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  1. #301
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    One of my experimental bikes, built for Dex Henschel in Albert Lea, MN, was a 24/24. I had no real reason to build it, but I hadn't built one, so I did, you see? Plus, it was yellow. Dex's son Mark (near LaCrosse) has it now. I don't think I have any pics of this bike. IT seemed to work pretty well, as I laid out the geometry specifically for the 24s. ONe thing I noticed- when you are riding hard on good traction surfaces, like lava rock, the smaller the wheel, the less the flex, and you can actually feel it. Compared to 20s, 26s feel like they are made of rubber! Yes, 29s would roll over 2" steps easier, but, whoa, I bet they feel gummy on rock.

    19s or 20s are best for hopping, 26s are great for rolling, but 24s are a good "rolling trials" compromise. Especially if the frame is yellow.

  2. #302
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    Anybody got any ideas on somewhere that you could get some shorter square taper,five bolt crankarms, say 165mm or 155mm that would fit and work on a EDGE?

  3. #303
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    You ain't goin' hopper on us, now, are you Scott?

  4. #304
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    NO SIR!! Rolling Technical trail riding.

  5. #305
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    Bless you, my son. That was the correct answer. You may continue your existence.

  6. #306
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    Thank you my father, I vow my allegiance only to you, all wise and knowing one... May all your trails be technical and your sections be clean...
    Last edited by scott murray; 08-26-2012 at 10:38 PM.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Thank you my father, I vow my allegiance only to you, all wise and knowing one... May all your trails be technical and your sections be clean...
    This is getting. Just a little strange.....

    But if I stick the 24" front fork and wheel in I'd lose 2" in height at the front...I think that translates to an even steeper head angle ~3 degrees. Right now it is nearly 74.5 degrees (what day ya think John?)...but as you point out it's only a 3/4" @ the BB.

    A 24/20 would leave the head angle the same as both the front and rear would drop 2". I just don't want to be too unstable.......



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  8. #308
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    Hi Bob, But aren't we all just a little bit unstable? If you decide to go 24/20 I have a shimano deore xt short cage rear derailleur that would help to make up for the smaller rear wheel.

  9. #309
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    Your BB should be too low with a 20, I'd think. It just depends what you think you are doing with the bike, the way you are riding it. I wouldn't go steeper than 74.5 degrees, again depending on what you want to ride. Unless you are experimenting, which I can hardly say anything negative about!

  10. #310
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    Hey Bob, I know your trying to get more standover clearance but I think your bike looks so trick just the way it is.

  11. #311
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    So John, You said before you got two edges from raleigh for coming up with the design, and you mentioned you still had one, might you post some pictures of it for your followers to gaze upon?

  12. #312
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    Yes, I will. It is shockingly close to stock, because it was never my "rider". I always had a "modern" xc bike and a strange bike, depending on the ride.SO the Edge was pretty much a museum bike...

  13. #313
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    Thanks John, So exactly how many bikes do you currently own, So you said in an earlier thread that you own a cannondale Beast of the East? Sweet Bike, Have you seen Bob's Beast? Theirs pictures of it on the forum, Thanks Again.

  14. #314
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    my bikes

    Hey Guys, My one son the computer whiz came over for dinner tonite and I talked him into taking a couple of pictures of my babies and posting them for me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-wp_000155.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-wp_000157.jpg  


  15. #315
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    Nice! You still happy with the single speed? Looks serious!

  16. #316
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    There both serious all right, Seriously slow, But yes I love singlespeed, True you get nowhere fast but I'm just not in that much of a hurry to get anywhere these days, besides in theory you don't get mangled as bad going slow when you spill, Yeah right, I'm seriously thinking about getting some knee/shinguards, got a certain brand you'd recommend, Thanks for the compliments on my bikes, Coming from you that means alot.

  17. #317
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    Hey John, So what ever became of your raven trials bike

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey Guys, My one son the computer whiz came over for dinner tonite and I talked him into taking a couple of pictures of my babies and posting them for me.
    They're almost identical now Scott.
    Looks like you've been doing a little work.

    You know hydraulic rim brakes will mount on rollercam mounts.

