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  1. #1
    CS2
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    Vintage Bike Quality

    Is it just me or do vintage bikes/groups seem to be better than their modern counterparts? I was cleaning up an old 85 Stumpjumper Sport last weekend. I took it for a short spin and was amazed at how smooth and tight it was. I've got a Campy Daytona equipped road bike that can't match the feel.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  2. #2
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    "Replaceable" bike parts - chains, cogs, bottom brackets, brake pads, etc. all last longer on older bikes compared to new bikes. The increase in the number of rear cogs has mean narrower components and therefore less material which wears faster. Brake pads is where I've noticed the biggest difference.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  3. #3
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    My new stuff (m985 and DA9000) feels excellent. Chain wear will be slightly faster I'd guess. I usually replace groups every 5-6 years on my modern stuff and the lastest is really nice. Joe Murray and Dale Stetina are doing fine work.

  4. #4
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    Another for M985. Amazing group. Even the M785 stuff is so, so good. Better than XX.


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameybrook View Post
    Another for M985. Amazing group. Even the M785 stuff is so, so good. Better than XX.
    I really love the 1x concept though. Hopefully SHimano comes out with their own but talking with Joe Murray, they're not overly excited about it.

  6. #6
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    I was hoping the exact same thing. One thing I'm positive about is that I'm done with Avid brakes. Wouldn't a clutch Shimano mech with a Raceface single ring be sufficient for a 1X11 setup? Assuming you were ok with 30X36?


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameybrook View Post
    I was hoping the exact same thing. One thing I'm positive about is that I'm done with Avid brakes. Wouldn't a clutch Shimano mech with a Raceface single ring be sufficient for a 1X11 setup? Assuming you were ok with 30X36?
    Well, for racing I think you're more or less good with that range, but no more racing for me combined with our steep climbs and I need a wider range. I really like to be able to take easy days out in the mountains.

  8. #8
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    Well, for racing I think you're more or less good with that range, but no more racing for me combined with our steep climbs and I need a wider range. I really like to be able to take easy days out in the mountains.
    Ok geezer.
    -eric-

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  9. #9
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    Campy Daytona is "C" quality gear though. Your Stumpy has higher quality parts on it.
    Find an old road bike with a Triomphe build kit on it and compare that against your Daytona.
    *** --- *** --- ***

  10. #10
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Love the new stuff too, but with a big caveat.....

    I wish they'd slow down the development a bit. Let stuff get fully tested before it comes to market.

    We truly don't need newer, better, lighter, every single stinkin' year.

    It drives up costs significantly too, as evidenced by the fact that a top shelf Dura Ace or XTR bike 10 years ago, was maybe $6K tops, now, that gets you mid level bike, and top end bikes easily go north of $10K.

    They do nothing 4 to 5K better too, I don't care what anyone says.

    Worth noting that those $6k bikes were significantly made in the USA too, and production overseas was supposed to "save money".

    Hmmmm, who for?

    Bah, I guess I am a retro grouch. Just got my first 10 speed mtb a month or so ago, and um, I have an extra click over all my 9 stuff.

    Now to be truly hip I need 11?
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I wish they'd slow down the development a bit. Let stuff get fully tested before it comes to market.
    Wow, I feel like they're holding back. Their capabilities are so far beyond what they have on the market. No XTR Di2 yet, although its easily possible. What the market is calling for is what they're putting out there.. not stuff that's lighter and newer.

    The electronic stuff has so much potential. I am sure if you wanted it to you could blue tooth it to your phone and have it shift automatically by using a Garmin based on grade, or speed, or watts even, even pre planned workouts that shift by time on a flat road. Not saying I want it to do that, but it just shows what's easily possible vs. what they're putting out there.


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Love the new stuff too, but with a big caveat.....

    I wish they'd slow down the development a bit. Let stuff get fully tested before it comes to market.

    We truly don't need newer, better, lighter, every single stinkin' year.

    It drives up costs significantly too, as evidenced by the fact that a top shelf Dura Ace or XTR bike 10 years ago, was maybe $6K tops, now, that gets you mid level bike, and top end bikes easily go north of $10K.

    They do nothing 4 to 5K better too, I don't care what anyone says.

    Worth noting that those $6k bikes were significantly made in the USA too, and production overseas was supposed to "save money".

    Hmmmm, who for?

    Bah, I guess I am a retro grouch. Just got my first 10 speed mtb a month or so ago, and um, I have an extra click over all my 9 stuff.

    Now to be truly hip I need 11?
    I agree, bikes are way too expensive for what they are. Is it a case of whatever the market will bear or is that the true cost? I couldn't pay that much for a bike, just not worth that much to me. That said I do ride and appreciate the high end stuff.

    As for 11, I absolutely love it on my road bike. Got an 11-28 rear and a 52,38 front. Came off 12-27 and 53,39 and the added range is just perfect.

  13. #13
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    I feel like I just walked into an alternate universe.

    Long time members trying to convince me the latest shyte shoved by the industry is worth while?

    Wake me please, where the hell am I?



    As for all the arguments, I could counter, but I'd just be spitting in the wind......

    Alright, I can't stop myself. Roadies will do what roadies will do, I ain't gonna even try and stop them, but when someone convinces me that I need to charge my batteries so I can go for an MTB ride and have my gears work, shoot me.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  14. #14
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    You have to make sure your car battery is charged to go drive it, so what's the difference? That they haven't yet made a battery that will last a couple years? I'd bet that's not too much of a hurdle to get over.

    Its unfortunate that an 10 speed chain just doesn't have the wear life that an 8spd one does. The modern shift systems are just so damn nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I feel like I just walked into an alternate universe.
    I appreciate vintage bikes and technology for what they were at the time. But you're never going to get me to admit that vintage technology outperforms modern technology. Not if you're asking the bike for the most performance possible.


