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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    and $100 Bridgestone XO 1 Fork Orange Rivendell Vintage Bike Retro Bike RB 1 MB 1 | eBay

    with it being probably closer to the latter.
    Help me out here, since I'm "new" to the vintage hobby...

    Our product manager went into a 3-month funk which cleared up only when John Stamstad set a new Michigan 24-Hour road record and a new World 24-Hour Off-Road record with these [moustache] bars.
    I'd like to think I have an eye for beautiful lugwork, but I'm in over my head, here. Is that what makes this fork worth $100, or is it a rarity thing? Is it the reputation of the bike it came on, or of the fork itself? If anyone catches my drift. I know what framesets I used to drool over in the 80's (Colnago, Kestrel) when I bought more-affordable Treks, but I don't know what makes them valuable by today's standards?

    If it's the lugwork, this thing's a beauty (u kiddin me), why only $100? I guess is what I'm asking. Just trying to get my feet under me as to what parts I respected as a kid, are actually considered valuable today, seems like a beautiful lugged fork still being made in '93 should be worth more? Help!

  2. #202
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    Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)

    Quote Originally Posted by bikefat View Post
    Help me out here, since I'm "new" to the vintage hobby...



    I'd like to think I have an eye for beautiful lugwork, but I'm in over my head, here. Is that what makes this fork worth $100, or is it a rarity thing? Is it the reputation of the bike it came on, or of the fork itself? If anyone catches my drift. I know what framesets I used to drool over in the 80's (Colnago, Kestrel) when I bought more-affordable Treks, but I don't know what makes them valuable by today's standards?

    If it's the lugwork, this thing's a beauty (u kiddin me), why only $100? I guess is what I'm asking. Just trying to get my feet under me as to what parts I respected as a kid, are actually considered valuable today, seems like a beautiful lugged fork still being made in '93 should be worth more? Help!
    I would call than a cast crown rather than lugged.

    The fork is relatively rare, and Bridgestone. Not a generic model. Any "nice" fork of that era (which this type is) is going to be used up (bent/cracked) or nearly unused.
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  3. #203
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    How about a XTR 952 grouppo. Its on my Kona Hot right now, but I want to make the Hot into a SS, as I finally bought a new bike.

    Cranks, front and rear Derailleurs, cassette, brakes, brake lever/shifter combo. All in 'EXCELLENT' shape.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    I would call than a cast crown rather than lugged.

    The fork is relatively rare, and Bridgestone. Not a generic model. Any "nice" fork of that era (which this type is) is going to be used up (bent/cracked) or nearly unused.
    I was just poking around the Bridgestone section of Sheldon Brown's website and came across the '93 catalog, it said they only produced 1000 MB1's.

    There's a lot of good info there: 1993 Bridgestone Bicycle Catalogue

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefat View Post
    Help me out here, since I'm "new" to the vintage hobby.
    I can be of some help since I sell a lot of vintage bikes and parts.

    (my examples will be road bikes just because that is what I know best)

    Some old bikes are rare but not very valuable because there is little demand. An example might be the Centurion Cinelli which was produced in very small numbers but was never very highly regarded. As a result you can buy one for a few hundred dollars.

    Other bikes are common but expensive because they were great bikes at the time and they continue to have a following. The Gilco tubed Colnago Master was mass produced but they command high prices because many people still want them.

    The most expensive models obviously will be both rare and desired like a '60s Rene Herse. Crazy money, particularly the demountable and camping models.

    The reason that the "what is my bike worth" question is so loaded is that there are a myriad of factors that will affect value including: condition, originality, rare features, popular sizes, popular colors and even willingness to ship overseas.

    In the end the old adage is the only one that matters: value is what a willing seller and a willing buyer agree to...

    Steven

  6. #206
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    Hey,
    I've been lurking on this site forever now and I finally have a question I cant figure out. I found this bike the other day at the goodwill and bought it for the nukeproof hubs and the cook bros. cranks. It turns out the frame and fork are titanium but have 0 markings on them, not even a serial number. Can anyone tell me what they think it might be and what the parts/complete bike might be worth. I'm not trying to sell it I'm just curious.
    heres the pictures:
    random Photo Album - Pinkbike

  7. #207
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    Lots of cool stuff on there, fork looks to be a Litespeed. Not sure on the frame, nice pickup.
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  8. #208
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    one-off
    looking for 20-21" P team

  9. #209
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    Here's a closer picture of the forks. I don't think they are litespeeds.Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)-photo-13-.jpg

  10. #210
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    It looks like one of those Russian or Chinese Ti frames that have been floating around for the last 15 years.

  11. #211
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    Is this thing on?