    Happy labor day everyone!

    Bob
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  19. #319
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    I had a Raven that I rode for a season, but I gave it back to Dave Gnehm when Angel Rodriguez asked me to design R&E Montagna bikes for him. So I only had one for a little while. They were very good bikes- Dave did a good job with them.

  20. #320
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    Raven & Edge

    posted before but since I started the thread I'm taking liberty to repost. Don't think I'll ever let go of the Raven but Edges are pretty common up here in the NorthWest, I've got two and have flipped two more..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-raven-edge-005.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images

  21. #321
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    Nice to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day, I did not know that about hydraulic rim brakes, Now that's the kind of brakes I'd really like to have, Alas no money for that, So what's up with your bike? Once again good to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day John.

  22. #322
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    That raven is a classic, I would never get rid of that either, Saw that image on mombat's site before thanks for the update, Happy labor day

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Nice to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day, I did not know that about hydraulic rim brakes, Now that's the kind of brakes I'd really like to have, Alas no money for that, So what's up with your bike? Once again good to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day John.
    Not much going on...I'm in a real flat part of the country right now and the Edge is home in the basement. Last time out was with Josh. It climbed well. No spinning. However, I suffer from tired old out of shape body....my heart monitor was hitting 160 riding with Josh at Victor mountain bike park...I didn't try any jumps or steep descents...I am going back to a singlespeed though. I've typically run 30 gear inches...but being that I'm older and slower, it would seem a 24" might be better until I get back in shape.....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  24. #324
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    Hey Bob, This is not bike related,I Hope You and your family are okay and have not been affected by the weather,Tell me all is well..

  25. #325
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    Hey John, I went to yahoo, typed in 26 bmx, clicked on images and in the third row down,far left picture, under the wording page 2, was this 26/20 bmx bike, made me think of you and the rhino bike you said you built, That's really trick looking in an odd sort of way,Put a little chainring on it, Put some knobby tires on it,change the bar and stem and tell me that wouldn't be fun to go play on. Make sure to space between 26 and bmx or it won't show it.
    Last edited by scott murray; 09-09-2012 at 04:14 PM. Reason: spelling

  26. #326
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    Speaking of small wheels, have any of you done any riding on a 29er? I can't imagine they would be very good on our ultra-steep stuff...

  27. #327
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    Not I,Everything newer way to expensive, Besides I really like my edges,But I've become interested in the 26/20 setup from the good old days, So who besides you and ibis used to make 26/20 bikes and whatever happened to the rhino, I like the idea of the small back wheel for coming down off of logs, Less likely to flip over on you, The natural wood furniture place down the street from my house has this one log that I had a mishap coming down off of the last time I went their and I mangled my left knee on the asphalt, (by the way none of you guys got back to me on what brand of knee/shinguards you thought were best) Anyways now everytime I go back down their I'm real leary of that log and it's not even as big as some I've gone over before,Just got to go and kick it's ass a few times,Any of you know of any site that has pictures of any 26/20 trials bikes or any pictures of any old vintage trials bikes or photo's of old trials events?

  28. #328
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    Raleigh "The Edge"-uploadfromtaptalk1348582487222.jpg

    Maybe you should try jumping/hopping off......
    When I use to ride over picnic tables I quickly learned to jump off and land on the rear wheel just slightly before the front wheel. If I didn't it was a guaranteed face plant!

    Stay safe my friend.
    and drink wisely....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Speaking of small wheels, have any of you done any riding on a 29er? I can't imagine they would be very good on our ultra-steep stuff...

    No I have not embraced the 29er marketing foofoo.
    However, guaranteed higher bottom bracket than typical 26" mtb. But wait, look at those looonnnggg chainstays and slack headangles..... and the standover height just scares me....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  30. #330
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    My buffalo bike was eventually bought by one Bill Hoffer, who now lives in Eastern Washington and I hope is not burning up. I only built one that way, primarily so I could have a rolling bike with a really "grippy in the wet" 20" trials tire. The point about coming off of logs is a good one- you have much more crotch clearance when you get way back. I don't know of any pictures... I used to wear Trace soccer pads, well before there were "freeride" pads. They were mainly cloth but had a footstrap and a plastic layer on the outside and about a half inch of padding. I loved them. Worried less about knee pads.

