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  1. #101
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    Whats the latest ??
    Last edited by vyper005; 12-23-2008 at 03:36 PM.

  2. #102
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    Trails are thawed and muddy.

    Need drying or freezing conditions before they will be ridable.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutboy
    Trails are thawed and muddy.

    Need drying or freezing conditions before they will be ridable.

    Sloppy wet the past few days, but supposed to be down to about 28 tonight. Think it'll be frozen up enough for an early Saturday morning ride?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinker
    Sloppy wet the past few days, but supposed to be down to about 28 tonight. Think it'll be frozen up enough for an early Saturday morning ride?
    I rode middle run Sat (12/13/08) from 3pm to about 430pm...It wasnt that bad at all...The Delaplane Manor Hill....the Mountain Goat and the Corkscrew were fine.Anyplace on the trail where the sun hits was a little damp & muddy but not too bad.

  5. #105
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    Has anybody tried the new log pile next to the long "Skinny" at the top of the corkscrew ??
    It's located on the trail that branches off at the very beginning of the corkscrew...It's about 8ft long...3 or 4ft high at one end & kinda crosses the 3ft ditch same as the other log...

    After about 5 trys I rode the log pile on the downside but did not try to go up it....Its pretty steep and if you dont hit it just right you could be in for a world of hurt

  6. #106
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    Has anybody been riding in the cold temps ??

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyper005
    Has anybody been riding in the cold temps ??
    Mixed trail/road ride for 1.5 hours tonight. Trails will most likely thaw and be a muddy mess with tomorrow's rain. I just wish everything would stay frozen, maybe add some white fluffy stuff to play in.

  8. #108
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    Anyone going out today (12-26-08) ??

  9. #109
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    It was frozen solid at 5:30 this morning.
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manicmtbr
    It was frozen solid at 5:30 this morning.
    Still frozen at 8:30, but a few spots were getting snotty by 10:00. Ran into Vyper at the church parking lot, but I was done and he was just starting, so we didn't ride together.

    Hope we get another freeze soon....the spin class is better than nothing, but it sure isn't the same as riding singletrack!

  11. #111
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    Doesn't surprise me that vyper005 waits until it's getting muddy before he starts;seems to be his pattern.

  12. #112
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    I demand better treatment

    I think I would rather ride in the snow than the mud...Take that...

  13. #113
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    Has anyone tried this log pile at Middle Run ?? It's close to the top of the Corkscrew...Pretty cool...

    Here's some pics..






  14. #114
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    I rode Middle Run yesterday (1-1-09) from 2-3pm and the trails werent muddy at all...There were two downed trees that I ran across,one of them was at the beginning of the corkscrew.When I got there it was about 29 degrees with hardly any wind...not too bad at all...

    On a side note...I ran into a group of 5 younger guys (< 21) with 2 of them wearing shorts,I said to one of them," I cannot believe you guys are wearing shorts in this cold ",he said, " I fee fine,I'm good." I said "Nice"

    oh well...Anybody else go riding ??
    Last edited by vyper005; 01-02-2009 at 10:14 AM.

  15. #115
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    Went to white clay for the first time today. I grew up in DE but didn't start riding again until I was living in Philly and riding Wissahickon Park/Valley Green 3+ days per week for 2 years or so. I recently moved back here and was sad that I would have to drive an hour or more to ride Valley Green. Turns out white clay is awesome riding (so far as I can tell now). I have been off the mountain bike but road riding only for about 2 years now and was excited to get out. I parked at Judge Morris and meant to ride over to the snow goose trail to make my way over into the park. I ended up riding the whole chestnut hill trail by accident which was a good warmup but nothing significant really. Really beginner trail here but that's probably what I should be on right now until I get my legs and skills back. I ended up riding over to Snow Goose and then to Lenape. I must have made a wrong turn somewhere because I was trying to get to the Whitley Farms trail but ended up back around by the double horseshoe trail which I rode. There were a few little obstacles that I practiced a few times to see if I still got it... I do but i'm nowhere near as fluid or fast (or strong for that matter). All in all I road for 1.75 hours including all the stop time to check my map and scratch my head. I plan to ride every weekend I can and weather permits. I may look into the trailspinners as well as I was always interested in doing some trail maintenance.

  16. #116
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    Has anybody had any issues with fishing line, and or rope across the trails behind JCC? About a year ago when I rode there, I hit some pretty low test fishing line just below neck level right behind the JCC. Thank god it was low test, and broke quick..

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleStageDarkness
    Has anybody had any issues with fishing line, and or rope across the trails behind JCC? About a year ago when I rode there, I hit some pretty low test fishing line just below neck level right behind the JCC. Thank god it was low test, and broke quick..
    What's the JCC ??

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleStageDarkness
    Has anybody had any issues with fishing line, and or rope across the trails behind JCC? About a year ago when I rode there, I hit some pretty low test fishing line just below neck level right behind the JCC. Thank god it was low test, and broke quick..
    I think your talking about The Jewish Community Center up in the Brandwine Valley. I ride out there at at least once a week and have never seen anything like that.You'd think with all the walkers, runners, & bikers it wouldn't be there for long even if someone was putting it up on purpose.

