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  1. #1
    I5Troll
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    Build legitimately at Duthie -- not illegally next to the park!

    Hey folks,

    Check out the Evergreen calendar: Evergreen MTB Calendar. There's some kind of a work party going on almost every day in Jan. So there's really no excuse for building illegal trails next door to Duthie...

    An illegal jump trail is being built in the Cleveland Memorial Forest (Duthie's east side neighbor) to/from the Montaine neighborhood. The trail starts/ends near the retention pond at the end of 278th Court SE and connects up to the far east side of StepItUp via a boot path. It's not directly related to Duthie, but we need your help to stop it.

    This really has a negative impact on Duthie. With so many jump lines and trails packed into Duthie next door, and so many opportunities to help legitimate builders build Phase 2 trails, there's no excuse for this. It's probably just a few selfish kids who haven't thought about the consequences, so we need to find out who it is and educate them. One of the reasons we have Duthie is because it provides a legitimate place for trail builders to do what they love to do. Please ask around, look around, keep your eyes peeled, etc and let's put a stop to this. We don't need to get them in trouble... let's get them building legitimately at Duthie!

    Here's some background info... The land to the east of Duthie is the Cleveland Memorial Forest. It's owned and managed by Seattle Public Schools. The network of hiking trails are maintained by volunteers and alumni and used primarily for youth and educational activities. Evergreen and King County Parks approached the land managers about connecting up the 2 trail systems years ago, but they are adamant about keeping their trail network as is... hiking only for their own use. We need to respect that!

    Please do not bike on any land around Duthie. There are only 2 public entrances: the main parking lot and trailhead on the north side and the maintenance access road / Grand Ridge side entrance. If you're coming into Duthie any other way, it's illegal. Please don't use the LDS church parking lot and entrance -- it's is open only for special events a few times per year.

    Thanks,
    Mike

  2. #2
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    A little like building a roller-coaster next to Disneyland.

    Not to be harsh but if found, they should be forced to fix it, not Evergreen. That or refer them to the Sherriff.

  3. #3
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    So very lame. How could they build anything better?
    There's a big difference between ripping and skidding. Those who skid don't know how to ride.

  4. #4
    Just roll it......
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    Game cameras.

  5. #5
    pnj
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    Mike,

    How big were the jumps? Could you tell how much time had been put into them?

    There are a number of reasons why people do this but I don't think the logic will make any sense to those that ride/dig at Duthie.

  6. #6
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    On the Facebook page Mike said the kids who built it talked to him and are going to take down the jumps and block off the trail.
    Tarekith.com

    '12 RM Slayer70, i9 Torch, Flow EX, XT Brakes, 5050 s3.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pnj View Post
    Mike,

    How big were the jumps? Could you tell how much time had been put into them?

    There are a number of reasons why people do this but I don't think the logic will make any sense to those that ride/dig at Duthie.
    i understand what you're saying, but you're on the wrong tangent. It was just a local kid wanting his own personal entrance into the park is what it boiled down to.

    Even if it were a statement about lips, if you are pushing that agenda, putting in rogue trails next to Duthie is the complete backward step to getting them. King County is providing the open door to future possibility, part of the deal is to get a community of builders working above board.

    i mean not to say we have to be police to each other, but if we can't keep a rogue trail from developing right next to Duthie, what are land managers going to think about on the next plot of land we try for on building bike specific trails.

    As far as what specifications are on trail builds, there is and has been a wide expanse of trail leads and groups steering the bus. The park as a whole will lean as the community does. It something is missing from Duthie, that doesn't mean it will continue to go missing on future legitimate projects, if any ever arise again...
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  8. #8
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    Skookum ... I think you are also on the wrong tangent.

    Its a question of education and making individuals aware of what does and what does not help the larger cause of increasing or maintaining access for mountain bikes. In King County alone, the vast majority of trail mileage currently available is grey/illegal including Tapeworm, Willows, parts of Tiger, the Tokuls, Exit 27, Exit 34, Exit 38, etc, etc, etc.

    If Evergreen is seen as a pseudo-enforcement agency by land owners then Evergreen will lose support from many in the mountain biking community in the long run.

    Duthie Hill is just as much as the problem as it is a partial solution to the larger issue of grey/illegal trail building. Yes it gives people a place to ride and develop their skills and confidence above board. But it will also drive interest/demand in pushing the boundaries of what is legally available or increase demand in areas which have grey trails.

    Do not take what I just said above as condoning what was done in Memorial Park adjacent to Duthie Hill. Multiple cut-in trails have been built and removed over the last couple of years (the one leading off this thread I have personally blocked off on multiple occasions where it crosses from Memorial Park land to StepItUp). Until King County resolves the larger issue of parking and park access this will continue. I think what was new in this lastest effort was the adding of TTFs to the illegal connection which required Mike to call attention to this effort.

    I am not sanctioning grey/illegal trail building activities but at the same time I am not going to rat on those who may or may not be engaged in such activities.
    The quiver: 2010 Santa Cruz Nomad, 2011 Specialized Demo II, 2011 Canfield Brothers Yelli Screamy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    I am not going to rat on those who may or may not be engaged in such activities.
    No before i dive into this, exactly where did i say this?

    Oh actually i said the complete opposite. Why would you even infer i said that?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    Its a question of education and making individuals aware of what does and what does not help the larger cause of increasing or maintaining access for mountain bikes.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    In King County alone, the vast majority of trail mileage currently available is grey/illegal including Tapeworm, Willows, parts of Tiger, the Tokuls, Exit 27, Exit 34, Exit 38, etc, etc, etc.
    haha what? i don't think it's "vast", and as far as mileage goes, i don't think it's a "majority". But i suppose that's not important to the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    If Evergreen is seen as a pseudo-enforcement agency by land owners then Evergreen will lose support from many in the mountain biking community in the long run.
    i agree to a point. There was/is an IMBA program where people wore vests, and would inform people trail ettiquette etc. i don't think it was successful, and since i don't hear about any club currently implementing it, it obviously wasn't popular to anybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    Duthie Hill is just as much as the problem as it is a partial solution to the larger issue of grey/illegal trail building. Yes it gives people a place to ride and develop their skills and confidence above board. But it will also drive interest/demand in pushing the boundaries of what is legally available or increase demand in areas which have grey trails.
    Wow, uhh ok... interesting point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    Do not take what I just said above as condoning what was done in Memorial Park adjacent to Duthie Hill.
    But this is the topic we're discussing here though right?

    Again i take exception to your "rat" comments.

    What happened is the kid "ratted" himself out to Mike. Mike turns around and puts him in a position to help instead of hurt. Everybody wins. i'm not advocating being police, but i have always advocated people think about the repurcussions of their actions and make smart choices that will benefit our community.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdusto View Post
    Until King County resolves the larger issue of parking and park access this will continue.
    You really think that? i tend to think this probably tied up this loose end.
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  10. #10
    pnj
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    Tim - I was just going to say it was probably kids who don't know any better. I had no intention of mentioning my 'give me dirt jumps or give me death' mantra.

    If the illegal trail/jumps had NOT been by children, well then I was prepared to bring up another point about why people would dig illegally instead of spending their efforts at Duthie...

  11. #11
    NWS
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    Perhaps we need a few signs in the park that say something like:

    "When you work with our team, you can enjoy your trails and jumps for years. When you work alone, the county requires that we erase your trails and features immediately."

    I have a hard time believing that people would spend time on these solo projects if they knew. It's not like your work can go undetected out there.

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