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  1. #1
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    Do you love riding Washington singletrack?


    Did you know there are more than 500,000 mountain bikers in Washington, but only about 2000 are members of Evergreen?

    We're protecting, maintaining, and building new trails statewide - plus doing a whole lot more... But just think what we could do to make Washington a better place to ride if we had 5000, or 10,000 members supporting our work!

    And it starts with you.

    If youíre a current Evergreen member, THANK YOU! Please help spread the word, share this video, and convince your friends to join (we've found holding their bike ransom to be very convincing ).

    If youíre one of the 498,000 who are NOT members, please join!

    Membership costs less than 10 cents a day; and there's more benefits than you can shake a stick at (watch the video above for proof - and a giggle or two).

    If you haven't joined or renewed, what are you waiting for??? Go here now and support the cause Evergreen MTB - Support Us
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
    sustainable trails. rider powered.

  2. #2
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    Evergreenstacy's cute

  3. #3
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    And very animated!

  4. #4
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    And a great rider!

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    I'm in the middle ring.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ser jameson View Post
    Evergreenstacy's cute
    Awwww...All you guys and your nice comments are making my day!
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
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  7. #7
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    Your video captured at least one new (paying) membership. I want to hear about that pulled gluteus maximus of Lisa's though.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    Your video captured at least one new (paying) membership. I want to hear about that pulled gluteus maximus of Lisa's though.
    Yay! Thanks for the support DRSpalding. Yep, that's was quite the impromptu share on Lisa's part, and quite the story. You should ask her about it if you see her.
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
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  9. #9
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    I belonged to the BBTC 20yrs ago during the fragmented and dysfunctional times. Glad things have greatly improved.

    Times have changed with trail building that does not suit my riding style. Leaf blowers are now being used to clean trails. Blows my mind...I have found myself being driven away from Tiger and GR, and gravitating toward my former groups of ponies and dirtbikes and the style of trails I grew up with here in Western Wa.

    I do support Evergreens objectives and I understand (with discussions with Dave S.) about "sustainability". Other user groups have a different definition that works better for my riding style. All the best to Evergreen and to your goals!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sven Trials View Post
    I belonged to the BBTC 20yrs ago during the fragmented and dysfunctional times. Glad things have greatly improved.

    Times have changed with trail building that does not suit my riding style. Leaf blowers are now being used to clean trails. Blows my mind...I have found myself being driven away from Tiger and GR, and gravitating toward my former groups of ponies and dirtbikes and the style of trails I grew up with here in Western Wa.

    I do support Evergreens objectives and I understand (with discussions with Dave S.) about "sustainability". Other user groups have a different definition that works better for my riding style. All the best to Evergreen and to your goals!
    This. I am an admitted luddite, but I see nothing that evergreen does that I would want to support. The top tiger mtn trail is literally the worst trail I have ever ridden. Features for no purpose. It's a trail built for a specific type of riding, which is fine, but I see no effort to build traditional cross country type trails. I also see no effort to access new trails; why can't I ride the trail system on Squak? I would much rather ride existing hiking trails than contrived mtn bike trails.

    Leaf blowing and cutting back brush? Really? Its the freakin woods, deal with it. Trail maintenance is really the dumbing down of all the local trails, some good erosion just gives the trails character.

    I would love to support an organization that I felt supported mountain biking, but I don't see Evergreen as that organization.

  11. #11
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    Re: Do you love riding Washington singletrack?

    Marketing marketing marketing

    Find TV ways to sell memberships also marketable internet. Any search engine companies guys can lend a hand?

    How do we get an evergreen sticker inside of a video game scene?

    Or the local bank commercials?

    "Evergreen free ride, downhill, dirt jumper, all mountain, cross country, backcountry, single speed guy... you're a lot like us..."
    Last edited by paleo; 11-15-2013 at 11:16 AM.

  12. #12
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    Glenn and his harem of bike chicks. Nice video guys!!

  13. #13
    Sawyer Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddy View Post
    I would love to support an organization that I felt supported mountain biking, but I don't see Evergreen as that organization.


    Well, they most certainly support mountain biking; what's debatable is whether or not they place resources into your more narrowly defined view of mountain biking.
    Evil The Following
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  14. #14
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    Re: Do you love riding Washington singletrack?

    I'm told the well known hiking organization has 12000 members in this state.