  19. #119
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    [QUOTE=TripleStageDarkness] [SIZE="5"]Thank god it was low test, and broke quick[/SIZE

    Don't mention it...

  20. #120
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    what is the condition of the park right now? I was hoping to squeeze a ride in tomorrow morning but don't know if it's already muddy or not.

  21. #121
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    rode last night and it was pretty solid. Keep an eye on the weather b/c the snow is suppossed to switch over to rain at some point. Just get out there early while it's still frozen.

  22. #122
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    [QUOTE=God of Everything]
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleStageDarkness
    [SIZE="5"]Thank god it was low test, and broke quick[/SIZE

    Don't mention it...

    AHAHAHA!!!


    ok...back to lurking
    "My Fat Hurts." - Me

  23. #123
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    Anyone going to brave the cold temps and ride ??

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyper005
    Anyone going to brave the cold temps and ride ??
    It's not cold!! I rode last night at MR and saw quite a few other folks out there as well. Seriously, as long as my toes, fingers and ears are warm I'm good to go. I almost forgot it was cold out until I went for a drink and discovered that the sip tube of my camelbak was frozen.

    FYI: There's a Trailspinners work day scheduled for this Friday at Middle Run. Meet at the McGlynn's parking lot at 9am.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinker
    It's not cold!! I rode last night at MR and saw quite a few other folks out there as well. Seriously, as long as my toes, fingers and ears are warm I'm good to go. I almost forgot it was cold out until I went for a drink and discovered that the sip tube of my camelbak was frozen.

    FYI: There's a Trailspinners work day scheduled for this Friday at Middle Run. Meet at the McGlynn's parking lot at 9am.
    It wasn't too bad last night despite the 25 degrees. Trails were fast and frozen (along with my water bottle)

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex
    It wasn't too bad last night despite the 25 degrees. Trails were fast and frozen (along with my water bottle)
    You guys are riding monsters !!

  27. #127
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    I'd like to ride Saturday or Sunday morning if the trails aren't soft. I assume they will be frozen solid as the weather is supposed to stay cold. I will be riding the single speed this time for it's maiden voyage, can't wait!

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorsti
    I'd like to ride Saturday or Sunday morning if the trails aren't soft. I assume they will be frozen solid as the weather is supposed to stay cold. I will be riding the single speed this time for it's maiden voyage, can't wait!
    Trails should be frozen and fast! Perfect for that SS of yours. So what's the setup you'll be on?

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex
    Trails should be frozen and fast! Perfect for that SS of yours. So what's the setup you'll be on?
    Not really popular on this board but it's a 2007 Cannondale 1FG frame with Ultra Fatty 80mm headshok fork
    DT swiss 240s single speed hubset, mavic xc717 rims, maxxis ignitor UST tires and stans
    Thompson seatpost
    Cannondale stem
    Easton monkeylite SL carbon bar
    Oury grips
    Avid Juicy 7 hydros
    Crankset is Truvativ stylo single speed 32 tooth
    Chris King steel cog 19 tooth
    I am currently on a WTB devo carbon saddle but it is crazy hard and uncomfortable so I will give it a ride or two and see if I warm up to it but I will likely change that.
    It's pretty light but I have not weighed it yet. I am hoping under 24lbs but can't be sure. My older Cannondale R2000 Road bike is in the 21 pound range so it's funny to have a mountain bike that is not much heavier.
    I have never ridden a single speed so I am not sure how I am going to like it. I have always wanted one to see what it's like so here I go.
    Last edited by Doctorsti; 01-16-2009 at 03:31 PM.

  30. #130
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    *** Update 1/20/09 ***

    Just got back from Middle Run, temp was about 29 deg.All trails were snow covered & pretty solid.My Kenda 2.35 front tire gripped like a champ

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by fach
    If you like descents, check out the whiteley farms loop.

    Pssshhhh. Screw the decsent...if you like climbing ride the WHITELY Farms loop counter clockwise

  32. #132
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    True story! That's one long climb with very few breaks.

  33. #133
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    Last night the trails were..........ummmm..........dusty? Weird. Great conditions though!

  34. #134
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    tried to take advantage of the day and ride since it sounded like the trails might not be mush... well they were mush about 50% of the trail that I rode. Brian's or something, I think it was. I aborted the ride early obviously to save the trails so I was bummed that my single speed debut was cut so short. I love it so far. Can't wait to get back out to White Clay to ride the whole thing one morning when it dries out a bit.

  35. #135
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    Sunday around 10 a group will be out. I'm 50-50 on making it. It should be nice and cold so the trail will be solid.
    Work Hard 2 Play Hard!!!

  36. #136
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    ***Update***
    Just rode Whitly Farms & David English today (1/25/09) from 9am-10am...Temp was around 21 deg with hardly any wind...I probably saw around 25 people including 2 large groups of riders...No wonder....It was Fast & Frozen

    On a side note >>> I just picked up some North Face Denali fleece/nylon gloves at Dick's for $25 bucks and I'm pretty dissapointed, even with no wind my hands were super cold...every so often I would stop just to back my hands out of the gloves and make a tight closed fist for warmth... they have decent flex and control to them but they dont do the job...Any recommendations ?? Something kinda thin...flexible and really warm for temps below 20...

