Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 41011121314
Results 1,301 to 1,359 of 1359
  1. #1301
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    290
    G1, thanks for the tip, I'll do just that.

    Colker, yeah he's still pretty lively and his wife is helping in the shop, he has some trouble speaking, but if you listen carefully he still has some great stories and still has a great passion for frame building and repairs. He was working on repairing a beautiful early to mid 80's Colnago....cheers

  2. #1302
    Dual Squishy...
    Reputation: Jeepnut22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    659
    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Yeah, the serial number mean nothing. A large batch of dropouts were made, stamped with numbers, and then the dropouts were thrown into a box. Builders reached into the box and grabbed dropouts randomly.

    The exception to that is bikes in the really early '90s. The tend to have serial numbers on the BBs which includes the year of manufacture. The Race and Race Lite from however do not (see above).

    '94(ish) is a good guess. There aren't model years. Things changed as needed, and the changes were pretty minimal" drop out shape, FD roller, FD cable stop location, decals, seat stays,... maybe that's it. Post pics and maybe there will be something to narrow it down, but '94 +/- a year is pretty good.
    Here is the thread where I rebuilt it into a single speed. A resto-mod so to speak. Changed the bars and turned it into a 1x10 since I did the built up here:
    My '92 OR Race Lite buildup...

    I thought it was a '92, but was corrected way back. Also, one other thing. The 0231 serial number was on the official Bontrager owner's manual/paperwork I got with the frame. I should take a picture of that at some point...
    ___________________________________________
    1994 Bontrager OR Lite
    2014 FatBoy Pro
    2015 Mach 6c
    2015 Following
    2016 SB6c

  3. #1303
    velocipede technician
    Reputation: hollister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,853
    >takes victory lap<
    looking for 20-21" P team

  4. #1304
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    >takes victory lap<
    Nice side-by-side pic, that's great for comparison.

    Is that a threadless steerer on the taller fork? It looks like the crown is the same as the Bontrager crowns for the RS Mag 10/20/21. Does anyone know the diameter of the steer tube at the crown pinch bolts for the rigid forks?

    I have a '92 Race rigid fork just like the one on the right (395mm), and I'm thinking of swapping out the crown for one I have from a Mag to get a little extra height (to better fit a suspension-corrected '95 frame). I was thinking of also installing either a threadless steel steerer or a titanium threaded steerer from an old Marzocchi fork crown if it's the same diameter (that steer tube needs a shim to fit in Marzocchi crowns, but it might fit without the shim).

  5. #1305
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    39
    I think a little research has answered most of my questions.

    Hollister's beautiful tall fork is a 29" model, with a threadless steerer installed (I think that's right). That model had the arched brace, which adds a little room for tire clearance and raises the axle-to-crown slightly.

    I pulled out my RockShox Mag, and the crown brace is quite different, it has the pinch bolts on the outside, not between the stanchions and the steertube. It's black, but has smooth rounded edges and no logo/markings.

    I also pulled out my Bontrager rigid fork, and realized I could put a caliper on the underside of the brace to measure the steer tube diameter. It appears to be 27.2mm, which would be great, because that is the exact size of Marzocchi steerer without a shim, as well as RST threaded/threadless steerers that are available online new for $20 each.

    I can see that the original steerer has a retaining ring which sits in a groove at the bottom of the steerer tube. I could cut a similar groove, and/or remove some material from the bottom of the steerer tube if necessary. It appears the crown race seat is long enough to peek above the collar. Has anyone attempted such a conversion with the RST steerers?

    With the earlier discussion about custom built replacement steerer tubes for these forks, I have to ask, is there anything unusual about the shape of the steer tube? I can't seem to tell without prying the current steerer out, which I will do next.


  6. #1306
    mtbr member
    Reputation: iamkeith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    776
    Someone else needs to answer questions regarding Hollister's crown, but I thought I should mention something quickly in the meantime, before you make a mistake:

    You don't need to "pry" the steerer out of your fork! Prying the crown open could damage it. Just loosen the clamp bolts at the crown, and tap the steerer down from the top. Protect the threads, obviously. The crown race and the shim that it is seated on will come loose as the steerer tube drops, and slide off the top. (if they are even that tight to begin with) SAVE THE SHIM! There is nothing special about the steerer tube itself - it's just straight 1" steerer the entire length. Unlike many forks, the crown race seat is not created by a bulge in the tube - it is created by the above mentioned and difficult-to-find shim.
    We still hang bike thieves in Wyoming [Pedal House]

  7. #1307
    velocipede technician
    Reputation: hollister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,853
    It's a bontrager suspension crown(mag 20 I believe)

    When I bought it it had a different crown with the same dimensions, that I swapped for the one above

    Yes, that's a thread less steer in the first pic


    AC 418 without a CRA
    looking for 20-21" P team

  8. #1308
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    290
    OT, but that's a nice little stash of odds and ends, bits of marinovative brakes and is that a RM-2? If so, does it have a home?

