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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Duthie Parking - tickets and towing on the way

    If you can't find a spot in the park parking lot, park at the school. If you park on the street in the neighborhood, you may soon be ticketed or towed:


    City of Sammamish – Parking on Trossachs: The group unanimously has concerns with the vast amount of outsiders parking on Trossachs Blvd. for the Duthie Hill Bike Park. Many are frustrated. Over the summer, many calls and emails came into the Management office regarding this dilemma. Since the roads are public, the Association has been recommending owners to contact City of Sammamish.
    The Association wants to take a proactive stand on this issue. With this, we will start up a group to schedule a City Council Meeting and voice the concern, especially with the safety issue this causes. If you are interested in being a part of this effort, please let the office know.
    Management will be coordinate with a Towing Company to place signage appropriately at the parking area near the tennis courts, advising non-residents that this is private parking and they can be towed. There was also discussion of issuing parking stickers to residents, but this would be a last option due to control.


    Fortunately, the school is only about 50 yards further down the road. Spread the word.
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  2. #2
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    Really seems like this will be a non-issue once the new parking lot is put in.

    But in the meantime, i don't understand the mentality of a biker how can't pedal a couple more blocks to park at the school. One you're on a bike, so you can pedal, it's not a big deal. And second, you've got a bike rack, so all these rich influential neighbors start getting a cork up their collective butts when it comes to viewing mt. bikers. As a mt. biker you have the right to be an *******, but you really should understand that we as a group are a tiny vulnerable group, and there are bigger groups with larger *******s.

    Anyways, we wrap up the construction of the park completely in June, then they move on to building the parking lot. Hopefully the lot is large enough so all the parking issues simply go away, but like so many thorns in the side, these little things have a tendency to fester.
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  3. #3
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    Bigger Picture

    My kid really enjoyed Dirt Riders.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Duthie Parking - tickets and towing on the way-img_0699.jpg  

    Last edited by r1de; 02-04-2012 at 10:25 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Now BP help me on this one.....

    Parking during school hours as I have the occasional Fridays off. Nice open spot with no one playing tennis on the Blvd. or take up one of the parents spots picking up their kiddo? Current lot at Duthie is/was full. Yesterday for the first time I chose to park on the street.

    Yeah, I know I should ride from home but sometimes time and daylight are limited.

    How's the mouth/teeth?

    John

  5. #5
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    Hah, "outsiders".

    How very Eastside of them.

  6. #6
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    Sent you a PM instead.
    Last edited by r1de; 02-04-2012 at 10:26 PM.
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  7. #7
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    I almost always park on the blvd along the curb, preferring there to the school lot. However, as a former roadie I can relate to potential safety issue w/ often so many MTBers cars in the bike. No biggee, I was not that interested in going to D anymore, for a # of reasons. Thanks R1de for the post.
    Ride ON!
    BMXer since '66, MTBer since '86, longtime roadie ... "Life is a Circle"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1de View Post
    1. Courtesy should be extended to neighbors of any bike park or trail system, irrespective of their apparent (real or perceived) affluence.
    Yah i would say real... it's all relative, but c'mon we're not talking a neighborhood in Skyway or Orting here.

    You are absolutely correct as far as the courtesy though. It just would be a complete drag to not be able to plan a childs graduation party or even a Superbowl party at your house for fear all your street parking will be taken up from bikers.

    Quote Originally Posted by r1de View Post
    1. My understanding is that the new parking lot will be considerably more remote than the current one - or even the school. I'm less optimistic that it will come soon enough or be attractive enough to solve this problem on its own.
    Really i heard that they're looking at the triangular lot just a few hundred yards West of the South access gate, Grand Ridge TH. i dunno, maybe you know something i don't. i do know the entire chunk just East of the South access gate was left alone in anticipation for a parking lot. One thing i do know is there is going to be a parking lot in addition to the one that currently exists. And i have faith that the County understands and will address the issue. Guess we'll all find out soon enough one way or the other.

    But if this community were to understand that there is a solution being lined out, then perhaps they won't go to any undue measure that would waste time for them. For in a year or two things might be in a better spot.