    Testing, testing. 1-2
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  12. #212
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    It's on H. I heard you loud an clear.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  13. #213
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    I definitely stand corrected. Didnt think of One Off, good call.
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  14. #214
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    must be one of these:
    http://mombat.org/OOTI17.JPG

  15. #215
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    If it is a One Off, what are they worth?

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by cortolillo87 View Post
    If it is a One Off, what are they worth?
    If the bike itself is in great mechanical condition and the frame isn't cracked, then you might have a bike that will sell for $400-$600 depending on the demand. Of course this price is based upon the average Ti bike that is sold on Criagslist but there may be a One-off collector out there who will give you more.
    As it looks, it needs a fair amount of work and some polishing to get it ready for sale.

  17. #217
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    Once again, you have no idea what you're looking at. This isnt a Litespeed or a Ti Kona here.
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  18. #218
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    Once again I think I'm more correct than not. Ti bikes aren't anything super special other than the fact that they are Titanium. This particular one is only rare because of its' uniqueness but that doesn't mean the price is sky high. Maybe if it was in pristine condition it would be a different issue. I'm sure there are some collectors of these bikes out there and they're willing to pay a great deal higher than what I think it's worth.
    After reading up on One-off, it has some interesting history behind it and some interesting collaborations along the way. To me, they also seem to be drastically over-priced too.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    I'm sure there are some collectors of these bikes out there and they're willing to pay a great deal higher than what I think it's worth.
    The owner didn't ask what it was worth to you personally. Some might say $20. It is probably more useful to him to know what the "great deal higher" number is, and that's the point of this WIW thread. If you don't know that number, then please resist the urge to respond.

  20. #220
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    Yep, I found this old car, antique really.

    Looked to be an early Ford, yet, not. Turns out, Henry spun off a little company to the side, where he massaged his ideas, refining at a more rapid, and distinctive pace, since he wasn't part of the larger, slower moving company he was the head of.

    I asked around, it's true, and I got the car at a flea market for 50 bucks.

    Surely it's just the same as any old Model A or something, worth what your average Model A is worth, right?

    One-Off Titanium History
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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleCentury View Post
    The owner didn't ask what it was worth to you personally. Some might say $20. It is probably more useful to him to know what the "great deal higher" number is, and that's the point of this WIW thread. If you don't know that number, then please resist the urge to respond.
    So, let me get this straight. Since you obviously think my opinion on what it's worth differs from yours, then I am wrong and yours is right?
    In guessing that you must have the official VRC price guide in your hands and you're saying to yourself, " I can finally prove that zygote is talking out of his ass".
    That would clearly be the point except that there is no price guide and the "what's it worth" forum isn't addressed to the guy who holds the nonexistent VRC price guide. I'm guessing it's all subjective and based upon someone's opinion.
    I see Ti bikes in my area on CL for $500-$2000 at any given time. Obviously if there's a particular person interested in exactly what you have, they might pay more for it.
    Sometimes when you de-mystify the bullshit that is preached as gospel around here, you come to a realistic conclusion. Everyone is in it for the money, otherwise they wouldn't be posting here.

  22. #222
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    And one's opinion is based on someones experience. So....I'd take DC or FB's opinions long before yours.
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  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    And one's opinion is based on someones experience. So....I'd take DC or FB's opinions long before yours.
    that's a fair and valid assertion if you're only basing it upon experience and popularity, but if you base it upon prices of other similar bikes on CL, then my opinion is just as good as theirs.
    To put it in a different light, on this particular bike, I am considered the low range and they are considered the high range.
    Somewhere in the middle will keep the buyer and the seller happy.

  24. #224
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    What I don't see you taking into account is that this is not a production builder. Not even close. Feel free to find me a list of previously sold frames of like lineage in your stated price range and I'll be more than happy to eat my words.
    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    that's a fair and valid assertion if you're only basing it upon experience and popularity, but if you base it upon prices of other similar bikes on CL, then my opinion is just as good as theirs.
    To put it in a different light, on this particular bike, I am considered the low range and they are considered the high range.
    Somewhere in the middle will keep the buyer and the seller happy.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

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    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  25. #225
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    It's not a mass produced frame but it wasn't exactly a limited production run either. I'm willing to bet there were at least several thousand frames built. As I stated before, there are people who desire odd bikes and are willing to pay more for them. Find me the last 5 that went for sale and I'll eat my words.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    It's not a mass produced frame but it wasn't exactly a limited production run either. I'm willing to bet there were at least several thousand frames built. Find me the last 5 that went for sale and I'll eat my words.
    You just really don't get it, do you?

    A couple 1000 produced? Did you even bother to read the history that Mombat pulled together?

    Try some research before opening you box of opinions, as it stands, you end up fairly consistently sounding like the blustery guy at a Picasso and Dali sale, talking about how those weird pictures aren't worth anything cause the subjects ain't real lookin'......