  9. #1309
    artistic...
    Reputation: colker1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,113
    Quote Originally Posted by banjor View Post
    Nice side-by-side pic, that's great for comparison.

    Is that a threadless steerer on the taller fork? It looks like the crown is the same as the Bontrager crowns for the RS Mag 10/20/21. Does anyone know the diameter of the steer tube at the crown pinch bolts for the rigid forks?

    I have a '92 Race rigid fork just like the one on the right (395mm), and I'm thinking of swapping out the crown for one I have from a Mag to get a little extra height (to better fit a suspension-corrected '95 frame). I was thinking of also installing either a threadless steel steerer or a titanium threaded steerer from an old Marzocchi fork crown if it's the same diameter (that steer tube needs a shim to fit in Marzocchi crowns, but it might fit without the shim).
    why would you want to butcher that Bontrager fork? If you must use it on your build and need to acomodate a different axle to crown height, keep the crown and get some new legs. What´s the point in getting rid of the cool bonty crown and swapping for a mass produced RS? Why swap the steerer for an RST or titanium? Weight savings? You will race xc on that bike?
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  10. #1310
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    why would you want to butcher that Bontrager fork? If you must use it on your build and need to acomodate a different axle to crown height, keep the crown and get some new legs. What´s the point in getting rid of the cool bonty crown and swapping for a mass produced RS? Why swap the steerer for an RST or titanium? Weight savings? You will race xc on that bike?
    Great question. The reason for considering a threadless steerer was to make it easy to swap between 2 vintage steel rigid, 2 modern carbon rigid, and 5 suspension forks on my 4 Bontrager frames. I don't tend to do trail riding in the winter months, so I'd like to switch to rigid for road training. I'm building up one frame as a 27.5, but I'll use an Exotic carbon fork with the 425 AC for that, rather that trying to stuff it into the Bontrager fork with the ugly Mag crown. I'd be better off installing the titanium steerer to save weight off of a suspension fork. I'm just going to install the Bontrager fork and enjoy it.

    I think I'm probably not going to swap all that often, so if I install either Cane Creek or Chris King headsets all around I can swap the top nut between threaded and threadless without touching the cups. One frame is a 1 1/8 inch Privateer, but I ordered some headtube reducers to let me replace the headset with a 1" for ease of sharing forks. Any opinions on that before I install them? If it's a bad idea I'll find another solution, like assigning one rigid and one suspension fork to each frame, with the appropriate steerer for the headset.

    Oh, and if you are wondering why I want to ride 4 different Bontragers? Its because I don't have a fifth yet. ;-) Also, I have a lot of back problems, and find that changing between bikes with different positions (between wide, flat w/bar-end, and drop bars) helps strengthen additional back muscles and reduces my pain.

  11. #1311
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    11

    My Bontrager OR project bike!

    Thought I had better start posting pics of my latest find before I really start messing around! Been wanting an original non-suspended Bonty since forever, and nearly got one back in the early 90's but ordered a Yeti FRO instead. This is going to be a "patina" restore: not going for a full repaint and am using mostly period-correct parts for the build. The brakes are NOT tho, because I don't have anything else laying around I like better than these old-style newer cantilevers. I am thinking that this frame is from 1990-92? The residue from the old straight edged stickers is still visible, and I am removing the incorrect angled ones. It came with the fork, and I am super-stoked about that! I really need those proper decals, tho... Not sure about wheels yet. I have an old Nuke laying around for the front, and might be able to salvage an old American Classic rear. Have a newer Syncros seatpost and old Tioga T-Bone stem to use, XT older crank and thumbies ('natch!) Might even run toe clips with my XC pro pedals!