  37. #137
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    is that the best place to ride in the area? would love to try it someday

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyper005

    On a side note >>> I just picked up some North Face Denali fleece/nylon gloves at Dick's for $25 bucks and I'm pretty dissapointed, even with no wind my hands were super cold...every so often I would stop just to back my hands out of the gloves and make a tight closed fist for warmth... they have decent flex and control to them but they dont do the job...Any recommendations ?? Something kinda thin...flexible and really warm for temps below 20...
    I've been using MSR Coldpro gloves for years. They work well down into the single digits, but my hands are still always cold until I'm warmed up, and chugging along.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revved
    I've been using MSR Coldpro gloves for years. They work well down into the single digits, but my hands are still always cold until I'm warmed up, and chugging along.


    They seem pretty nice...The Blue ones look pretty sweet...
    You got me thinking....I might just check out Cycle Gear in Bear...I guess it doesnt matter if they are motorcycle gloves as long as they keep your hands warm...

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyper005
    ***Update***
    Just rode Whitly Farms & David English today (1/25/09) from 9am-10am...Temp was around 21 deg with hardly any wind...I probably saw around 25 people including 2 large groups of riders...No wonder....It was Fast & Frozen

    On a side note >>> I just picked up some North Face Denali fleece/nylon gloves at Dick's for $25 bucks and I'm pretty dissapointed, even with no wind my hands were super cold...every so often I would stop just to back my hands out of the gloves and make a tight closed fist for warmth... they have decent flex and control to them but they dont do the job...Any recommendations ?? Something kinda thin...flexible and really warm for temps below 20...
    ya gotta get the gloves with "windstopper" skip the north face and get ems brand - that will save you $15

  41. #141
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    The Performance Nanook work wonders in the bitter cold. Unfortunately I don't own a pair yet. lol

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc
    The Performance Nanook work wonders in the bitter cold. Unfortunately I don't own a pair yet. lol
    Did you use someone else's or did a friend tell you ?? I might check'em out...

  43. #143
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    Just rode this afternoon from 2 to 3:30! Great conditions. Snow on the ground but not so much to make it difficult really. I had lots of fun riding Bryans field, Whiteley farms, and David English. I do have a question though about the ride today. I am not really familiar with the trails so I was riding Bryans field clockwise starting where the bryans connector drops you off. I came upon a fork in the road after the monument cutoff I think where if you went left and then parallel to the bryan field trail you could drop down into a little gully and through a drainage pipe (a darn big one at that). Where does that take you? I may check it out next time. Anyway what a ride today. Skills trail would have really required some skill today if anyone was brave enough to ride it.
    One more question, are there any trails in the park or nearby parks that have lots of logs/obstacles to get over. So far there has only been one 10-12 inch log and then a big mama log that I need to get some more practice before I take a shot at it.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorsti
    drainage pipe (a darn big one at that). Where does that take you? I may check it out next time. Anyway what a ride today. One more question, are there any trails in the park or nearby parks that have lots of logs/obstacles to get over. So far there has only been one 10-12 inch log and then a big mama log that I need to get some more practice before I take a shot at it.

    It takes you to Middle Run. And yes there is a whoooole bunch of log rollers, skinnys,
    and techy areas. Check out kencox.net for a pretty sweet map of it all. How did you
    like your ss??
    And a good day to you sir!

  45. #145
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    If your looking for a lot of logs try brandywine and woodlawn. There are PLENTY of logs to test your skills on there. I wish there were more skinnys to ride there but it seems like when anyone builds something, people just rip it down or destroy it. It's a shame because there is tons of potential there. Regardless it has enough to keep you on your toes.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by nucmedjim
    It takes you to Middle Run. And yes there is a whoooole bunch of log rollers, skinnys,
    and techy areas. Check out kencox.net for a pretty sweet map of it all. How did you
    like your ss??
    Absolutely love it. I am not sure if I will go back to my Rocky Mountain ETSX anytime soon. I am running a 32/19 combo now as I was unsure how my fitness was or how I would be with the mild climbs at white clay. I may change that to 32/18 as I seem to be able to clear all the climbs I have come across without too much difficulty. So far I have not come across any technical climbs like I was riding in Wissahickon State park/ Valley Green in Philly.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorsti
    Absolutely love it. I am not sure if I will go back to my Rocky Mountain ETSX anytime soon. I am running a 32/19 combo now as I was unsure how my fitness was or how I would be with the mild climbs at white clay. I may change that to 32/18 as I seem to be able to clear all the climbs I have come across without too much difficulty. So far I have not come across any technical climbs like I was riding in Wissahickon State park/ Valley Green in Philly.

    There aren't any real long climbs at MR/WC so you can feel happy to throw on that 18t cog. You also won't find tech climbs because 1) there aren't any climbs 2) there aren't any difficult sections. It's just a whole lot of fast and smooth trails.

    If you want to climb and like to climb rocks then head over to brandywine.

  48. #148
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    I was looking for a pair of cold wheather gloves so I just picked up a pair of Motoboss Mercury gloves at Cycle Gear...They were on sale for $28 bucks reg $35...They seem real nice for the money but as they say...the proof is in the pudding...The guy at Cycle Gear says they have a 100% satisfaction gaurantee...Just bring'em back if you dont like'em...We'll see...