    So imagine that group's leadership at the nucleus of a 12000 electron atom. This puts their statewide influence at 6x our influence.

    At the state and local level these numbers truly matter.

    We can squabble about finer points but let's get the membership up and it will take years to see even more opportunities but that is what this thread is really about.

  15. #15
    Just roll it......
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    Thanks for the reminder....I'll renew mine today.

    I'm with Paleo. When I talk to land managers or our local politicians, it's important they know that what we're discussing affects a large number of people. The greater that number is definitely has an effect and helps steer that discussion. There are other ways we help support that as well - stuff like trail counters and surveys.

    Also, for the record, I hear the "you're not building the types of trails I like to ride, so I'm not supporting your group" argument in my neck of the woods too. My comment is the folks who are designing and, more importantly, building these trails ultimately get the say. Also, when your working with a land manager, it's in all of our best interest to build a better routed (call it sustainable or whatever you want) and better built trail as a reflection on what we bring to the table.

    IMO, the old school folks who are happy to ride poorly routed hiker trails can do that 'til their hearts content....have at it!

    Last, while we're not a chapter of Evergreen, the WMBC strongly supports Evergreen's mission and we've received a ton of support from Glenn, JVP and Kennedy over the years.....lots of meetings and solid advice. In fact, Glenn and I probably speak every couple of weeks regarding the DNR and other items and he's also on the WMBC's advisory board.

    Support this organization, folks!

    Cheers,
    EB

  16. #16
    Squeaky Wheel
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    Perceived user conflict, no critical mass volunteer base for trail work and no organization effectively lobbying for mountain biking is what got us thrown off many trail systems. Len and EB are right on - you don't have to 100% agree with everything Evergreen does but the organization is demonstrating success and garnering the respect of land managers throughout the state and it's the best thing we have going. I support Evergreen and hope more people get on board.

    As an aside I just finished leaf blowing out at PVCA. I used to feel the same way about leaf blowing as a couple of the previous posters (that it was stupid) until I started doing a lot of trail work. It was then that I realized an hour of leaf blowing saves about five hours of maintenance on trails that are heavily used in the winter time.

  17. #17
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    i'm standing by to see how effective you'll be dealing w/ the Banner Forest situation. best of luck to ya
    breezy shade

  18. #18
    FM
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    Hello, Evergreen?
    I'm calling to cancel my membership. What? It's already expired anyways?
    Well listen, the real reason I called is to complain. Complain about the lack of trails made for ME. My style of riding is the best! Please build something which works my pecs.
    Oh, and all the new trails suck.

    K, thanks bye!



    Do you love riding Washington singletrack?-6437587-man-sitting-stationary-bike-after-training-talking-mobile-phone.jpg
    (this is the only biker not represented by Evergreen!)

  19. #19
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    Love it paleo! We should totally pitch that next time Pemco does a call out for ideas.
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
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  20. #20
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    IMO, the old school folks who are happy to ride poorly routed hiker trails can do that 'til their hearts content....have at it!

    HAHAHA!!

    Good thing the trails I ride are old moto trails such as (Fat hand,Iverson, Trials loop trail) Grand Ridge and Squawk and Taylor and Rattlesnake Mountains.

  21. #21
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    I'm hoping that means you're standing by us as supporting member while we work on that issue - or that you're coming out and standing by us at the trail work party out there tomorrow. Because the larger our numbers the easier it becomes to have an impact on decision makers.
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
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  22. #22
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    Thanks EB! Y'all are doing great work up there!!
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  23. #23
    Justin Vander Pol
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    Evergreen is totally kicking butt right now. There is so much good stuff on tap, stuff that's taken 10, even 15 years of grinding work to get to this point. Blood, sweat and tears by many.

    I'm VP of the Board of Directors, and I do it because I believe we've got something powerful going on here, and we're unique in the country. Our area has been a politically tough place to build trails, but we're changing that. If we ever let off the pressure, then we'll go right back to the days when we were losing places to ride. Right now we're gaining, and gaining big time.

    I can think of 5 new or expanded trail systems in the pipeline off the top of my head, but it'll only happen if Evergreen has the resources to keep the pedal to the metal. Tiger, Tokul/Hancock, #2 Canyon, Raging, Alpine Baldy, Olallie State Park, Mt. Spokane. OK, that's actually 6, and I know there's more. So much good that can happen, but only if we all step up and join so we've got the numbers and the political power. Simple as that.

    My stoke level for what Evergreen is doing is at 11, and my knob only goes to 10.
    I support Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance!

  24. #24
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    pEEPLES GONNA HATE.

    bRING ON THE FLOW TRAILS!

  25. #25
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    Over the last year or two, I've really started to come around to "getting" what Evergreen is about and how much they do out here. I'll admit, when I first moved to Seattle from Chicago, I largely ignored what they were doing.

    I had spent time working with another bike group in the Chicago area (CAMBR) to go through proper channels to get some popular singletrack legalized, and only a few months after we thought it was done and sealed and good to go, one day the county there just out of the blue decided to convert the singletrack to an 8 foot wide crushed limestone trail. No notice was given, it just happened and there was nothing we could do about it despite years of being the only user group to actively maintain the trails.

    Needless to say, I had pretty much decided going through the proper channels was a waste of time after that, and for me mountain biking became a much more... convert operation. At least to get anything fun to ride. You built it where no one would find it, and that was it.

    I guess it also didn't help that I moved out here right around the time that BBTC became Evergreen, and the few people I had met while riding were long time BBTC members not happy about that change and quite vocal about it. So I basically let them do their thing, I continued to do mine.

    But it's been hard to ignore the changes that have been happening lately, and how much more fun terrain is around now thanks to Evergreen. Tokul staying legit(ish), Collonade, Duthie, the new summit trail at Tiger was a real eye-opener too. Never expected a high speed flowy trail (with downhill right of way!) at such a popular location!

    So I've been a member for a few years now, and donate what I can of my time and money as best I can. Hoping to spend even more time at work parties this winter as well, at least as soon as my shoulder gets better (grrrr).

    Having met some of the Evergreen people like Juice and Scott in person (man that Northshore trip was wicked), I realized they're hardcore bikers just like me. Down and dirty mountain bikers who love riding a huge variety of terrain, not just the watered down (sanitized?) trails that often need to be built in order to please land managers and push mtn biking forward in Washington. A few years ago these guys were probably building the same trails that people are lamenting the loss of today.

    So yeah, I'm on board now and I hope more people are soon as well. It's a great organization well worth supporting.

    (If I had one minor suggestion, the last few weeks have been Evergreen overload in terms of emails, FB posts, all the threads here, and now even on Pinkbike. There's a fine line between getting your message across and beating people over the head with it so often they tune it out.)
    Last edited by Tarekith; 11-15-2013 at 10:15 PM.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    pEEPLES GONNA HATE.

    bRING ON THE FLOW TRAILS!
    Wow, they gotcha on the good stuff for that shoulder these days eh?!? :P

    My big ol' truck tailgate sports an Evergreen sticker, loud & proud. Even out here in the sticks it's important to know who our friends are... the connections are always potentially valuable.
    "...Some local fiend had built it with his own three hands..."

  27. #27
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    As one of the 498,000(that number seems high)I don't renew because supporters have no input on what the club is doing. Just give money and live with what they choose to do. As long as I have no voice I will give no money.

  28. #28
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    I enjoy and appreciate the mountain bike community. Mountain biking is a significant part of who I am. Supporting what EMBA does is supporting who I am, and is an easy choice for me. The way I see it, the cost of a membership is one of the best deals I'm going to get every year. It would be a bargain at twice the price.

    I like the professionalism and passion I see from the leadership and staff at EMBA. It is these qualities that will foster continued successes and expansion of riding opportunities. I'm all in behind you.

  29. #29
    Squeaky Wheel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kliemann53 View Post
    As one of the 498,000(that number seems high)I don't renew because supporters have no input on what the club is doing. Just give money and live with what they choose to do. As long as I have no voice I will give no money.
    Contact information for Evergreen staff is on the website. Location and time for board meetings is posted to the calendar. All you have to do is show up and make your input known.

  30. #30
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    As a member of Evergreen I volunteer and only for what I feel is important to me. The pro builders are even better as they do what is required for the current greater good and you will know if are with them they are pros. My point is we are all Evergreen. It has never been better for access and conditions especially the loss if cougar mountain out of which bbtc/evergreen was born 25 years ago.

    If you want all your trails mud free or clear of trees there are groups of us volunteers in between lives and rides taking care of our trails. Not yet in your area? That's why I got involved... I could name names but I know volunteers all over this state that do this (and really everywhere and we are all truly connected)

    If you need help learning how to help: Bros or pros will show you everything from dirt work to chainsawing and its all based on helping our trails.

    Now I don't need or really desire to do any of this for anyone else but why not say its for you and me? The kc parks, and usfs land managers I directly work with (thanks to evergreens leadership) think evergreen and its members are helping them care for their trails.

    My voice is loud and clear on the ground. That said even Bros have differences of opinion and tunings to our efforts. We settle those on the trail or behind the scenes. We have a common interest!



    If on the ground is not your style do then try the board (bored) thing. Its surely harder than a day in the woods... there's traffic and other people's opinions!

    I'm not letting the self proclaimed disenfranchised off the hook. You and we bought a bike expecting unbridled access . Are you really not with us?

    What was that membership link again?
    Last edited by paleo; 11-16-2013 at 11:50 PM.

  31. #31
    Sawyer Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo View Post
    As a member of Evergreen I volunteer and only for what I feel is important to me. The pro builders are even better as they do what is required for the current greater good and you will know if are with them they are pros. My point is we are all Evergreen. It has never been better for access and conditions especially the loss if cougar mountain out of which bbtc/evergreen was born 25 years ago.





    I grew up wheeling, and watching the constant stream of trails shut down over the past 5-10 years (both locally and nationally) became incredibly discouraging. Losing access to your chosen sport, or sports flat out sucks. Finally said eff it and sold the jeep.

    Watching access for bikers grow in WA has been amazing since returning to this state. New trails on Tiger after how many years?? New parks popping up everywhere. Sure, not everything is my style, but I can ride it! Adding trails is far superior to losing... In the wheeling community, the fight was often against the hikers and dirt bikers, both user groups of which were far more organized and better funded; it was a train wreck sometimes. From that experience, I can gladly get behind an organization that's battling for my sport, even if we don't always see eye to eye. Numbers of participants don't lie, and funding follows the loudest and most vocal voice.
    Evil The Following
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  32. #32
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    I want to thank Mike, Bryan and Tyler for putting on our first south end trail building class in Maple Valley. What a hoot! We had close to 50 show up for the class. Great info shared. Then we got out and busted in a real nice section of new trail at Henry's Ridge. Grateful for the Evergreen guys and glad to be a member!!

  33. #33
    TrinityRiverKerplunk
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    Overall being a member of Evergreen is a good thing, and I'm about due to renew my membership.

    Sven Trials though on the other hand has an excellent point. Forget 'bout the flow trails and take back the old stuff that has been around like the killer back country stuff we older farts started on. I know riding has changed, so for those that like bike parks go for it....as for me, high altitude and back country is where it's at.

    I understand the need for an advocacy group on our behalf, and so I belong. Yet I want to see more old-school backwoods stuff/focus, not the bike park thingy type of stuff.

    We thought about going to Issaquah for that bike festival they do, but heck why bother when the last remaining high altitude stuff is being stolen by the nutjob hiker gang and other fringe elements opposed to us being in the woods?!

    So, we hit the mountains when we can and try to get some rides in that won't be here in the future. I lament Johnson Ridge being gone, that whole area is being usurped by the car hiker crowd (what next?), so get your high altitude rides in while you can, Evergreen should be putting up more of a fight there so we won't have to worry.

    Until then we have to continue the fight against the nutty wanna-be hiker gangs that seem to think they are the sole users of the woods and couldn't care a cent about the mtn biking community.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  34. #34
    Justin Vander Pol
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicrown junkie View Post
    Evergreen should be putting up more of a fight there so we won't have to worry.
    Good points. Evergreen puts a TON of effort and time into fighting to keep and expand access for the high country riding. This stuff doesn't get as much attention because it's not as sexy (pictures of meetings just don't get noticed), but it's a huge part of what Evergreen does.

    What does maintaining access to this stuff mean? Going to years of meetings, getting our members to send in comments for forest plan revisions and ATM plans, and meeting endlessly with the conservation community to influence their plans so that mountain biking is helped, not hindered.

    It's an amazing thing that Evergreen is now invited into closed door, back room, pre-public meetings with these groups. They now realize that they need our help, so they craft the newest proposals so that they're protect our trail access. When the proposals mean losing trails, we get the proposals changed. This didn't happen 15 years ago, but it happens now.