    Quote Originally Posted by r1de View Post
    1. Most significantly... as you and many of the "political insiders"(?) know,
    Actually you're the political insider dude. You have a title. i don't, never have had, and likely never will. i just go to meetings, and have conversations with folk.
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  9. #9
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    I never park there, but can someone explain how and why that would be considered "private" parking? Aren't they city streets?

    Reminds me of the city streets in downtown Issaquah that you can be ticketed for driving on if you don't live there. Even if you own one of the houses.

  10. #10
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    The parking situation is not going to be solved overnight

    Unfortunately the parking situation at Duthie is going to be solved at the speed of government; a speed which operates at a snails pace.

    Furthermore you have a park managed at the county level and 3 cities (Issaquah, Sammamish, and Fall City) surrounding it. It will take a lot more patience by park users until the county actually breaks ground on a new parking lot. And that process can significantly slow further if the cities nearby choose to not cooperate with the county or complaints from nearby properties owners trigger additional levels of review/scrutiny.

    Duthie has already lost the use of Endeavor Elementary as a supplemental parking lot. The trend of the creation of unsanctioned park entry points across private property will only further complicate the process.

    The issue of adequate parking was flagged at the very beginning of the project. If originally the issue of parking had to be addressed starting back in 2009 it is likely none of what currently exists out at Duthie would have been allowed to be started.

    Gees look at the development pace of the Issaquah Highland Bike Park. It will probably be another 1 or 2 years (if ever) before a shovel is allowed to be stuck into the dirt and that land was donated to the city of Issaquah. And if you guessed that the issue of adequate parking for that project is one of the major drag facts, you would be correct.

    I would like to thank King County for allowing the project to progress in the matter it has and I will do what I can to keep the peace with the local neighbors until the project is fully complete (including the parklot and the regional trail connector).
    The quiver: 2010 Santa Cruz Nomad, 2011 Specialized Demo II, 2011 Canfield Brothers Yelli Screamy.

  11. #11
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    You aren't living if you aren't complaining

    Seriously? Parking on a public street, where there is more than enough room for cars, has to be a major issue for the neighborhood. I will say that the days that I've been at Duthie later in the day, there are way more people on the street than in the school. Part of the problem with the school lot is the huge berm covers the cars, which makes me worry about someone breaking into my car. But that is where I park because that's where we've been asked to park. No point in ruffling feathers, even those super sensitive feather located near the rear of the duck.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    Unfortunately the parking situation at Duthie is going to be solved at the speed of government; a speed which operates at a snails pace.
    $1 for over/under 2 years break ground. i'll take the under.


    Quote Originally Posted by BallardFoodie View Post
    Seriously?
    Don't be bent that you are an "outsider", just roll with it.
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  13. #13
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    Let me start with the fact that I do park at the school if I have to and encourage others to do the same, but this really bothers me.

    Since the roads are public
    Legally, this isn't a valid. If they towed cars for being legally parked on a public road I would have a major problem. By the way, I live on the "eastside."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skookum View Post
    As a mt. biker you have the right to be an *******, but you really should understand that we as a group are a tiny vulnerable group, and there are bigger groups with larger *******s.
    That's really helpful.

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    If I lived in the neighborhood, I would be upset with all the cars. I go through there all the time on weekends and like others have said, it isn't difficult to go another few hundred yards up the road and park in the lot. The cars parked on the road are parked in bike lanes. There are tons of kids with bikes and these cars are forcing them to ride around the cars into the path of cars. That alone would be enough to make some residents very upset.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenobonn View Post
    helpful.
    Micro-critique, get off my tip Kenny.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skookum View Post
    Micro-critique, get off my tip Kenny.
    Absolutely, I''m sure you need to exercise your rights to be an *******. BTW, my name is Ken, not Kenny.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenobonn View Post
    Absolutely, I''m sure you need to exercise your rights to be an *******. BTW, my name is Ken, not Kenny.
    Thanks Kenny, be sure to wear your helmet.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skookum View Post
    Really i heard that they're looking at the triangular lot just a few hundred yards West of the South access gate, Grand Ridge TH. i dunno, maybe you know something i don't. i do know the entire chunk just East of the South access gate was left alone in anticipation for a parking lot. One thing i do know is there is going to be a parking lot in addition to the one that currently exists. And i have faith that the County understands and will address the issue. Guess we'll all find out soon enough one way or the other.
    Looks like you are now the holder of the title ... "duthie-pedia"
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  20. #20
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    Probably "cheaper" for some to just pay their 75 Tokul bucks and ride in relative solitude without parking issues considering all the Duthie drama.