    Here's a pic & the specs...



    Features and Benefits
    Full waterproof-barrier lining for total wet-weather comfort
    Adjustable dual-strap gauntlet
    Polyester-fiber insulation provides outstanding warmth
    Full leather palm and fingers with double layers in high-wear areas
    Abrasion-resistant nylon back for flexible, lightweight protection
    Hard knuckle protection for additional impact safety
    Precurved finger construction allows for excellent fit and function
    Reflective piping on fingers and gauntlet increase visibility
    Last edited by vyper005; 02-01-2009 at 07:00 AM.

  49. #149
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    Man I really hate crappy weather...I havent even tried out my new winter riding gloves...

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyper005
    Man I really hate crappy weather...I havent even tried out my new winter riding gloves...
    Don't start....I bought a new bike (GF HiFi) and haven't ridden it yet!

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyper005
    Man I really hate crappy weather...I havent even tried out my new winter riding gloves...
    I went out today and thought the trails would be a little frozen with the snow... but they were sloppy as hell so I rode about 100ft and turned tail. Oh well. I will try again on Friday.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorsti
    I went out today and thought the trails would be a little frozen with the snow... but they were sloppy as hell so I rode about 100ft and turned tail. Oh well. I will try again on Friday.
    Don't waste your time. They'll not be any better by then. We'll likely need another freeze before they will be ridable again.

    Best possibilities are the roads/blue diamond trail at Fair Hill (easy to get 15-20 miles in)and the old rail trail and roadway that follow White Clay Creek from Newark to the old Church in PA. Not singletrack, I know, but you can get in 10+ miles if you start in Newark and do an out and back (or 2). IT is pretty scenic riding along the icy creek. I can provide more details if anyone would like.

    And thank y'all for having the courtesy to not tear up the trails by riding in muddy conditions. We really appreciate it. I know it's tough to drive there and not ride and those of us who maintain the trails truly respect your decision to be conscientious riders.

    TY

    Tim S.

  53. #153
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    Do you think there is any chance of getting a night ride in over the next 2 days? Temps are suppossed to stay below freezing.

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by breilly
    Do you think there is any chance of getting a night ride in over the next 2 days? Temps are suppossed to stay below freezing.

    No. Night riding is not permitted in White Clay Creek SP or Middle Run.

    TS

  55. #155
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    Hey all dont forget Gambrill State park just above Frederick Maryland, is awesome even when it is raining you can ride there...theres not much dirt, its mostly rock, fun riding...technical, and lots of climbing (decents follow climbs, yeehaw)...give it a try someday when you get tired of waiting on your local trails to dry out...
    Ed

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutboy
    No. Night riding is not permitted in White Clay Creek SP or Middle Run.

    TS
    there are sanctioned night rides if I am not mistaken. Never been on them but I am pretty sure they occur. you obviously have something to do with trail maintenance and should know. They are advertised.

  57. #157
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    you can go there on any given week night thats below freezing and see many groups of people riding. I know the white clay side is off limits, but I have never heard of middle run being illegal. If so, then there are many people breaking the law every night there.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by breilly
    you can go there on any given week night thats below freezing and see many groups of people riding. I know the white clay side is off limits, but I have never heard of middle run being illegal. If so, then there are many people breaking the law every night there.
    You are correct. There are many breaking the law by riding illegally in Middle Run at night.

    It is actually getting out of hand, partly because one sees people riding and thinks "There are many people riding here at night, it must be legal." So more people ride at night.

    Trust me NIGHT RIDING AT MIDDLE RUN IS NOT PERMITTED.

    Middle Run Natural Area is a New Castle County Parks facility. White Clay Creek is a Delaware State Park. They are governed by different codes; however, DE State Park police have authority in Middle Run. The reason people get away with night riding is they usually park in lots that are not just for the parks. There is no way for the Park Police to know if a car parked in the McGlynn's lot, for example, is not from people at McGlynn's. But if they receive a complaint or see someone riding at night, they will write a warning ticket (at least). If they see a vehicle parked in the Possum Hollow lot, they will investigate.

    Here is the Applicable Section from the New Castle County Code:

    Sec. 24.01.002. Presence in parks after dark.

    No persons are permitted in any park during the hours of darkness, except in
    those areas designated for extended use activities or unless written permission is
    obtained from the Department of Special Services for after-dark programs.
    (Ord. No. 98-050, § 1(24-2), 5-26-1998)

    and here is a link to the entire code:

    http://www.co.new-castle.de.us/nccpa...recreation.pdf

    We are trying to establish legal night riding at White Clay Creek. Please do not jeopardize this by riding at night in WCC or MIddle Run and giving the impression MTBers are irresponsible.

    Believe me, it is difficult to resist riding the nicely frozen trails at night. I live right across the road from Middle Run. You don't think I'd love to hop on my bike, cross the street and ride ? But there is this thing called self-control. Please exercise it, for the long-term benefit of everyone.

    Thanks Everyone

    TS

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    hey trout,

    what about brandywine and woodlawn?

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    Quote Originally Posted by breilly
    hey trout,

    what about brandywine and woodlawn?
    I cannot speak for Woodlawn. That is private land controlled by the Woodlawn Trustees. You would need contact them to get the scoop.