  31. #331
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    I put a 20" x 2.0" Maxxis Creepy Crawler, a real sticky tire on back.

    It just looks strange....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  32. #332
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    Going steep uphill it wants to "wheelie" very easily; almost too easily.
    I haven't tried real steep downies yet....
    That requires the removal of the seat (on this old Edge, the seat won't drop all the way down) to work well as you indicated.
    It would be delightful if I could just find a 19" x 2.5" trials wheel and tire (assembled). I certainly have the chainstay space for it.

    Scott, you indicated that Ibis made a 26"x20"???

    Sincerely,
    Buffalo BOB
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  33. #333
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    So Bob, You outdid yourself this time, Strange looking yes but I have to say after sitting here looking at it for a few minutes it grows on you, I Like It!! I bet with the creepy crawler it gets great traction, Man I'd love to ride that, See how it feels, So you going to go into the custom bike business I might have to send you one of mine? So the Big Cheese must have made that alot easier. The ibis was an experimental bike back when they were trying different wheel sizes, 20/20, 26/24, 26/20, 24/20, Don't know if the 26/20 ever made it to the production stage or not, Hey how about a 29/24 Technical trail rolling trials bike, LETS BRING BACK THE STRANGE BIKES, Nice Job Bob Looks Cool...

  34. #334
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    Hey John,Thanks for the info. So what do you think of buffalo Bobs latest creation? You and Bob should get into the custom bike business together and bring back the multisize wheeled Strange Bikes, So Bob How do you like your bike the way you have it set up now? Lots of top tube clearance now I bet.

  35. #335
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    Why not a 29/24? It just depends on what you really trying to ride. I think a 29 will always be flexible and clumsy in tight, tech stuff. I think a 26/24 might be about optimum, IF you could get good tires!!!

    Bob, there is a secret to stand up climbing. I'll tell/show you for one mocha.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post

    Bob, there is a secret to stand up climbing. I'll tell/show you for one mocha.
    Ok. Shoot away....

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  37. #337
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    Hey John, I agree with you on the 26/24 being about the best setup there is, the mountain trials bike was such a cool concept,a mountain bike that excels at tight technical rolling trials type terrain.

  38. #338
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    OK, here goes. There will be a quiz, so pay attention.

    When climbing seated, you try to keep some weight on the front tire by leaning forward, and then sliding forward on the seat, so that the front wheel doesn't come up during pedal powerstrokes. Eventually, as the hill gets steeper, you run out of seat. Not every local has hills like this; some places don't have the soil strength to let you climb extremely steep hills (gravel, for instance, or sand).

    Key is, a tire can transmit tractive forces as a function of how hard it is being pressed into the dirt. The more you push down, the harder a tractive force you can transmit into the ground. When you stand up, the natural tendency is for your naughty bits to go forward, and to stand nearly straight up. When you do this, you unload the rear tire. If you move back for more grip, you unload the front tire. Result? No makee. Crashee. Say hill is impossible, go home.

    Trick: Keep your head low, over the stem, butt back, arms bent, elbows out. Find a fore/aft location where there is statically enough weight on the front tire so you don't wheelie. Now, on every downstroke of a pedal, pull the handlebars back toward your navel! This dynamically jams the bike down on the rear tire contact patch and gives you great traction for an instant. If you time it right, and get the right body position, you can climb amazing slopes, slopes that you would be nervous about ridiing down. Ask Josh! A freind of mine crashed twice last week riding down a slope that a couple of us, using this technique, had just ridden up! Warning- this puts a strain on your upper back and neck (dont' ask me how I know).

    You can also move back a little, and intentionally lift the front wheel during power pulses to place it laterally so you don't have to steer. As everybody should know, steering on a steep climb leads to ignominy and death, or at least dirt.

  39. #339
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    someone said Ibis?

    posted before...enjoy

    pic 1, Ibis Trials Comp 20x20

    pic 2, Ibis, Kebo, R&E Montana, Edge, Raven

    John, any idea how many R&E Montanas were built?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by da'HOOV; 09-28-2012 at 09:28 PM.