    First order of business is to get the frame cleaned of rust and proctected. I think that chainsuck gouge is OK. I could use the chainsuck plates too.. they are missing! Thanks for reading about my project and wish me luck!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official Bontrager Thread-bonty_full.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-cableguide_cleanup.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-cableguide1.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-drivedropout2.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-driveside_cleanup.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-fork_dropouts.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-fork_front.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-seatcluster1.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-front_pulley.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-seatstay_rear.jpg  


  12. #1312
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    290
    That's a nice find, double bonus for the original fork! I have a couple Bonty's and from what I've seen and learned here I would say closer to 1990 (semi-horizontal drop outs and riveted cable stops), but I'll defer to more smarty people than me. Is that what Bontrager would have called a large? As you probably know retrodecal makes pretty good replacement straight edged decals I have them on a 1992 (https://www.facebook.com/retrodecals/) Enjoy and keep us updated.

  13. #1313
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    23
    I think it's 1993 or earlier. Check out my 1994 Race restoration, let me know if you have any other questions.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/members/yardl...e-restoration/
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official Bontrager Thread-3-img_6089.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-1994-bontrager-rigid-fork.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-1994-race.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-9-img_6085.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-8-img_6141.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-6-img_6096.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-5-img_6093.jpg  


  14. #1314
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    2
    That's a beauty! Very classy vintage look.

    I have the same frame (medium) in British racing green. Recently fixed it up will post pics soon.

    Where did you get the Trager decal for your stem?

  15. #1315
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Williwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,005
    I would also love to get some of those stem stickers as well.

  16. #1316
    Relax. I'm a pro.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,455
    What a beauty. What's the RAL number for that green powdercoat?
    Instagram: @antoine1000
    http://tfwo.tumblr.com

  17. #1317
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    I'm not able to view anything on the resto link. Can you tell us more about that fork? Cheers, beautiful bike.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  18. #1318
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    2
    I am the orignal owner of this 1994 Race I bought for single track. As I now live in the concrete jungle I have converted it to an "Urban Adventure Bike" and am loving it. Paint is original British Racing Green and needs a little touch up.

    Some key components are 27 speed Gripshift with XT Rear, WTB cantilever brakes with curved Kool Stop dual compound pads, Brooks Swift Titanium saddle, TiGR mini lock, Moots Ti TailGater bag, Manitou 4 with new elastomers, Lumos helmet with turn signal and accelerometer activated brake light. Swept back post so I can tuck into wind more and stretch out.

    Official Bontrager Thread-20170403_191712.jpgOfficial Bontrager Thread-20170328_173051.jpgOfficial Bontrager Thread-20170328_170203.jpg


    Official Bontrager Thread-20170328_164112.jpg

  19. #1319
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    2
    I'm trying to ID this and determine whether this is a pre or post-Trek Bontrager:









    Thoughts?

  20. #1320
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron47pb View Post
    I'm trying to ID this and determine whether this is a pre or post-Trek Bontrager:









    Thoughts?
    It is definitely a Santa Cruz bike. You can tell by the head tube and the shape of the drop outs. There will also be butterfly gussets at the bottom bracket junction with the chainstays and seat tube. These details are only found on Santa Cruz made Bontragers.

  21. #1321
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    146
    Pics aren't showing for me, but I could tell if I saw it (worked at Trek at that time).
    Keep in mind that if it has a one inch headtube, it was made in Santa Cruz. Only the 'Privateer' model had a 1.125" headset and was welded in Waterloo, WI at the Trek factory.
    As far as I know, there were no new Race and Racelite frames produced after the merger. And none were made by Trek so I always think it's funny when people refer to pre- or post- Trek Bontragers. However Trek took a couple years to sell through the Bontrager frame inventory after the merger.

  22. #1322
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    Quote Originally Posted by restlessrider View Post
    Pics aren't showing for me, but I could tell if I saw it (worked at Trek at that time).
    Keep in mind that if it has a one inch headtube, it was made in Santa Cruz. Only the 'Privateer' model had a 1.125" headset and was welded in Waterloo, WI at the Trek factory.
    As far as I know, there were no new Race and Racelite frames produced after the merger. And none were made by Trek so I always think it's funny when people refer to pre- or post- Trek Bontragers. However Trek took a couple years to sell through the Bontrager frame inventory after the merger.
    At least the first two years of production Bontrager Privateers had 1" headtubes. I own several from 1997 and two from 1996 and they all have 1" headtubes. I only have two Bontragers with 1 1/8" headtubes, one a Privateer Comp from probably the last year they were made and another from the year before (98?) which I stripped down to a naked frame but never got around to having powdercoated. It's hanging in the shed.

