itself, etc.

    Generally speaking, so long as the bike falls under the definition of bicycle under federal law, it's all good. However, local laws may not permit e-bikes period.

    As some of the above posts had stated, e-bikes that fall within the power restriction to still be called a "bicycle" by definition is not going to give you the same experience as a true motorized bike electric or not. 750W is roughly 1HP, and you're going to have to pedal to make it up any moderate incline almost as hard as any other rider who's juicing. Just no side effects.

    My bike, for example, does fall within the laws federally & in California keeping it a bicycle (It does comply with the sign above ). However, I must note that any skilled rider on an XC 29er is going to be able to burst up a hill faster than me. There isn't as much speed or effort advantages for the notice or average rider.

    Why do I have one? It's nice having a heavy downhill bike I don't have to kill myself pedaling/walking to the top of a hill over and over again (my personal ski lift... that still requires pedaling). I also like using it as a trainer without a battery. It weighs 60lbs w/o battery, and I can tackle most hills with it unplugged. It makes me feel like the wind when I switch over to any of my regular bikes.
    i going to have to look into that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Racnad View Post
    Around 2002 or so I noticed that the new generation of downhill bikes looked like motorcycles without motors. So I'd have to say that of it looks like a motorcycle, contains a motor and climbs hills without pedaling - it's a motorcycle.
    Well it's a good thing that you're not writing the laws.

    That rationale sorta reminds me of all this assault weapons ban stuff where what it looks like it can do rather than what it actually can do is more important.

    Don't get me wrong though, it would be a whole lot easier to ban e-bikes altogether than try to enforce which ones comply with the law.

    I think I can go up hills without pedaling with my rig using my granny gear. It'll likely be slower than walking though.

    In the end it really is about common courtesy to everyone else on the trail. Regardless if I'm riding my 100% human powered bike vs my Stink-E, I'm still going to stop for horses, wait for hikers/joggers, dog walkers, to get to the top of the hill before I go down.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyungjae View Post
    Well it's a good thing that you're not writing the laws.

    That rationale sorta reminds me of all this assault weapons ban stuff where what it looks like it can do rather than what it actually can do is more important.

    Don't get me wrong though, it would be a whole lot easier to ban e-bikes altogether than try to enforce which ones comply with the law.

    I think I can go up hills without pedaling with my rig using my granny gear. It'll likely be slower than walking though.

    In the end it really is about common courtesy to everyone else on the trail. Regardless if I'm riding my 100% human powered bike vs my Stink-E, I'm still going to stop for horses, wait for hikers/joggers, dog walkers, to get to the top of the hill before I go down.
    thank you i couldn't figure out what to equate that to.

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    +1

    It's more about the rider than the ride. I don't have a problem with sharing trails with MTBs that have a modest level of assist to help folks that may not be capable of doing it under 100% human power or are maybe just ebike geeks. I do have a problem with someone leaving a roostertail behind them as they climb a hill at 30 mph on their 5kwatt 250 lb emonster bike.

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    Gees haters. Just listen to yourselves.

    Seems the Bomber is taking flak. My Stealth Fighter is 69lbs.(stock is 75lbs) and I'm 150lbs... It will do 33mph on flat rode. On the trail, it will not go any faster than anybody else with all of those pesky trees and rocks
    E-bikes that are trail capable are not able to do burn-outs, or make rooster tales. They have NO more of a "trail impact" than any other mtb. They do enable a busy 40+ dad with badish knees a chance to enjoy the trials again.
    I pedal my a$s off still, but it's like having super PED strength.

    If you don't like the moto look of Stealth.,..
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    Wow, that thing is sweet.

    Now that I have a few months of mtbing under my belt, I have found there is one place where a bit of e assist would be real nice, uphill tight stuff where crank position is important to dodge obstacles, but, you don't have enough speed to stop pedaling. Having just enough assist go get through these would be nice. Till then, I guess I need to work on my stutter step pedaling.

    I would bet that such a bike could be built that added little weight. Very little battery, maybe even just caps and a very light hub motor as the duty cycle (time on/time off) would be very short. It wouldn't need to be big to dissipate heat.

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    Kindof a weird first post, so first : hey folks, I just got into bicycling again after riding motos for about 15 years. Really digging it.