    You can't just fight once a proposal is already out for comment. By then, it's too late. You have to be in there early and craft the proposal so it works for bikes. This is what Evergreen does. The fact that this happens quietly means that we're winning and we influence the process before there's a fire drill and a need for a huge fight.

    Evergreen has influence in the process because we've now got the numbers and we're seen as a strong and legitimate user group. They need us.

    Right now the Okanogan-Wenatchee forest plan is being revised. This is a multi-year process, and without Evergreen being directly involved, we'd lose a lot of trails. A lot. Good trails, too. Glenn is working with the forest managers to help them understand what we need, why we need it, and that we'll keep the pressure on until there's a draft plan that makes sense for us.

    This isn't sexy, but it's important, and Evergreen staff is there making sure your voice is heard. If Evergreen wasn't doing this with paid staff, you could say bye-bye to lots of awesome xc trails.
    I support Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicrown junkie View Post
    ...I understand the need for an advocacy group on our behalf, and so I belong. Yet I want to see more old-school backwoods stuff/focus, not the bike park thingy type of stuff...
    I totally get your drift, being a 'non-park-scene/backcountry' rider myself whenever I can get the time. But I wouldn't exactly say Evergreen has been ignoring this. FS owns most of the non-NP alpine ground in this state, so if you want some that's who you have to go to. Obviously working with a fed agency is non-trivial to put it mildly... note the time line on this project.

    The Wilderness regs in the Cle Elum district are up for modification soon, and I'm glad to hear that Evergreen peeps are keeping tabs on where that's headed. I'd love to make the meetings but I have to work, and honestly just one dirtbag chick showing up isn't going to make nearly the impression that a rep from a much larger organization with established cred is going to.

    And THANK YOU to all you poor peeps who keep slogging on through the meetings. There's a real talent involved in this sort of thing that I simply don't possess.
    "...Some local fiend had built it with his own three hands..."

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kliemann53 View Post
    As one of the 498,000(that number seems high)I don't renew because supporters have no input on what the club is doing. Just give money and live with what they choose to do. As long as I have no voice I will give no money.
    Just wow...

    I'd like to know more why you or anyone else with that train of thought think that way. I could not disagree more. Do "they" do everything I like 100%? No. But it is all still for the greater MTB good. Are you sure you are not just a bitter hiker posing as a mountain biker?

  37. #37
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    No I,m not a spy ,I,m not bitter either. Evergreen started this thread because only 0.4% of mtn bikers are members.I think If they were more of a club and not just a lobbying group their mite be more people signing up. When I was a member the club rides were all at race pace( social pace)we left slower riders behind, often on illegal trails (they call them gray trails)their was no way that I new of to contact other members directly. When I emailed Evergeen about this I got no reply, so when my membership was up I didn't bother to renew.I don't need to be a member to go on work parties, and not really knowing what their doing with the money until its done is a problem for me. I wonder why you(Borneo) don't have a problem this.

  38. #38
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    I support Evergreen

    I support Evergreen. They gave all of us Hansen Ridge. And more. The list of benefits is very long.

    We all make our choices. Support for a mountain biking organization by words of praise, financial, trail work, advocacy, or other means is my choice. Spewing nonsense against the organization is another popular choice on mtbr, but does not get trails built. The latter choice is favored by anti mountain bikers, the former choice to support trails is the choice that myself and my friends make.

    I already reached my goal for the year for support, but with this appeal from Stacy, I'll make an effort to contribute more in my own way.

    I also liked what EB said. Lot of great work happening by WHIMPS and other MTB organizations. Whether you support Evergreen or another group, at the minimum, thank them for what they do for all of us, and if possible to help in a more tangible way, all the better.

  39. #39
    Just roll it......
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    What Juice said.

    When we weren't viewed as a strong and legitimate user group, we weren't even invited to these early discussions before anything was presented to the public. The fact of the matter is many of the decisions are already decided before any public input or commenting period. Now, our user group is not only contributing at these meetings, but also helping shape those proposals. You know when the land managers and conservation groups are asking for your input early on in proposals, we're making an impact around the state. That's not something that happens overnight and it takes a consistent presence for them to know we're not going anywhere.