    Both of my Racelites are relatively late model. One has two part seatstays and one had one piece seatstays. The Racelite (probably) we're talking about seemed to have one piece rather than two piece seatstays so it would have been relatively late production, but was still not a Wisconsin made bike.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  23. #1323
    the new Gilbert Grape
    Reputation: laffeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,839
    I can't see the pices either.

    All Race and Race Lite frames were made in Santa Cruz. No Privateers were made in Santa Cruz.

    Trek bought Bontrager in ~1995, which roughly corresponds to when the stays went from segmented to tappered. You can consider tappered frames as being post-Trek Santa Cruz frames, and those with segmented stays as pre-Trek Santa Cruz frames.

    Privateers were built by Trek in WI.

  24. #1324
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    2
    How about these?

    Official Bontrager Thread-mrpopqp.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-ocwsdnj.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-2vwj9pf.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-kg797iw.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-s8gldmy.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-ty1mw3j.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-3jrelpq.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-81qcoae.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-vpljs49.jpg

  25. #1325
    the new Gilbert Grape
    Reputation: laffeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,839
    That's a Race Lite made by Bontrager Cycles in Santa Cruz after Trek purchased the company.

  26. #1326
    Hardtail Steel Forever
    Reputation: jestep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by kenjihara View Post
    At least the first two years of production Bontrager Privateers had 1" headtubes. I own several from 1997 and two from 1996 and they all have 1" headtubes. I only have two Bontragers with 1 1/8" headtubes, one a Privateer Comp from probably the last year they were made and another from the year before (98?) which I stripped down to a naked frame but never got around to having powdercoated. It's hanging in the shed.
    I've seen 1 1/8" privateers from 98 and 99, but they were being produced at the same time as identical 1" versions. I know this because I have had 2 pairs of matching privateers with different head tube sizes. The Rasta Green/Red/Yellow and the Blue/Cream/Orange are the only 2 I've ever seen with 1 1/8" headtubes, but I've had identical 1" versions of each bike. I've never seen a 1 1/8" in any color but these. Was yours a different color than these?
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  27. #1327
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    I've seen 1 1/8" privateers from 98 and 99, but they were being produced at the same time as identical 1" versions. I know this because I have had 2 pairs of matching privateers with different head tube sizes. The Rasta Green/Red/Yellow and the Blue/Cream/Orange are the only 2 I've ever seen with 1 1/8" headtubes, but I've had identical 1" versions of each bike. I've never seen a 1 1/8" in any color but these. Was yours a different color than these?
    I used to have the catalogs for 97 and 98. My recollection is that 98 was the year Keith noted in the catalog that he was "done jousting windmills" and that they were switching to 1-1/8". I guess that could mean they were still making both, but it seems like it would've been a confusing time at the Trek facility.

    I consider myself to be a pretty voracious Bontrager fan, but am by no means an authority.

  28. #1328
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    Wife's 97 Privateer S is also a 1".

    Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

  29. #1329
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    This naked frame in the shed is 1-1/8".

    Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

  30. #1330
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    We moved into a smaller place and now we're rearranging. I'm having trouble compressing.

    Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

  31. #1331
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    I've got another green 97 Privateer Comp at my cousin's place. It's a 1". And the burgundy one I built for him, 97 Privateer S, also a 1".

    Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

  32. #1332
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    290
    K,

    Nice collection you got there, shame none of them have a rigid Bonty fork, is that your preference or is it the scarcity/cost? FYI there's a really nice chrome comp fork out here in the Bay Area (CA), but the seller wants pretty top dollar. I have one on my Salsa Jelly Bean dirt drop and an IRD Ti one for a 1991 purple Race.. BTW, really dig that Bontrager chainring! Let me know if that's headed for storage. Cheers

  33. #1333
    gobsmacked Moderator
    Reputation: girlonbike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,704
    You really are the king of the outings.