    I've also spent some time getting excited about e-bikes in various forms, and what kind of extra trail oppertunities they open up. One of the reasons I'm now peadling more than twisting the throttle is the oppertuniites for motorized recreation shrunk to the point they were too much of a hassle to get to. The conclusion I came to was : an ebike doesn't get you much in terms of riding areas over a regular moto.

    The RCW makes a pretty clear distinction between a Motorcycle, Bicycle, Motor-driven cycle, and electric assist bicycle (Chapter 46.04 RCW: DEFINITIONS). It also defines what and what is not a motor vehical (RCW 46.04.320: Motor vehicle.).

    It kinda looks like to me that anything that goes when you're not pedaling (self-propelled/has a throttle), is for sure a no-no, and anything making more that 1.5hp (~1k Watts) "at the crank" is also a no-go. E-assist bikes making 1.5hp or less? That's where the question is. That's inline with what's possible for a human to put out, if just for a few seconds....

    I've been passed by e-assist bikes on my commute before, and my thought was that they sure make the hills look easy, but that's about the only speed differential I noticed. On the flats and downhill, I could keep up no problem.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawker665 View Post
    Kindof a weird first post, so first : hey folks, I just got into bicycling again after riding motos for about 15 years. Really digging it.

    I've also spent some time getting excited about e-bikes in various forms, and what kind of extra trail oppertunities they open up. One of the reasons I'm now peadling more than twisting the throttle is the oppertuniites for motorized recreation shrunk to the point they were too much of a hassle to get to. The conclusion I came to was : an ebike doesn't get you much in terms of riding areas over a regular moto.

    The RCW makes a pretty clear distinction between a Motorcycle, Bicycle, Motor-driven cycle, and electric assist bicycle (Chapter 46.04 RCW: DEFINITIONS). It also defines what and what is not a motor vehical (RCW 46.04.320: Motor vehicle.).

    It kinda looks like to me that anything that goes when you're not pedaling (self-propelled/has a throttle), is for sure a no-no, and anything making more that 1.5hp (~1k Watts) "at the crank" is also a no-go. E-assist bikes making 1.5hp or less? That's where the question is. That's inline with what's possible for a human to put out, if just for a few seconds....

    I've been passed by e-assist bikes on my commute before, and my thought was that they sure make the hills look easy, but that's about the only speed differential I noticed. On the flats and downhill, I could keep up no problem.
    I've heard (read on the internet), that a lot of e-bikers use them because it gives them the ability to "flatten" hills. It's an interesting thought.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Just saw this in another thread-

    I am located in Switzerland, a mountainous paradise for MTBs, and I am seeing more and more people riding e-MTBs. My worry is that, over time, this will lead to trail-biking becoming a mass recreation, like downhill skiing, where thousands of unfit people compete acrimoniously for slope space. In the skiing dept. you can avoid the masses by going ski-touring which requires deep-snow skills and considerable endurance. But what will prevent the masses from filling up our mountains and spoiling a great sport, if any untrained couch potato can ascend effortlessly? I may be overdramatizing things, but think of how gondolas and mass downhill-skiing have changed the atmosphere of resorts and even the shape of mountains...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmonkey View Post
    Just saw this in another thread-

    I am located in Switzerland, a mountainous paradise for MTBs, and I am seeing more and more people riding e-MTBs. My worry is that, over time, this will lead to trail-biking becoming a mass recreation, like downhill skiing, where thousands of unfit people compete acrimoniously for slope space. In the skiing dept. you can avoid the masses by going ski-touring which requires deep-snow skills and considerable endurance. But what will prevent the masses from filling up our mountains and spoiling a great sport, if any untrained couch potato can ascend effortlessly? I may be overdramatizing things, but think of how gondolas and mass downhill-skiing have changed the atmosphere of resorts and even the shape of mountains...
    I agree to a certain extent. It takes a lot more skill than being physically fit to maneuver technical terrain and, sometimes, simply ride down a hill.

    For example:
    electric bikes on wa trails?-1053496_10201121274941223_1451219624_o.jpg
    Having an e-bike doesn't automatically make you a talented rider. There are plenty of people who are in great shape that put out massive wattage with their leg muscles but suuuuuuuuuuuuck at riding.

    I can see relatively smooth trails, paths, and single tracks being populated more but not by much.

    My suggestion to those who are worried about e-bikes is to actually ride one on a trail and see how handicapped they really are.