    I'm willing to accept your concept of it being worth what someone's willing to pay and all, when it's something "production", in fact I think most of us will agree with you on that to a certain extent, but when something rare and or unusual comes up, that methodology just doesn't play.

    You seem patently unwilling to learn from the collective knowledge here, rail against it in fact. What's being espoused here, is no different than any other collector market. Be it cars, furniture, sewing machines, whatever. There's the normal run of the mill, there's the rare, and then there's the mack daddy pieces that stand out for any number of reasons.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  27. #227
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    Read the articles on One Off from the MOMAT site...now I really want to see one of the ti "bubble" pipes.



    Steve

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    Once again I think I'm more correct than not. Ti bikes aren't anything super special other than the fact that they are Titanium. This particular one is only rare because of its' uniqueness but that doesn't mean the price is sky high.
    Am I to assume that the price of an aluminum Cunningham is worth about the same as an aluminum Trek mountain bike? If so, please let me know when you're selling something nice.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    It looks like one of those Russian or Chinese Ti frames that have been floating around for the last 15 years.
    I'm impressed by how you keep outdoing yourself. Epic trolling!
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  30. #230
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    Thanks for all the help everyone. How rare is this bike and what quality is it?

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    You just really don't get it, do you?

    A couple 1000 produced? Did you even bother to read the history that Mombat pulled together?

    Try some research before opening you box of opinions, as it stands, you end up fairly consistently sounding like the blustery guy at a Picasso and Dali sale, talking about how those weird pictures aren't worth anything cause the subjects ain't real lookin'......

    I'm willing to accept your concept of it being worth what someone's willing to pay and all, when it's something "production", in fact I think most of us will agree with you on that to a certain extent, but when something rare and or unusual comes up, that methodology just doesn't play.

    You seem patently unwilling to learn from the collective knowledge here, rail against it in fact. What's being espoused here, is no different than any other collector market. Be it cars, furniture, sewing machines, whatever. There's the normal run of the mill, there's the rare, and then there's the mack daddy pieces that stand out for any number of reasons.
    If you know exact numbers, please inform us. It's reasonable to expect that a frame builder who was in operation for 5 or more years would probably have made at least 200 frames a year but that's purely speculative.
    What I gathered from the Mombat articles on One-off is that they had a great marketing program and sold really expensive bikes.
    OP- sorry for my digressions. Your bike is worth a fortune. Hold onto it.

  32. #232
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    A bit of friendly advice..

    If you don't stop making shit up while attempting to sound like you know what you're talking about, you're going to cement your reputation as resident fcukwit, and nobody will take anything you have to say seriously
    looking for 20-21" P team

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by cortolillo87 View Post
    If it is a One Off, what are they worth?
    I'm not sure anyone has said it - GOODWILL!?!?!

    I want to see your Goodwill store! The ones around here mostly sell used sweatpants.
    Don't call it a gooseneck.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jak0zilla View Post
    I want to see your Goodwill store!
    Stellar point!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by cortolillo87 View Post
    Thanks for all the help everyone. How rare is this bike and what quality is it?
    The quality is high. People are reluctant to give a price because not enough of these come up to give a good/accurate estimate. It's definitely worth more than you paid - maybe it's a $1,000 bike, maybe $1,500, maybe more. The bike is likely not the most valuable bike ever (there's less demand for One Off than some other brands), but it is relatively rare and desirable.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  36. #236
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    that's awesome

    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    A bit of friendly advice..

    If you don't stop making shit up while attempting to sound like you know what you're talking about, you're going to cement your reputation as resident fcukwit, and nobody will take anything you have to say seriously
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  37. #237
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    I talked to Mike on the phone and sent him pictures. He said it is definitely a frame he made and that he only made about 40 mountain bike frames after he left Merlin.

  38. #238
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    Ditto laffeaux. The best way to test the market would be to clean it up and take nice pics and let it ride on eBay--I wouldn't be surprised if it cracked $2k. That said, if it fits you, keep it and enjoy it. It's a unique and innovative ti bike that would be a complement to any collection. Three cheers for Goodwill.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    Ditto laffeaux. The best way to test the market would be to clean it up and take nice pics and let it ride on eBay--I wouldn't be surprised if it cracked $2k. That said, if it fits you, keep it and enjoy it. It's a unique and innovative ti bike that would be a complement to any collection. Three cheers for Goodwill.
    ^This^, and yes, Laffeaux is spot on too....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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    Wow- big differences in opinions here. I say it's worth $600 and someone else says it's worth a grand. Since I'm not one of the crew, my opinion doesn't count for sh*t but the other guys' does.
    My guess is things that are desirable to some folks around here get "marked up" and things that aren't get "marked down". I've heard more than one esteemed member say a similar remark and had another verify it.
    I say if you want to know the real value of something like a possible rare bicycle, then you should call Christies or Lloyds and not ask a bunch of guys on the internet who have no real factual prices.
    You can always post it up on the bay and let the bidders determine it's value.
    Anyways, it's a nice bike. GLWS.
    FWIW, how much did you pay for it at Goodwill?

