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  1. #1
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    Manitou suspension fork elastomers???

    I own four early-to-mid 1990s bikes with Manitou suspension forks (2, 3, 4 and Comp). I have been keeping them rolling with a collection of extra MCU elastomers I rounded up around 2000 when I realized there were going to be problems getting replacement parts. I have now run out of replacement elastomers and have even used aluminum spacers to substitute for some of the elastomer stack. Any ideas on a source of new elastomers? Elastomers are still very heavily used in industrial applications and I have even located a company that used to make them for mountain bike applications (http://www.kryptane.com/springs.htm). However, I haven't been able to find a vintage bike parts supplier that stocks them.

  2. #2
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    Order the elastomers from an industrial supplier

    Call the manufacturer and tell them you want to know who the local distributor is. They will give you a contact number. You may have to say you are calling from a company, in order to keep them interested.

  3. #3
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    Elastomers

    The forks are on ebay all the time and they sell pretty cheaply.
    Send the seller an email asking them to pull the elastomer stacks (an easy 30 second job on a Manitou) and tell you their condition.

    I believe there was also a spring conversion ????
    Wanted: Phil Wood front hub, one orphan WTB shifter mount.

  4. #4
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    Yeah, there were springs too. I have a set in my EFC. I keep looking for more but they don't seem to come up often.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  5. #5
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    speed springs , no damping though
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    The speed springs work well, but they do not replace the top out and bottom out bumpers (which are a different size than the other elastomers). I could try to put together an order through our company (my boss is cool about such things) if there is enough interest. I've got a Manitou 3 I am trying to get going. I managed to fabricate either the top out or bottom out bumpers (can't remember which right now) but the bumpers are too big in OD to work for the other set.

    Outside!
    Mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders are not the enemy. Bulldozers are the enemy.

  7. #7
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    They work well in the EFC because of the little damper in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  8. #8
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    Well, if you get a bunch made, I am sure they'd sell easily and frequently on ebay or mtbr.
    Wanted: Phil Wood front hub, one orphan WTB shifter mount.

  9. #9
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    Does anyone have an assembly drawing of a "Manitou 2" shock?

    Also, if someone has a photo of the elastomer bits that go in one of these early Manitou shocks, preferably with a ruler/scale for reference, I would be very grateful.?

    I'm an engineer by training, and a tinkerer by nature, with some experience with machining and laboratory molding of various silicone and urethane elastomer compounds. It might not be that difficult to make something up. It would also be helpful to get a sense of how "hard" these elastomer bushings are. Generally this property is measured on a Shore scale. The "D" scale is pretty hard, while the "A" scale would cover things like rubber bumpers, skateboard truck bushings, and skateboard/rollerblade wheels (75-95 ShoreA).

    Polyurethane rods, tubes and cylinders are also available from McMaster-Carr industrial supply in hardnesses from 40A to 75D and diameters from 1/4-3". If I knew where to start, with respect to length, diameter and hardness, it might be possible to put some of these old units back in action.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staggerwing
    Polyurethane rods, tubes and cylinders are also available from McMaster-Carr industrial supply in hardnesses from 40A to 75D and diameters from 1/4-3". If I knew where to start, with respect to length, diameter and hardness, it might be possible to put some of these old units back in action.
    I used McMaster Carr PN 87235K111 "Black Polyurethane Tubing 1" Od, 3/8" Id, 6" Length, 40A Durometer (Same as 87235K11)" to replace the bottom out bumpers for a Manitou 3. They work fine for that, but they will not work for the top out bumpers becuase the OD is too big to fit inside the stanchions. I was unable to find anything on McMaster Carr that was the right size to replace the elastomers that act as the actual suspension springs. I don't have any data on the Manitou 2. Even the data I have (at home) on the sizes of the Manitou 3 elastomers is +/- 0.050" or more due to the difficulty of accurately measuring partially decomposed elastomers.
    Mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders are not the enemy. Bulldozers are the enemy.

  11. #11
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    Outside:

    Thanks for the starting point. The durometer info is especially welcome. Have you ever seen or handled any original elastomer bumpers? Did the 40A tubing seem close?

    Since I have access to metal lathe, I can simply order up some smaller diameter rod stock, and bore a hole down the center, for the top bits. If I come up with something that works, I will post back.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staggerwing
    The durometer info is especially welcome. Have you ever seen or handled any original elastomer bumpers? Did the 40A tubing seem close?