    I foresee most people who assume they're not gonna have to pedal or maneuver the bike around underneath them buying a very expensive paper weight they ride maybe a few times before losing interest. You already see a ton of "like new" high end mountain bikes on craigslist from people who dive head first into the sport thinking it's going to be easier than running.

    Anyhow, just live and let live. Interpretation of the law is going to be up to the individuals enforcing them. If you run into a nice park ranger and aren't riding like a jerk, anyone riding an e-bike should be fine.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  48. #48
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    Hey guys,
    I don't like doors that open for me or sinks that turn on for me or soap dispenser that squirt my soap, or toilets that flush for me, of head lights that turn off for me, and why would I want a bike that pedals for me. If you're not pedaling you're not riding, and if you have a motorized cycle stay off the non motorized trails. Is there a place for them, sure, the technology is just going to get better. Laziness fuels ideas and inventions.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Moody View Post
    Hey guys,
    I don't like doors that open for me or sinks that turn on for me or soap dispenser that squirt my soap, or toilets that flush for me, of head lights that turn off for me, and why would I want a bike that pedals for me. If you're not pedaling you're not riding, and if you have a motorized cycle stay off the non motorized trails. Is there a place for them, sure, the technology is just going to get better. Laziness fuels ideas and inventions.
    Not all mountain e-bikes have throttles and allow you to ride without pedaling. Actually, the majority commercial e-bikes that are available are pedal assist only.

    As I've stated earlier. Legal e-bikes do require quite a bit of pedaling to actually travel at a decent speed. For the novice rider, they're still going to be slower than your average weekend warrior. Those with decent riding experience will feel like an incredible athlete or like they're juicing and can potentially ride faster than strictly pedal power.

    It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to designate a separate area for e-bikes that aren't traveling any faster than conventional bikes, don't cause any more trail damage, and don't make any sound or generate pollutants during operation.

    This thread was originally started with mention of the Stealth Bomber e-bike, which by federal definition is not an e-bike at all. A better example of what we're likely to see on our trails is this bike:

    The Haibike XDuroRX29 Electric Mountain Bike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog

    Giant and Trek also have jumped on the e-mountain-bike bandwagon in Europe:

    E-Bikes - Giant Fahrräder | Deutschland

    Powerfly+ - Trek Bicycle

    It's only a matter of time before they bring them over here.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyungjae View Post
    Not all mountain e-bikes have throttles and allow you to ride without pedaling. Actually, the majority commercial e-bikes that are available are pedal assist only.

    As I've stated earlier. Legal e-bikes do require quite a bit of pedaling to actually travel at a decent speed. For the novice rider, they're still going to be slower than your average weekend warrior. Those with decent riding experience will feel like an incredible athlete or like they're juicing and can potentially ride faster than strictly pedal power.

    It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to designate a separate area for e-bikes that aren't traveling any faster than conventional bikes, don't cause any more trail damage, and don't make any sound or generate pollutants during operation.

    This thread was originally started with mention of the Stealth Bomber e-bike, which by federal definition is not an e-bike at all. A better example of what we're likely to see on our trails is this bike:

    The Haibike XDuroRX29 Electric Mountain Bike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog

    Giant and Trek also have jumped on the e-mountain-bike bandwagon in Europe:

    E-Bikes - Giant Fahrräder | Deutschland

    Powerfly+ - Trek Bicycle

    It's only a matter of time before they bring them over here.
    Right on man. I have been researching these bikes myself and I don't understand all the animosity. Chalk it up to ignorance I suppose. I've been mt biking for 20+ years and I enjoy pedaling big epics, shuttling with friends and using the lifts at Whistler etc... As I get older I see pedal assist as a good option for getting out in the backcountry or as an alternative to shuttling. Sorry if you don't like it but the technology is only going to get more refined and I don't see it going away anytime soon. I look forward to seeing where it leads....

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    i started this because i was seeing on my local trail big signs posted : reward for pics or name of the person riding the electric bike on the trail: and others with no e bikes allowed. i just picked the bomber cause i think it was the first one i saw when i goggled electric bikes. i was looking at something i could ride to work that would help my up the steep hills by my house. i think the bomber is cool and all the olny place that i have been where i could see needing it would be tiger with the climb at the front and the long downhill back down.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrosey View Post
    i started this because i was seeing on my local trail big signs posted : reward for pics or name of the person riding the electric bike on the trail: and others with no e bikes allowed. i just picked the bomber cause i think it was the first one i saw when i goggled electric bikes. i was looking at something i could ride to work that would help my up the steep hills by my house. i think the bomber is cool and all the olny place that i have been where i could see needing it would be tiger with the climb at the front and the long downhill back down.
    Local and State Laws, how they are enforced (or lack of enforcement), will really determine whether or not you can share trails with mountain bikes. If those signs posted on the trails have been put up by the local law enforcement, it's probably a good idea not to be mistaken for that other guy on an e-bike. He probably rode like a jacka$$ and probably hurt someone. Most official signs usually cite some sort of law or municipal code at the bottom if there is a clear restriction for "motorized vehicles" or "motorized bicycles."

    One thing is more certain, if it is federal land including, but not limited to a National Park, so long as the bike falls under the legal definition of an e-bike, it can go anywhere a regular bike can go. Of course law enforcement, such as Park Rangers, seldom actually know the laws and may cite you anyway.

    Anyhow, if you're going to be doing street riding, there are other options out there that are far cheaper than the Bomber. Though not electric, this is a good example.

    Motopeds by Moto Fusion ? Kickstarter

    However, if you store your bike indoors, then electric is the way to go.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  53. #53
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    I'm skeptical about the wisdom of using Marzocchi mtb parts on that Motoped. I doubt they were designed for the extra weight of the engine, frame and gas, not to mention the speed. Same for the brakes.
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    FWIW the appeal of an e-assisted commuter rig is primarily the zero emissions aspect. For real. I absolutely refuse to take a job that requires that I sit in my car alone in traffic. NFW. Won't do it.

    But the range of potential jobs increases somewhat with the access an e-bike can afford. (I currently pedal 15 mi one way for work.) I'm totally fine being "that guy" in the bike cage. Beats being a fat ass in the parking lot.

    Like scotteric I am also intrigued by the possibility of an e-MTB for big backcountry rides of 30+ miles. I don't think the Stealth Bomber (the name is horrible too btw) is what I want. Something lighter and less of an e-moto.
    Eat. Ride. Sleep. Repeat

  55. #55
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    The places you can legally ride an e-bike, I'd rather just ride a dirt bike.
    Even if you could rip up Corral Pass pretty quick, I wouldn't really want to descend any of those trails on a 50-60lb "bike".
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

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    There's a big old debate going on Pinkbike now about this very subject. Tempers are flaring! There definitely needs to be a discussion but I don't see why people need to have a "holier than thou" attitude about it. The technology is here and I believe more older mt bikers are going to start considering e-bikes as an option to allow them to still get out in the woods and have fun because for a lot of people that's why we do this, not to beat someone else's Strava time..............

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotteric View Post
    There's a big old debate going on Pinkbike now about this very subject. Tempers are flaring! There definitely needs to be a discussion but I don't see why people need to have a "holier than thou" attitude about it. The technology is here and I believe more older mt bikers are going to start considering e-bikes as an option to allow them to still get out in the woods and have fun because for a lot of people that's why we do this, not to beat someone else's Strava time..............
    Not sure what you consider "older", but I'm 52 and not uber-fit. Believe me, I could use all the help there is, but there's no way in hell I'd be riding an e-bike on MTB trails. Non-motorized means non-motorized.
    Am I holier-than-thou? I don't think so. Ride 'em all you want on MX courses.

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    maybe thats why people dont want them cause of the strava times. I hate to say it but there going to be on our trails whether we like it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrosey View Post
    maybe thats why people dont want them cause of the strava times. I hate to say it but there going to be on our trails whether we like it or not.
    I ride motos and mtb, but believe me I am going to call out anyone riding an e bike on an unmotorized trail. the REAL holier than thou douchebags are those who feel they can disobey the rules by riding motorized vehicles on trails which grassroots organizations work hard to open, keep open and maintain. How the heck are the other user groups going to react to these things on multi use trails? a majority already hate bikes. There's no grey area on this matter, there's already too much at stake to discuss it further.
    if you see one out there where they shouldn't be(I havent yet), tell them to unclip the battery and pedal out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic reducer View Post
    I ride motos and mtb, but believe me I am going to call out anyone riding an e bike on an unmotorized trail. the REAL holier than thou douchebags are those who feel they can disobey the rules by riding motorized vehicles on trails which grassroots organizations work hard to open, keep open and maintain. How the heck are the other user groups going to react to these things on multi use trails? a majority already hate bikes. There's no grey area on this matter, there's already too much at stake to discuss it further.
    if you see one out there where they shouldn't be(I havent yet), tell them to unclip the battery and pedal out.
    they will prob react the same waythey react now, i bet most wont know its a eletric bike most will see it as a nother god damn mountainbiker thats ruining my nature walk destroying the trails and scaring the fish.
    it needs to be discussed before its to late and we lose trails. personally im looking at one for commutinng to work not for trail riding as of yet.