  21. #21
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    any options to build up some freeride trails at Tokul?

  22. #22
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    Besides the ones that are maybe already out there? Options are always around everywhere if the risks are worth it.

    Seriously though, people need to realize there are other places to ride and quit complaining like it's the only game in town and there always has to be a spot for them in the parking lot at any given time they feel like riding there.

    Take the high road peoples and park where requested, go at off peak hours, or expect not to find a spot in the lot at 10 on a sunny saturday morning. And, the one trick pony FR/DH people need to spread their wings and ride the exits or places they can easily find out about through friends and aquaintances.

    There are other places to ride, what ever style is preferred.Probably get just as tired saying it as you all get hearing it....

  23. #23
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    The exits have some fun trails, i worry sometimes about the risk of getting a ticket. it would be nice to have a few more local legal options. lots of great trails around more old school xc and am riding!

    I-5 Colonnade is empty and a great place to right when it's wet out!

  24. #24
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    Have there been any sightings of any type of enforcement at Tokul yet?

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    Two that were just warnings by the F & W folks. Back to the Duthie parking thread....

  26. #26
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    I can 100% empathize with the neighbors. Our house in Seattle is next to a park and we've got pop warner football practice 4 days a week and often games on weekends. The lack of courtesy by many of the "parents" was insane. Legal or not, it really made our neighborhood miserable during the Fall. The Football league did absolutely nothing to curb it despite a middle school parking lot directly next to the field.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    Looks like you are now the holder of the title ... "duthie-pedia"
    The only reason i know anything is our trail is getting close enough to the clearing where i can hear you and others talking about this stuff..
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  28. #28
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    So you are staying you are the duthie-twitter?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    So you are staying you are the duthie-twitter?
    i suppose i had that one comin.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    I can 100% empathize with the neighbors. Our house in Seattle is next to a park and we've got pop warner football practice 4 days a week and often games on weekends. The lack of courtesy by many of the "parents" was insane. Legal or not, it really made our neighborhood miserable during the Fall. The Football league did absolutely nothing to curb it despite a middle school parking lot directly next to the field.
    +1 to this, as someone who's lived in many high-traffic seattle areas. i do get annoyed when i drive in, the duthie lot is full and i have to find another option. but at the end of the day, it's really just an inconvenience that accounts for less than .01% of what i remember from that day's ride.

    btw, last time i rode duthie, i parked at the school. when i returned to my car, after the ride, there was a cop sitting square in the middle of the parking lot. he didn't do anything as i loaded up my bike, but it struck me as odd. are we not allowed to park at the school anymore? i haven't been keeping up on the forums for the past couple of months, so i apologize if the question sounds ignorant.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikey_korean View Post
    btw, last time i rode duthie, i parked at the school. when i returned to my car, after the ride, there was a cop sitting square in the middle of the parking lot. he didn't do anything as i loaded up my bike, but it struck me as odd. are we not allowed to park at the school anymore? i haven't been keeping up on the forums for the past couple of months, so i apologize if the question sounds ignorant.
    There were a few break-in's last year. I hope he is just showing a presence while doing paperwork. I worry a bit when I return and I am the only one in the lot, good thing nothing really of value in my car.
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  32. #32
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    I'm completely confused. There's a 6 mile trail that leads straight to Duthie, never has parking issues, and is actually enjoyable to ride.

    I'll let you guys worry about finding ways to park closer so you can ride your bike LESS, while I park down in Issy and ride up Grand Ridge. We'll see who has more fun on the way in.

  33. #33
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    Actually 5 of the 10 times i've ridden at Duthie i've accessed it from Issaquah. It's not really as enjoyable as you make it out to be...

    i bring my bike whilst doing trail work maybe 1 out of 5 times i'm there, and it's almost never to ride. You bring a bike to test the line, which is literally 5 minutes of riding, or to ride to the fetch something, or ride to the parking lot to use the sani-can.