    My take, I seriously doubt they would permit it.

    As for Brandywine, that is a State Park and regulations are actually more stringent. In State Parks is is illegal to be there within 30 minutes after sunrise and within 30 minutes before (yes, before, not after) sunset (unless it is a sanctioned activity, such as hunting). That is, technically you need to be out of the park by 30 minutes before sunset (that is significantly before darkness). Ridiculous rule, BTW.

    Do they enforce it ? Probably not often, but once when I was hiking and listening to owls I had a ranger call me out of the woods with a loudspeaker and issue a warning citation when he saw my truck in the lot BEFORE official sunset. No kidding ! It was nowhere near dark, of course.

    TS

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    I have a few questions Trout

    1) I've heard about the potential future allowance of night riding in WC/MR but was wondering what the status is with that? Are we close, kind of close, or in infant steps? What's holding it back? I personally think "closed" parks is a little dumb, regardless of the time of the day.

    2) How can I obtain written permission to be in the parks after dark?

    3) Are "green ways" closed after dark? I know it passes through 2 state parks near me, but I have always wondered if I stayed within the "green way" paths would it be ok to pass through. I view those paths as my safe transportation via foot and bike. And I do frequently commute/transport myself via bike. It's like a bike highway. They don't close roads after dark.

    Just thinking out loud and it sounds like you have more answers than most.

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    I don't think it is legal to ride on Woodlawn after dark. There aren't many places you can ride after dark. One good thing about night rides you can see oncoming bikers. I think some of these state parks should have one night where you are allowed. How are the trails at White Clay and Middlerun in the early morning?

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    That would be great to be allowed to ride there. It seems there are already groups that have above the law rights to "sanction" rides there. One would think that if it was "illegal" it would be challenging to allow "special" riders the ability do so at night. How would the authorities know who are "special" and who are not.

    "Night Rides

    Remember, it is illegal to ride after dark in local parks. However, sanctioned night rides for our club members and others who participate in trail maintenance activities are scheduled regularly."

    quote from a particular club

    Besides the night ride banter, anyone go out to the park today to see how things where shaping up given the frigid weather? I figure two days in the 20s should firm them up to ride tomorrow so I will give it a shot unless I hear definitely they are smooshy.
    Last edited by Doctorsti; 02-05-2009 at 09:54 PM.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorsti
    That would be great to be allowed to ride there. It seems there are already groups that have above the law rights to "sanction" rides there. One would think that if it was "illegal" it would be challenging to allow "special" riders the ability do so at night. How would the authorities know who are "special" and who are not.

    "Night Rides

    Remember, it is illegal to ride after dark in local parks. However, sanctioned night rides for our club members and others who participate in trail maintenance activities are scheduled regularly."


    quote from a particular club
    If it were not for that "particular club" there would be no trails at Fair Hill or White Clay Creek to ride. That "particular club" negotiated legal riding at Fair Hill and White Clay Creek, built and/or maintains those trails, and constantly advocates YOUR rights to legally bike there (believe me, there are plenty of folks who are actively trying to eliminate biking from White Clay Creek). That "particular club" has also raised and donated over $20,000 in the last several years to various causes, including equipment for other clubs and government agencies to maintain trails at Fair Hill, White Clay Creek, Wharton State Park (NJ) and Chester Co PA trails.

    We do not have "above the law rights" to santion night rides. We have some night rides at Fair Hill (they are not allowed at WCC SP). Because we have volunteered thousands of man hours (generating hundreds of thousands of dollars - not those "money saved" type dollars, but real money from the State into the coffers of Fair Hill) we are allowed, on occasion , to have a nite ride. We must obtain permission from the ranger in charge ahead of time for each night ride.

    Rides must be accompanied by a volunteer ranger and riders must have contributed 8 hours or more of trail maintenance within the last year. Most of us have contributed upwards of 100 hours a year to trail maintenance so YOU have trails to ride.

    If you come out for trail maintenance at Fair HIll 2 days per year, then you could ride also. You are from Newark. Have you volunteered for trail maintenance this year at WCC or Fair Hill ?

    Perhaps you do volunteer for trail maintenance in a different trail system. If you do, that's great. Maybe you should approach your trail manager to allow you to ride at night at your venue.

    As to how the Park managers know who is legal and who is not. It's easy. We spend so much time volunteering in the park and interacting with the rangers that they know all the ride leaders (=volunteer rangers) by sight.

    And the trails will be too wet and soft to ride anytime after about 0900 today and probably all weekend. If you want to ride at Fair Hill or White Clay Creek, please stick to the roads.

    TS
    Last edited by troutboy; 02-06-2009 at 11:02 AM.

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorsti
    there are sanctioned night rides if I am not mistaken. Never been on them but I am pretty sure they occur. you obviously have something to do with trail maintenance and should know. They are advertised.

    Sorry, but you are incorrect. There are NO sanctioned night rides at WCC or Middle Run. There are some sanctioned night rides at Fair Hill SP, MD.

    TS
    Last edited by troutboy; 02-06-2009 at 02:46 PM.

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    From personal experience, ie being chased by park rangers years ago, you are not permitted to ride Middle Run or Brandywine at night. I rode with the Trailspinners for a few years on their Tuesday night ride and got chased one time at the end into the McGlynn's parking lot. As for the trails I live about 2 miles from Middle Run and my yard is soggy so I use that as my barometer, it's gonna be too warm today to refreeze in time to ride tomorrow without damage and I've seen some obvious bike wheel damage on the trails recently, let's not push it and lose what we have.

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutboy
    If it were not for that "particular club" there would be no trails at Fair Hill or White Clay Creek to ride. That "particular club" negotiated legal riding at Fair Hill and White Clay Creek, built and/or maintains those trails, and constantly advocates YOUR rights to legally bike there (believe me, there are plenty of folks who are actively trying to eliminate biking from White Clay Creek). That "particular club" has also raised and donated over $20,000 in the last several years to various causes, including equipment for other clubs and government agencies to maintain trails at Fair Hill, White Clay Creek, Wharton State Park (NJ) and Chester Co PA trails.

    We do not have "above the law rights" to santion night rides. We have some night rides at Fair Hill (they are not allowed at WCC SP). Because we have volunteered thousands of man hours (generating hundreds of thousands of dollars - not those "money saved" type dollars, but real money from the State into the coffers of Fair Hill) we are allowed, on occasion , to have a nite ride. We must obtain permission from the ranger in charge ahead of time for each night ride.

    Rides must be accompanied by a volunteer ranger and riders must have contributed 8 hours or more of trail maintenance within the last year. Most of us have contributed upwards of 100 hours a year to trail maintenance so YOU have trails to ride.

    If you come out for trail maintenance at Fair HIll 2 days per year, then you could ride also. You are from Newark. Have you volunteered for trail maintenance this year at WCC or Fair Hill ?

    Perhaps you do volunteer for trail maintenance in a different trail system. If you do, that's great. Maybe you should approach your trail manager to allow you to ride at night at your venue.

    As to how the Park managers know who is legal and who is not. It's easy. We spend so much time volunteering in the park and interacting with the rangers that they know all the ride leaders (=volunteer rangers) by sight.

    And the trails will be too wet and soft to ride anytime after about 0900 today and probably all weekend. If you want to ride at Fair Hill or White Clay Creek, please stick to the roads.

    TS
    Easy there, I just moved here and would love to get involved in trail maintenance right here in WCC. I was planning on joining this summer actually. I am not sure the tone of "voice" you have is all that necessary and I am sure you will get to meet me in the future, as you obviously have something to do with the trail spinners, and find out there is no need to lecture me. By the way I am one of the folks that said that I drove my butt up to the park excited to ride, thought it was a little too moist because there were sections that I could see my tracks and turned back after 100 yards to drive 25 minutes back home, twice actually. I have never ridden at night but liked the sound of it and heard that it was occurring and that it was advertised by the trail spinners. I'm sure you are on edge due to the fact that many don't treat the trails with respect and don't abide by county code.

    Oh yeah and I am bummed that I can't ride today. I was hoping the freeze was going to be a little longer lasting but obviously not since it's mid 40s now and sunny all day.

  68. #168
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    I was out walking the dog this afternoon and the feild trails are absolutely destroyed, with secondary trails starting where people went around the ruts. I hope people arn't out riding this weekend becuase it is going to be a sloppy mess out there, and for days to come.

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    Copied from an email I received earlier this morning-

    Subject: [dccofd] PERFECT WEEKEND TO RUIN OUR LOCAL TRAILS

    Hey all,
    Please pass on to everyone you know to please not ride our local trails
    (Middle Run, White Clay Creek and I'll throw in Fairhill). With the high
    temps and very wet ground the trails will get trashed this weekend. You
    know with the beautiful weather that the trails will be VERY hard to
    resist. Don't be shy about telling folks to get off the trails if you
    happen to be passing by on your road bike.

    I am hearing through my local grapevine that there is major grumbling again
    related to mountain bikers in the White Clay Creek trail system so we need
    to be on top of educating others.

    thanks,


    So it'll be a road ride tomorrow, and maybe NJ on Sunday. WC/Middle Run are done for a while.

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorsti
    Easy there, I just moved here and would love to get involved in trail maintenance right here in WCC. I was planning on joining this summer actually. I am not sure the tone of "voice" you have is all that necessary and I am sure you will get to meet me in the future, as you obviously have something to do with the trail spinners, and find out there is no need to lecture me.

    Hey, I admire your conscientious attitude regarding not riding and we all appreciate it. But you did use the term "above the law", posted in more than one post about certain special riding priviledges, and implied certain groups had special favors without ever really doing any research to see what the true story was. You did it twice, it did not seem like an innocent, but poor, choice of words to me. Perhaps I read you wrong, then.

    So how about we just call it a minor misunderstanding and move on. You seem like a nice person, you are obviously willing to not ride when the trails are soft, and that type of attitude is always appreciated.

    TS

  71. #171
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    Settle down guys...just come on up to Gambrill (west side of Frederick MD) in the mountains...technical, rocky, NO MUD, and a blast...dont have to stop riding or ride that blasted road bike...we even ride when its raining and it DOESNT hurt the trails...now the water shed is a different story but not Gambrill park...so if the arguing starts getting worse cause your all on edge from not riding come on up...we're doing XC tomorrow and DownHill on Sunday....