  34. #1334
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Claus View Post
    K,

    Nice collection you got there, shame none of them have a rigid Bonty fork, is that your preference or is it the scarcity/cost? FYI there's a really nice chrome comp fork out here in the Bay Area (CA), but the seller wants pretty top dollar. I have one on my Salsa Jelly Bean dirt drop and an IRD Ti one for a 1991 purple Race.. BTW, really dig that Bontrager chainring! Let me know if that's headed for storage. Cheers
    At the time these were accumulating, it was my preference. Now I wish I'd gotten one, but not bad enough to throw down the big bucks.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  35. #1335
    Hardtail Steel Forever
    Reputation: jestep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,043
    So right now, I have:
    97 Burgandy Privateer S 1"
    96 Silver Privateer Comp 1"
    99 Rasta w/1 1/8" headtube
    99 Blue/cream/orange w/ 1" headtube
    95 B29 w/ 1" Headtube
    97? B1 w/ 1 1/8" Headtube

    I'm starting to think they used whatever headtube stock was closest to the bench...

    Separate question for anyone, I've had this in my garage waiting for me to do something with it for some time.

    Official Bontrager Thread-20170425_124113-medium-.jpg

    Did these ever come with a fork like this stock? I figured it was aftermarket but if so someone color matched it perfectly if that's the case. This is the same frame color scheme that I had a 1 1/8" frame some time ago. This one is 1".
    Last edited by jestep; 04-25-2017 at 12:37 PM.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  36. #1336
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    You really are the king of the outings.
    Wow, nothing gets by you GOB, you're like the eye of Soron.

  37. #1337
    the new Gilbert Grape
    Reputation: laffeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,839
    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    I'm starting to think they used whatever headtube stock was closest to the bench...
    My guess is that the last batch(es) of Privateers were built with 1 1/8" head tubes. The 1 inch frames that were sold later were likely made earlier but had not sold. In the late 80's there weren't many people looking to buy steel frames.

  38. #1338
    velocipede technician
    Reputation: hollister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,853
    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post

    Did these ever come with a fork like this stock? I figured it was aftermarket but if so someone color matched it perfectly if that's the case. This is the same frame color scheme that I had a 1 1/8" frame some time ago. This one is 1".
    Yes. Privateer W/LX group, the next step up was the S (same group w/quadra 21r)
    looking for 20-21" P team

  39. #1339
    'Calm Down'
    Reputation: GrumpyOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    My guess is that the last batch(es) of Privateers were built with 1 1/8" head tubes. The 1 inch frames that were sold later were likely made earlier but had not sold. In the late 90's there weren't many people looking to buy steel frames.
    That's what I was told by a Bontrager Sales Rep at a CABDA show in ~1998. (The same show I met Sheldon Brown at...)

    -jw
    -

    "And single-speeding 29ers are mountain biking's equivalent of Scientologists..." - Captain Dondo

  40. #1340
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    My old Racelite. Probably 95ish. Built to look more or less like a photo from the catalog except for the RaceFace cranks, IRC Mythos XC tires, and the Hadley hubs. Mostly Deore XT, shifters are XTR.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  41. #1341
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kenjihara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    354
    This one is a little older, since it has the two piece seatstays. Pretty sure it's also a Racelite due to the facing of the headtube. Just added Konus coil springs to my tired old Judy XC. This one is an XT bike with Deore LX shifter brake levers because I preferred the '95 LX brake lever shape.

    I bought this one as a new old stock frame with tags on it and built it up.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  42. #1342
    bipolar-roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    780

    What year Race?

    Hey, I just picked up an early 90's race frame and am trying to pinpoint the year. Any help would be appreciated!

    It has the two piece seat stays so that makes me think before '94 or '95.
    It has vertical drop outs, but does not have a seat tube/clamp gusset

    I have another Race, that is to big for my liking, which I was told is a '93 by the original owner. Other than size, the bikes seem to be the same except it has the seat tube/clamp gusset and the other does not.

    Anyone know what year the seat tube gusset was added?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by singletrackmack; 2 Days Ago at 06:50 PM.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

    "I only had like two winekills captain buzzcooler"

  43. #1343
    bipolar-roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    780
    Some pics if that helps.

    Official Bontrager Thread-image.jpeg

    Official Bontrager Thread-image.jpeg
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

    "I only had like two winekills captain buzzcooler"

  44. #1344
    the new Gilbert Grape
    Reputation: laffeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,839
    Hmm..... that's not a feature that I've paid much attention to. I don't know the answer. However, there is a vintage Bontrager page on FaceBook that Keith and several ex-employees post to regularly. You may want to ask there.