    In fact i think trail builders have way more of a reason to complain with bathroom facilities being so far away. Some days i have to literally drop what i'm doing at Deuces then walk a mile to drop a deuce.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnduroDoug View Post
    I'm completely confused. There's a 6 mile trail that leads straight to Duthie, never has parking issues, and is actually enjoyable to ride.
    I am not sure which Issaquah parking area you are referring too. But at the last Issaquah Parks Department oversite meeting, the commissioner who also happened to be also from the Issaquah Highlands Neighborhood association was stating a complaint about all the "on-street" parking around center park as a result of both the ballfields as well as "trail traffic to duthie hill park".

    Now the last part is likely BS since it was Issaquah Parks which allowed 3 additional multi-use fields to be constructed without adequate parking in the first place. The bottom-line is "on-street" by non-residents is just a hot button issue for the Eastside neighborhoods in general. This is issue is one of several being used to stall the Highlands Bike Park park project.
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  35. #35
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    On a related subject who owns the gravel parking lot on Sunset at Exit 18?
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  36. #36
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    I think WSDOT owns that parcel (KC parcel viewer is no help on the subject)
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  37. #37
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    One fix to the parking shortage - ride at night. Haven't run into anybody after 9PM and had the parking lot all to myself.

  38. #38
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    Latest update

    Meeting notes from the Town Hall Meeting last Tuesday, forwarded to me. I did not attend this meeting in person, so I cannot comment beyond reposting this information as an FYI.

    For what it's worth, I recognize the volatility of this subject. On the one hand, there is a perception of intrusion, and on the other hand there is a perception of exclusion. IMO it equates to respect either way. I'm hoping to avoid further stoking those fires here - I'm just trying to provide information to the purpose of making things easier for anybody involved.

    Thanks.

    Introductions

    [...]

    City of Sammamish - Steven Chen, Traffic Engineer & Jessica Sullivan, Administrative Sergeant (Mayor Tom Odell was unable to attend due to a health issue)

    King County - Butch Lovelace, Project Manager Parks Division

    Trossachs Residents - There were approximately 65 Trossachs owners in attendance.

    Duthie Hill Bike Park Parking

    Butch Lovelace stated the County is in the final stages of securing easements in an area very close to the Duthie Hill Bike Park trail. This portion of land will be paved and will accommodate approximately 75 vehicles for parking. The project will begin the end of the year and should be completed by next summer.

    This summer will be another challenging summer with the Duthie Hill Bike enthusiasts parking in Trossachs. The County will mail out a flyer to the numerous biking groups they are aware of asking them to "Please respect the Trossachs neighborhood. Please park at the overflow parking area at Cascade Elementary at on Trossachs Blvd. Remember to pick up your trash". Additionally, Butch will have a King County crew member swing by occasionally on weekends to place these flyers on the car windows for those parked along Trossachs Blvd. We are hopeful this will help with the problem we will encounter which was most prevalent last summer.

    Trossachs is a public road community. The only exceptions are the small parking area by the school at Tennis Court Park, and Gazebo Park, between Div. 2 and 4.

    Butch stated that increased signage and a welcome sign at the entry stating "Welcome to Trossachs. Please respect our neighborhood" may be something the HOA might want to consider.

    Other conversations on this topic included:

    - Assign Parking Stickers to Homeowners - This is an added cost, not only for the stickers, but management of the stickers. Again, a homeowner's guest may park in one of the two parks without a sticker and still risk the possibility of being towed.

    - Towing: Ibsen Towing has installed towing signs at Tennis Court Park and Gazebo Park.

    - Striping - Some of the striping gives the impression it is for a bike path vs. for a car. It tends to "thin out" as it goes along. Steven Chen made note of this.

    - 22nd Street Sign - It was commented this sign makes no sense. It is not legal to park in a 3' section. Steven Chen made note of this.
    --
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  39. #39
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    Good for Butch, that dude is a hero in my book...