  40. #340
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    So John, that's sort of like climbing out of the saddle while in the drops on a road bike isn't it?
    And its gotta keep chiropractors in business....

    Not to offend Josh, but I actually haven't watched him ride...nor will I....just does not have the right body parts to keep my attention...

    Sent from my DROID4 from another but equivalent time-space point on a differential manifold....
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  41. #341
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    So John,
    Have the following thoughts about your "trick" climbing technique and rear wheel size and climbing in general:

    Traction is driven fundamentally by two things: coefficient of friction between the two surface that are in contact, and the force that is normal to the two surfaces that are in contact.

    The largest force that can be applied on a bicycle is the weight of the rider and bike. The maximum force is when you are in a wheelie, i.e., all weight is on the rear tire. This of coarse is difficult for most people to control. This force is the same whether you are sitting on a seat or standing.

    As the hill you are trying to climb gets steeper, the normal force is reduced. In the limiting case, you cannot climb vertical surfaces (although Mr. McAskill seems to be able to roll up them quite well or unless you are taking LSD). This is because the force normal between the surfaces is zero.

    To move forward (uphill) you have to pedal. The amount of force applied to the surface to move you forward is the tangential force applied through the rear tire at the area of contact between the tire surface and the hill surface. This is proportional to the force of your body weight.

    The Energy expending going up the hill a fixed distance is merely equal to sum of the riders body weight plus the bicycles weight times the fixed distance that the two move up the hill.

    Your no seat technique seems to allow you to adjust the force (body weight and bike weight) applied to the rear tire to maximize the normal force while also maximizing the tangential force applied at the rear wheel through the gears and crank from the riders legs transferring at most his body weight.

    When the tangential force at the rear tire contact patch exceeds the normal force at the contact patch times the coefficient of friction..."Result? No makee. Crashee. Say hill is impossible, go home. "

    So coefficient of friction:
    Which will climb better a 20", 24", 26" or a 29"?
    It has been proven by many that the contact patch AREA is independent of the wheel diameter and is simply related to the force being applied and the pressure of the tire.
    What does change is the length and width of the contact area with wheel size so that the contact patch area stays constant.

    On loose surfaces, the tire tread design and the soil "strength" if you will, influence the coefficient of friction. Lower tire pressure increases the contact patch area and combined with the tread design, allow it to "bite" or pinch/compress the soil more.

    The only thing that a smaller wheel in the rear will help climbing better is shortening the chain stays to put more weight on the rear wheel without sacrificing front wheel control. I bet if you could put the cranks at the rear axle, you'd do it.

    So is the Edge design any better than say a 29er for climbing...certainly it is!
    Why: weight distribution and control of that distribution for balancing the normal force and the tangential force at the contact patch area.

    Are StrangeBikes with ultra-short chainstays any better than an Edge...damn straight they are!!!!

    Next we should discuss rolling off large logs and determine if 29" wheels have any advantage there...

    Sent from my DROID4 through a worm hole...I'm actually in Pennsylvania at the same time I'm in Washington...or New York...
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  42. #342
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    Yes we should have discussings on rolling off large logs or dicussions on just riding over them in general, and by the way we are having to cut down a tree in our backyard and I've taken advantage of it by taking sections of large branches and putting them in my driveway so that I have a nice little four log trials section, A little larger would be better but it's quite fun none the less, Oh and by the way after I played on those I went down to the before mentioned log I mangled my knee on and cleaned it several times, Had a very fun day...

  43. #343
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    Abaris, that's great except for one issue- you can get more than your total bike/body weight into the rear tire contact patch using dynamics. F = MA.

    This technique allows you to climb very steep stuff on normal chainstay bikes. It isn't "trick" - it is just physics, and out here, you either learn it or you walk up the steeper climbs...

  44. #344
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    So explain to us stupid people what M and A are.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  45. #345
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    No stupid people here, just trials riders!