    and then there is this from skyungjae: One thing is more certain, if it is federal land including, but not limited to a National Park, so long as the bike falls under the legal definition of an e-bike, it can go anywhere a regular bike can go. Of course law enforcement, such as Park Rangers, seldom actually know the laws and may cite you anyway

    ​So there allowing it and im sure its a matter of time before it becomes a state thing.

  61. #61
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    From National Park Service reference manual #41:

    Motor Vehicle: Any vehicle that is self-propelled, including any vehicle that is propelled by electric power but not operated on rails or upon water. This includes, but is not limited to cars, trucks, all-terrain vehicles (ATV) and motorcycles. (See 36 CFR 1.4, Definitions).

    Motorized Equipment: Any machine that applies force by transferring energy from a motor, engine, or other non-living power source. This includes, but is not limited to, such machines as aircraft, drones, snowmobiles, motorboats, chainsaws, weed whackers, power drills, power saws, generators, compressors, windmills or turbines, and snow or leaf blowers. "Motorized equipment" does not include shavers, wrist watches, clocks, flashlights, cameras, camping stoves, solar panels, batteries, explosives, Geiger counters, cellular telephones, portable electronic media devices, radio receivers or transmitters, GPS units, or other similar small, battery-powered, hand-carried personal camping equipment.

    Therefore: No motorized vehicles means no e-bikes. Just a matter of time before the mountain e-bike business plan goes south.

    Like was stated above... The places you can legally ride an e-bike, I'd rather just ride a dirt bike.
    - Be Someone

  62. #62
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    They said that about the electric car too. Yet i see more and more every day.

  63. #63
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    But electric cars are not illegal to drive on the road!

    Until they get the battery/motor weight down so it isn't a 20lb+ penalty, I doubt you will see many on the trails. I think the bigger issue will be on paved trails. my LBS gets various e-bike demo bikes in all the time and they are a lot of fun to cruise around on. I could see using one to commute to work but not trail riding.
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

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    That is true you can drive a electric car but the push back from the motoring public as well as company's that make non electric cars were trying to and are still trying to stop the electric car for being sold and driven. Not much different here, just takes that voice or voices to get something changed. We see it with trail closures and losing riding areas as well as new areas opening to us by showing we can take care of the land and will help improve the land. I personally think that when they start selling it at the local bike shop is when it will change. My local has fat bikes now cause there all the craze, and I'm seeing it in mountain bike mags about the electric bike. And when mags and website start getting behind something you know the rest. Enduro anyone?

  65. #65
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    ABC... Always Be Closing.

    If you pull this off, people will be saying, "Wow, that mrosey. He could sell ketchup popsicles to a women in white gloves."
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    Lmao!!!
    I don't have a electric bike nor do I see myself getting one anytime soon, just wanted to put it out there and get a discussion going about it. Not I'm going to lead the charge to get them legalized. just there becoming a big thing like fat bikes. Truthfully I'm all about let's share the outdoors with whoever and electronic bikes are a Grey area as to where you can ride them. The riders don't want to use them on motor trails cause of motor bikes and rooster tails noise bla bla bla, and we don't want them on trails for what? The law says no? I don't think they make tons of noise like a motorcycle does. Do they scare fishes?

    P's I think when I meet you guys on the trails I won't say I'm mosey, don't want to get beat up my tires flattened and my shoes took.

  67. #67
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    I'll tell you what... You can get a good look at a bull by sticking your head up the butchers a$$, but wouldn't you rather take his word for it?

    It's in the definition of "M...O...T...O...R V...E...H...I...C...L...E".
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    Tommy Boy - may he rest in peace.

    I am totally against them on non-motorized trails - muscle powered recreation is a very easy concept to grasp. However enforcement will be incredibly difficult (except for peer pressure).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Tommy Boy - may he rest in peace.