    Sounds to me if we can wade through another summer of this parking fiasco, and if people lean towards being courteous, by Summer 2013 everything will be cool.

    75 cars along with the fifteen at the current spot. 90 cars, that'll look alot better...
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  40. #40
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    I think we need a plan for this summer. With all the amazing building at Duthie this winter, we're headed for a parking CLUSTER this summer. I predict total parking mayhem. Frustrated neighbors could impact future projects (not a disparaging comment on the good folks who live in those neighborhoods). By plan, I mean: flyers with maps to legal parking, chalked lines in the existing lot to maximize number of cars, self policing, leverage the Duthie Facebook page, etc.

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch F. Fletch View Post
    Frustrated neighbors could impact future projects
    Yep, the neighbors who are fighting the Redmond dirt jump project are using Duthie's parking problem as an example (even though I think it's a ridiculous argument in their case).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch F. Fletch View Post
    I think we need a plan for this summer.
    I started kicking this around last year and never got it off the ground. My fault... just didn't have time. Is there someone out there who: 1) lives close by, 2) rides at Duthie and/or Gd Ridge a lot, 3) wants to make an awesome contribution to Mt Biking?

    If so, we really need someone to lead a team of local Duthie / Gd Ridge riders / caretakers / volunteers to work directly with King County Parks to do exactly what Fletch is saying... develop a plan this Spring and then implement it this summer. Shoot me an email: mwestra at evergreenmtb dot org. I'll have to hook you up directly with KC Parks and step out of the loop.

  42. #42
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    Mike, I'll shoot you a mail -- I'm interested, passionate and want to do this -- need to gauge time commitment before I say yes. Stay tuned.

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    I added parking info the the WTA Grand Ridge page. This is not just a Duthie problem.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch F. Fletch View Post
    Mike, I'll shoot you a mail -- I'm interested, passionate and want to do this -- need to gauge time commitment before I say yes. Stay tuned.
    Good luck if you take this on. i do think that if the message is brought out in a good way, that a majority of folk will understand all the angles and comply.

    Avoid words like "outsiders".
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  45. #45
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    *sigh*

    I have an answer. Yeah, I've said it before. Ride on the off hours if you just have to ride there. Or, just ride somewhere else....

    We're all allowed you know....

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    Only if you want to make what is already tenuous...

    ...even worse.

    I'd suggest there couldn't be a worse time to consider building at Tokul, not to mention it's actively being logged right now and Evergreen is working hard to build good relationships with the landowners (and there is self-destructive infighting because of some "new" selfish and/or ignorant building of a trail that exits directly onto an existing horse trail-- Good God).

    Sometimes it's best to be happy with what you have lest you lose it. I imagine after the logging the existing trails may somehow be brought back, and if we continue the good work of getting along with the horse folks and landowners who knows? Maybe things will improve and/or we'll be allowed to build. Hell, maybe we'll be able to ride there without a permit.

    It's a marathon, not a sprint, and we have to learn to share or we'll have nothing.

    My two cents.

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_hood View Post
    any options to build up some freeride trails at Tokul?
    I'll be along... eventually.

  47. #47
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    I am not sure in what fashion I can help. But keep me in the loop. Maybe you need a PR guy in a suit? Actually, I hate suits, but sometimes I can reason with people well.
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
    Washington, Oregon, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming

  48. #48
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    Tokul Public Service Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_hood View Post
    any options to build up some freeride trails at Tokul?
    There's a whole lotta sh*testorm going down at Tokul right now. With *active* logging -- as in, Flowtron and LF may already be gone, and Hancock still figuring out the permit thing, we have to keep it on the serious DL out there for now.

    For anyone thinking about doing any renegade building out there, just don't do it. Pissing off Hancock right now is guaranteed to f-it permanently for everyone.

    If you're really interested in helping out and willing to put in the time, PM me and I might know a guy.

  49. #49
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    Enjoyable means different things to different people...

    ...I think that 6 mile trail is not enjoyable at all. As far as I'm concerned it's uphill both ways, and I don't do uphill both ways. I do uphill one way, downhill the other.

    M-

    Quote Originally Posted by EnduroDoug View Post
    I'm completely confused. There's a 6 mile trail that leads straight to Duthie, never has parking issues, and is actually enjoyable to ride.