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    Wow- big differences in opinions here. I say it's worth $600 and someone else says it's worth a grand. Since I'm not one of the crew, my opinion doesn't count for sh*t but the other guys' does.
    It's called decades of being a mountain bike nut, decades of being into nice bikes, and 15+ yrs of collecting/buying/selling. Having that experience makes it pretty easy to see you're clueless and just guessing using really bad info and logic. Sorry to be blunt.

  42. #242
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    Yep, that Sam Maloof rocking chair is worth close to the one your mama bought at JC Penny's 30 years ago since, hey, they are both rocking chairs, and made of wood and sh*t, right?

    Don't bother researching Sam Maloof, you just know these things cause they look kinda the same....

    Man people with closed minds bug the ever living crap out of me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)-xdsc_0499.jpg  

    Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)-rocking_chair.jpg  

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by cortolillo87 View Post
    I talked to Mike on the phone and sent him pictures. He said it is definitely a frame he made and that he only made about 40 mountain bike frames after he left Merlin.
    40 mountain frames is not a lot. Thanks for posting the info that you found out.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    things that are desirable to some folks around here get "marked up" and things that aren't get "marked down".
    Isn't that like the first rule of ecconomics? It stands to reason that a bike made by a company called "One-Off" is not going to fall within the normal value range.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Yep, that Sam Maloof rocking chair is worth close to the one your mama bought at JC Penny's 30 years ago.
    How do you know about Sam Maloof? Are you a woodworker? I work for a newspaper and photographed him shortly before he died. Needless to say I was surprised to see one of his chairs pop up on this forum.

    Steven

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Yep, that Sam Maloof rocking chair is worth close to the one your mama bought at JC Penny's 30 years ago since, hey, they are both rocking chairs, and made of wood and sh*t, right?

    Don't bother researching Sam Maloof, you just know these things cause they look kinda the same....

    Man people with closed minds bug the ever living crap out of me.
    haha

    '86 Pontiac Fiero = '86 Lamborghini because both are red, small and sporty. Plus I've seen lots of Fieros on CL for $1200. Plus the economy is bad so these should have the same demand. Impeccable logic right there.

  47. #247
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    Thanks again for everyones help with this bike. I never would have been able to figure out what it was without this forum. Its always nice dealing with people who are actually interested in this. Here it is all cleaned up.
    Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)-img_1469.jpgOfficial What is it Worth thread (WIW)-img_1478.jpgOfficial What is it Worth thread (WIW)-img_1480.jpg

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    40 mountain frames is not a lot. Thanks for posting the info that you found out.
    <s>I've never seen one quite that ordinary either.</s> I take it back now that I've seen the track ends.

    A friend has one and it's a freakshow that befits the One-Off name: 23 inch toptube (or so) with a 13 inch seat tube and Leni Fried anodized monkeys all over it.

    It cost a fortune new. Cunningham money.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by cortolillo87 View Post
    Thanks again for everyones help with this bike. I never would have been able to figure out what it was without this forum. Its always nice dealing with people who are actually interested in this. Here it is all cleaned up.
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    Cool bike. Totally unqualified opinion here as I don't collect vintage bikes (yet?), but if I came across a frame that was 1 of 40 and didn't suck, it wouldn't be for sale?
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  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewisfoto View Post
    How do you know about Sam Maloof? Are you a woodworker? I work for a newspaper and photographed him shortly before he died. Needless to say I was surprised to see one of his chairs pop up on this forum.

    Steven
    Hack woodworker here, my Dad is really good though. I did a bunch of inspired stuff in high school, with all the tools, and a teacher to push me, at my disposal, but I've done nothing in years beyond carpentry.

    That said, I live not too far from Wendell Castle's "shop" and just bought a piece of his off my local CL for an honestly good price (so stoked).

    A Maloof chair would be the sort of thing I'd love to find "undiscovered" at a Goodwill though, fer shur.
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  51. #251
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    I love it how people compare apples to oranges around here.
    Cunningham money- that's a good one. Overpriced birds of a feather....
    Nice bike- you've been busy if the picture you posted last week was the before and these are the after.
    I like the rocking chair too.

  52. #252
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    I'm with Zygote. Cunninghams are all overpriced. I demand that someone sell me one for what I am willing to pay for it. Look deep into your heart and know that I am right.

