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  1. #1301
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    G1, thanks for the tip, I'll do just that.

    Colker, yeah he's still pretty lively and his wife is helping in the shop, he has some trouble speaking, but if you listen carefully he still has some great stories and still has a great passion for frame building and repairs. He was working on repairing a beautiful early to mid 80's Colnago....cheers

  2. #1302
    Dual Squishy...
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Yeah, the serial number mean nothing. A large batch of dropouts were made, stamped with numbers, and then the dropouts were thrown into a box. Builders reached into the box and grabbed dropouts randomly.

    The exception to that is bikes in the really early '90s. The tend to have serial numbers on the BBs which includes the year of manufacture. The Race and Race Lite from however do not (see above).

    '94(ish) is a good guess. There aren't model years. Things changed as needed, and the changes were pretty minimal" drop out shape, FD roller, FD cable stop location, decals, seat stays,... maybe that's it. Post pics and maybe there will be something to narrow it down, but '94 +/- a year is pretty good.
    Here is the thread where I rebuilt it into a single speed. A resto-mod so to speak. Changed the bars and turned it into a 1x10 since I did the built up here:
    My '92 OR Race Lite buildup...

    I thought it was a '92, but was corrected way back. Also, one other thing. The 0231 serial number was on the official Bontrager owner's manual/paperwork I got with the frame. I should take a picture of that at some point...
    ___________________________________________
    1994 Bontrager OR Lite
    2014 FatBoy Pro
    2015 Mach 6c
    2015 Following
    2016 SB6c

  3. #1303
    velocipede technician
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    >takes victory lap<
    looking for 20-21" P team

  4. #1304
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    >takes victory lap<
    Nice side-by-side pic, that's great for comparison.

    Is that a threadless steerer on the taller fork? It looks like the crown is the same as the Bontrager crowns for the RS Mag 10/20/21. Does anyone know the diameter of the steer tube at the crown pinch bolts for the rigid forks?

    I have a '92 Race rigid fork just like the one on the right (395mm), and I'm thinking of swapping out the crown for one I have from a Mag to get a little extra height (to better fit a suspension-corrected '95 frame). I was thinking of also installing either a threadless steel steerer or a titanium threaded steerer from an old Marzocchi fork crown if it's the same diameter (that steer tube needs a shim to fit in Marzocchi crowns, but it might fit without the shim).

  5. #1305
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    I think a little research has answered most of my questions.

    Hollister's beautiful tall fork is a 29" model, with a threadless steerer installed (I think that's right). That model had the arched brace, which adds a little room for tire clearance and raises the axle-to-crown slightly.

    I pulled out my RockShox Mag, and the crown brace is quite different, it has the pinch bolts on the outside, not between the stanchions and the steertube. It's black, but has smooth rounded edges and no logo/markings.

    I also pulled out my Bontrager rigid fork, and realized I could put a caliper on the underside of the brace to measure the steer tube diameter. It appears to be 27.2mm, which would be great, because that is the exact size of Marzocchi steerer without a shim, as well as RST threaded/threadless steerers that are available online new for $20 each.

    I can see that the original steerer has a retaining ring which sits in a groove at the bottom of the steerer tube. I could cut a similar groove, and/or remove some material from the bottom of the steerer tube if necessary. It appears the crown race seat is long enough to peek above the collar. Has anyone attempted such a conversion with the RST steerers?

    With the earlier discussion about custom built replacement steerer tubes for these forks, I have to ask, is there anything unusual about the shape of the steer tube? I can't seem to tell without prying the current steerer out, which I will do next.


  6. #1306
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    Someone else needs to answer questions regarding Hollister's crown, but I thought I should mention something quickly in the meantime, before you make a mistake:

    You don't need to "pry" the steerer out of your fork! Prying the crown open could damage it. Just loosen the clamp bolts at the crown, and tap the steerer down from the top. Protect the threads, obviously. The crown race and the shim that it is seated on will come loose as the steerer tube drops, and slide off the top. (if they are even that tight to begin with) SAVE THE SHIM! There is nothing special about the steerer tube itself - it's just straight 1" steerer the entire length. Unlike many forks, the crown race seat is not created by a bulge in the tube - it is created by the above mentioned and difficult-to-find shim.
    We still hang bike thieves in Wyoming [Pedal House]

  7. #1307
    velocipede technician
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    It's a bontrager suspension crown(mag 20 I believe)

    When I bought it it had a different crown with the same dimensions, that I swapped for the one above

    Yes, that's a thread less steer in the first pic


    AC 418 without a CRA
    looking for 20-21" P team

  8. #1308
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    OT, but that's a nice little stash of odds and ends, bits of marinovative brakes and is that a RM-2? If so, does it have a home?

  9. #1309
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjor View Post
    Nice side-by-side pic, that's great for comparison.

    Is that a threadless steerer on the taller fork? It looks like the crown is the same as the Bontrager crowns for the RS Mag 10/20/21. Does anyone know the diameter of the steer tube at the crown pinch bolts for the rigid forks?

    I have a '92 Race rigid fork just like the one on the right (395mm), and I'm thinking of swapping out the crown for one I have from a Mag to get a little extra height (to better fit a suspension-corrected '95 frame). I was thinking of also installing either a threadless steel steerer or a titanium threaded steerer from an old Marzocchi fork crown if it's the same diameter (that steer tube needs a shim to fit in Marzocchi crowns, but it might fit without the shim).
    why would you want to butcher that Bontrager fork? If you must use it on your build and need to acomodate a different axle to crown height, keep the crown and get some new legs. What´s the point in getting rid of the cool bonty crown and swapping for a mass produced RS? Why swap the steerer for an RST or titanium? Weight savings? You will race xc on that bike?
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  10. #1310
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    why would you want to butcher that Bontrager fork? If you must use it on your build and need to acomodate a different axle to crown height, keep the crown and get some new legs. What´s the point in getting rid of the cool bonty crown and swapping for a mass produced RS? Why swap the steerer for an RST or titanium? Weight savings? You will race xc on that bike?
    Great question. The reason for considering a threadless steerer was to make it easy to swap between 2 vintage steel rigid, 2 modern carbon rigid, and 5 suspension forks on my 4 Bontrager frames. I don't tend to do trail riding in the winter months, so I'd like to switch to rigid for road training. I'm building up one frame as a 27.5, but I'll use an Exotic carbon fork with the 425 AC for that, rather that trying to stuff it into the Bontrager fork with the ugly Mag crown. I'd be better off installing the titanium steerer to save weight off of a suspension fork. I'm just going to install the Bontrager fork and enjoy it.