  45. #1345
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    78
    The seattube gussets are one of the earliest features of Bontrager frames. On my 91' OR they already are in place. Is there are pulley for the FD on the driveside seattube? Is the frame suspension corrected?

  46. #1346
    bipolar-roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    780
    Laffeaux, thanks and I will look for that FB page if I can't find an answer.

    Caemis, that's earlier than i thought since I always thought that the vertical drops outs didn't start until after '92 and before that they used the sliding dropouts. The bike does have the pulley for the FD, but am not sure about suspension corrected. Is there a way to tell if it is suspension corrected without the frame built up to measure angles?
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

    "I only had like two winekills captain buzzcooler"

  47. #1347
    mtbr member
    Reputation: iamkeith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    776
    Quote Originally Posted by caemis View Post
    The seattube gussets are one of the earliest features of Bontrager frames. On my 91' OR they already are in place. Is there are pulley for the FD on the driveside seattube? Is the frame suspension corrected?
    Looks like you guys might be talking about two different things. There are gussets at the sides of the seat tube at the connection to the bottom bracket shell, but there is also a "reinforcement" gusset at the bottom of the notch where the top of the seat tube clamps to a seatpost.


    @Mack's appears to have the former, but not the later. In case it helps, my 90 OR has neither, but my '94 race and newer race lite have both. So, unless it was an oversight during production, I'd guess that puts it in the range you were thinking: 'late 92 - '93? Total speculation, though. I've seen many people say that their horizontal dropout Race was a '92.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think that a bonty's "year" is as cut-and-dry as with many manufacturers who ordered or built frames in large batches. I'm pretty sure the Santa Cruz shop was building frames successively and continuously, so evolution was constant, and subtle changes probably happened all the time. Would be nice to see that confirmed.

    As to determining whether it is suspension corrected or not, I think it really is easiest to mock up a build and measure the frame angles. But there was a slight difference in top tube lengths, shown in the attached schedules. (From '92* and '94) The difficulty is knowing how to measure, and I'm still not 100% sure I understand. Is it effective or straight, center to center, end-to-end, etc. For that matter, I also still don't really know if the angles are cited with fork sag or not. If yours happens to be an XXL, I could help compare against mine which I know to be suspension corrected.

    Official Bontrager Thread-92suspvsnonsuspgeometry.jpg

    Official Bontrager Thread-94geometry.jpg

    (*Unfortunately, the resolution on the image isn't quite good enough to see if the seat tube clamp reinforcement existed in '92)
    We still hang bike thieves in Wyoming [Pedal House]

  48. #1348
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    Looks like you guys might be talking about two different things. There are gussets at the sides of the seat tube at the connection to the bottom bracket shell, but there is also a "reinforcement" gusset at the bottom of the notch where the top of the seat tube clamps to a seatpost.
    You're absolutely right @iamkeith - but at least as far I can tell from the pics above there are no gussets at the bottom bracket as well. I had to check some other pictures to find the small gusset you are talking about - I had one on my 95' Race (but no FD pulley), on my OR there is no such gusset. Sorry for the confusion.

  49. #1349
    bipolar-roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    780
    Ok, so yes, it sounds like we were talking about different things. The bike in question does have the gussets on the seat tube at the BB, but not at the top of the seat tube near the collar. Below is a pic of the seat tube gusset near the collar on what I think is a '93 Race. The orange bonty does not have this gusset.

    So, if I understand this correctly, the order of progression was:

    No seat tube gussets, sliding drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB seat tube gussets, sliding drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB seat tube gusset, vertical drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB and collar seat tube gussets, vertical drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB and collar seat tube gussets, vertical drop outs & 1 piece stays

    Does this look right?

    If so does anyone have a guess as to the years or abouts of these changes?


    Official Bontrager Thread-image.jpeg

    Official Bontrager Thread-image.jpeg
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

    "I only had like two winekills captain buzzcooler"

  50. #1350
    bipolar-roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    780
    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    @Mack's appears to have the former, but not the later. In case it helps, my 90 OR has neither, but my '94 race and newer race lite have both. So, unless it was an oversight during production, I'd guess that puts it in the range you were thinking: 'late 92 - '93? Total speculation, though. I've seen many people say that their horizontal dropout Race was a '92...