    I'll let you guys worry about finding ways to park closer so you can ride your bike LESS, while I park down in Issy and ride up Grand Ridge. We'll see who has more fun on the way in.
    I'll be along... eventually.

  50. #50
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    Gotta agree with msylvan on this. I ride GR to Duthie a fair bit, and except when it's really dry, it's a slog. And it sucks way more going "down" to Sunset after sessioning Duthie.

    Don't get me wrong -- it's a great XC-ish route (especially with all the fantastic drainage improvements and, of course, that awesome new bridge); but there's no way that 90% of the FR/park-oriented visitors on slopestyle bikes are ever going to use it as a serious alternative to parking closer.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Don't get me wrong -- it's a great XC-ish route (especially with all the fantastic drainage improvements and, of course, that awesome new bridge)
    It's not really that great of an XC trail really. It's awesome to have the trail open to bikes for sure, it's awesome to have a trail like that so close to the city for some cardiac work. But if you were to put that trail 2 hours outside of Seattle without the connection to Duthie, i can't see it getting much use.

    i think much of the talk about using it for a route is just talk. You really have to build up a fairly good cardio base before thinking about enjoying that particular route.
    ****************************

    Me i look at things in a hopeful forecast. If things work out well with DNR in the future, i would hope that Grand Ridge would be a piece of a larger puzzle. In my minds eye with the work that mt. bikers have done in all aspects, i would hope you could someday ride singletrack from Duthie all the way to Tiger Mt., or heck howzabout Black Diamond? With fun flow trails, DH trails whatever else kinda trails scattered along the way.

    All this stuff really is possible. And to the original poster speaking of bigger picture, we want a world where the next generation will pick up the ball and start running. So this parking issue is just a bump in the road that can make it more of an uphill climb for people pushing behind the scenes.

    i hate to sound like i'm minimizing the problem, but like Borneo i gotta say what i've said a handful of times before. The Duthie parking problem as far as problems go, is a frikkin awesome problem to have. The community is coming out in droves, people are stoked on riding the trails. More than anticipated. 10 years ago the problems were "are we going to lose access to Middle Fork Snoqualmie Trail once and for all" right? The conversation was all about losing more and more. And if you would have asked anybody about legal downhill (freeride) trails, asked them if it was possible, they would have said when pigs fly.

    Construction on Duthie is wrapping up. Hopefully we see more folk helping button things up, people have been and are SUPER busy and need help out there...
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    [QUOTE=Skookum;9096705] i would hope you could someday ride singletrack from Duthie all the way to Tiger Mt., or heck howzabout Black Diamond? With fun flow trails, DH trails whatever else kinda trails scattered along the way.



    I would love to see that

  53. #53
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    Big thanks Fletch and R1de for offering to help put together a parking plan to help avoid a summer parking nightmare.

    R1de, do you remember what the results of the survey were re: riders coming in from the south side (Issy-Fall City Rd) vs. the Boardwalk. I think it was 20% from the south... some of that from Grand Ridge and it's closer to ride in to Duthie that way for Klihanie, Highlands and other neighbors.

    Since the boardwalk, I am seeing the # of riders coming up from Grand Ridge increasing... my SWAG would be 10%.

  54. #54
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    I'll take grand ridge over what most people call "Exercise" any day!


  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I'll take grand ridge over what most people call "Exercise" any day!

    I'm with you FM, but have you ever seen an actual Zumba class?

    Worth going just to watch.

  56. #56
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    Those who hike GR will park anywhere along IFC road, closer to the trail head the better.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I'll take grand ridge over what most people call "Exercise" any day!
    Sure, but if you really want to break it down... Duthie not only get's a fair share of mt. bikers on sled style bikes, but lots of noobs. People NOT coming into mt. biking from other cardio sports. Most common has always been roadies, so Grand Ridge is perfect for newer riders coming from that background. Working near Bootcamp downhill section, i don't see everyone that rides at the park, but it's a popular trail. So i do see a fair share, and i suspect as close to a good cross section of riders that populate the park. i see lots of families, lots of new riders. Hardly a week goes by i don't see Simon running a lesson.