    I think I'm probably not going to swap all that often, so if I install either Cane Creek or Chris King headsets all around I can swap the top nut between threaded and threadless without touching the cups. One frame is a 1 1/8 inch Privateer, but I ordered some headtube reducers to let me replace the headset with a 1" for ease of sharing forks. Any opinions on that before I install them? If it's a bad idea I'll find another solution, like assigning one rigid and one suspension fork to each frame, with the appropriate steerer for the headset.

    Oh, and if you are wondering why I want to ride 4 different Bontragers? Its because I don't have a fifth yet. ;-) Also, I have a lot of back problems, and find that changing between bikes with different positions (between wide, flat w/bar-end, and drop bars) helps strengthen additional back muscles and reduces my pain.

  11. #1311
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    My Bontrager OR project bike!

    Thought I had better start posting pics of my latest find before I really start messing around! Been wanting an original non-suspended Bonty since forever, and nearly got one back in the early 90's but ordered a Yeti FRO instead. This is going to be a "patina" restore: not going for a full repaint and am using mostly period-correct parts for the build. The brakes are NOT tho, because I don't have anything else laying around I like better than these old-style newer cantilevers. I am thinking that this frame is from 1990-92? The residue from the old straight edged stickers is still visible, and I am removing the incorrect angled ones. It came with the fork, and I am super-stoked about that! I really need those proper decals, tho... Not sure about wheels yet. I have an old Nuke laying around for the front, and might be able to salvage an old American Classic rear. Have a newer Syncros seatpost and old Tioga T-Bone stem to use, XT older crank and thumbies ('natch!) Might even run toe clips with my XC pro pedals!

    First order of business is to get the frame cleaned of rust and proctected. I think that chainsuck gouge is OK. I could use the chainsuck plates too.. they are missing! Thanks for reading about my project and wish me luck!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official Bontrager Thread-bonty_full.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-cableguide_cleanup.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-cableguide1.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-drivedropout2.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-driveside_cleanup.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-fork_dropouts.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-fork_front.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-seatcluster1.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-front_pulley.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-seatstay_rear.jpg  


  12. #1312
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    That's a nice find, double bonus for the original fork! I have a couple Bonty's and from what I've seen and learned here I would say closer to 1990 (semi-horizontal drop outs and riveted cable stops), but I'll defer to more smarty people than me. Is that what Bontrager would have called a large? As you probably know retrodecal makes pretty good replacement straight edged decals I have them on a 1992 (https://www.facebook.com/retrodecals/) Enjoy and keep us updated.

  13. #1313
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    I think it's 1993 or earlier. Check out my 1994 Race restoration, let me know if you have any other questions.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/members/yardl...e-restoration/
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official Bontrager Thread-3-img_6089.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-1994-bontrager-rigid-fork.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-1994-race.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-9-img_6085.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-8-img_6141.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-6-img_6096.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-5-img_6093.jpg  


  14. #1314
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    That's a beauty! Very classy vintage look.

    I have the same frame (medium) in British racing green. Recently fixed it up will post pics soon.

    Where did you get the Trager decal for your stem?

  15. #1315
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    I would also love to get some of those stem stickers as well.

  16. #1316
    Relax. I'm a pro.
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    What a beauty. What's the RAL number for that green powdercoat?
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  17. #1317
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    I'm not able to view anything on the resto link. Can you tell us more about that fork? Cheers, beautiful bike.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  18. #1318
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    I am the orignal owner of this 1994 Race I bought for single track. As I now live in the concrete jungle I have converted it to an "Urban Adventure Bike" and am loving it. Paint is original British Racing Green and needs a little touch up.

    Some key components are 27 speed Gripshift with XT Rear, WTB cantilever brakes with curved Kool Stop dual compound pads, Brooks Swift Titanium saddle, TiGR mini lock, Moots Ti TailGater bag, Manitou 4 with new elastomers, Lumos helmet with turn signal and accelerometer activated brake light. Swept back post so I can tuck into wind more and stretch out.

    Official Bontrager Thread-20170403_191712.jpgOfficial Bontrager Thread-20170328_173051.jpgOfficial Bontrager Thread-20170328_170203.jpg


    Official Bontrager Thread-20170328_164112.jpg

  19. #1319
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    I'm trying to ID this and determine whether this is a pre or post-Trek Bontrager:









    Thoughts?

  20. #1320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron47pb View Post
    I'm trying to ID this and determine whether this is a pre or post-Trek Bontrager:









    Thoughts?
    It is definitely a Santa Cruz bike. You can tell by the head tube and the shape of the drop outs. There will also be butterfly gussets at the bottom bracket junction with the chainstays and seat tube. These details are only found on Santa Cruz made Bontragers.

  21. #1321
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    Pics aren't showing for me, but I could tell if I saw it (worked at Trek at that time).
    Keep in mind that if it has a one inch headtube, it was made in Santa Cruz. Only the 'Privateer' model had a 1.125" headset and was welded in Waterloo, WI at the Trek factory.
    As far as I know, there were no new Race and Racelite frames produced after the merger. And none were made by Trek so I always think it's funny when people refer to pre- or post- Trek Bontragers. However Trek took a couple years to sell through the Bontrager frame inventory after the merger.

  22. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by restlessrider View Post
    Pics aren't showing for me, but I could tell if I saw it (worked at Trek at that time).
    Keep in mind that if it has a one inch headtube, it was made in Santa Cruz. Only the 'Privateer' model had a 1.125" headset and was welded in Waterloo, WI at the Trek factory.
    As far as I know, there were no new Race and Racelite frames produced after the merger. And none were made by Trek so I always think it's funny when people refer to pre- or post- Trek Bontragers. However Trek took a couple years to sell through the Bontrager frame inventory after the merger.
    At least the first two years of production Bontrager Privateers had 1" headtubes. I own several from 1997 and two from 1996 and they all have 1" headtubes. I only have two Bontragers with 1 1/8" headtubes, one a Privateer Comp from probably the last year they were made and another from the year before (98?) which I stripped down to a naked frame but never got around to having powdercoated. It's hanging in the shed.

    Both of my Racelites are relatively late model. One has two part seatstays and one had one piece seatstays. The Racelite (probably) we're talking about seemed to have one piece rather than two piece seatstays so it would have been relatively late production, but was still not a Wisconsin made bike.

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  23. #1323
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    I can't see the pices either.