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  15. #15
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Alright, I can't stop myself. Roadies will do what roadies will do, I ain't gonna even try and stop them, but when someone convinces me that I need to charge my batteries so I can go for an MTB ride and have my gears work, shoot me.
    I mostly agree with you.

    I think the latest and greatest technology is great if you have one purpose: to win races. Electronic shifting, electronic shock lock-outs, or future technology such as self shifting drive trains, make sense if you need to win a 100+ mile race by finishing a split second faster than anyone else. However, normal riders don't need it (although some may want it).

    I like bikes because they are simple and they work well. I like that most bikes built over the last 100 years more or less works the same. Things have improved - I'm glad that we don't have to loosen a QR to shift gears, and I'm happier "clicking" through gears than I am shifting in friction mode. But at some point I think that its going to far. For me, it's when the bike goes from a mechanical device to an electronic one. If we're willing to accept electronic shifting as okay, why not electric-assist pedaling?

    I'm fine with batteries to power my head lamp and cycle computer. But after that I'll stick with mechanical systems.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    I mostly agree with you.

    I think the latest and greatest technology is great if you have one purpose: to win races. Electronic shifting, electronic shock lock-outs, or future technology such as self shifting drive trains, make sense if you need to win a 100+ mile race by finishing a split second faster than anyone else. However, normal riders don't need it (although some may want it).

    I like bikes because they are simple and they work well. I like that most bikes built over the last 100 years more or less works the same. Things have improved - I'm glad that we don't have to loosen a QR to shift gears, and I'm happier "clicking" through gears than I am shifting in friction mode. But at some point I think that its going to far. For me, it's when the bike goes from a mechanical device to an electronic one. If we're willing to accept electronic shifting as okay, why not electric-assist pedaling?

    I'm fine with batteries to power my head lamp and cycle computer. But after that I'll stick with mechanical systems.
    I rode the electronic ultegra on a big ride and it shifted great, but overall I wasn't impressed. The biggest thing is it felt like I was pushing TV remote buttons and more than a couple times pushed the wrong rubber button. And that was without gloves. With gloves I'm sure woud be more difficult do differentiate between buttons. I'm sure with more time on the bike this would go away. Second is like Mendon said, I don't want to have to charge up my drivetrain. Third, it's heavier. 4th, my mechanical DA 9000 works incredibly and feels so crisp and nice.

    That said, someday electronic is gonna be super dialed in a way we probably can't even fathom at this point. Same with suspension. I think we'll have a microphone on our helmet strap and command the suspension to go into "mode 2" for the upcoming downhill.

    I don't like the new stuff in order to win races or shave seconds, but I like it cause it's nice to use. Like a nice tool.

  17. #17
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    Whta about the singlespeed movement? 29ers that do away w/ suspension? Fixed gears? I see the anti tech as significant as the new tech. People want things from a bicycle that are not only about performance. Pedalling a bike takes you away from computer screens (excetp bike forums).. buttons.. abstract thinking.. and brings back something.. it's about the past not the future.
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    Whta about the singlespeed movement? 29ers that do away w/ suspension? Fixed gears? I see the anti tech as significant as the new tech. People want things from a bicycle that are not only about performance. Pedalling a bike takes you away from computer screens (excetp bike forums).. buttons.. abstract thinking.. and brings back something.. it's about the past not the future.
    Yep, I like both. I like the simplicity of the past and the advancements of the new. But for some reason I've never ever liked singlespeeds.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    Third, it's heavier.
    I thought the latest iteration of Di2 was overall lighter thank the mechanical Dura Ace (heavier derailleurs, lighter shifters but in sum Di2 lighter).
    Wanted: more of the same ... but different

  20. #20
    CS2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne View Post
    Campy Daytona is "C" quality gear though. Your Stumpy has higher quality parts on it.
    Find an old road bike with a Triomphe build kit on it and compare that against your Daytona.
    Daytona/Centaur hubs were actually Record level hubs. Campy Ergo levers were basically all the same internally with exception of Record/Chorus which had a bearing instead of a busing. The rest of the group I agree with.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCMDoc View Post
    I thought the latest iteration of Di2 was overall lighter thank the mechanical Dura Ace (heavier derailleurs, lighter shifters but in sum Di2 lighter).
    Hmmm. Maybe, but I think I recall hearing otherwise. Maybe if you don't weigh the battery??

  22. #22
    Team Brooklyn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    Hmmm. Maybe, but I think I recall hearing otherwise. Maybe if you don't weigh the battery??
    Perhaps but i am told that the battery was included in the comparison. Latest version is supposedly lighter than last year's.

    Not sure a few grams matter either way unless you're a weight weenie like me (despite the fact I need to lose a couple or 20 pounds).
    Wanted: more of the same ... but different

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    ...but when someone convinces me that I need to charge my batteries so I can go for an MTB ride and have my gears work, shoot me.
    Hear hear!

    Going for a ride recharges MY batteries. Not the other way around.

    Grumps

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCMDoc View Post
    Perhaps but i am told that the battery was included in the comparison. Latest version is supposedly lighter than last year's.

    Not sure a few grams matter either way unless you're a weight weenie like me (despite the fact I need to lose a couple or 20 pounds).
    Yeah, I guess the electronic is ~20 grams lighter with the internal battery (which is the lighter of the two batteries), but wow, you're right, it's basically a wash. I guess one thing I forgot to leave off my list was price.

  25. #25
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    I guess one thing I forgot to leave off my list was price.
    The electronic saves weight there too. No need to carry the cash that you no longer have.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

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