    As someone who's built one or two "gray" trails in my life, I've learned the importance of having strong, respected and legitimate organizations there to represent our sport to land managers. Have I always got my way? Absolutely not. Have I had someone who was in our corner and could interface with those land managers when sh!t went sideways? Most definitely and I'm really glad I did too....and so are any of you who ride at Tokul, Henry's Ridge, Galbraith, etc. today. Those land managers want to know our user group can be relied on as good stewards of the areas we recreate and we'll do what we say and say what we do.

    Renewed.
    EB

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo View Post
    I'm told the well known hiking organization has 12000 members in this state.

    So imagine that group's leadership at the nucleus of a 12000 electron atom. This puts their statewide influence at 6x our influence.

    At the state and local level these numbers truly matter.

    We can squabble about finer points but let's get the membership up and it will take years to see even more opportunities but that is what this thread is really about.
    Well said. That big state wide outfit knows that those who do the work on and off the trail get what they want. They also do 10 times the volunteer hours on trail. Time to grow up and be official.
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddy View Post
    (...) I see no effort to build traditional cross country type trails. I also see no effort to access new trails; why can't I ride the trail system on Squak? I would much rather ride existing hiking trails than contrived mtn bike trails.
    Getting access to hiking trails that are currently closed to bikes is REALLY hard. In a place like Squak, which you mentioned, I'd guess it's effectively impossible. Given our stature and limited relationships with agencies like DNR, WA State Parks, and USFS, working toward that would've simply been wasted energy, certainly in the past. Maybe some day, when the bikophobic old guard among the hikers fades away, and we find some way to bargain with the equestrians... maybe. Right now, it's just a non-starter.

    In the mean time, there have been other opportunities. Evergreen has limited staff and limited volunteer energy, and so they direct their attention where the resources can make something happen. In the past few years, that has gotten us Colonnade, Duthie, new trails on Tiger, a start at Hansen Ridge, normalization at Tokul, and so on.

    We've gotten to the point that we're effective enough that groups in other parts of the state want to become Evergreen chapters. (Methow, Central WA, Eastern/Spokane, West Sound, Yacolt). I think that says a lot.

    A different angle: you may know that people who wanted more "exciting" trails have long built their own off in the woods, to be found by land managers like the USFS who would then be frustrated with mountain bikers for building illegal trails. As Evergreen builds more trail that serves those bikers, hopefully illicit building will taper off. That's good for all of us, I think.

    Now, you want something specific, something that has a good bit of trail available. Those who wanted flowier or more "progressive" trails had NO legal trails available just a few years ago.

    So while I'm with you in wishing that there was more energy going into backcountry trails, I can't see how you'd say that Evergreen doesn't support mountain biking.

  42. #42
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    Re: Do you love riding Washington singletrack?

    I was told by a friendly hiker the Bullitt family donated their parcel on Squak with a no bikes ever condition attached later to the 1972 gift when the Alps movement swept the area in the early 90s.

    That said the middle fork is an incredible Evergreen mountain bike success story from this era of closures and its virtually unused except by me :-)

    What worked on the Middlefork is well documented on the trail wiki with at least 10 years of our leaders working behind the scenes to find common ground with the groups that would talk to us and then provide a united voice to the USFS.

    Got a pet project? Pitch it and settle in for a decade.

    Remember there are 6 of them to every one of us so be patient and forgive our own who trespass on our collective goodwill.

  43. #43
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    Thanks for the support Tarekith!

    And noted on the amount of communications. I try to keep it all to a reasonable level, but it's a busy time right now for us, so there's lots to communicate.

    We're rolling into winter trail work season with a big push, our annual reports on what we've been doing are coming out, the Winter Stoke Party is on the horizon so people need to get their photos and vids ready to enter in the contest, and it's fundraising season once again. Whew!

    So you'll be hearing from us a good bit in the next few weeks. But hopefully it's mostly things you'd like to hear about. :-)
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
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    Kliemann53, we always welcome member input.

    Please feel free to come to a monthly board meeting (4th Monday of every month excepting major holiday - and listed on our calendar), join a trail work party and talk with our trail crew leads, show up at a public meeting, get involved with one of our five chapters statewide, or email or message us.
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
    sustainable trails. rider powered.

  45. #45
    TrinityRiverKerplunk
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    ... and if we just ...

    Juice That is by far the best response I have ever heard for supporting BBTC/Evergreen, period.