    When I snap my fingers all you Ham owners will wake up and immediately PM me for my shipping address.
    Don't call it a gooseneck.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    Nice bike- you've been busy if the picture you posted last week was the before and these are the after.
    I like the rocking chair too.
    I said "cool bike" and I meant it. As far as design is concerned, anyone can PM me if they want to know the relevance of an Eames chair to Web architecture.
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  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jak0zilla View Post
    I'm with Zygote. Cunninghams are all overpriced. I demand that someone sell me one for what I am willing to pay for it. Look deep into your heart and know that I am right.

    When I snap my fingers all you Ham owners will wake up and immediately PM me for my shipping address.
    Freakin' hilarious!
    Denver Broncos: 101-3 since 1975 when scoring 30+ at home.

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    Honestly it only took me an hour to clean it up. I didn't have to take anything apart, all of the bearings still run buttery smooth. It was just covered in dust.
    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    I love it how people compare apples to oranges around here.
    Cunningham money- that's a good one. Overpriced birds of a feather....
    Nice bike- you've been busy if the picture you posted last week was the before and these are the after.
    I like the rocking chair too.

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    Cunningham money- that's a good one.
    Oh son, I know you're not starting up with me...

    I have long time friends who bought both of the bikes I referred to new and had interactions with the respective builders that we minutely dissected over beers. Price-wise, though a few years apart, they were almost identical. You make of that what you will. I wish I'd had the foresight they had to make the sacrifice because I'd be riding a legend.

  57. #257
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    It's like letting the local Fred the rent-a-cop from the local mall be a guest appraiser on Antiques Roadshow, dealing with early American folk art.

    Fred'll get it all spot on, not like those over puffed, bow tied guys that spent their whole lives in their chosen field know any more than Fred does, right????????



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    I have been on paternity for a month hanging with the baby and building a Jeep with virtually no internet time, all I can say is boy I have missed this place....... 😉

  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by datmony View Post
    I have been on paternity for a month hanging with the baby and building a Jeep with virtually no internet time, all I can say is boy I have missed this place....... 😉
    Is it a ordinary jeep or a special one?

  60. #260
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    Paternity leave? Lucky man. Congratulations on the new one.
    Quote Originally Posted by datmony View Post
    I have been on paternity for a month hanging with the baby and building a Jeep with virtually no internet time, all I can say is boy I have missed this place....... 😉
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

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  61. #261
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    Congrats on the newborn. Be mindful to give the child the attention it deserves, otherwise it might end up on forums looking for attention.
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  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefmiguel View Post
    Congrats on the newborn. Be mindful to give the child the attention it deserves, otherwise it might end up on forums looking for attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Smedley View Post
    Is it a ordinary jeep or a special one?
    Quote Originally Posted by datmony View Post
    I have been on paternity for a month hanging with the baby and building a Jeep with virtually no internet time, all I can say is boy I have missed this place....... 😉
    Haha, guys. Congrats, datmony!

    and

    Geeez. Please stop guessing. Just step away from the keyboard when you're searching for whatever random number to throw out there.

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    Thanks for the kind words everyone.

    Hoping it is somewhat special once finally done, building it with a custom firewall to accommodate full disc brakes including Wilwood brakes and a Tilton brake pedal assembly. 86 CJ7, stroked 4.6L, 3/4-1 ton drivetrain, new frame, custom springs, etc. Meant to be a very street worthy build (only 33" tires) but still very off road capable from air lockers and what not.

    Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)-wp_20131115_002.jpg

    Here is my garage helper Hailey in her bouncer. Mom did her maternity first so she is 5 months. Meant I got spoiled on mine because she is old enough now to smile, laugh, play kissy face........ Was an amazing month. We played with bubbles and sang in between our wrench sessions.......... so much fun......

    Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)-wp_20131112_009.jpg

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by datmony View Post
    Here is my garage helper Hailey in her bouncer. Mom did her maternity first so she is 5 months. Meant I got spoiled on mine because she is old enough now to smile, laugh, play kissy face........ Was an amazing month. We played with bubbles and sang in between our wrench sessions.......... so much fun......
    Stop it! You're making my puppy seem lame.
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    they are nice bikes, but I think they are overpriced.
    It's funny how people round here think that mountain bikes in general are collectible, but as I see it, mountain bikes are too new for serious bicycle collectors to start collecting and having conventions/shows/etc over. I know there's a mountain biking hall of fame and I'm sure people are already starting on a serious mtb collection site/price guide and I'm reasonably sure that some of you are working on it, but until it's written down it's still anyone's best guess as to any assigned value. I guess the "anyone" is whoever is particularly relevant to the that bike at that time which supposedly makes their judgment the "law".
    I think this particular crowd is a micro-bubble in the collectors world and is not to be used as a standard.
    I heard it said best on another forum- this is what happens when you have a forum that is open to the public. It lets all the vermin in with their rampant opinions about everything. I guess if I'm one of the rats it's good to know that I have plenty of company.
    Saw some nice stuff here today- cool Ti bike, nice rocking chair, and a great jeep build up.
    See you all out on the trails....