    If you want to jump into the air, you push hard against the ground (F) to accelerate (A) your M (mass) so that you can leave the ground. You push harder than your weight when you jump, and you exert a force on the ground greater than your weight when you land. The difference is ... dynamics (not the same as Dianetics). When you pull back on your bars, the bike tries to cock underneath you and rear up. It can't rear up easily because your mass is in the way, so it pushes up on you and down on the earth through the rear tire. Smoosh. For an instant, you can have 2x the normal force pushing the tire into the dirt, and thus, for that instant, you can transmit 2x the tractive force to accelerate or climb. You have to time that instant to coincide with the chain tension created by the pedal downstroke. And no, it doesn't hurt your back, but it makes it tired.

  46. #346
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    So you're hopping.....

    So if john weighs 190 lbs. And he can jump say 360mm, what was the initial acceleration?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  47. #347
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    No, I'm cocking or rocking. Rear wheel never gets off the ground; front can. Enough with the equations, already- try it, it works.

    PS- That Ibis is beautiful! Scot Nicoll came up and rode one of my trials events in the early 80s, and I could never afford one of his lovely bikes. Sad. I think they were the best.

  48. #348
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    WOW! That was a lot of technical talk causing a deer in the head lights effect. Being a simple guy I stick with K.I.S.S. generally chanting to myself

    "This is my rifle, this is my gun. This one's for shooting, this ones for fun." All while grabbing myself inappropriately.

    Bob, don't worry it takes a lot more then that to offend me.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  49. #349
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    John,
    I certainly never said I wouldn't try it. I'm sure I used similar techniques in my younger years. (Parenthetically
    , or perhaps heretically, unless the said person and bike leave the ground, the amount of force applied is F=M x g where g is the acceleration due to gravity).

    So Josh, I Guess you really are a Marine. But I'm not interested in your rifle and especially not your fun gun...

    I would like to see the StrangeBike12 and see the bike climb up the steeper parts of Dryer (so long as you don't touch your gun).


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  50. #350
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    Gunny Hartman is a MOTIVATOR!

    More Edge please.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  51. #351
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    Raleigh "The Edge"-uploadfromtaptalk1349308579866.jpg

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  52. #352
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    That seat post looks dangerous! Bob are you going for extra traction utilizing your pedals? haha.. Next question, is The Edge going to be ready for Dryer tomorrow morning?
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  53. #353
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    So Bob, May I ask why you decided to go 20/20? Isn't that more suited to hopping style then rolling style? Where do you keep coming up with all these parts? Your garage must be like a candy store.

  54. #354
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    Josh,
    No. And yes, although only single speed. In any event, the trusty Cannondale is always ready to go.

    Scott,
    What your actually witnessing is the twilight zone....actually the parts come from two or three other bikes that are continually canabalized...

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
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  55. #355
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    Definitely the strangest bike I have ever ridden.

    Sent from my DROID4 at Victor mtb park.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-uploadfromtaptalk1349364314716.jpg  

    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  56. #356
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    That is delightfully strange! Congratulations! Do you get puzzled looks?

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    That is delightfully strange! Congratulations! Do you get puzzled looks?
    Thanks John.
    I would rather think of it as delightfully different as it has a seat. No seat->Strange. Small wheels/larger frame ->Different.

    Got some puzzled looks but really I looked puzzled riding it. IT REALLY IS NOT A DOWNHILL BIKE. And its not really a mod class trials bike. It rides rough....oh those little wheels are STIFF.

    I just need to invest in some wheels.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  58. #358
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    Gyroscopic forces from big wheels really do have a stabilizing effect, don't they? You also have to keep your weight back and the power on over little trippy obstacles, because the small wheels want to come to an abrupt halt when bigger wheels would roll right over. But in rock gardens, they are very handy! And on wet rock, if you have much of it, I bet those sticky tires feel REAL good.

    What the heck fork is that?!?

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Gyroscopic forces from big wheels really do have a stabilizing effect, don't they? You also have to keep your weight back and the power on over little trippy obstacles, because the small wheels want to come to an abrupt halt when bigger wheels would roll right over. But in rock gardens, they are very handy! And on wet rock, if you have much of it, I bet those sticky tires feel REAL good.