    So, I just put renewing on the high priority list, and it's done complete w/payment to Evergreen. I would have done it earlier, but since emigrating up here to the True North last month I have had to learn my new job all over again, damn good thing I get to see Mt. Baker for inspiration when I ride home every day!

    I also want to make clear that I appreciate EvergreenStacys efforts, it is a good thing that she is with the organization.

    Last, don't let the wanna-be outdoor hiker crowd try and cage us into "bike parks". This is EXACTLY what they want, so they can run amok all over the hills in any fashion that suits them.

    I have had it, the fight is back on with that bunch of jerks. Tried to be peaceful and respectful for the past two decades, but that group by and large has egos larger than Rhode island w/o the brains to go along with it. There are some good people mixed in there and I really feel for them since their message is drowned out by the lunacy of the rest in the hiking crowd.

    Get our trails BACK, we deserve to be on them too.


    Quote Originally Posted by juice View Post
    Good points. Evergreen puts a TON of effort and time into fighting to keep and expand access for the high country riding...........


    This isn't sexy, but it's important, and Evergreen staff is there making sure your voice is heard. If Evergreen wasn't doing this with paid staff, you could say bye-bye to lots of awesome xc trails.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  46. #46
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    Evergreen isn't just about new school trails ( or fr, dh, flow, XC or backcountry)

    Quote Originally Posted by unicrown junkie View Post
    Overall being a member of Evergreen is a good thing, and I'm about due to renew my membership.

    Sven Trials though on the other hand has an excellent point. Forget 'bout the flow trails and take back the old stuff that has been around like the killer back country stuff we older farts started on. I know riding has changed, so for those that like bike parks go for it....as for me, high altitude and back country is where it's at.

    I understand the need for an advocacy group on our behalf, and so I belong. Yet I want to see more old-school backwoods stuff/focus, not the bike park thingy type of stuff.

    We thought about going to Issaquah for that bike festival they do, but heck why bother when the last remaining high altitude stuff is being stolen by the nutjob hiker gang and other fringe elements opposed to us being in the woods?!

    So, we hit the mountains when we can and try to get some rides in that won't be here in the future. I lament Johnson Ridge being gone, that whole area is being usurped by the car hiker crowd (what next?), so get your high altitude rides in while you can, Evergreen should be putting up more of a fight there so we won't have to worry.

    Until then we have to continue the fight against the nutty wanna-be hiker gangs that seem to think they are the sole users of the woods and couldn't care a cent about the mtn biking community.
    unicrown junkie, thanks for supporting us with your membership. Please know that Evergreen is actually working on quite a lot of backcountry trail access and maintenance all the time. Here are a few of the ways we've doing exactly that recently:

    We've partnered with Washington Wild for land protection and recreational access on issues such as Volcano Country Wild Rivers Campaign, Green River Valley (near St Helens) exploratory drilling, and critical road repairs. These efforts protect the landscape and mountain bike trails which could otherwise be logged, mined, roaded, or developed.

    We also worked closely for 3-4 years with a coalition of different organizations on the Wild Olympics Wilderness & Wild and Scenic Rivers Act that will permanently protect more than 126,000 acres of new Wilderness on Olympic National Forest plus 19 Wild and Scenic Rivers and their major tributaries - while still maintaining access to the vast majority of trails important to mountain bikers.

    We worked hard to identify and protect access to trails in the proposed Wilderness area that are currently open to mountain bikes. It took a long time and a fair amount of back and forth but the most important MTB trails are now outside of Wilderness and still open to our form of low-impact recreation.

    Trails negotiated to remain open to bikes include Lower SF Skokomish, West Fork Humptulips and the Lower Big Quilcene and many others. Go here for a complete list (Wild Olympics Campaign Addressed Issues | Wild Olympics Campaign). As Wild and Scenic Rivers these will never get logged or dammed and will stay open for mountain biking.

    We also do quite a bit of backcountry trail maintenance and have a dedicated Backcountry Trail Crew Lead in the summer. This year alone we hit the Kettle Crest area, Mt St Helens, Hwy 410, M. Fk Snoqualmie, Moran State Park on Orcas and a bunch more I can't remember off the top of my head. And our Chapters reach even more backcountry trails in the Methow, Spokane and Wenatchee areas.

    So rest assured we really are trying to work on maintaining access to backcountry riding (as well as frontcountry riding). Personally, it's my favorite style of riding - so I volunteered on M Fk Snoq and Palisades work parties this year. But I can enjoy all types of trails as long as I get to keep my wheels no more than a foot or so off the ground. :-)

    Oh, and you should come out to the Festival at Duthie this year. Where else can you demo bikes from 16+ brands, have a blast, win shwag, AND help raise money to support our work protecting, building and maintaining trails?!?!
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
    sustainable trails. rider powered.

  47. #47
    TrinityRiverKerplunk
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    Thanks for the reply, EvergreenStacy! I will continue to support BBTC/Evergreen for some time to come, especially since its pointed out by you and Juice as to what is going on for us backwoods guys.

    Regarding the Duthie Festival, aint gonna happen! They don't have any demo bikes with XT thumbshifters, so that leaves me out, plus not to mention those silly shocks bikes have now...

    Keep up the fight, and working with everyone. Thanks for the effort!
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddy View Post
    This. I am an admitted luddite, but I see nothing that evergreen does that I would want to support. The top tiger mtn trail is literally the worst trail I have ever ridden. Features for no purpose. It's a trail built for a specific type of riding, which is fine, but I see no effort to build traditional cross country type trails. I also see no effort to access new trails; why can't I ride the trail system on Squak? I would much rather ride existing hiking trails than contrived mtn bike trails.

    Leaf blowing and cutting back brush? Really? Its the freakin woods, deal with it. Trail maintenance is really the dumbing down of all the local trails, some good erosion just gives the trails character.

    I would love to support an organization that I felt supported mountain biking, but I don't see Evergreen as that organization.
    yo_eddy, the reason we don't put much time and energy into building new, old school XC style trails (which are typically existing hiking trails open to multi-use) is that there are hundreds of miles of hiking trails open to mountain bikes across the state already. Instead we put our time and energy into protecting rider access to, and maintaining, those trails.

    Gaining access to hiker-only trails is often almost impossible. With our limited resources it only makes sense to go after "easier" opportunities.

    And trail maintenance is critical given the growing number of riders on our trails. We make NO effort to dumb down trails. But if erosion reaches a certain point chances are that trail could get closed down entirely. It's much easier to do maintenance in an ongoing fashion. Plus it shows land managers that we're serious and responsible.

    And I can tell you from experience that it's no fun to ride a trail that has downed trees across it every couple hundred yards (think mid fk snoqualmie in the spring.) Someone has to cut those out - and oftentimes it's our volunteers who do this work.

    Most of our new trails are being built closer to urban areas where there is a high demand (and thank goodness because it's really hard to get volunteers out into the backcountry for trail work). While sometimes they are built for a specific style of riding, like at Duthie where we have XC, freeride and dual slalom trails, most - including the new summit trail - are built to be fun for a variety of riders while also being sustainable given the amount of traffic expected and the terrain and moisture management needs.

    Aside from all of that, Evergreen also offers rider skills classes, free group rides of all types, Take a Kid Mountain Biking Day for tots to teens, the enduro race at Tiger, and our Washington Student League for middle school and high school kids and more. We also work with land managers and other user groups on advocacy and access issues statewide.

    But...if you still don't think Evergreen supports mountain biking in Washington I completely understand.
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
    sustainable trails. rider powered.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicrown junkie View Post
    Thanks for the reply, EvergreenStacy! I will continue to support BBTC/Evergreen for some time to come, especially since its pointed out by you and Juice as to what is going on for us backwoods guys.

    Regarding the Duthie Festival, aint gonna happen! They don't have any demo bikes with XT thumbshifters, so that leaves me out, plus not to mention those silly shocks bikes have now...

    Keep up the fight, and working with everyone. Thanks for the effort!
    My pleasure! Hope to see on a nice backcountry trail some time.
    Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
    sustainable trails. rider powered.

  50. #50
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    I do appreciate ES and Evergreen, I understand the efforts as my father and the riding club, of the time, was instrumental in preservation of Capitol Forest back in the '70's

    My Dad was a hiker, horseman, and motorcyclist from the 30's throughout his life. He was able to transcend all genre of outdoor activities and was able to connect in a positive way. I believe that Stacy can and will do the same. (Just wish she was into trials) Joking!!! Keep fighting the good fight and see you on the trails.. (not duthie tho)

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