    Msylvan is spot on, Grand Ridge is technically easy, but it rides somewhat like a ridge trail in the backcountry. Up/down/up/down-ride through Duthie-up/down/up/down, has a cumulative 2000' plus elevation change. It's not epic, but it works ya especially when the trails are greasy.

    Lots of the newer riders that frequent Duthie would be well served being introduced to a Fawn Ridge ride (mini Suntop), with a nice easy forest road climb, followed by one long singletrack descent.

    You run folk through Grand Ridge on a slog day, you're likely converting half the new riders back to Zumba.

    i mean if i ride at Duthie more than half the time i'll probably access through Grand Ridge myself. But i haven't been riding for a few months, in my current shape i would have a hard time making it, and certainly wouldn't enjoy it much.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwestra2 View Post
    R1de, do you remember what the results of the survey were re: riders coming in from the south side (Issy-Fall City Rd) vs. the Boardwalk. I think it was 20% from the south... some of that from Grand Ridge and it's closer to ride in to Duthie that way for Klihanie, Highlands and other neighbors.
    This data may be startling, but I can't say that it represents the common-case. It's just data from 1 day on a weekend in April, 2011, so try not to extrapolate too precisely...

    From 11:00am to 1:00pm, we surveyed 146 people. 70 came in via the Duthie Hill parking lot (north), and 76 came in from Grand Ridge (south). Anecdotally, on the day the survey was conducted, there were between 10 and 30 cars parked in the Trossachs neighborhood that appeared to be overflow Duthie parkers, and the Duthie lot was consistently full.

    My own feeling on the distribution is that those numbers are way off normality, but still represent a significant trend. I believe the solid majority of people actually do enter via the north entrance, but the south entrance shouldn't be underestimated.

    Another piece of data we collected from King County during the survey period was the click counter on the north entrance (note that there is no counter on the south entrance). There were 1860 riders (that is hits/2 - to count enter/leave as 1 rider) for the two-week period of 4/9 through 4/23 2011, and 2500 riders for the month of March, 2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by mwestra2 View Post
    Since the boardwalk, I am seeing the # of riders coming up from Grand Ridge increasing... my SWAG would be 10%.
    I believe you; I think it is safe to say that the number will increase because of the boardwalk. I think it is also a safe bet that the number will further increase as the weather transforms the GR tread into a more attractive route (summer through fall).

    Last thought: when the Highlands Bike Park finally kicks off (need to light some fires under some people, I think...), I believe its strategic location relative to Duthie and Grand Ridge - plus its target riding demographic - will have measurable impacts on Duthie & Grand Ridge rider visits.
    --
    -bp

  59. #59
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    Was your survey before or after we lost use of the school parking lot on the south side? I know I always parked up there when it was available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agate View Post
    Was your survey before or after we lost use of the school parking lot on the south side? I know I always parked up there when it was available.
    I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure the Endeavour lot was already closed off. In any case, we did ask those south-entrance people what their point of origin was, and 53% of them originated from downtown Issaquah. I think the remainder was Klahanie (BIG development just south of the south entrance) or Highlands (also BIG development directly connected to Grand Ridge).

    We also put this statement in the report:

    "Note: the boardwalk construction of the bog south of Duthie Hill is not complete and is known as a turnaround point for many riders on the Grand Ridge Trail; therefore, a significant number of riders never made it to the survey point at the south entrance of Duthie Hill Park."
    --
    -bp

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1de View Post
    There were 1860 riders (that is hits/2 - to count enter/leave as 1 rider) for the two-week period of 4/9 through 4/23 2011, and 2500 riders for the month of March, 2011.
    Interesting...

    Yah again from working the park i am not surprised at those numbers. i think May/June would be a peak month for Duthie, weather getting good, other trails not quite in peak condition or snowed in.

    IF they set up counters for both sides, would i be surprised if it hit 10,000? Maybe a little, but by no means would i bet any money against it.

    i see alot of familiar faces at Duthie, but more and more i go, i see less people i know. New riders aplenty. Not that i knew everyone, so my experience is way less scientific, but still it's just so apparent to me.
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