    What the heck fork is that?!?
    Actually, is was the "twitchyness" of the front end when turning going downhill.
    I'm not sure the difference in gyroscopic forces actually make much difference as slow as I go, but perhaps they do. Maybe so and I was able to turn the wheel easier.

    The fork is from CarbonCycles.CC :: Components :: Gallery called an eXotic Rigid Al for a 700c / 29er wheels and 465mm axle to crown distance to replace 100mm travel suspension forks (if you can imagine doing that). This picks up the front end a bit. The fork offset is 42mm and on the modified edge frame the head angle measured around 73 degrees. Maybe this makes for a small trail distance and maybe twitchy handling.

    (It also happen that a 700c fork with vbrake mounts has the mounts in the right place for a V-brake adapter to work with 20" wheels.)

    It is just different.
    There was no problem just lofting the front end over stuff; it is really light in the front end.
    The fork is light and the 20" wheel is light compared to the 26 and the difference makes this a wheelie machine.
    In fact, with a seat you can act like a jack-in-the-box and easily loft the front end while seated and then spring up off the seat while pulling the handle bars up and the rear wheel just follows.
    Probably if the obstacles where greater than 10" then the rear might want to come to an abrupt halt after you have lofted the front wheel over, which means you interact in a painful way with the handlebar stem. But really, a 24" wheel would "stall" just about as fast. A 26" might keep going but it too would let you know it was there.

    The tires work on roots and rocks wet or dry. Softer and stickyer. but I haven;t really ridden it that much.

    You should get your little 20" Strangebike back in to rolling order. Then we could meet up at Moab Slickrock and have a blast!!!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  60. #360
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    Hope it is ok to post here as this represents one of Mr. Olson's designs.

  61. #361
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    Found this old Cannondale SM 500 in my neighbors field

  62. #362
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    I am fairly certain it is a 1984, 1st generation SM 500 at it had the old side pull BMX brake and the sleaved seatpost with the SR La Prade BMX post.

  63. #363
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    OK, here come the photos, had to get my post count to 10 before I could add pics

  64. #364
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    Here it is as found in the field, 24" rear wheel and 13" bottom bracket = SWEETNESS

    <a href="http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0571.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0571.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    Here is the frame torn down:

    <a href="http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0579.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0579.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    I sprayed the frame with aircraft paint stripper from NAPA, hated to waste the old paint but it was shot:

    <a href="http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0651.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0651.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    And here is the stripped frame:

    <a href="http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0653.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0653.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

  65. #365
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    Awesome! Another resurrection. You should start a build or rebuild thread for it.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  66. #366
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    Here's the old girl built back up. Kind of a funky fork but 1" steerer tube forks are getting awfully hard to find. Painted the frame with spray on bed liner from NAPA. Have had pretty good luck with this stuff and it's easy to touch up. Always wanted one of these old 24-26 Cdales and this is now my primary elk hunting rig.

    <a href="http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0716.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0716.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    Wanted to get away from the BMX style side pull rear brake and tracked down a first generation Odysee Pitbull BMX Rollercam. Works great considering there are no brake studs in the seat or chain stays:

    <a href="http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0717.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0717.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

  67. #367
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    Rear wheel is still the original, with a specialized hub and Sun - Cannondale rim. Have an old WTB Geaseguard that I want to get reset from 135 to 130mm spacing and have a new rear wheel built up. Still remember my first book on mountain biking back in mid to late 80's that had several photos of Mr. Olsen riding his Raven over logs and drops basically right through the forest. Always remember back to those pictures and the idea of a "deep woods" bike for the Northwest.

  68. #368
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    That brings back memories! Nice job! Good save. Cannondale gave me two of these for working on the design (I didn't really design it- I sent them drawings and suggestions, but they did a lot of their own stuff), but I guess I sold/traded them away in the 80s. Wish I had one now!

  69. #369
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    Very Nice.
    That looks like an eXotic Fork!!