    Since I have access to metal lathe, I can simply order up some smaller diameter rod stock, and bore a hole down the center, for the top bits. If I come up with something that works, I will post back.
    The last time I rebuilt the fork when the original elastomers were still goodt was back in 1996. Unfortunately at that time I rebuilt both mine and my wife's forks using white lithium grease (which apparently is a bad thing). When I pulled the forks apart last year after a few years hanging in the rafters in the garage some of the elastomers had melted and the others had turned into some sort of clay like substance. The 40A tubing seemed to feel perfect for the bottom out bumpers and I replaced the other elastomers with the Speed Springs. I still need to figure out a way to reduce the OD of the 40A tubing for the top out bumpers for my wife's forks. I have a lathe, but I just haven't gotten around to trying it yet. The shop is in a bit of flux right now. I assume I would just need to grind a really sharp cutting tool to cut the urethane.

    Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?

    Staggerwing as in Beech Staggerwing? A yellow one flew over my house about a year ago.
    Mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders are not the enemy. Bulldozers are the enemy.

  13. #13
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    There were two kinds of elastomers. The first was plain-jane elastomers, then I think in 1995 the Judy came out and was the first or one of the first to use micro-cellular elastomers, or MCU's, which had little nitrgoen bubbles in them, which reduced weight, and made them less temperature-sensitive. They also were supposed to have better damping qualities.
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  14. #14
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    Good stuff here guys.
    I'd love to get a Manitou 3 for my old Karakoram. Anyway, I have a Manitou 3 manual I can scan/copy/fax if anybody needs it.

    I also have some unused Manitou elastomers in my tool box. I'm not sure if they are from the old Manitou 3 or are from a FS Ti fork. I can take some pics / measurements if you'd like.

  15. #15
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    i have sourced some replacement elastomers and have been using/selling them for a while now (as in pic)

    if you guys can wait till tomorrow i can get you the original type measurements

    not sure of the originals durometer hardness , but the ones i get are equivalent to the yellow (in feel) and are 60shore hardness
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  16. #16
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    forgot to mention , the hole in the centre is larger then the originals , but they do work , and these are for the manitou 3/4

    the mani 1/2 were larger in external diameter , but the centre hole was the same as these (5mm)

    so they will fit in both , been using them in mani 1/2/3 and 4 for about a year

  17. #17
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    I have several new sets.

    http://geckocycles.com/some_old_stuff.htm
    For larger pictures.
    I also have a couple of crown assemblies 1.25" and 1.125" and 1" steerers
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  18. #18
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    If you can send me some sets of the elastomers, please PM me.

  19. #19
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    Manitou 2 elastomers

    Tested the Cane Creek Thudbuster elastomers for fit on a M2 bolt and they fit for I.D. and O.D. Three of these for each leg would do the job, the extra soft would be about right for a heavier rider. Since I did not test under compression don't know if they rub the sliders under compression, they are of a larger diameter than origionals.Tamer and others make replacement elastomers for their seat posts, another place to look - haven't tested any for fit.:idea

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by outside!

    Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?
    There's solid urethane and Micro-Cellular Urethane with nitrogen bubbles manufactured in to them.

    The MCUs (foam urethane) first appeared in the Tange Struts/Anti-Gravity forks in late 1993.


  21. #21
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    Source for Manitou springs

    This guy can supply M2, 3, 4 & EFC springs (not elastomers): http://wings-suspension.de/springs_e.html. He'll let you know up front that it'll take 4-6 wks for delivery. I've bought three or four sets from him in the past and they do eventually get here.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by plowak
    This guy can supply M2, 3, 4 & EFC springs (not elastomers): http://wings-suspension.de/springs_e.html. He'll let you know up front that it'll take 4-6 wks for delivery. I've bought three or four sets from him in the past and they do eventually get here.
    I tried for weeks to get something going with this guy and never had success. I probably have four sets of MI/MII's lying around here waiting for a viable option.

    Slimboy -- did you ever make that elastomer order?

  23. #23
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    joe steel = Slimboy -- did you ever make that elastomer order?

    will ba ordering more any time now , will mail you when they get here

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by outside!
    Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?

    Staggerwing as in Beech Staggerwing? A yellow one flew over my house about a year ago.

    Microcellular just means there are bubbles in the elastomer. Sometimes, if we didn't properly de-air our 2-part silicone mixes, we would end up with bubbles. Makes for a softer, more compliant part. Since a lot of the off the shelf 2-part urethane mixes only go down to 50 Shore A, it would be an easy way to make something softer, and do it with less urethane to boot. The trick is finding a way to reliably incorporate a certain quantity of air, with a uniform bubble size. Of course, calling it microcelluar makes it sound all sexy and high tech.

    Yes, you have the Staggerwing reference correct. I don't own one, but I've seen more than a few up close, and it is perhaps the most beautiful of the production, classic aircraft.