    Ed

    PS - deep breaths, deep breaths, ahhhhhhh feeling better....

  72. #172
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    Thanks Revved. I was going to post this as well. That email came from someone who is very close to the head ranger for the State of Delaware and lives adjacent to WCC, so it is an informed email, not just banter.

    I rode Middle Run today before work when it was in the 20's. There are huge ruts all over the park from last weekend when it was in the 50's. Another warm weekend and the trails will be trashed. Unfortuntately there will be folks who ride there this weekend and trash the place. Seems like a "Trail Closed" sign at every trailhead would be a good idea until the trails are ready again. I used to think this would be a bad idea or how could someone make these decisions, but it really would be a good idea. A few years ago, there was talk about closing the trails in WCC during these conditions. Another variation was to close them after a certain time of day, when they would start to thaw. Managing this would be a pain because of the variations each day and then there was talk of closing WCC to MTB for long periods of time when thaws were likely (IE, December through March). It could still happen.

    No offense meant here, but it just kills me to see NJ and PA cars with muddy bikes leaving "our" trail system. Most locals know to stay off when conditions are not good (most, not all). Folks from outside of town have little stake and ride at will.

    Sounds like riding in MD might be a good idea listening to Ed. Sounds like a good time.

    Rant over.
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  73. #173
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    I love to read that people are so protective of "there" trails.

  74. #174
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    Geez we gotta be protective of all trails or they'll start getting taken away...you should see how bad it is in California...I was out there last year for 5 months...most riding is on fireroads and jeep trails...some areas you have to actually pay to use...one place you buy a pass, and the park is only open at specific times for MTBers, and then when you go in all it is, is double track and jeep trails in the open and blazing hot....crazy...sure hope it never gets that way out here....look at Shaeffer Park near Gemantown, MD....they close down for time periods specifically due to the very reason we are writting about here....

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by joedirt24
    I love to read that people are so protective of "there" trails.
    Care to explain what you mean ? I'm not sure. And do you have "there" in quotes because you know you it's incorrect, or is that for the some other effect ?

    TY

    TS

  76. #176
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    ignorance of the importance here I'm afraid Trout...let's hope its not "too bad for all of us someday", then those same individuals will be on here again only this time pointing fingers (remember though when you do that there are 3 fingers pointing back at you)...heck Trout you should see the condition of Patapsco right now...it is a mess cause people won't stay out and give it time to either dry or freeze...you wouldn't believe the amount of ruts...very sad indeed, good luck up there...hope by the 21st it'll be okay...
    Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by troutboy
    And do you have "there" in quotes because you know you it's incorrect, or is that for the some other effect ?

    TY

    TS

    So is " you know you " Mr. smarty pants.

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    You don't have to worry about me coming down to your trails. I think most people that come on this site know better then to ride trails when its wet. Maybe some club members should be down there and start telling people the damage they are doing. Because venting on here doesn't seem to be working does it

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by God of Everything
    So is " you know you " Mr. smarty pants.
    True that, but that's not really what I meant. Was not a criticism of his language. I really wanted to know if he was trying to be funny with a play on words or being a smart-ass by implying trail ownership concepts.

    I have my answer now from another response. You may return to being God. :-)

    T
    Last edited by troutboy; 02-10-2009 at 10:34 AM.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by joedirt24
    Maybe some club members should be down there and start telling people the damage they are doing. Because venting on here doesn't seem to be working does it
    Maybe they should (see next paragraph). Who knows. You would be surprised how many people DON'T know that riding when the trails are wet causes damage. I'd be willing to bet there are some newer riders who read these forums that do not. Or how about folks who have just moved here from, say Florida, where the trails drain immediately.

    What makes me think that ? I spent 3 hours of my weekend sitting in the parking lot at White Clay Creek and Middle Run talking with bikers and asking them to forego their ride because the trails were too wet. Wanna know how many riders had no clue ? Were persuaded to not ride ?

    Quote Originally Posted by joedirt24
    You don't have to worry about me coming down to your trails.
    That's good. From the tone of your posts I doubt you would be much fun to ride with. Why are you so negative ?

    T

  81. #181
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    Hey trout, just a suggestion would be maybe to put trail conditions on the trailspinners website. If you look at phillymtb.com they always have the current conditions of wiss posted. That would maybe help some of the out of town riders and save them a wasted trip.

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    Yep, we're working on that. It is one of several ideas being bandied about and is the easiest to implement. Unfortunately, it may not reach most trail users. OTOH, easy to implement + reaching at least some trail users seems like a good combo.

    The trick with this (and especially with another idea, trail head signs) is that they must be updated as conditions change w/ a date stamp or folks tend to ignore them.

    Similar to those "Campground Full" signs at National Parks. They do not get removed even when the CG is not full; therefore, people tend to start ignoring them, even if they are up to date.

    Thanks for the input.

    TS

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    how are conditions for this weekend?

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    Bad wet flooded. You need a 4x4..........

  85. #185
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    B-wine was amzingly dry today. A little moist in a few spots but overall it was VERY nice. I'd hope that WC/MR would be ridable after the last couple of dry days we had.

    People from other states coming to ride MR/WC might not be aware of the sensitivity and fragility of the fine trail system we have down here. I was completely unaware of such policies until I came to Delaware. Although, I have to admit after seeing some trails torn up by horses in Bwine today, that I think the "bikers stay off" stuff is a bit of nonsense. I don't care that horses tear up trails, it's dirt. But they do more damage during dry conditions than I do during wet conditions.
    Last edited by 88 rex; 02-14-2009 at 04:29 AM.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by joedirt24
    Bad wet flooded. You need a 4x4..........
    Well I just made plans to go for a 6-8 mile trail run in white clay tomorrow so I will see for myself. I will wear my delicate shoes so I don't disturb a pebble. If it's rideable I will head out Sunday, if not then back on the damn road bike for 40 miles.

  87. #187
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    Planning to go there in the spring!
    roccowt.
    rocnbikemeld

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    Went for a ride early this morning at WC and the trails were solid up until about 9:30 when I was finishing up. There is A LOT of damage done to the trails and it is going to take a while to get them back to normal. Skills trail was in bad shape, almost all of the open feild trails, and even the david english trail was pretty beat up in several spots. There are acutally more foot and paw prints then tire tracks which is a good sign that people are getting the word to stay off of trails when they are muddy.....headed to b-wine tom a.m and hopefully I can get a longer ride in.

  89. #189
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    I was running on the fireroads or green ways or whatever they are and they are really rough in spots from bike traffic. We ran on quite a few trails that were specifically signed as "no biking" and they were even gouged with tire tracks all over. Everything was hard as a rock this morning from 7-8 AM so I could have ridden but I'm not sure how much fun it would be to be constantly trying to keep my tire out of the crisscrossed tire divots.

  90. #190
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    rode this morning from 7-10 AM. I would have been home sooner had I not gotten lost on the damn Lenape trail. I think I did that loop three times before I found where I wanted to be. Trails were solid as a rock from 7-9. After 9 Bryan's Field and Lenape were definitely soft and wet and all I wanted to do was get off them. On my way back to the car Whitely Farms and david english were still solid in most places but getting wet by the minute. I didn't see anyone out from 7-9 but my way back to the car revealed parking lot after parking lot of riders unloading to hit the trails. At least if we are going to ride when the trails have been wet lets try to at least ride them when they are rock hard frozen early in the morning and not in the middle of the day when they are all going to be soft and wet!

  91. #191
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    Here's a couple of nice videos to get your juices flowing...

    This one is on the North Shore in BC...



    and this is Whistler Bike Park in BC...



    Man I would love to visit there...
    Last edited by vyper005; 02-19-2009 at 05:47 AM.

  92. #192
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    Any trail updates ??

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyper005
    Any trail updates ??
    Wet. We got a rain/snow mix on Thursday morning. But with a low of 24 predicted tonight, you'll be OK while the ground is frozen, probably until around 9:00 or so at the latest. With a forecast for sunny skies and temps into the low 40s (30 degrees and sunny at 9:00 AM) the trails will thaw and the moisture will be drawn up to the surface from below by then or soon thereafter, especially in the sunny fields.

    So, get up early and knock down some of those ruts for us , just plan to be done around 9:00 AM.

    As always, kudos to vyper005 and the rest of y'all who always ask and have the self control to not ride in poor conditions.

    TS

  94. #194
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    I rode this morning. Trails are TRASHED. I actually put a front shock back on my bike tonight because my arms are killing me.
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

  95. #195
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    ***Trail Update for Sat 2/21/09***

    I rode parts of Middle Run & White Clay from 730am till about 930am...When I left the house the temp in my truck was reading 23deg when I got to the park it said 26...I havent been riding in about a month so I had no idea what the trails were like at all.All of the trails were frozen & hard but they had huge ruts (anywhere from 2 to 4 inches deep) from people riding the trails when they shouldnt have..It going to take alot of riding to smooth them out...Pedaling on flat ground and uphill was definitely harder then usual...I only passed one person before 8am but about 15 people a little later on...Even at 930am the trails were still rock solid...
    ***On a side note....The begining part of the skills trail (after the first bridge) where you have to go between those two tight trees was made even harder due to the fact that the huge tree on the left hand side had fallen and is now uprooted...kinda in the way...I usually make it thru by swinging it wide but not today...The rest of the skills trail was in great shape...

    Any other comments ??

  96. #196
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    Any news ??

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyper005
    Any news ??
    Still too soft. I thought I'd get in a quick Middle Run ride after work. I left the church parking lot about 4:45 and was on my way home by 5:15. I guess it wasn't as cold as I thought today.

  98. #198
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    I rode MIddle Run and WC today starting at 6:00 AM. It was TRASHED. Way worse than last week - - I do not think there was a smooth trail section anywhere. I think trails will be closed soon if this keeps up. Many, many ruts.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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  99. #199
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    If anyone is going soon...shoot me a PM....Id like to go with someone that knows the trails. I have been there 3 times and love it and LOOOOOVE the skill trail!!!

  100. #200
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    Last past 2 days I've been riding at the 896 Glasgow Park...They have 1 trail thru the woods which was kinda soft today...most of the trail is covered by leaves and pine bark mulch...Anyone else go there ??

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