    As to determining whether it is suspension corrected or not, I think it really is easiest to mock up a build and measure the frame angles. But there was a slight difference in top tube lengths, shown in the attached schedules. (From '92* and '94) The difficulty is knowing how to measure, and I'm still not 100% sure I understand. Is it effective or straight, center to center, end-to-end, etc. For that matter, I also still don't really know if the angles are cited with fork sag or not. If yours happens to be an XXL, I could help compare against mine which I know to be suspension corrected.
    Hmm, the orange bonty is a XL so comparing won't help there I don't think, but my other is also an XXL and I was told by original owner it is suspension correct. Also came with bonty specific RS fork crown, so pretty sure it is. I will measure just to compare anyways.

    However, I can see in both the scans you posted (and thank you for that, they are awesome) that it says "c-c". When measuring the orange frame it is pretty much right on the mark for 19" c to c from BB to center of the top tub, but the TT measurement is more like 23.25 instead of 23.4, however I was using a tape measure and for some reason it seems harder to measure the TT accurately than the ST. Maybe it's just me, however it is definetly not over 23 1/2" c to c so I am thinking it is suspension correct. And good thing since that bomber the frame is sitting on is the only decent 1" head tube fork I could find.

    Quote Originally Posted by caemis View Post
    You're absolutely right @iamkeith - but at least as far I can tell from the pics above there are no gussets at the bottom bracket as well. I had to check some other pictures to find the small gusset you are talking about - I had one on my 95' Race (but no FD pulley), on my OR there is no such gusset. Sorry for the confusion.
    Hey, thanks for the help. Just curious, does your OR have sliding dropouts or not?
    Also, Above I posted a pic of that seat tub clamp area reinforcement gusset from my XXL just cause.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

    "I only had like two winekills captain buzzcooler"

  51. #1351
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    78
    Yes, my OR has horizontal Dropouts:



    Also the build came to an abrupte stop after the painter informed me about rustholes at the chainstay I'll see what I can do for it...
    Cheers!

  52. #1352
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    290
    Marco,

    You've been busy or is that Bonty an older acquisition? The fork is sweet, that looks to be just like my eggplant purple 91-92 Bonty OR which also has the horizontal dropouts. I'm curious now about the gusset question, after work I'll look more closely at the frame and post a pic or two. Having lived in Santa Cruz for a few years, knowing the vibe down there I'm not surprised there were some "irregularities" in that shop. I have a soft spot for SC frame makers, and personally think Bontrager's are great bikes, steep head tube angle, sloping top tube and rigid fork make them very nimble ride IMHO. Dig it

  53. #1353
    mtbr member
    Reputation: iamkeith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    776
    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    Hmm, the orange bonty is a XL so comparing won't help there I don't think, but my other is also an XXL and I was told by original owner it is suspension correct. Also came with bonty specific RS fork crown, so pretty sure it is. I will measure just to compare anyways.

    However, I can see in both the scans you posted (and thank you for that, they are awesome) that it says "c-c". When measuring the orange frame it is pretty much right on the mark for 19" c to c from BB to center of the top tub, but the TT measurement is more like 23.25 instead of 23.4, however I was using a tape measure and for some reason it seems harder to measure the TT accurately than the ST. Maybe it's just me, however it is definetly not over 23 1/2" c to c so I am thinking it is suspension correct.
    Ok this will help - i'd forgotten that the catalog actually stated c-c for the seattube measurement. That means mine are actually XL, not XXL (the thing that always throws me off is that my ti lite is stamped 21", which is c-t but, since it was outsourced, that doesn't really mean anything)

    The ACTUAL top tube c-c on a suspension-corrected, xl frame (measured along the side of the tube itself) is 23". So 23.4" is the effective (horizontal) measurement.


    If you're really lucky, yours will be NON suspension corrected, btw. Much rarer, and it's always possible to find a bonty fork with enough time and money. No such thing as a "good" 1" suspension fork, on the other hand - only "acceptable."
    We still hang bike thieves in Wyoming [Pedal House]

  54. #1354
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Claus View Post
    Marco,

    You've been busy or is that Bonty an older acquisition? The fork is sweet, that looks to be just like my eggplant purple 91-92 Bonty OR which also has the horizontal dropouts. I'm curious now about the gusset question, after work I'll look more closely at the frame and post a pic or two. Having lived in Santa Cruz for a few years, knowing the vibe down there I'm not surprised there were some "irregularities" in that shop. I have a soft spot for SC frame makers, and personally think Bontrager's are great bikes, steep head tube angle, sloping top tube and rigid fork make them very nimble ride IMHO. Dig it
    Hi, this is my old Bonty as a new acquisition - I asked the former buyer/owner if he is willing to sell it back to me a few weeks ago, because I missed it. I'll try to get it home tomorrow from the painter and see what the rust has done to it. All the best!