    All Race and Race Lite frames were made in Santa Cruz. No Privateers were made in Santa Cruz.

    Trek bought Bontrager in ~1995, which roughly corresponds to when the stays went from segmented to tappered. You can consider tappered frames as being post-Trek Santa Cruz frames, and those with segmented stays as pre-Trek Santa Cruz frames.

    Privateers were built by Trek in WI.

  24. #1324
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    How about these?

    Official Bontrager Thread-mrpopqp.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-ocwsdnj.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-2vwj9pf.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-kg797iw.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-s8gldmy.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-ty1mw3j.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-3jrelpq.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-81qcoae.jpg
    Official Bontrager Thread-vpljs49.jpg

  25. #1325
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    That's a Race Lite made by Bontrager Cycles in Santa Cruz after Trek purchased the company.

  26. #1326
    Hardtail Steel Forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenjihara View Post
    At least the first two years of production Bontrager Privateers had 1" headtubes. I own several from 1997 and two from 1996 and they all have 1" headtubes. I only have two Bontragers with 1 1/8" headtubes, one a Privateer Comp from probably the last year they were made and another from the year before (98?) which I stripped down to a naked frame but never got around to having powdercoated. It's hanging in the shed.
    I've seen 1 1/8" privateers from 98 and 99, but they were being produced at the same time as identical 1" versions. I know this because I have had 2 pairs of matching privateers with different head tube sizes. The Rasta Green/Red/Yellow and the Blue/Cream/Orange are the only 2 I've ever seen with 1 1/8" headtubes, but I've had identical 1" versions of each bike. I've never seen a 1 1/8" in any color but these. Was yours a different color than these?
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  27. #1327
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    I've seen 1 1/8" privateers from 98 and 99, but they were being produced at the same time as identical 1" versions. I know this because I have had 2 pairs of matching privateers with different head tube sizes. The Rasta Green/Red/Yellow and the Blue/Cream/Orange are the only 2 I've ever seen with 1 1/8" headtubes, but I've had identical 1" versions of each bike. I've never seen a 1 1/8" in any color but these. Was yours a different color than these?
    I used to have the catalogs for 97 and 98. My recollection is that 98 was the year Keith noted in the catalog that he was "done jousting windmills" and that they were switching to 1-1/8". I guess that could mean they were still making both, but it seems like it would've been a confusing time at the Trek facility.

    I consider myself to be a pretty voracious Bontrager fan, but am by no means an authority.

  28. #1328
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    Wife's 97 Privateer S is also a 1".

    Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

  29. #1329
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    This naked frame in the shed is 1-1/8".

    Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

  30. #1330
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    We moved into a smaller place and now we're rearranging. I'm having trouble compressing.

    Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

  31. #1331
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    I've got another green 97 Privateer Comp at my cousin's place. It's a 1". And the burgundy one I built for him, 97 Privateer S, also a 1".

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  32. #1332
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    K,

    Nice collection you got there, shame none of them have a rigid Bonty fork, is that your preference or is it the scarcity/cost? FYI there's a really nice chrome comp fork out here in the Bay Area (CA), but the seller wants pretty top dollar. I have one on my Salsa Jelly Bean dirt drop and an IRD Ti one for a 1991 purple Race.. BTW, really dig that Bontrager chainring! Let me know if that's headed for storage. Cheers

  33. #1333
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    You really are the king of the outings.

  34. #1334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Claus View Post
    K,

    Nice collection you got there, shame none of them have a rigid Bonty fork, is that your preference or is it the scarcity/cost? FYI there's a really nice chrome comp fork out here in the Bay Area (CA), but the seller wants pretty top dollar. I have one on my Salsa Jelly Bean dirt drop and an IRD Ti one for a 1991 purple Race.. BTW, really dig that Bontrager chainring! Let me know if that's headed for storage. Cheers
    At the time these were accumulating, it was my preference. Now I wish I'd gotten one, but not bad enough to throw down the big bucks.

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  35. #1335
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    So right now, I have:
    97 Burgandy Privateer S 1"
    96 Silver Privateer Comp 1"
    99 Rasta w/1 1/8" headtube
    99 Blue/cream/orange w/ 1" headtube
    95 B29 w/ 1" Headtube
    97? B1 w/ 1 1/8" Headtube

    I'm starting to think they used whatever headtube stock was closest to the bench...

    Separate question for anyone, I've had this in my garage waiting for me to do something with it for some time.

    Official Bontrager Thread-20170425_124113-medium-.jpg

    Did these ever come with a fork like this stock? I figured it was aftermarket but if so someone color matched it perfectly if that's the case. This is the same frame color scheme that I had a 1 1/8" frame some time ago. This one is 1".
    Last edited by jestep; 04-25-2017 at 12:37 PM.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  36. #1336
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    You really are the king of the outings.
    Wow, nothing gets by you GOB, you're like the eye of Soron.

  37. #1337
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    I'm starting to think they used whatever headtube stock was closest to the bench...
    My guess is that the last batch(es) of Privateers were built with 1 1/8" head tubes. The 1 inch frames that were sold later were likely made earlier but had not sold. In the late 80's there weren't many people looking to buy steel frames.

  38. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post

    Did these ever come with a fork like this stock? I figured it was aftermarket but if so someone color matched it perfectly if that's the case. This is the same frame color scheme that I had a 1 1/8" frame some time ago. This one is 1".
    Yes. Privateer W/LX group, the next step up was the S (same group w/quadra 21r)
    looking for 20-21" P team

  39. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    My guess is that the last batch(es) of Privateers were built with 1 1/8" head tubes. The 1 inch frames that were sold later were likely made earlier but had not sold. In the late 90's there weren't many people looking to buy steel frames.
    That's what I was told by a Bontrager Sales Rep at a CABDA show in ~1998. (The same show I met Sheldon Brown at...)

    -jw
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    "And single-speeding 29ers are mountain biking's equivalent of Scientologists..." - Captain Dondo

  40. #1340
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    My old Racelite. Probably 95ish. Built to look more or less like a photo from the catalog except for the RaceFace cranks, IRC Mythos XC tires, and the Hadley hubs. Mostly Deore XT, shifters are XTR.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  41. #1341
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    This one is a little older, since it has the two piece seatstays. Pretty sure it's also a Racelite due to the facing of the headtube. Just added Konus coil springs to my tired old Judy XC. This one is an XT bike with Deore LX shifter brake levers because I preferred the '95 LX brake lever shape.

    I bought this one as a new old stock frame with tags on it and built it up.