    Thanks to all of the other that have contributed to this thread. Based on the photo on the wings suspension site, if looks like 1" OD x 4" L compression springs might be a place to start. There are many such animals in the McMaster catalog. Just as a WAG, I would thing something in the 100lb/in stiffness range might be close. Might have to order up some bits and start playing.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIMBOY
    speed springs , no damping though
    Any chance you can measure the length and diameter of the springs in that pack.

    There is a strong chance they are just reselling industrial die springs. There is a Raymond color code for these things and blue corresponds to "medium load."

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by plowak
    Tested the Cane Creek Thudbuster elastomers for fit on a M2 bolt and they fit for I.D. and O.D. Three of these for each leg would do the job, the extra soft would be about right for a heavier rider. Since I did not test under compression don't know if they rub the sliders under compression, they are of a larger diameter than origionals.Tamer and others make replacement elastomers for their seat posts, another place to look - haven't tested any for fit.:idea
    Plowak,

    Would you please measure the OD of the Thudbuster elastomer and report back? I have an old RST shock that has mushy blobs that used to be elastomers. The thudbusters look like they might be a perfect replacement.

    BTW - I found this thread searching Google - this looks like a great site, so I joined today.

    Thanks,

    Ben

  27. #27
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    Thud Buster elastomers

    These elastomers measure 1" in diameter with a 5mm hole and are 1 1/4" long. The extra soft, the only one I have, feel about as soft as the Manitou 3/4 red elastomers but being wider
    are probably best suited for a heavier person.

  28. #28
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    Do you still have the elastomer ride kits? I need Answer Products part # 85-3504 for a Manitou Three. I also need one of the bottom rubber 3/4 x 1 part # 040613.

  29. #29
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    I am holding on to them until I here from a friend who I sold a fork too. Sorry

  30. #30
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    Manitou 2 Elastomer Measurements
    1.5 inch Length- Each shock comes standard with two of them or you can use one 3 inch size for each shock (the 3 inch size was sold in an adjustment kit from Manitou)
    0.75 inch Length - you need one for each shock
    outside diameter = 3/4 inch
    inside diameter = 7/32 inch

    I bought the Manitou 2 shocks in 1990 (estimated). The elastomers lasted about 14 years before melting. I installed another set of elastomers in 2004 that were purchased in 1990 but they only lasted about 3 years before melting. I suggest trying McMaster-Carr for new elastomers as it seems that the old ones have degraded.

  31. #31
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    Manitou 3's

    I just rehabed my Manitou 3's by gutting an old Rock Shok Quadra 21 and a RS "metro" city bike fork I got from LBS trash. I used the good MCU elastomers from the Quadra in 1 leg, and the coil spring from the RS Metro in the other. Works pretty good!

  32. #32
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    skateboard bushings?

    I went to the skate shop and bought some truck bushings. They fit inside of my old judy. I do not know if they will fit your fork, but for the price, it is worth it.
    RIP AL DAVIS

  33. #33
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    this worked for Mach 5

    Thanks for the McMaster-Carr tip. This part number worked perfectly - 8784K245. (5/8" diameter - 40A durometer).

    The only trick was cutting it. I had a friend cut it with a power miter saw (radial saw). Cutting with a knife doesn't work because the elastomer deforms and results in a non-square cut.

    I haven't used it on the trail yet, but it feels great riding on the street. I cut the pieces 15/16" and in hindsight, a full 1" would have been better. Also, it feels like these may be just a tad soft. I bought the 60A rod as well. If its not stiff enough, I may add a few of those.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing the info. This worked great!

  34. #34
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    Manitou Replacement Springs on eBay

    Just saw and purchased a set of springs for my Manitou 4:
    http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZthings4saleonline

    I have an old hardtail ('95 Rockhopper) that I'm converting to a singlespeed. Wasn't sure if I was going to put a rigid fork on it but stumbled on the replacement springs. Look forward to trying it out and see how my hardtail (which hasn't seen a trail in over 10 years) compares to my full suspension GT I-drive 5.

    The Manitou 4's are great shocks...would hate to throw away an awesome machined part from the bike that got me hooked on the sport.

  35. #35
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    Regarding the topout bumpers for an M3 or M4: I need to make one for my M4. Do you think a McMaster-Carr 9697K11 would work with a 7/8" outside diameter instead of a 1" outside diameter? Any idea how long the topout bumper needs to be? Thanks so much.

  36. #36
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    I found a source for 'urethane springs' in 60A Shore hardness. They are pretty close to the same ID and OD as the originals and can be ordered uncut or precut to any length. I'm going to order a bunch to test next week and will let you know how they work out. If they work out alright I'll let you know where I got them.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  37. #37
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    are these available?

    i have the third manitou fork ever made, or so ive been told. its on a klein.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT_guy
    Good stuff here guys.
    I'd love to get a Manitou 3 for my old Karakoram. Anyway, I have a Manitou 3 manual I can scan/copy/fax if anybody needs it.

    I also have some unused Manitou elastomers in my tool box. I'm not sure if they are from the old Manitou 3 or are from a FS Ti fork. I can take some pics / measurements if you'd like.
    GT Guy - I'd love to get a copy of that Manitou 3 manual. What do I need to do?

    Jason

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfkpdx
    GT Guy - I'd love to get a copy of that Manitou 3 manual. What do I need to do?

    Jason
    You can click the link below

    http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekatal...s/Manituo3.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  40. #40
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    I have 13 pink elastomers and 11 white plastic spacer disks out of an EFC. I replaced these with speed springs about 14 years ago and they have sat in a plastic bag since then. If anyone wants these send me a message, I am in Sacramento and will be going to Fresno this week.

  41. #41
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    Cleaning out old bottom out elastomers

    Hi,
    I have a Manitou EFC that has a bottom out elastomer that turned to glue !! Does anyone know of a good solvent to use to clean out this mess ( glue like ) without effecting the bonding agent that is used to assemble the lower leg tips? I plan to rebuild these forks with new bottom out elastomers and spring kits.
    Thanks, Rick

  42. #42
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    Manitou II Fork Warranty

    I bought these new when they first came out and kept EVERYTHING. Last week I noticed that my fork had lost quite a bit of travel so I pulled it apart. Sure enough the long red elastomer at the bottom was split. I started searching for parts and found the springs on Ebay. The guy says they work great but I'm not sure I'm excited about going to all spring.

    I searched the web and found this thread along with another one. They replaced this guy's forks.
    http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-14477-15-1.html

    I have the same warranty and receipt which states that they have a lifetime warranty on elastomers, seals and bushings. All I want are those parts from them.

    I called Tuesday and they gave me the runaround telling me the lifetime of a fork is 4 years and I should search ebay for springs or trade mine in for $150 off of a new R7 which means I'm still $250 out of pocket. I think I'm going to get all my paperwork together and hit them again. Warranties are legally binding documents and there is no mention of a 4 year time limit on their warranty.

    If they still give me crap, I'll inform them I'm going to start making some posts on some very large motorcycle sites as to their inability to deliver on their stated warranties.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMrider
    If they still give me crap, I'll inform them I'm going to start making some posts on some very large motorcycle sites as to their inability to deliver on their stated warranties.
    Nice first post. Threaten them with blackmail. That's a sure way to win over people.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Nice first post. Threaten them with blackmail. That's a sure way to win over people.
    Okay, maybe that's not the best avenue to go down. However, they should honor their warranty.

  45. #45
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    $150 for your old fork sounds pretty generous. There aren't many bike companies who have parts that old still around. Manitou has gone through a change of owners as well which doesn't usually bode well for honoring previous warranties.

  46. #46
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    My issue is this is still an old bike. I can buy a decent fork for less than $250 and not put any additional cash in Answer's pocket.

    I'd like to hear how the springs have worked out for people. I don't want to have a pogo stick feel to the front end. I mostly just use this bike to ride around with my kids and I still have the original, steel fork that came with the bike as a worst case fix.

    I have a Superlight for mountain biking so this isn't going to see that type abuse.

  47. #47
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    Springs

    I've got a Manitou 3 on a Merlin that the "rubbers" crapped the bed on. I replaced them with the yellow "Wings" steel springs off Ebay. Took about 10 minutes and got the Merlin back on the road, think I paid around 28.00 plus shipping. Picked up a set for my Mountaingoat that has a Manitou 1 and the guy waived the shipping when ordered with the 3's. Install is considerably more involved as the tubes have to be removed and torn down and the finsihed result did not turn out as well as the 3, but hey they're both on the road now and the milled parts look nice.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMrider
    Okay, maybe that's not the best avenue to go down. However, they should honor their warranty.
    They are honoring the warranty. Lifetime of the fork, not your lifetime. Same thing applies to just about about every product that has a lifetime warranty, or even a long warranty. Remember, it isn't an absolute guarantee against wear and tear, it is a warranty against manufacturer defects. Your springs wore out.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  49. #49
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    Holy crap. Now we know who has all the Manitou parts. I needed some bumpers and cut up a Judy bumper and drilled it. It worked out ok.

  50. #50
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    Manitou 4 springs

    Hey all,
    Just joined up and thought I'd post up. I have a Klein Rascal that originally came with a RockShox mag 20. That broke long ago, but I've had a Manitou 4 with the Englund Engineering dampening cartridge on it since. I just started riding again after a very long hiatus, and realized the MCU's were shot. Ordered a set of dual linear springs from ebay. I just installed them (just one side - the dampener takes up the other leg) tonight. I'll try them out tomorrow and report back.

    Dan N.

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