    I always wanted one of those.
    and an Edge.
    and an Ibis Mt. Trials.
    and an Ibis Trials Pro (or Comp)
    .
    .
    .
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  70. #370
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    Hey Guys, So I see we have a new member, Welcome aboard treebeard,You'll find us to be a freindly bunch, Nice Cannondale, You did a great job on the rebuild, Always wanted a 26/24 cannondale, So Bob how do you like your latest edge creation? I wish maxxis made creepy crawlers in 26 inch and 24 inch sizes, I really like the looks of that tread pattern.

  71. #371
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    Hey Guys, Can anybody tell me which is the better quality freewheel, a 6 speed shimano MF-TZ20 or a 6 speed shimano HG22? Thanks Scott

  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    So Bob how do you like your latest edge creation? I wish maxxis made creepy crawlers in 26 inch and 24 inch sizes, I really like the looks of that tread pattern.
    20" tires are extremely sensitive to tire pressure...
    The 20/20 setup, although temporary, handled quite well and seemed lighter. I made a change to the frontend and is now a 24". That's right, a 24/20 that is very similar to an ibis trials comp. BB height roughly 12" and a ~73 degree head angle. However, I notice that my pedals where hitting stuff on the trail, so maybe not an ideal trail bike. But I've ordered an axle for my edge 24" rear wheel so soon it'll be back to normal 26/24 edge.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  73. #373
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    So Bob, Would you please post a couple pictures of it while it's still a 24/20? I'd like to see how it looks before you change it again, How about some shorter crank arms, say maybe 155mm's.

  74. #374
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    Scott,
    Are you a closet HOPPER?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  75. #375
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    Hey Buffalo Bob,You said that with the 24/20 setup your pedals were hitting stuff on the trails so maybe shorter crankarms would help, I don't hop in the closet to likely to hit my head, So anybody know which of those frewheels I asked about is better?

  76. #376
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    Scott, I'm sorry but I don't remember which freewheels used to last more than a week... I know we had found some that lived maybe 6 months, or at least a summer, and some that broke RIGHT NOW. But then, in 2004 I broke a box of 12 Shimano freehub bodies in 3 months, so it's not like they've progressed! If you are strong and really riding the steeps, try to find a pre-disc Hugi or Chris King. And, oh, paint Suntour on it.

  77. #377
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    Thanks John, Got an old about 1988 diamondback apex off of craigslist that I want to fix up and give to one of my son's for christmas or his birthday in feburary depending on how long it takes me to go through it and I want to replace the freewheel, It's an 18 speed and I wanted to replace it with whichever was a better quality freewheel, These two are still easily available brand new. Thanks John.

  78. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey Buffalo Bob,You said that with the 24/20 setup your pedals were hitting stuff on the trails so maybe shorter crankarms would help,
    Where in the world would I get those?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  79. #379
    hmmm.
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    I've been looking for one of these bikes for a while. Anyone know where I could find a good original Edge for sale?

  80. #380
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    Hi, David,

    You might try a "wanted to buy" ad in MTBR's classified section! That or just Uncle Google. They aren't impossible to find, but they aren't common either. Somebody on this group may have one for sale, too.

  81. #381
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    Hey David9999999,I bought one from da/'Hoov back when he was stan4bikes on this forum quite some time back, So da/'Hoov can you help david out? He seems to have excellent taste in bikes?

  82. #382
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    Oh buy the way, Happy Halloween Everybody!!!

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey David9999999,I bought one from da/'Hoov back when he was stan4bikes on this forum quite some time back, So da/'Hoov can you help david out? He seems to have excellent taste in bikes?
    now I'm gonna get in trouble again ;-)...nobody on this forum has EVER bought anything from me! No one has EVER contacted me about selling anything I've posted! ohhh..except for maybe a few members including a couple Illuminati and maybe a Moderator or two :-)

  84. #384
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    Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.

  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.
    That's okay, Scott. It's fine. da'Hoov just has an attitude problem. Don't mind him.

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.
    no problem Scott..all in fun :-)

    [QUOTE=girlonbike]That's okay, Scott. It's fine. da'Hoov just has an attitude problem. Don't mind him.[QUOTE]

    Thanx for the kind words Madamn Moderator

  87. #387
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    So Bob, How are you and your family holding up against the storms back there? Everybody okay? Hey David,keep an eye out on craigslist I've seen them there every once in a while, Good Luck, I'll keep an eye out for you.