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  42. #1342
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    What year Race?

    Hey, I just picked up an early 90's race frame and am trying to pinpoint the year. Any help would be appreciated!

    It has the two piece seat stays so that makes me think before '94 or '95.
    It has vertical drop outs, but does not have a seat tube/clamp gusset

    I have another Race, that is to big for my liking, which I was told is a '93 by the original owner. Other than size, the bikes seem to be the same except it has the seat tube/clamp gusset and the other does not.

    Anyone know what year the seat tube gusset was added?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by singletrackmack; 07-18-2017 at 06:50 PM.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

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  43. #1343
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    Some pics if that helps.

    Official Bontrager Thread-image.jpeg

    Official Bontrager Thread-image.jpeg
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  44. #1344
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    Hmm..... that's not a feature that I've paid much attention to. I don't know the answer. However, there is a vintage Bontrager page on FaceBook that Keith and several ex-employees post to regularly. You may want to ask there.

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    The seattube gussets are one of the earliest features of Bontrager frames. On my 91' OR they already are in place. Is there are pulley for the FD on the driveside seattube? Is the frame suspension corrected?

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    Laffeaux, thanks and I will look for that FB page if I can't find an answer.

    Caemis, that's earlier than i thought since I always thought that the vertical drops outs didn't start until after '92 and before that they used the sliding dropouts. The bike does have the pulley for the FD, but am not sure about suspension corrected. Is there a way to tell if it is suspension corrected without the frame built up to measure angles?
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  47. #1347
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    Quote Originally Posted by caemis View Post
    The seattube gussets are one of the earliest features of Bontrager frames. On my 91' OR they already are in place. Is there are pulley for the FD on the driveside seattube? Is the frame suspension corrected?
    Looks like you guys might be talking about two different things. There are gussets at the sides of the seat tube at the connection to the bottom bracket shell, but there is also a "reinforcement" gusset at the bottom of the notch where the top of the seat tube clamps to a seatpost.


    @Mack's appears to have the former, but not the later. In case it helps, my 90 OR has neither, but my '94 race and newer race lite have both. So, unless it was an oversight during production, I'd guess that puts it in the range you were thinking: 'late 92 - '93? Total speculation, though. I've seen many people say that their horizontal dropout Race was a '92.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think that a bonty's "year" is as cut-and-dry as with many manufacturers who ordered or built frames in large batches. I'm pretty sure the Santa Cruz shop was building frames successively and continuously, so evolution was constant, and subtle changes probably happened all the time. Would be nice to see that confirmed.

    As to determining whether it is suspension corrected or not, I think it really is easiest to mock up a build and measure the frame angles. But there was a slight difference in top tube lengths, shown in the attached schedules. (From '92* and '94) The difficulty is knowing how to measure, and I'm still not 100% sure I understand. Is it effective or straight, center to center, end-to-end, etc. For that matter, I also still don't really know if the angles are cited with fork sag or not. If yours happens to be an XXL, I could help compare against mine which I know to be suspension corrected.

    Official Bontrager Thread-92suspvsnonsuspgeometry.jpg

    Official Bontrager Thread-94geometry.jpg

    (*Unfortunately, the resolution on the image isn't quite good enough to see if the seat tube clamp reinforcement existed in '92)
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  48. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    Looks like you guys might be talking about two different things. There are gussets at the sides of the seat tube at the connection to the bottom bracket shell, but there is also a "reinforcement" gusset at the bottom of the notch where the top of the seat tube clamps to a seatpost.
    You're absolutely right @iamkeith - but at least as far I can tell from the pics above there are no gussets at the bottom bracket as well. I had to check some other pictures to find the small gusset you are talking about - I had one on my 95' Race (but no FD pulley), on my OR there is no such gusset. Sorry for the confusion.

  49. #1349
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    Ok, so yes, it sounds like we were talking about different things. The bike in question does have the gussets on the seat tube at the BB, but not at the top of the seat tube near the collar. Below is a pic of the seat tube gusset near the collar on what I think is a '93 Race. The orange bonty does not have this gusset.

    So, if I understand this correctly, the order of progression was:

    No seat tube gussets, sliding drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB seat tube gussets, sliding drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB seat tube gusset, vertical drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB and collar seat tube gussets, vertical drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB and collar seat tube gussets, vertical drop outs & 1 piece stays

    Does this look right?

    If so does anyone have a guess as to the years or abouts of these changes?


    Official Bontrager Thread-image.jpeg

    Official Bontrager Thread-image.jpeg
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  50. #1350
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    @Mack's appears to have the former, but not the later. In case it helps, my 90 OR has neither, but my '94 race and newer race lite have both. So, unless it was an oversight during production, I'd guess that puts it in the range you were thinking: 'late 92 - '93? Total speculation, though. I've seen many people say that their horizontal dropout Race was a '92...

    As to determining whether it is suspension corrected or not, I think it really is easiest to mock up a build and measure the frame angles. But there was a slight difference in top tube lengths, shown in the attached schedules. (From '92* and '94) The difficulty is knowing how to measure, and I'm still not 100% sure I understand. Is it effective or straight, center to center, end-to-end, etc. For that matter, I also still don't really know if the angles are cited with fork sag or not. If yours happens to be an XXL, I could help compare against mine which I know to be suspension corrected.
    Hmm, the orange bonty is a XL so comparing won't help there I don't think, but my other is also an XXL and I was told by original owner it is suspension correct. Also came with bonty specific RS fork crown, so pretty sure it is. I will measure just to compare anyways.

    However, I can see in both the scans you posted (and thank you for that, they are awesome) that it says "c-c". When measuring the orange frame it is pretty much right on the mark for 19" c to c from BB to center of the top tub, but the TT measurement is more like 23.25 instead of 23.4, however I was using a tape measure and for some reason it seems harder to measure the TT accurately than the ST. Maybe it's just me, however it is definetly not over 23 1/2" c to c so I am thinking it is suspension correct. And good thing since that bomber the frame is sitting on is the only decent 1" head tube fork I could find.

    Quote Originally Posted by caemis View Post
    You're absolutely right @iamkeith - but at least as far I can tell from the pics above there are no gussets at the bottom bracket as well. I had to check some other pictures to find the small gusset you are talking about - I had one on my 95' Race (but no FD pulley), on my OR there is no such gusset. Sorry for the confusion.
    Hey, thanks for the help. Just curious, does your OR have sliding dropouts or not?
    Also, Above I posted a pic of that seat tub clamp area reinforcement gusset from my XXL just cause.
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  51. #1351
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    Yes, my OR has horizontal Dropouts:



    Also the build came to an abrupte stop after the painter informed me about rustholes at the chainstay I'll see what I can do for it...
    Cheers!