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by datmony View Post
    Here is my garage helper Hailey in her bouncer. Mom did her maternity first so she is 5 months. Meant I got spoiled on mine because she is old enough now to smile, laugh, play kissy face........ Was an amazing month. We played with bubbles and sang in between our wrench sessions.......... so much fun......

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Good lookin' kiddo there!

    Don't forget to let her drive that thing once she's old enough.....


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  67. #267
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    Beautiful girl. She has such a sweet smile. beautiful garage. A full sized fridge. You keep your wine in your garage? :P

    zygote, you're the only one with the "rampant opinion." Everybody else is in agreement that the one off is rare and not just a russian/chinese-made ti bike. I'm not a fan of one offs but that doesn't mean it's not worth as much.

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by datmony View Post
    Thanks for the kind words everyone.
    Nice looking jeep, dog and kid! (not in ant particular order)
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    they are nice bikes, but I think they are overpriced.
    Just because you think they are over priced, doesn't mean that other people aren't willing to pay it. Which is what really makes up the value, not just some out of your a$$ guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    It's funny how people round here think that mountain bikes in general are collectible, but as I see it, mountain bikes are too new for serious bicycle collectors to start collecting and having conventions/shows/etc over.
    Anything is collectible as long as there are people collecting it. Yes, mountain bike collecting is fairly new and there is a relatively small number of us doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    I know there's a mountain biking hall of fame and I'm sure people are already starting on a serious mtb collection site/price guide and I'm reasonably sure that some of you are working on it, but until it's written down it's still anyone's best guess as to any assigned value. I guess the "anyone" is whoever is particularly relevant to the that bike at that time which supposedly makes their judgment the "law".
    I'm not aware of anyone working on a "Price Guide". I've also not seen any real price guide for vintage BMX or vintage road bikes, and they take their collecting alot more seriously than most mountain bike collectors. Peoples opinions on value come from their knowledge of the market and knowing what they are putting a value on. If you'll notice, you were the only one that really put a value on the One Off, when you didn't have any idea what you were looking at. There's probably a reason no one else really wanted to guess at the value. These rarely come up for sale. That said, Laffeaux's estimate is probably a lot more realistic if this were to hit to open market.
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  70. #270
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    So the question is, now that you know there were maybe 40 made, how does that affect your pricing opinion if at all?
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

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  71. #271
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    I see where value vs. production can be confusing...

    20 Control Tech Team Issue bikes made are worth less than the 40 One-Off bikes made or the 200(ish?) Cunninghams made. A whole lot of factors to consider, regardless if you agree/accept what those elements are.
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    Thanks everyone!!! Ya, she is cute enough that I think we will keep her.

    GOB, one of the lucky things about the NW, garage is always 50-60ish. If we were still in Reno it would be boiled and froze. Stays heated in the winter for the cats and dog so right around that same temp too. Not a cellar by any stretch but a semi tolerable range temp wise.

  73. #273
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    "Your bike might be worth $400-$600 Of course this price is based upon the average Ti bike that is sold on Criagslist but there may be a One-off collector out there who will give you more."

    Laffeaux only said $1k-$1500.

    You guys love to make molehills into mountains.
    Obviously I priced it low, someone else priced it high. You guys are blowing this way out of proportion. Clearly there's no price guide and it's only my opinion vs yours. I made a true statement and Laffeaux proved to be the collector who would give you more. MuddBuddy verified that Laffeaux's statement is fair.

    GOB- I only said it looked like a Russian bike. I did post the link for One-off.

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  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy View Post
    I see where value vs. production can be confusing...

    200 Cunningham bikes made are worth less than the 20 Control Tech bikes made or the 40(ish?) One-off made. A whole lot of factors to consider, regardless if you agree/accept what those elements are.
    I could see how the average person could get confused if you switched the names around, so let me add my opinion and offer a different price.....

    Sorry man, I'm just not going to fall for it. I can honestly say that I believe a Cunningham bike is worth more than the Control Tech bikes but to say that the One-offs are worth more would be a stretch. And based upon all those sales figures of CT or O-O's in the last 15 years is anyone's best guess/opinion.

  75. #275
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    You're bicyclebluebook.com, right?


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  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    So the question is, now that you know there were maybe 40 made, how does that affect your pricing opinion if at all?
    Well Jeff, that could certainly be everything or nothing. If you look at ControlTech bikes of which there are considerably less than 40 in existence but way low on the regional popularity list, it means they are shit.
    But if we're looking at an ex-Frame builder who ventured out on his own and made Ti bikes and higher on the popularity list, then it could possibly be worth a fortune.

    As I made mention in the post above to Rumfpy that it's anyone's guess or opinion as to what ANY low production bike is worth at any given time. And those who claim "decades of experience" as a pre-requisite only need to back it up with at least 1 actual sales record of how much these bikes sold for.
    Just one and Bikepedia doesn't count.
    I can say that the last known sale of one of these bikes was the amount it sold for at the goodwill. I'm guessing it was less than what I said it was worth...
    I'm willing to stick my neck out and venture forth with opinions that clearly rile the sheep.

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    Well Jeff, that could certainly be everything or nothing. If you look at ControlTech bikes of which there are considerably less than 40 in existence but way low on the regional popularity list, it means they are shit.
    But if we're looking at an ex-Frame builder who ventured out on his own and made Ti bikes and higher on the popularity list, then it could possibly be worth a fortune.

    As I made mention in the post above to Rumfpy that it's anyone's guess or opinion as to what ANY low production bike is worth at any given time. And those who claim "decades of experience" as a pre-requisite only need to back it up with at least 1 actual sales record of how much these bikes sold for.
    Just one and Bikepedia doesn't count.
    I can say that the last known sale of one of these bikes was the amount it sold for at the goodwill. I'm guessing it was less than what I said it was worth...
    I'm willing to stick my neck out and venture forth with opinions that clearly rile the sheep.
    You still talking? , wife leave you or something?

  78. #278
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    And Moron isn't just on Ibis bikes
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  79. #279
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    Zing!
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
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  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    Laffeaux only said $1k-$1500.
    Technically I said, "maybe it's a $1,000 bike, maybe $1,500, maybe more." Meaning that in the open market it's likely to sell somewhere in excess of $1,000 and potentially a lot more than that.

    But it really does not matter.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  81. #281
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  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    But if we're looking at an ex-Frame builder who ventured out on his own and made Ti bikes and higher on the popularity list, then it could possibly be worth a fortune.
    The ex-frame builder giving a talk at the Smithsonian, because - you know - that's the kind of thing most ex-frame builders do...

    Lemelson Center Invention Features: Mike Augspurger

    You put the right two people in a room together and that bike could be worth thousands. AFAIK (and I know a fair bit about Fats) it's by far the hardest to find of the Fat Chance off-shoots. For a completist working on the complete family tree it could be a grail bike worth whatever it cost. A bike like this will never be subject to traditional market forces - it will never have the stats to objectively support a bluebook-type entry - so it's useless to decry the lack of one.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Smedley View Post
    You still talking? , wife leave you or something?
    you still listening? stalker or nutcase?

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats View Post
    The ex-frame builder giving a talk at the Smithsonian, because - you know - that's the kind of thing most ex-frame builders do...

    Lemelson Center Invention Features: Mike Augspurger

    You put the right two people in a room together and that bike could be worth thousands. AFAIK (and I know a fair bit about Fats) it's by far the hardest to find of the Fat Chance off-shoots. For a completist working on the complete family tree it could be a grail bike worth whatever it cost. A bike like this will never be subject to traditional market forces - it will never have the stats to objectively support a bluebook-type entry - so it's useless to decry the lack of one.
    All of this just adds some backstory to creating value, but to be honest, this article is referring to his handbikes and this is what got him a talk at the Smithsonian. Handicapped wheelchair racers draw lots of attention and since he got on this path, it probably got him recognized more so than did his mountain bikes. It sounds like a collaborative effort with a fair amount of players and it worked out nicely for him.
    It still doesn't make for a fair market value on a what's it worth forum.
    If this bike is as rare and such a holy grail, then certainly one of the big auction houses might be an avenue to pursue for true value.

    Nice selfie, DFA.

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    ...it probably got him recognized more so than did his mountain bikes.
    Sorry you don't get the history/economics of what I posted. He pioneered quality production titanium mountain bikes at Fat Chance, co-founded Merlin and then moved on - as innovators do - to produce the highest quality off-road handcycles.

    No bike sales = no bike values. This isn't a question of supply and demand.

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats View Post
    Sorry you don't get the history/economics of what I posted. He pioneered quality production titanium mountain bikes at Fat Chance, co-founded Merlin and then moved on - as innovators do - to produce the highest quality off-road handcycles.

    No bike sales = no bike values. This isn't a question of supply and demand.
    Oh I get it alright.
    It means others who had values were just as wrong as mine based on your logic, which by the way is the best I've heard from anyone here and makes the most sense.
    As far as "pioneering" titanium bikes, that's pushing it but I'll give him credit since he was part Merlin and Chance.

  87. #287
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    "Yeah, I'm huge."

    Quote Originally Posted by DFA View Post

  88. #288
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    So Stan leaves and then we get Zygote...

    Can you really not see how you were so far off on the info you provided? Or are you just too stubborn to admit it?? Silly.

    I would heed Hollister's earlier advice.

    And yes, he did pioneer titanium mountain bikes.

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    Nice selfie, DFA.
    No surprise you didn't get the context. Please continue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by chefmiguel View Post
    Lots of cool stuff on there, fork looks to be a Litespeed. Not sure on the frame, nice pickup.
    Forks match frame with same stepped tubing detail. Very cool detail.

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    So Stan leaves and then we get Zygote...

    Can you really not see how you were so far off on the info you provided? Or are you just too stubborn to admit it?? Silly.

    I would heed Hollister's earlier advice.

    And yes, he did pioneer titanium mountain bikes.

    My info on value was as good as anyone else who ventured forth an opinion. It's not as if there were lots of values posted- just 2. Are you just too stubborn to admit that I'm as right (or wrong) as the other one? Silly.
    It's amazing how few of you actually have some fact based opinions and even more amazing that some of them seem to have come out of thin air (or an ass) but more surprising that they are treated as gospel.

  92. #292
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    This was written pretty well by someones here on VRC a while back. Seems good:


    Vintage, Retro, Classic. What is it?
    One of the two most commonly asked questions. How to determine the difference (or even identify) a vintage, retro, or classic bike. Other VRC'ers have defined it far more eloquently than I ever could. Here are some links discussing the subject. They include some great definitions of VRC. Keep in mind that the definition of vintage retro classic is, at the end of the day, in they eyes of the beholder.

    VRC Definition threads:
    General VRC Definition Discussion
    General VRC Definition Discussion II
    General VRC Definition Discussion III
    General VRC Definition Discussion IV
    General VRC Definition Discussion V
    Which of todays bikes are tomorrow's classics


    What's It Worth (WIW)
    The other most commonly asked question. What's it worth?
    This is about as difficult to define as the definition of 'vintage retro classic'. There is no clear answer. And though this question is asked often, its almost always asked of a different part or bike...making links to helpful threads difficult.

    Here's one of the better discussions of the topic:
    Vintage Value
    Lighthearted, but less than helpful 'whats it worth' discussion.

    I'll make an attempt at providing guidance to 'what's it worth', it is just my personal opinion on the subject.

    What's it worth? What is your bike worth? Are you sitting on a gold mine? Maybe, maybe not. The best way to determine the value of your bike. Put it on eBay for $.99 and let it ride. This probably the most best way to figure the value. Of course, how well your auction description is and how clean and nicely you take pictures of your bike will also affect its value. MTBR.com has a 'Vintage' section in the classifieds. It hits your target audience perfectly.
    If you don't want to sell your bike, but just want to know if it has value...take these things into account:
    Age of the bike.
    Originality of the bike (paint, parts)
    Condition of the bike (paint, parts)
    Is it a low production run bike? Custom/Hand made by a reputable craftsmen?
    Component list? Are the parts 'top or the line' or quality aftermarket upgrades?

    Worth....or value, will always be a gray area. What may be worth a lot to you, may be worth very little to someone else. Even something such as sentimental worth can sometimes affect market value. Do your research. Watch local Craigslist and eBay for like items to gauge the worth (value) of what you have.
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  93. #293
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    It's like Stan and Kyle, all rolled into one.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  94. #294
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by tductape View Post
    This was written pretty well by someones here on VRC a while back. Seems good:
    Yes, but since he didn't write it, someone from here did, it has no merit, and is therefore, not good???
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  95. #295
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    It's like Stan and Kyle, all rolled into one.
    Kyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyle
    Oh the memories
    *** --- *** --- ***

  96. #296
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    Reputation: ameybrook's Avatar
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    Another Ausberger bike I'd like to own

    <a href="http://s77.photobucket.com/user/ameybrook/media/292TiSlingshot_zpsbfac95a2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j52/ameybrook/292TiSlingshot_zpsbfac95a2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 292TiSlingshot_zpsbfac95a2.jpg"/></a>


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  97. #297
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    One that I'd like... One of One. WIW?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)-191_moulton-titan_1211b.jpg  


  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats View Post
    WIW?
    Folding 20"ers in my neighborhood routinely get like $75 to $150, in fact, here's one from my local CL.

    Vintage,1970 Raleigh TWENTY Folding/Splitter bike 3 spd bicycle,Nice!

    Of course, it's been up for weeks at that price, so it can't be worth more than my stated quote.

    They look the same, er•go, valuations are equal.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official What is it Worth thread (WIW)-00w0w_f1h6yylxtv0_600x450.jpg  

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    My info on value was as good as anyone else who ventured forth an opinion.
    What did Hollister say you would become??

    Quote Originally Posted by zygote2k View Post
    It's not as if there were lots of values posted- just 2.
    Because it's tough to guess, but anyone that knows bikes knows it's not worth $4-600.

  100. #300
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    Ha! Rest in peace Sheldon!

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