  88. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    so bob, how are you and your family holding up against the storms back there? Everybody okay?
    aok.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  89. #389
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    So John, Did you ever use biopace chainrings back in the days and if so what did you think of them? I used to have them on an old ross Mt. Hood, and this diamondback I got had them on it so I stole the 28 tooth granny ring and put it on one of my Edges and I am looking around for a 26 tooth for the other, so far I have found two new ones on ebay but one is 90.00 and the other is 60.00 bucks, talk about being greedy, anyways I always liked them, still do so what do you think? Bob I'm glad to here you and your family are okay, anything new going on with you or just surviving the storms?

  90. #390
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    Scott, I did get a lot of time on biopace rings back in the day, and I really disliked them. The physics is that power is the integral of force times velocity, integrated around the whole stroke. The BP rings speed your legs up on the powerful downstroke, and slow them up at TDC and BDC when you aren't making any power anyway. They really worked on long aerobic pulls, BUT... they stalled you out on the top or bottom when you were trying to climb or clean a difficult section. In fact, for that use, they needed to be 90 degrees the other way, so that you got through the dead band quicker, not slower. I just rode some the other day on a bike I was repairing, and UGH. I think they reflected how most folks ride, but they were really bad for agressive offroad riders who climb challenging stuff. Sorry! Just my opinion, but I'd put 'em on a cruising bike and not on a trials-ish bike.

  91. #391
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    Oh well, I guess it's back to the roundies for me, Besides roundies will give me more gearing choices, thanks for the physics lesson, I guess this means I owe you another coffee.

  92. #392
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    So John, There is a tab on the chainring that when you mount it the tab is supposed to be behind the crankarm what if I just mounted it 90 degrees off from that would it work or just take it off?

  93. #393
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    I don't remember if you can just rotate them or not. Seems like I remember some problem with that, but you could try it. Maybe it was the 5 bolts back then- you couldn't get the oval in the right orientation (very low at top and bottom of stroke). My buddy may be willing to swap his good condition ones for some good round rings... I could ask him.

  94. #394
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    You can, because when I first mounted it I had the mounting tab 90 degrees off, I was on the net on sheldon browns site and it mentioned the tab and where it's supposed to be when mounted and I had it off by 90 degrees, (how do you like that) My question is if I do that would it work like you were saying get you through the dead spots quicker and improve you through the power points or just take it off, When I had it mounted wrong and I first rode around on it it felt like it was slipping like when you first put on a freewheel and it tightens as you pedal around, Does that make any sense?

  95. #395
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    My mistake when I mounted it the first time it was 180 degrees off not 90 degrees, I was just out looking at my bike and realized it, so mounted correctly when the cranks are horizontal the chainring is narrow and when the crank arms are vertical the chainring is wide and for it to work the way you say it should it should be just the opposite, correct? All this thinking is giving my a headache I think I'll just put my round one back on, Sorry for wasting your time...

  96. #396
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    Scott, think of it like gear ratio- for a given speed along the ground, if you are in a lower gear, your feet are moving faster. So if the chainring is small at the top, you are in a lower gear ratio at that point. So to avoid being stalled at TDC, you want the 'ring to be smaller when the cranks are up and down.

    I don't think I ever tried this (i just dumped them and put round rings on), but I'm sure it would work, and it might even be better than round.

  97. #397
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    How do you rotate the rings 90 degrees on a 5 bolt crank? I guess you'd be close at 72 degrees by rotating the ring by 1 bolt hole.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  98. #398
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    Hey John, You explained that in a really easy to understand way, makes total sense to me, Now why do you suppose when they designed them they didn't realize that as obvious as it is explained the way you explained it? Guess I owe you another coffee huh, Man there starting to add up aren't they? Thanks

  99. #399
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    Well I guess since I'm going to change back to a round ring anyways I'll try rotating the biopace to see how close I can get it just to see.

  100. #400
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    So John how about this,Copy the biopace design more or less, make it for a four bolt crank so you could mount it so the chainring is narrowest when the crank arms are vertical and name it the Olsen OvalTech Power Enhancing Chainring?

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