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    Marco,

    You've been busy or is that Bonty an older acquisition? The fork is sweet, that looks to be just like my eggplant purple 91-92 Bonty OR which also has the horizontal dropouts. I'm curious now about the gusset question, after work I'll look more closely at the frame and post a pic or two. Having lived in Santa Cruz for a few years, knowing the vibe down there I'm not surprised there were some "irregularities" in that shop. I have a soft spot for SC frame makers, and personally think Bontrager's are great bikes, steep head tube angle, sloping top tube and rigid fork make them very nimble ride IMHO. Dig it

  53. #1353
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    Hmm, the orange bonty is a XL so comparing won't help there I don't think, but my other is also an XXL and I was told by original owner it is suspension correct. Also came with bonty specific RS fork crown, so pretty sure it is. I will measure just to compare anyways.

    However, I can see in both the scans you posted (and thank you for that, they are awesome) that it says "c-c". When measuring the orange frame it is pretty much right on the mark for 19" c to c from BB to center of the top tub, but the TT measurement is more like 23.25 instead of 23.4, however I was using a tape measure and for some reason it seems harder to measure the TT accurately than the ST. Maybe it's just me, however it is definetly not over 23 1/2" c to c so I am thinking it is suspension correct.
    Ok this will help - i'd forgotten that the catalog actually stated c-c for the seattube measurement. That means mine are actually XL, not XXL (the thing that always throws me off is that my ti lite is stamped 21", which is c-t but, since it was outsourced, that doesn't really mean anything)

    The ACTUAL top tube c-c on a suspension-corrected, xl frame (measured along the side of the tube itself) is 23". So 23.4" is the effective (horizontal) measurement.


    If you're really lucky, yours will be NON suspension corrected, btw. Much rarer, and it's always possible to find a bonty fork with enough time and money. No such thing as a "good" 1" suspension fork, on the other hand - only "acceptable."
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  54. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Claus View Post
    Marco,

    You've been busy or is that Bonty an older acquisition? The fork is sweet, that looks to be just like my eggplant purple 91-92 Bonty OR which also has the horizontal dropouts. I'm curious now about the gusset question, after work I'll look more closely at the frame and post a pic or two. Having lived in Santa Cruz for a few years, knowing the vibe down there I'm not surprised there were some "irregularities" in that shop. I have a soft spot for SC frame makers, and personally think Bontrager's are great bikes, steep head tube angle, sloping top tube and rigid fork make them very nimble ride IMHO. Dig it
    Hi, this is my old Bonty as a new acquisition - I asked the former buyer/owner if he is willing to sell it back to me a few weeks ago, because I missed it. I'll try to get it home tomorrow from the painter and see what the rust has done to it. All the best!

  55. #1355
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    I'm not positive on the order of the changes from below, but after looking at a few frames in the basement...

    - I have two with two-piece (segmented) stays and both have vertical non-adjustable dropouts. One has the small gusset at the top of the seat tube and the other does not. My personal guess on age are '94-'95 on one and '92-'93 on the other, but those could be off.

    - I also have a tapered stay Race and Race Lite. Both have all the gussets.

    My guess is that there was some overlap with vertical and horizontal dropouts were both offered. A few Race Lites have the horizontal dropouts, so they still existed at least until it's introduction.

    And as Keith said, there's not really a "model year" for Bontragers. Changes were made when changes were needed or a "better" way was found. Nailing down dates exactly is hard because what shop received as stock might not have been the newest frames. Only the guys on the factory floor "may" know the whole story.

    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    So, if I understand this correctly, the order of progression was:

    No seat tube gussets, sliding drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB seat tube gussets, sliding drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB seat tube gusset, vertical drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB and collar seat tube gussets, vertical drop outs & 2 piece stays
    To
    BB and collar seat tube gussets, vertical drop outs & 1 piece stays

    Does this look right?

    If so does anyone have a guess as to the years or abouts of these changes?
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  56. #1356
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    I bought an interesting frame this past weekend. It's a standard early '90s Race that was on eBay: Bontrager OR Mountain Bike Vintage MTB w/ Extra Vicious Cycle Fork | eBay
    It seemed like a good deal, the frame was my size, came with a few nice parts, and most interestingly the decals looked kind of odd. It sold for a reasonable price, so I ended up with it.

    Once it arrived the reason that the decals looked "off" is that they're not decals. They're painted on. I kind of suspected it from the pictures but wasn't sure until I saw it in person. The finish is wet paint applied by Cyclart, and the panels (and I'm pretty sure the head badge) are applied as paint. It's the nicest looking finish I've seen on a Bontrager - it has a few chips here and there, but the wet paint looks really nice, and the red panels look so much brighter than decals.

    I've asked the seller if knows anything about the finish, but I'm guessing not. It's not-original, but kind of cooler than original in my book.
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  57. #1357
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    I got my OR back from the painter today. The holes are quite tiny (less than 1mm) but still...:





    The rest of the frame looks pretty good...

  58. #1358
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    EL, that is an interesting find, never saw that on the Bay, but I'm looking less and trying to finish a project. You're right that wet paint and painted decal look awesome and unique, plus the fork and brakes are pretty nice, a better than fair price I would say (even with shipping).

    Marco, hmm, those don't look too bad, but I wonder if there is more damage in the internal tubes, meaning rusted from the inside out? A frame builder or the likes would know better. Does the tube "feel" or seem thinner near those pin-holes?

    Cheers all and happy dog-days of summer.

  59. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Claus View Post
    Marco, hmm, those don't look too bad, but I wonder if there is more damage in the internal tubes, meaning rusted from the inside out? A frame builder or the likes would know better. Does the tube "feel" or seem thinner near those pin-holes?

    Cheers all and happy dog-days of summer.
    Hard to tell, the tube does not feel and sound different to me. And there a holes on the downside as well as on the upside of the chainstay; but I have no idea what could cause such damage in and/or outside the tube. Well, I already contacted a frame builder here but maybe I gonna ask Paul or if possible Keith Bontrager for their opinion.

    Besides, I like this naked frames, the welding and brazing is awesome.

    Have a good weekend (of course all of you)

  60. #1360
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    Quote Originally Posted by caemis View Post
    Hard to tell, the tube does not feel and sound different to me. And there a holes on the downside as well as on the upside of the chainstay; but I have no idea what could cause such damage in and/or outside the tube. Well, I already contacted a frame builder here but maybe I gonna ask Paul or if possible Keith Bontrager for their opinion.

    Besides, I like this naked frames, the welding and brazing is awesome.

    Have a good weekend (of course all of you)
    Update: The first information on the chainstay I received from Georg B. (Gebla Bikes) was: change the chainstay.

  61. #1361
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    Bummer. Given how cheap Bontrager frames sell for these days, it would be cheaper to find one for sale in nice shape.

    Quote Originally Posted by caemis View Post
    Update: The first information on the chainstay I received from Georg B. (Gebla Bikes) was: change the chainstay.

  62. #1362
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Bummer. Given how cheap Bontrager frames sell for these days, it would be cheaper to find one for sale in nice shape.
    Yeah. But you're probably right, it might be cheaper or even faster to wait for a matching frame... Still its sad to see a frame in this condition... In a few years, it will be 30 years old, if it stays with me that time, I will have it repaired as a birthday present

  63. #1363
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    Just saw this on my ebay watch list. If this was from basically any other selling on earth, I'd call BS, but NOS unpainted racelite... I wouldn't pay for it but cool nonetheless.

    Vintage 1994/95 Keith Bontrager Mountain Bike Frame 21in XL 26" Steel Hardtail | eBay
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  64. #1364
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    Just saw this on my ebay watch list. If this was from basically any other selling on earth, I'd call BS, but NOS unpainted racelite... I wouldn't pay for it but cool nonetheless.

    Vintage 1994/95 Keith Bontrager Mountain Bike Frame 21in XL 26" Steel Hardtail | eBay
    From the listing:

    "Keith Bontrager factory unpainted original, 1994 or 1995. Note visible on top tube "c/s out of spec". No canti posts or bottle cage rivets installed."

    So it was built incorrectly, the factory discarded it before bothering to finish it.... and now Pro's Closet wants $800 for it? I think there's another thread where this would fit.
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  65. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    From the listing:

    "Keith Bontrager factory unpainted original, 1994 or 1995. Note visible on top tube "c/s out of spec". No canti posts or bottle cage rivets installed."

    So it was built incorrectly, the factory discarded it before bothering to finish it.... and now Pro's Closet wants $800 for it? I think there's another thread where this would fit.
    Glad someone said it.
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  66. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    Glad someone said it.
    For the record, i wasn't intending to give @jestep a hard time. If nothing else, it's neat to be able to see all the welds and heat-affected areas, knowing how much consideration was given to them during the design of these frames.
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  67. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    For the record, i wasn't intending to give @jestep a hard time. If nothing else, it's neat to be able to see all the welds and heat-affected areas, knowing how much consideration was given to them during the design of these frames.
    I totally missed that part of the description. Pretty funny though, 25 year old defective frame that was likely trashed at the time, $800... I love seeing it completely raw though, that's what caught my eye initially.

    In looking at it now, I'm trying to figure out what is going on at all with the canti posts, what's with the hollow ring? I looked at all my frames including an OR and a racelite and handful of privateers and can't put together what's going on there. The amount it sticks inward towards where the wheel will be looks way more than any of my frames. On that same image, the bottom bracket weld is drool worthy...
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  68. #1368
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Hey All,

    Bad times, good times, even more good times. The "sorriest looking OR on thread" on p. 12 came to sad end.

    All those years neglected in the bottom of some garden, canal, skip, wherever it was, came home to roost. After a week or two of wondering what that creak was, I did some investigating:



    Spiral crack all the way round the DT. That hole, I just poked it through with my finger. :-/ Sent it to a framebuilder friend for a possible rescue/ DT replacement. He was unenthusiastic, but wanted to do his best as he has soft spot for old Bontys. But the seat stays were rusted through as well apparently, so wall hanger at best, and not a very pretty one at that!

    I moaned on STW, and asked if someone had a donor frame for a hack bike that I could bolt all the bits to and started getting offers from "take this thing off me" to "yours for £50 if you can pick it up from x ". One offer was of a Raleigh Randonneur F&F if I could scoop it up. Didn't know much about the frames, but went a googlin'. Different sort of bike, would need a bunch of bits to build it up, but was too good to turn down. He'd rescued it from being thrown out when a guy was upgrading to a Ti frame. Too big for him, but he held onto it for 7 years, waiting for someone correctly-heighted to turn up who would ride it and appreciate it. I bloody do! So smooooth. I ride it 6 days out of 7, but everytime I get on it, it's a joy how smooth it is. Love it.



    A year later, we're back to Bonty's: Tuesday night trail ride, a riding buddy said he'd just been offered an old Bontrager frame by a mate wanting to offload. No great use for it himself, but he said he knew someone who might...



    It's definitely in better nick than the not-so-trusty-rusty OR! It's been powder coated and re-stickered, so no reliable clues from the decals. Riding buddy's mate reckoned pre-Trek Race? But from some reading here, 1 1/8 headtube, no chainstay gussets and "functional" welding, means maybe Virginia Privateer? What do we think?






  69. #1369
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    If it has a 1 1/8 headtube it would be a 98 or 99 privateer. Pre trek would have 2 piece seat stays as well. But still a great frame.
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  70. #1370
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    Yep, the wishbone shape of the seat stays is definitely a Privateer. The 1 1/8 head tube makes it the last year mde. Got to be a '98 Privateer. Made in Waterloo, WI.

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    Cheers guys! Don't know whether to build it up rigid or throw some suss forks on it. I've got some 2010 Reba Teams that would space down to 80mm and probably not be too far off A2C? What was the Indy XC 63mm? 425mm ish? If I do that I'm going disc at front and wondering about getting a tab brazed on the back.

    Or I can go light and rigid and keep it simple. get some big slicks maybe. Annoying the P2s I had for the ORs won't fit. I'll have to keep my eyes open on the classifieds and the ''bay for some nice 425mm steel forks P2s or Cromotos.

    Pretty jazzed that I've got a Privateer. First bike that turned me onto skinny steel when I read about it in the mags.

  72. #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrapier View Post
    Cheers guys! Don't know whether to build it up rigid or throw some suss forks on it. I've got some 2010 Reba Teams that would space down to 80mm and probably not be too far off A2C? What was the Indy XC 63mm? 425mm ish? If I do that I'm going disc at front and wondering about getting a tab brazed on the back.

    Or I can go light and rigid and keep it simple. get some big slicks maybe. Annoying the P2s I had for the ORs won't fit. I'll have to keep my eyes open on the classifieds and the ''bay for some nice 425mm steel forks P2s or Cromotos.

    Pretty jazzed that I've got a Privateer. First bike that turned me onto skinny steel when I read about it in the mags.
    The Indy's were actually really short, like 405 - 410mm. But, you shouldn't have any problem in the 420 - 430 range. I believe the 98 SID's that I have are around 430mm and they work great. I had a 80mm Marz on one of my frames a while back and at ~450mm height, it was negatively affecting the geometry IMO.

    Double check the Reba's height. If I remember correctly the 80mm 2000+ SID's and Rebas are more like 450mm. Not unusable but not ideal IMO.

    The good thing about the 1 1/8" privateers is that you can actually find forks for them, I'm about to sell one or two of my Bontrager frames because 1" forks are getting impossible to find. But, I see first generation 1 1/8" SID's on ebay fairly frequently, they'll be the SID blue with no disc tabs.

    Example, I think they're asking too much for it, but this is the SID you want if you want to keep an eye out for a deal: Rock Shox SID 1996, first model, rare vintage parts | eBay

    Other options are late 90's marz like the Z1 or Z2. I can't remember the model but there were some decent Manitous as well. There's a number of steel rigid forks that should work well also.
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  73. #1373
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    Kona P2 at 410mm. Rigid.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  74. #1374
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    410 is good for the Privateer you reckon colker? I've got a Kona P2 in 410mm that was on the OR. 1" steerer though. Might be the simplest way forward just to get some headtube shims and use that. Wouldn't need a new headset either.

    All working out nicely. This build will need to be cheap. Cheap or "later". I went on pinkbike to look for forks yesterday and got distracted. I'm picking up a new (s/h) bike on Friday.
    Last edited by nedrapier; 09-29-2017 at 05:02 AM.

  75. #1375
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    I've got a couple on Bontragers built up and finally meased the forks. 410mm is probably amout right fir a rigid fork.

    I have a 2000 Rock Shox SID (~440mm) and a 2003 Marzocchi Marathon (~470mm) on my bikes. The SID is perfect. The Marathon is too long and the bike handles less well. Going down to 410mm is probably pretty close to where the SID rides on the trail.

  76. #1376
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    Official Bontrager Thread-img_1491.jpg

    1996 Comp. I bought it new back then and have really kept it original.

  77. #1377
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    Circa '91....

    So I graduated college and decided to take the year "off" to mountain bike upstate NY/VT. Soon after, cracked a down tube on my Klein Attitude and needed a new bike.

    Found myself for a moment way out on Long Island. Hit a local bike shop. Got directed to a Bontrager Race OR. Didn't know anything about the bike, but it seemed right. Today, bike purchases are a bit more researched. Anyhow, had some questions about the geo and the like. Shop owner suggested we call Santa Cruz for answers. I took the phone. The guy in SC said, "hold on, Keith is walking the floor now". Keith got on. We talked for half an hour about the bike...

    Needless to say, that bike was so awesome - fit me better than anything ridden before/after.

    Have had some good ones since then. Got rid of them all. Kept the Bontrager.

    Can't do single track with it anymore. But I put some love back into it recently to make it a gravel grinder. And it remains, not surprisingly, so awesome to mash on...

    Still have all the original bits, but as a single speed, 650B conversion, it gets a spot in my weekly rotation. Highly recommended.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official Bontrager Thread-bonty-bike.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-bonty-front-fork.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-bonty-cog.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-bonty-rear-break-2.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-bonty-rear-brake-1.jpg  


  78. #1378
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    Dreamy!

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  79. #1379
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    Nice!!

    How does it handle with the 650b wheels? I have a spare bonty frame, this might be an option...

  80. #1380
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    What´s that doodle on the rear brake studs? an adapter? Bontragers are so right.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  81. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    What´s that doodle on the rear brake studs? an adapter? Bontragers are so right.
    Adapter for 650B wheels so the brakes match up with the rims.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

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    I think its a really good setup. Really good... one that I look forward to riding. And I'm not a gravel/cross rider. However, I'm on a mid-travel 27.5 trail bike most days, which has full-suspension handling, so any rigid is going to feel quick... I ended up on 650x43s. Very light and lively. Tons of clearence. I might try some 700c.... Ore maybe 29ers.... :0

    Btw, my stem is pretty stout. I think a 45. A longer stem would keep it even quicker; but its right where I want it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official Bontrager Thread-bonty-rubbera.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-bonty-cranksa.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-bonty-rrtirea.jpg  


  83. #1383
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    Its a BMX brake adaptor.

    ELEVN RACING Components | Brake Adaptators

    The Paul's weren't getter there on their own...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  84. #1384
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    Have a build question for all y'all. Sorry in advance for the lengthy post...

    I have a 96 or 97 race lite I have reincarnated many times. This year I got a modern mtb and haven't put my finger on the next incarnation for the bontrager. I set it up SS and had a free 100mm fork idea/build fall through....well I had it built with the 75mm atom bomb SS but that didn't prove to be something I found useful. Recently the idea of a mixed use/gravel/monster cross hit me and I think this pairs with my FS trail bike well.

    Anyway....this is the intent for the new build. I just recently put drop bars and 415mm rigid Carver fork on and they feel great. The only thing that is weird is that I wound up with a stack of spacers (1-2") to put the bar in the "right" place.

    Finally to my question after my rambling....would running a 96er bring the front end up in a useful way to remove some spacers or slacken the steering enough to be a negative? Anyone done it? Other options I've considered: leave it be as 26" road/dirt tourer with lots of spacers, make it a 96er and remove some spacers, convert both wheels to 700c....

    FYI.....I need excuses to build wheels....

    What do you all think?

  85. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspagat View Post
    Its a BMX brake adaptor.

    ELEVN RACING Components | Brake Adaptators

    The Paul's weren't getter there on their own...
    Thanks.
    ( btw, i believe longer stems slow down the steering. They pair well w/ 71degr head angles.)
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  86. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex-henson View Post
    Have a build question for all y'all. Sorry in advance for the lengthy post...

    I have a 96 or 97 race lite I have reincarnated many times. This year I got a modern mtb and haven't put my finger on the next incarnation for the bontrager. I set it up SS and had a free 100mm fork idea/build fall through....well I had it built with the 75mm atom bomb SS but that didn't prove to be something I found useful. Recently the idea of a mixed use/gravel/monster cross hit me and I think this pairs with my FS trail bike well.

    Anyway....this is the intent for the new build. I just recently put drop bars and 415mm rigid Carver fork on and they feel great. The only thing that is weird is that I wound up with a stack of spacers (1-2") to put the bar in the "right" place.

    Finally to my question after my rambling....would running a 96er bring the front end up in a useful way to remove some spacers or slacken the steering enough to be a negative? Anyone done it? Other options I've considered: leave it be as 26" road/dirt tourer with lots of spacers, make it a 96er and remove some spacers, convert both wheels to 700c....

    FYI.....I need excuses to build wheels....

    What do you all think?
    I think changing the wheel up front will affect the bike way more than just raising your hbar. You may end up liking it ... or not.
    Otoh there is nothing wrong w/ spacers.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

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    Uh ya sorry too long explanation of my actually short question! Story of my life...

    I know it will change it more than just raising bar - I am curious: has anyone done it and how did it change handling?

  88. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex-henson View Post
    Uh ya sorry too long explanation of my actually short question! Story of my life...

    I know it will change it more than just raising bar - I am curious: has anyone done it and how did it change handling?
    Do you know what the total height of that fork / wheel would be. That's the deciding factor IMO. I had a longer fork on one of mine for a while and I couldn't stand how lifeless it made the bike feel. Add that to increased rotational weight of a 29" front wheel and it could compound it. If you're adding spacers above the headtube, you aren't changing the geometry. You add height below the headtube and that's when the actual feel of the bike changes.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  89. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    Do you know what the total height of that fork / wheel would be. That's the deciding factor IMO. I had a longer fork on one of mine for a while and I couldn't stand how lifeless it made the bike feel. Add that to increased rotational weight of a 29" front wheel and it could compound it. If you're adding spacers above the headtube, you aren't changing the geometry. You add height below the headtube and that's when the actual feel of the bike changes.
    Not sure exactly how much higher but I estimate approximately 1.25". Would be similar to putting 440-450a2c fork I *think*.

  90. #1390
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    FYI, if you want to run 650B on a bike like this without adapters, the CaneCreek Direct Curve 5 is your huckleberry. Use them with a short pull brake lever with the pads up so high in the slots - works great and clean.

    Untitled by Mr. P, on Flickr

    Untitled by Mr. P, on Flickr

  91. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatchanceti View Post
    FYI, if you want to run 650B on a bike like this without adapters, the CaneCreek Direct Curve 5 is your huckleberry. Use them with a short pull brake lever with the pads up so high in the slots - works great and clean.
    I don't know about taking advice from someone riding without a downtube.
    Those CCs must have high slots. Are they confirmed to work on this frame? The Paul's did not give enough power without the adaptor, although the adaptors work fine, and are available 1st hand. The CCs ain't easy to come by. Good to know though...

  92. #1392
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    The slots are super long. Look at the top pic (rear wheeel). I wasn't even close to the top of the mounting slot. Seems like more than enough to work with any 26er like my Slingshot.

    Yes, they are a bit hard to find now. It took me about two months to find my 2nd one for the above build.

  93. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex-henson View Post
    I know it will change it more than just raising bar - I am curious: has anyone done it and how did it change handling?
    I'm running a 80mm Marzocchi Marathon on a Race Lite. The fork raises the front end too much IMO. It's most noticeable on climbs. To me a Bontrager is one of the best climbingbikes ever made. With the long fork it is not. The bike tends to wander, and keeoing it on trail on steep singleteack climbs is hard. It's also less fun on tight twisty single track. Its not a bad handling bike, but not a great handling one.

  94. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    I'm running a 80mm Marzocchi Marathon on a Race Lite. The fork raises the front end too much IMO. It's most noticeable on climbs. To me a Bontrager is one of the best climbingbikes ever made. With the long fork it is not. The bike tends to wander, and keeoing it on trail on steep singleteack climbs is hard. It's also less fun on tight twisty single track. Its not a bad handling bike, but not a great handling one.
    I felt the same way with a 80mm MX comp. If you haven't ridden these a lot, one might not realize how much it changes the feel.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

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    So, I just picked up a titanium “bontrager” from an older gentleman for what I believe was a good deal. It has/had full XTR (except wheels). What I am discovering is the frame although has Bontrager OR stickers it has Sandvik Drop outs and the SN starts with DBR. Now I know sandvik made bikes for DBR but I’m not sure why this bike is stickers as a Bontrager. Just was wondering if anyone knew any history if DBR made ti frames for Bontrager or if it just had Bontrager stickers. The guy said he bought from an garage sale in Charleston, WV.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official Bontrager Thread-b081a4e8-b444-434a-9ed4-77a70ebfa029.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-6c646700-9fe5-42d3-b8f5-b03d2ad3c104.jpg  

    Official Bontrager Thread-e7218bf0-2d38-40be-8be7-363967a08927.jpg  


  96. #1396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom8484 View Post
    So, I just picked up a titanium “bontrager” from an older gentleman for what I believe was a good deal. It has/had full XTR (except wheels). What I am discovering is the frame although has Bontrager OR stickers it has Sandvik Drop outs and the SN starts with DBR. Now I know sandvik mad bikes for DBR but I’m not sure why this bike is stickers as a Bontrager. Just was wondering if anyone knew any history if DBR made ti frames for Bontrager or if it just had Bontrager stickers. The guy said he bought from an garage sale in Charleston, WV.
    Can you post a picture? Does it have the ugly 2 piece welded seat tube? That's usually the dead givaway on ti lites. Sandvik made the tubing on ti lites though. Personally, I have no clue on the serial, one of the Bontrager gurus could probably answer based on that.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  97. #1397
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    The ti lites were made bu Sandvik.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom8484 View Post
    So, I just picked up a titanium “bontrager” from an older gentleman for what I believe was a good deal. It has/had full XTR (except wheels). What I am discovering is the frame although has Bontrager OR stickers it has Sandvik Drop outs and the SN starts with DBR. Now I know sandvik mad bikes for DBR but I’m not sure why this bike is stickers as a Bontrager. Just was wondering if anyone knew any history if DBR made ti frames for Bontrager or if it just had Bontrager stickers. The guy said he bought from an garage sale in Charleston, WV.

  98. #1398
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    I have added pics to my original post.

  99. #1399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom8484 View Post
    I have added pics to my original post.
    That's not a Ti Lite. The cable guides, brake stop, and head tube do not match a Bontrager.

    It likely is a Diamond Back with Bontrager decals.

  100. #1400
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    Wonder where he got those decals?

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