    I am totally against them on non-motorized trails - muscle powered recreation is a very easy concept to grasp. However enforcement will be incredibly difficult (except for peer pressure).
    Yeah we tried that with suspension back in the 90's, but failed. People are lazy and have poor skills, so anything that makes a sport easier is bound to be a hit with the public. E-bikes are coming to mtb, they are already on all the rail-trails, bike paths, etc.

    Don't practice to be better, buy to be better. It's the American way! And we've exported it to the world...

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    Pay to win!

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    >Yeah we tried that with suspension back in the 90's, but failed.

    Hmmmm...I don't remember that effort. I remember the normal grousing about new technology (including me) but I don't remember anyone every actually saying they shouldn't be allowed on the trails.

    >People are lazy and have poor skills, so anything that makes a sport easier is bound to be a hit with the public.

    Another way to look at it is, if you are highly awesome and skilled, these same tools make you even more awesome. Its like when people say 29'ers are for the proverbial dentist because they "make the trail easier" that is totally neglecting that if they make the trail easier for hte beginner, then they will supercharge the advanced rider.

    Anyway those points aren't important, and may even be interpreted as me supporting new technology on the trail and I guess they do up to the point of motors, which I reject. If our bikes eventually have 30" wheels and weigh 8 lbs and the gears and suspension shift around automatically, I would probably be happy with that. But once its powered, its a motorized vehicle and then we may as well ride motorcycles, e or otherwise.
    A Red Line ! (and not the O.... never mind)

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    Let me put a different angle on this issue. I've been mtbing for years competing in Enduro events for the past 16 months. Up to 2months ago I would have never considered an electric assist bike of any kind. But now I'm facing major surgery on my leg and could be off the trails for many months.

    Having seen this video of Nico using the new Lapierre ebike to get himself back on the bike after knee surgery last year I am now seriously considering getting one of these machines. It could be the difference in spending 3-6month less off the trails.

    Nico Vouilloz is Back - Overvolt Lapierre - YouTube

    This bike has pedal assist so it does no more damage to the trails than any standard FS bike.

  73. #73
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    Have you thought about what will happen if you crash or brake down in the backcountry with a leg that's not ready for it.

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    electric bikes on wa trails?

    No different than if you were to crash in the back country and hurt your leg.

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    As I have stated in several of the previous threads on this topic, I am open to assist type bikes for the disabled that have strict weight limits (40lbs, ok, 80lb, no way) and limit total power output to no more than that of a strong rider.

    The physical footprint of a mountain bike is smaller than that of a boot or shoe, and it can generate a much higher level of horizontal force during braking than a hiker. A biker has a higher impact on a trail than a hiker, and this is taken into consideration when multi-use trails are built and maintained.

    If we can get a class of ebikes into the realm of impact of the typical pedal powered bike, I greatly support their admittance on multi-use trails for persons with disabilities that greatly reduce their pedaling strength. They need to greatly eliminate the noise, though. I hit the trails to see and hear nature while testing my skill, not to listen to a motor.

    There should be no other exceptions. If you are not strong enough to pedal a trail due to no medical conditions, then you need to do what everyone else does and ride, ride, ride until you can, or walk the steep sections, or take lots of breaks, or whatever.

    There really is no excuse that can be made outside of a medical condition that is nothing more than laziness. I spent maybe eight minutes climbing several hundred feet of trail that I could barely keep the front wheel planted, with my 11yo son on Saturday, and I am somewhere around 400lbs. Muscles scream for mercy and knees hurt by the end, but I've got no need for motors.

    I predict an evenutuality of either no motorized bikes being permitted except on trails for motorized vehicles, or limited trail use, more so than pedal bikes. I think e-bikers face the same uphill battle we face, and they will have to work harder to meet the impact requirements. I suspect we will see a lot of illegal trail riding in the coming years. I personally will try to imform without being abrasive, while simultaneously reporting any abuses the same as I would for a biker or hiker (I avoid all horse areas for safety concerns).

    I wish the ebikers luck, and I hope they consider the motorized trails because there is a lot of fantastic riding on those trails and roads, even for the lightly powered pedal versions, where they can rip much harder that on the multi-use trails.

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    Its a lot different, if your leg isn't recovered enough to ride a regular bike you could do damage that can't be fixed. But don't take my word for it ask your doctor what he/she thinks.

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    > I am now seriously considering getting one of these machines. It could be the >difference in spending 3-6month less off the trails.

    I"m all for it !!

    As long as you ride on roads and open to motorized trails.

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