  55. #1355
    the new Gilbert Grape
    Reputation: laffeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,839
    I'm not positive on the order of the changes from below, but after looking at a few frames in the basement...

    - I have two with two-piece (segmented) stays and both have vertical non-adjustable dropouts. One has the small gusset at the top of the seat tube and the other does not. My personal guess on age are '94-'95 on one and '92-'93 on the other, but those could be off.

    - I also have a tapered stay Race and Race Lite. Both have all the gussets.

    My guess is that there was some overlap with vertical and horizontal dropouts were both offered. A few Race Lites have the horizontal dropouts, so they still existed at least until it's introduction.

    And as Keith said, there's not really a "model year" for Bontragers. Changes were made when changes were needed or a "better" way was found. Nailing down dates exactly is hard because what shop received as stock might not have been the newest frames. Only the guys on the factory floor "may" know the whole story.

    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    So, if I understand this correctly, the order of progression was:

    No seat tube gussets, sliding drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB seat tube gussets, sliding drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB seat tube gusset, vertical drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB and collar seat tube gussets, vertical drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB and collar seat tube gussets, vertical drop outs & 1 piece stays

    Does this look right?

    If so does anyone have a guess as to the years or abouts of these changes?
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  56. #1356
    the new Gilbert Grape
    Reputation: laffeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,839
    I bought an interesting frame this past weekend. It's a standard early '90s Race that was on eBay: Bontrager OR Mountain Bike Vintage MTB w/ Extra Vicious Cycle Fork | eBay
    It seemed like a good deal, the frame was my size, came with a few nice parts, and most interestingly the decals looked kind of odd. It sold for a reasonable price, so I ended up with it.

    Once it arrived the reason that the decals looked "off" is that they're not decals. They're painted on. I kind of suspected it from the pictures but wasn't sure until I saw it in person. The finish is wet paint applied by Cyclart, and the panels (and I'm pretty sure the head badge) are applied as paint. It's the nicest looking finish I've seen on a Bontrager - it has a few chips here and there, but the wet paint looks really nice, and the red panels look so much brighter than decals.

    I've asked the seller if knows anything about the finish, but I'm guessing not. It's not-original, but kind of cooler than original in my book.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  57. #1357
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    78
    I got my OR back from the painter today. The holes are quite tiny (less than 1mm) but still...:





    The rest of the frame looks pretty good...

  58. #1358
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    290
    EL, that is an interesting find, never saw that on the Bay, but I'm looking less and trying to finish a project. You're right that wet paint and painted decal look awesome and unique, plus the fork and brakes are pretty nice, a better than fair price I would say (even with shipping).

    Marco, hmm, those don't look too bad, but I wonder if there is more damage in the internal tubes, meaning rusted from the inside out? A frame builder or the likes would know better. Does the tube "feel" or seem thinner near those pin-holes?

    Cheers all and happy dog-days of summer.

  59. #1359
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Claus View Post
    Marco, hmm, those don't look too bad, but I wonder if there is more damage in the internal tubes, meaning rusted from the inside out? A frame builder or the likes would know better. Does the tube "feel" or seem thinner near those pin-holes?

    Cheers all and happy dog-days of summer.
    Hard to tell, the tube does not feel and sound different to me. And there a holes on the downside as well as on the upside of the chainstay; but I have no idea what could cause such damage in and/or outside the tube. Well, I already contacted a frame builder here but maybe I gonna ask Paul or if possible Keith Bontrager for their opinion.

    Besides, I like this naked frames, the welding and brazing is awesome.

    Have a good weekend (of course all of you)

Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 41011121314

Similar Threads

  1. Santa Cruz Bontragers count?
    By loonyOne in forum Custom Builders & Other Manufacturers
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-24-2013, 03:05 PM
  2. Any Nontragers out there?
    By Boy named SSue in forum Vintage, Retro, Classic
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 06-11-2012, 07:40 PM
  3. Bontrager ACX 2.1 Tires?/Lite Tire Recs?
    By titustiguy in forum Weight Weenies
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-20-2004, 07:33 PM

Members who have read this thread: 132

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •