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  1. #1
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    Manitou suspension fork elastomers???

    I own four early-to-mid 1990s bikes with Manitou suspension forks (2, 3, 4 and Comp). I have been keeping them rolling with a collection of extra MCU elastomers I rounded up around 2000 when I realized there were going to be problems getting replacement parts. I have now run out of replacement elastomers and have even used aluminum spacers to substitute for some of the elastomer stack. Any ideas on a source of new elastomers? Elastomers are still very heavily used in industrial applications and I have even located a company that used to make them for mountain bike applications (http://www.kryptane.com/springs.htm). However, I haven't been able to find a vintage bike parts supplier that stocks them.

  2. #2
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    Order the elastomers from an industrial supplier

    Call the manufacturer and tell them you want to know who the local distributor is. They will give you a contact number. You may have to say you are calling from a company, in order to keep them interested.

  3. #3
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    Elastomers

    The forks are on ebay all the time and they sell pretty cheaply.
    Send the seller an email asking them to pull the elastomer stacks (an easy 30 second job on a Manitou) and tell you their condition.

    I believe there was also a spring conversion ????
    Wanted: Phil Wood front hub, one orphan WTB shifter mount.

  4. #4
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    Yeah, there were springs too. I have a set in my EFC. I keep looking for more but they don't seem to come up often.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  5. #5
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    speed springs , no damping though
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    The speed springs work well, but they do not replace the top out and bottom out bumpers (which are a different size than the other elastomers). I could try to put together an order through our company (my boss is cool about such things) if there is enough interest. I've got a Manitou 3 I am trying to get going. I managed to fabricate either the top out or bottom out bumpers (can't remember which right now) but the bumpers are too big in OD to work for the other set.

    Outside!
    Mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders are not the enemy. Bulldozers are the enemy.

  7. #7
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    They work well in the EFC because of the little damper in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  8. #8
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    Well, if you get a bunch made, I am sure they'd sell easily and frequently on ebay or mtbr.
    Wanted: Phil Wood front hub, one orphan WTB shifter mount.

  9. #9
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    Does anyone have an assembly drawing of a "Manitou 2" shock?

    Also, if someone has a photo of the elastomer bits that go in one of these early Manitou shocks, preferably with a ruler/scale for reference, I would be very grateful.?

    I'm an engineer by training, and a tinkerer by nature, with some experience with machining and laboratory molding of various silicone and urethane elastomer compounds. It might not be that difficult to make something up. It would also be helpful to get a sense of how "hard" these elastomer bushings are. Generally this property is measured on a Shore scale. The "D" scale is pretty hard, while the "A" scale would cover things like rubber bumpers, skateboard truck bushings, and skateboard/rollerblade wheels (75-95 ShoreA).

    Polyurethane rods, tubes and cylinders are also available from McMaster-Carr industrial supply in hardnesses from 40A to 75D and diameters from 1/4-3". If I knew where to start, with respect to length, diameter and hardness, it might be possible to put some of these old units back in action.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staggerwing
    Polyurethane rods, tubes and cylinders are also available from McMaster-Carr industrial supply in hardnesses from 40A to 75D and diameters from 1/4-3". If I knew where to start, with respect to length, diameter and hardness, it might be possible to put some of these old units back in action.
    I used McMaster Carr PN 87235K111 "Black Polyurethane Tubing 1" Od, 3/8" Id, 6" Length, 40A Durometer (Same as 87235K11)" to replace the bottom out bumpers for a Manitou 3. They work fine for that, but they will not work for the top out bumpers becuase the OD is too big to fit inside the stanchions. I was unable to find anything on McMaster Carr that was the right size to replace the elastomers that act as the actual suspension springs. I don't have any data on the Manitou 2. Even the data I have (at home) on the sizes of the Manitou 3 elastomers is +/- 0.050" or more due to the difficulty of accurately measuring partially decomposed elastomers.
    Mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders are not the enemy. Bulldozers are the enemy.

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    Outside:

    Thanks for the starting point. The durometer info is especially welcome. Have you ever seen or handled any original elastomer bumpers? Did the 40A tubing seem close?

    Since I have access to metal lathe, I can simply order up some smaller diameter rod stock, and bore a hole down the center, for the top bits. If I come up with something that works, I will post back.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staggerwing
    The durometer info is especially welcome. Have you ever seen or handled any original elastomer bumpers? Did the 40A tubing seem close?

    Since I have access to metal lathe, I can simply order up some smaller diameter rod stock, and bore a hole down the center, for the top bits. If I come up with something that works, I will post back.
    The last time I rebuilt the fork when the original elastomers were still goodt was back in 1996. Unfortunately at that time I rebuilt both mine and my wife's forks using white lithium grease (which apparently is a bad thing). When I pulled the forks apart last year after a few years hanging in the rafters in the garage some of the elastomers had melted and the others had turned into some sort of clay like substance. The 40A tubing seemed to feel perfect for the bottom out bumpers and I replaced the other elastomers with the Speed Springs. I still need to figure out a way to reduce the OD of the 40A tubing for the top out bumpers for my wife's forks. I have a lathe, but I just haven't gotten around to trying it yet. The shop is in a bit of flux right now. I assume I would just need to grind a really sharp cutting tool to cut the urethane.

    Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?

    Staggerwing as in Beech Staggerwing? A yellow one flew over my house about a year ago.
    Mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders are not the enemy. Bulldozers are the enemy.

  13. #13
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    There were two kinds of elastomers. The first was plain-jane elastomers, then I think in 1995 the Judy came out and was the first or one of the first to use micro-cellular elastomers, or MCU's, which had little nitrgoen bubbles in them, which reduced weight, and made them less temperature-sensitive. They also were supposed to have better damping qualities.
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  14. #14
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    Good stuff here guys.
    I'd love to get a Manitou 3 for my old Karakoram. Anyway, I have a Manitou 3 manual I can scan/copy/fax if anybody needs it.

    I also have some unused Manitou elastomers in my tool box. I'm not sure if they are from the old Manitou 3 or are from a FS Ti fork. I can take some pics / measurements if you'd like.

  15. #15
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    i have sourced some replacement elastomers and have been using/selling them for a while now (as in pic)

    if you guys can wait till tomorrow i can get you the original type measurements

    not sure of the originals durometer hardness , but the ones i get are equivalent to the yellow (in feel) and are 60shore hardness
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  16. #16
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    forgot to mention , the hole in the centre is larger then the originals , but they do work , and these are for the manitou 3/4

    the mani 1/2 were larger in external diameter , but the centre hole was the same as these (5mm)

    so they will fit in both , been using them in mani 1/2/3 and 4 for about a year

  17. #17
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    I have several new sets.

    http://geckocycles.com/some_old_stuff.htm
    For larger pictures.
    I also have a couple of crown assemblies 1.25" and 1.125" and 1" steerers
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  18. #18
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    If you can send me some sets of the elastomers, please PM me.

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    Manitou 2 elastomers

    Tested the Cane Creek Thudbuster elastomers for fit on a M2 bolt and they fit for I.D. and O.D. Three of these for each leg would do the job, the extra soft would be about right for a heavier rider. Since I did not test under compression don't know if they rub the sliders under compression, they are of a larger diameter than origionals.Tamer and others make replacement elastomers for their seat posts, another place to look - haven't tested any for fit.:idea

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by outside!

    Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?
    There's solid urethane and Micro-Cellular Urethane with nitrogen bubbles manufactured in to them.

    The MCUs (foam urethane) first appeared in the Tange Struts/Anti-Gravity forks in late 1993.


  21. #21
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    Source for Manitou springs

    This guy can supply M2, 3, 4 & EFC springs (not elastomers): http://wings-suspension.de/springs_e.html. He'll let you know up front that it'll take 4-6 wks for delivery. I've bought three or four sets from him in the past and they do eventually get here.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by plowak
    This guy can supply M2, 3, 4 & EFC springs (not elastomers): http://wings-suspension.de/springs_e.html. He'll let you know up front that it'll take 4-6 wks for delivery. I've bought three or four sets from him in the past and they do eventually get here.
    I tried for weeks to get something going with this guy and never had success. I probably have four sets of MI/MII's lying around here waiting for a viable option.

    Slimboy -- did you ever make that elastomer order?

  23. #23
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    joe steel = Slimboy -- did you ever make that elastomer order?

    will ba ordering more any time now , will mail you when they get here

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by outside!
    Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?

    Staggerwing as in Beech Staggerwing? A yellow one flew over my house about a year ago.

    Microcellular just means there are bubbles in the elastomer. Sometimes, if we didn't properly de-air our 2-part silicone mixes, we would end up with bubbles. Makes for a softer, more compliant part. Since a lot of the off the shelf 2-part urethane mixes only go down to 50 Shore A, it would be an easy way to make something softer, and do it with less urethane to boot. The trick is finding a way to reliably incorporate a certain quantity of air, with a uniform bubble size. Of course, calling it microcelluar makes it sound all sexy and high tech.

    Yes, you have the Staggerwing reference correct. I don't own one, but I've seen more than a few up close, and it is perhaps the most beautiful of the production, classic aircraft.

    Thanks to all of the other that have contributed to this thread. Based on the photo on the wings suspension site, if looks like 1" OD x 4" L compression springs might be a place to start. There are many such animals in the McMaster catalog. Just as a WAG, I would thing something in the 100lb/in stiffness range might be close. Might have to order up some bits and start playing.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIMBOY
    speed springs , no damping though
    Any chance you can measure the length and diameter of the springs in that pack.

    There is a strong chance they are just reselling industrial die springs. There is a Raymond color code for these things and blue corresponds to "medium load."

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by plowak
    Tested the Cane Creek Thudbuster elastomers for fit on a M2 bolt and they fit for I.D. and O.D. Three of these for each leg would do the job, the extra soft would be about right for a heavier rider. Since I did not test under compression don't know if they rub the sliders under compression, they are of a larger diameter than origionals.Tamer and others make replacement elastomers for their seat posts, another place to look - haven't tested any for fit.:idea
    Plowak,

    Would you please measure the OD of the Thudbuster elastomer and report back? I have an old RST shock that has mushy blobs that used to be elastomers. The thudbusters look like they might be a perfect replacement.

    BTW - I found this thread searching Google - this looks like a great site, so I joined today.

    Thanks,

    Ben

  27. #27
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    Thud Buster elastomers

    These elastomers measure 1" in diameter with a 5mm hole and are 1 1/4" long. The extra soft, the only one I have, feel about as soft as the Manitou 3/4 red elastomers but being wider
    are probably best suited for a heavier person.

  28. #28
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    Do you still have the elastomer ride kits? I need Answer Products part # 85-3504 for a Manitou Three. I also need one of the bottom rubber 3/4 x 1 part # 040613.

  29. #29
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    I am holding on to them until I here from a friend who I sold a fork too. Sorry

  30. #30
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    Manitou 2 Elastomer Measurements
    1.5 inch Length- Each shock comes standard with two of them or you can use one 3 inch size for each shock (the 3 inch size was sold in an adjustment kit from Manitou)
    0.75 inch Length - you need one for each shock
    outside diameter = 3/4 inch
    inside diameter = 7/32 inch

    I bought the Manitou 2 shocks in 1990 (estimated). The elastomers lasted about 14 years before melting. I installed another set of elastomers in 2004 that were purchased in 1990 but they only lasted about 3 years before melting. I suggest trying McMaster-Carr for new elastomers as it seems that the old ones have degraded.

  31. #31
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    Manitou 3's

    I just rehabed my Manitou 3's by gutting an old Rock Shok Quadra 21 and a RS "metro" city bike fork I got from LBS trash. I used the good MCU elastomers from the Quadra in 1 leg, and the coil spring from the RS Metro in the other. Works pretty good!

  32. #32
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    skateboard bushings?

    I went to the skate shop and bought some truck bushings. They fit inside of my old judy. I do not know if they will fit your fork, but for the price, it is worth it.
    RIP AL DAVIS

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    this worked for Mach 5

    Thanks for the McMaster-Carr tip. This part number worked perfectly - 8784K245. (5/8" diameter - 40A durometer).

    The only trick was cutting it. I had a friend cut it with a power miter saw (radial saw). Cutting with a knife doesn't work because the elastomer deforms and results in a non-square cut.

    I haven't used it on the trail yet, but it feels great riding on the street. I cut the pieces 15/16" and in hindsight, a full 1" would have been better. Also, it feels like these may be just a tad soft. I bought the 60A rod as well. If its not stiff enough, I may add a few of those.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing the info. This worked great!

  34. #34
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    Manitou Replacement Springs on eBay

    Just saw and purchased a set of springs for my Manitou 4:
    http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZthings4saleonline

    I have an old hardtail ('95 Rockhopper) that I'm converting to a singlespeed. Wasn't sure if I was going to put a rigid fork on it but stumbled on the replacement springs. Look forward to trying it out and see how my hardtail (which hasn't seen a trail in over 10 years) compares to my full suspension GT I-drive 5.

    The Manitou 4's are great shocks...would hate to throw away an awesome machined part from the bike that got me hooked on the sport.

  35. #35
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    Regarding the topout bumpers for an M3 or M4: I need to make one for my M4. Do you think a McMaster-Carr 9697K11 would work with a 7/8" outside diameter instead of a 1" outside diameter? Any idea how long the topout bumper needs to be? Thanks so much.

  36. #36
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    I found a source for 'urethane springs' in 60A Shore hardness. They are pretty close to the same ID and OD as the originals and can be ordered uncut or precut to any length. I'm going to order a bunch to test next week and will let you know how they work out. If they work out alright I'll let you know where I got them.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  37. #37
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    are these available?

    i have the third manitou fork ever made, or so ive been told. its on a klein.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT_guy
    Good stuff here guys.
    I'd love to get a Manitou 3 for my old Karakoram. Anyway, I have a Manitou 3 manual I can scan/copy/fax if anybody needs it.

    I also have some unused Manitou elastomers in my tool box. I'm not sure if they are from the old Manitou 3 or are from a FS Ti fork. I can take some pics / measurements if you'd like.
    GT Guy - I'd love to get a copy of that Manitou 3 manual. What do I need to do?

    Jason

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfkpdx
    GT Guy - I'd love to get a copy of that Manitou 3 manual. What do I need to do?

    Jason
    You can click the link below

    http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekatal...s/Manituo3.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  40. #40
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    I have 13 pink elastomers and 11 white plastic spacer disks out of an EFC. I replaced these with speed springs about 14 years ago and they have sat in a plastic bag since then. If anyone wants these send me a message, I am in Sacramento and will be going to Fresno this week.

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    Cleaning out old bottom out elastomers

    Hi,
    I have a Manitou EFC that has a bottom out elastomer that turned to glue !! Does anyone know of a good solvent to use to clean out this mess ( glue like ) without effecting the bonding agent that is used to assemble the lower leg tips? I plan to rebuild these forks with new bottom out elastomers and spring kits.
    Thanks, Rick

  42. #42
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    Manitou II Fork Warranty

    I bought these new when they first came out and kept EVERYTHING. Last week I noticed that my fork had lost quite a bit of travel so I pulled it apart. Sure enough the long red elastomer at the bottom was split. I started searching for parts and found the springs on Ebay. The guy says they work great but I'm not sure I'm excited about going to all spring.

    I searched the web and found this thread along with another one. They replaced this guy's forks.
    http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-14477-15-1.html

    I have the same warranty and receipt which states that they have a lifetime warranty on elastomers, seals and bushings. All I want are those parts from them.

    I called Tuesday and they gave me the runaround telling me the lifetime of a fork is 4 years and I should search ebay for springs or trade mine in for $150 off of a new R7 which means I'm still $250 out of pocket. I think I'm going to get all my paperwork together and hit them again. Warranties are legally binding documents and there is no mention of a 4 year time limit on their warranty.

    If they still give me crap, I'll inform them I'm going to start making some posts on some very large motorcycle sites as to their inability to deliver on their stated warranties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMrider
    If they still give me crap, I'll inform them I'm going to start making some posts on some very large motorcycle sites as to their inability to deliver on their stated warranties.
    Nice first post. Threaten them with blackmail. That's a sure way to win over people.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Nice first post. Threaten them with blackmail. That's a sure way to win over people.
    Okay, maybe that's not the best avenue to go down. However, they should honor their warranty.

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    $150 for your old fork sounds pretty generous. There aren't many bike companies who have parts that old still around. Manitou has gone through a change of owners as well which doesn't usually bode well for honoring previous warranties.

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    My issue is this is still an old bike. I can buy a decent fork for less than $250 and not put any additional cash in Answer's pocket.

    I'd like to hear how the springs have worked out for people. I don't want to have a pogo stick feel to the front end. I mostly just use this bike to ride around with my kids and I still have the original, steel fork that came with the bike as a worst case fix.

    I have a Superlight for mountain biking so this isn't going to see that type abuse.

  47. #47
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    Springs

    I've got a Manitou 3 on a Merlin that the "rubbers" crapped the bed on. I replaced them with the yellow "Wings" steel springs off Ebay. Took about 10 minutes and got the Merlin back on the road, think I paid around 28.00 plus shipping. Picked up a set for my Mountaingoat that has a Manitou 1 and the guy waived the shipping when ordered with the 3's. Install is considerably more involved as the tubes have to be removed and torn down and the finsihed result did not turn out as well as the 3, but hey they're both on the road now and the milled parts look nice.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMrider
    Okay, maybe that's not the best avenue to go down. However, they should honor their warranty.
    They are honoring the warranty. Lifetime of the fork, not your lifetime. Same thing applies to just about about every product that has a lifetime warranty, or even a long warranty. Remember, it isn't an absolute guarantee against wear and tear, it is a warranty against manufacturer defects. Your springs wore out.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  49. #49
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    Holy crap. Now we know who has all the Manitou parts. I needed some bumpers and cut up a Judy bumper and drilled it. It worked out ok.

  50. #50
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    Manitou 4 springs

    Hey all,
    Just joined up and thought I'd post up. I have a Klein Rascal that originally came with a RockShox mag 20. That broke long ago, but I've had a Manitou 4 with the Englund Engineering dampening cartridge on it since. I just started riding again after a very long hiatus, and realized the MCU's were shot. Ordered a set of dual linear springs from ebay. I just installed them (just one side - the dampener takes up the other leg) tonight. I'll try them out tomorrow and report back.

    Dan N.

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    Dan--how did the dual linear springs work? I've got a Manitou 3 that I need to rebuild and was looking at those springs on the 'bay.

  52. #52
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    I also bought those springs recently and installed them on my M4. They work fine, but seem a bit stiff even though they are the soft version. From what I have read though, they soften up after use.

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    Might have to wait a few days for that report. The valve stem ripped out of the tube, and I can't seem to find any stores that have presta valved tubes open on Sunday.

    My very brief impression prior to loss of tire pressure? I have the firm springs, but since I'm just running one side they seemed a bit soft. (BTW, I weigh about 210lbs) I'll report back again soon.

  54. #54
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    Try Suspension Fork Parts.com.

    They sell Manitou replacement elastomers $40 (1 set) I think for a Manitou 4.

  55. #55
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    Well, sorry it took so long to get back to y'all. But on my shock, with the firm "dual linear" springs on one side only, and an Englund dampener on the other, the ride is a bit too soft for my 210 lbs frame. Sensitivity is great, but it will bottom out pretty easily. I'll try removing the Englund dampener and running both sets of springs and post back. Weather is kind of cruddy, so it might be a little bit.

    Can't wait for spring!

    DanN74

  56. #56
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    Some quick points I wanted to add here:
    The elastomers from suspensionforkparts.com work very well, and he ships fast and has reasonable prices. However, I suggest that if you weigh more than 175 and ride any kind of single track you should either get the "stiff" kit, or get the medium kit with some stiff spares to tweak the ride (he sells spare elastomer sets now in addition to full rebuild kits). The pure medium rebuild kit seems a bit soft for me on the trails, even with the preload all the down.
    Also, no one ever answered the question of whether anyone has found a good way to clean out the original elastomers when they turn to glue. Anyone? Bueller?

  57. #57
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    Does the McMaster-Carr 40A and 60A come with a hole in the middle? I need info on what to do. I have a Manitou 2.

    I know I need a rebound rubber which goes inside the top fork. Does anyone know how big this is?

    Also the bottom uses compression rubbers which are 2 at 1.5 inches and 1 at .75 correct?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMrider
    I bought these new when they first came out and kept EVERYTHING. Last week I noticed that my fork had lost quite a bit of travel so I pulled it apart. Sure enough the long red elastomer at the bottom was split. I started searching for parts and found the springs on Ebay. The guy says they work great but I'm not sure I'm excited about going to all spring.

    I searched the web and found this thread along with another one. They replaced this guy's forks.
    http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-14477-15-1.html

    I have the same warranty and receipt which states that they have a lifetime warranty on elastomers, seals and bushings. All I want are those parts from them.

    I called Tuesday and they gave me the runaround telling me the lifetime of a fork is 4 years and I should search ebay for springs or trade mine in for $150 off of a new R7 which means I'm still $250 out of pocket. I think I'm going to get all my paperwork together and hit them again. Warranties are legally binding documents and there is no mention of a 4 year time limit on their warranty.

    If they still give me crap, I'll inform them I'm going to start making some posts on some very large motorcycle sites as to their inability to deliver on their stated warranties.

    they'll give you $150 of an R7! ooohh I have 2 sets of 3's and an EFC, and a rear triangle fork, maybe i can trade them all in in!

  59. #59
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    Ditto on SuspensionForkParts.com - Most sets are at $35.
    My Stable:
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  60. #60
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    This reminds me, I have a dozen or so sets of NOS Manitou Fork elastomers and spring kits to sort thru still from ebay auctions I won in july.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  61. #61
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    OK...so I tore into my fork this weekend. I have to say that the Englund cartridge appears to be in working order. I'm going to lay out each leg side by side and try to figure out a spring combo that might work and let me keep the oil dampener. Why not, right?

    Anyone have any info on this Englund cartridge? Mine was installed by a shop years ago in Texas, and they didn't give me the instructions. An assembly diagram would sure be helpful.

  62. #62
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    Do an eBay search under cycling > wings springs, he's got a variety of packages/parts. Do both of your legs have springs? If so, are they the same size (if elastomers, are the stacks the same in both legs)?

  63. #63
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    I have the dual linear spring set. Thing is the dampener cartridge split the elastomer stack in a non-standard way. I'll just have to lay them out and measure everything side by side. Hopefully the spring length is compatible with the cartridge. If not I'll just have to put the original skewer back in and run without dampening. But I'm going to give a try first, just because it is a challenge. If I can get it working with quick metal springs and rebound control that would be awesome. I should have more time to work on it this week. I'll keep y'all posted. If I get it to work I'll try to take some pictures.
    Last edited by DanN74; 03-08-2009 at 07:04 PM.

  64. #64
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    Since we're on the subject, I was going through a Manitou 4 that I was planning on using and found that although the elastomers looked to be in usable condition, one of the upper bushings were missing. Is there a source for those or should I just look for a used "parts fork" to steal the bushing from. Other than that, the forks are in really good condition.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanN74
    Anyone have any info on this Englund cartridge? Mine was installed by a shop years ago in Texas, and they didn't give me the instructions. An assembly diagram would sure be helpful.
    Let me check my stash. I have a couple of those dampers (one in use right now on my Norco) so I may have some instructions around somewhere.

  66. #66
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    Let me check my stash. I might have one.

  67. #67
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    Bushings?

    Don't know what you're calling bushings, do you mean spacers? I've got two top end adjustment replacement kits - new. They include adjustment knobs and everything below that to the skewers (my term for the rods that the elastomers mount on). I'd sell those for $30 plus $5 for shipping. I would highly recommend ditching the elastomers and going for springs - available on eBay. If you want to stick with elastomers, someones got a replacement set of micro cellular elastomers, firm for heavy dudes, on eBay for 12.99 ( search cycling > elastomers) & they come with spacers. These MCU's are better than the originals, they won't harden over time or dissolve when they come into contact to the wrong kind of grease. I've setup a M4 with these before. I've got a few extra spacers you can have, if these are what you call bushings - send me an address.

  68. #68
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    Ohhh...bushings. You mean those nylon split rings that go at the top of the stantion tubes? I might have a couple.

  69. #69
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    Hi I'm also looking for some feedback on kits for a manitou 4.

    I heard that springs alone tend to transform the forks into pogo sticks so I'm not sure about that option yet.

    about the elastomers that plowak is talking about, I saw one kit that seems to be designed for proc, sx and TI forks. anybody knows if they work on a manitou 4 ? (that kit does not comes with spacers but it is a firm ride kit for 12.99).

    ->plowak : Do you have the reference of the kit you did put in your M4 ? (the one I found is 85-3592)

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by plowak
    Ohhh...bushings. You mean those nylon split rings that go at the top of the stantion tubes? I might have a couple.
    Yes, the white nylon spacer that goes under the wiper seal.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  71. #71
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    The kit on eBay I recognize and it's the same one I used - don't know about the kit number. I've used the Manitou 3, 4 & EFC forks all with springs and I don't notice any pogoing. I've also got a Manitou FS with springs in the back and that doesn't seem to pogo either. I'm sold on springs, they seem to be much more responsive

  72. #72
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    Send me an address and I'll send you at set of bushings (2).

  73. #73
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    Hey I just tore down my Manitou EFC fork and i'm thinking of getting the wings 2 stage kit. Thing is the wings kit does not include replacement elastomers for what Answer refers to stage 2+3 elastomers. These are at the bottom under the stantions. Are they just for bottoming out? Mine seem a bit hardened. What can I use for replacements? Anyone?
    Chris

    Quote Originally Posted by plowak
    The kit on eBay I recognize and it's the same one I used - don't know about the kit number. I've used the Manitou 3, 4 & EFC forks all with springs and I don't notice any pogoing. I've also got a Manitou FS with springs in the back and that doesn't seem to pogo either. I'm sold on springs, they seem to be much more responsive

  74. #74
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    I just added the "long travel kit" from suspensionforkparts.com (which is really just another elastomer on the skewer, although it's clear instead of black) and it transformed my rather squishy "medium" ride kit (also from sfp.com) into a really, really nice plushy ride.
    I therefore retract my former statement about getting the "firm" ride kit if you weigh over 175lbs...just get the medium kit and spend another $8 for the long travel kit. Not only does it seriously improve the fork's action, it also gives you another 1/2" of travel.

  75. #75
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    Ya know I don't think you have to be so fussy about yer bottom out elastomers, I think anything that is similarly springy and fits, like rubber, might do the trick. Remember, we're not dealing with first stage "O" rings on a moon rocket. What works...works! Let's see, doesn't that very bottom elastomer cover an oil port? The inside diameter of whatever you put on there might be important. As I remember, these bottom out elastomers are harder than the rebound elastomers. Ha ha, as I remember I used a section of vinyl tubing for something in the lower end one time. Have fun!

  76. #76
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    thanks plowak.

    I just made the order for the elastomers. hope they will install and run fine. I could not find any affordable springs and would still be worried about damping.

  77. #77
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    There's a set of red bumpers on e bay right now.
    I like turtles

  78. #78
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    On my M4 with the Englund dampener I gave in to a quick fix. I just ditched the dampener altogether and took the shock back to a stock configuration, except I have the "dual linear" springs (from ebay) on both sides. Finally got to put in some miles and my first impressions are positive. I had the firm kit, which was recommended as I weigh 205. Compared to my previous experience with the dampener the springs feel "livelier". So far I think they are great for medium and big hits, but they don't do much to attenuate smaller, high frequency bumps. This is just my first impression. I'll post back after some more miles. I don't think given my size I would go any lighter on the springs, though.

    Haven't given up on the Englund Engineering dampener. The spring stack length is different for it, but I may be able to solve that with more time. The weather was nice and I just wanted to get out there! I believe it would add some refinement to the springs.

    Short version: If you're having trouble finding elastomers, the springs work just fine.

    Dan

  79. #79
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    I did put the yellow (firm) elastomers originally designed for sx/ti forks in my M4 as plowak advised.

    These elastomers are a bit wider, but they install perfectly and ride perfectly as well. Hope they will also last long.

    Thanks plowak !


    I also want to warn people to always put the softer elastomers on top of the skewers : the previous owner of my forks did not and as a result, I had quite some trouble to clean up the messed up blue elastomers that got stuck in the bottom of the forks.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    $150 for your old fork sounds pretty generous. There aren't many bike companies who have parts that old still around. Manitou has gone through a change of owners as well which doesn't usually bode well for honoring previous warranties.
    Wow, that's a dumb concept. I have been Manitou since 1999. I just bought another for my new bike. Travis. I did it out of loyalty, but now I need elastomers for my old Manitou X-vert DC dual crown, and not having much luck. If a company buys out another, I think the dumbest concept is to not support the people that have the old forks out there. As a buyer, I want the same brand, but if Manitou for instance won't help me because they don't feel responsible for the older owners that they had no part in selling to, then maybe they might want to think about keeping brand loyalty by not only buying the company from the old owners, but buy their old loyal customers as well. If I can't get parts or the company doesn't want to stand behind me, there is always Manitou's biggest competitors, Marzocci, Rock Shock and others that would be glad to make me a sale and a new loyal customer to them. Don't make sense to me to snub off old fork sale owners when a company buys it out, because if they want to continue to sell, they'll have to keep winning new people over to buy their product to keep a float.., that's called new sales. That requires salesmen and trying to woo new people that have never bought Manitou into buying your product over the competition. Or, they could woo me to stay loyal by providing me support, then, they have repeat business in loyalty when I'm ready to buy a new fork, no salesman needed or any more money to convince me to buy again. I go with the company that stood by me. Granted, they are not making a sale now, but I would buy later. MY only reason I want to fix my Manitou X-vert 125mm DC is that Manitou doesn't make a dual and or TRIPLE crown fork that is under 180mm. If they did, I'd buy new. But if HB suspension aka Answer doesn't want to help me out, I go with the latest trend and buy Marzocci, Rock Shock, or Fox next time around. And I'm sure most would agree, once a bad taste in your mouth, you never go back to the old company unless there's no other alternative. But seeing there are several, I think that I wouldn't go back. I just emailed Manitou today to see if they can help me find the springs and elastomers or at least let me know where they purchased them from in 1999. If they don't want to help, I'll keep trying. If I'm not successful, I'll sell the fork for parts and go Marzocci. Everyone on here and Ridemonkey all have them. Nobody says Manitou is good anymore. I'm one of the few left that feel it's still a good shock. Maybe the shock isn't the answer, and customer support is. We'll find out eventually when I hear back. I'm currently stuck with a Manitou Travis Single 180mm that came on my Gary Fisher King Fisher 1 bike but I bought in addition a Travis Triple to put on it day one. I've been trying to unload the 180mm 1.5 steer tube on Ebay and the highest I had offered was $200. It's brand new! But Marzocci, Fox and Rock Shox are all selling higher. So should I stay with Manitou? Time will tell if they give me the suppliers info so I can get me some elastomers and a spring. If not, Manitou X-vert DC for sale, new original soft ride elastomers and spring inside, maintained every year, mint, best offer, will be on Ebay soon. I really don't want to walk away from Manitou but everyone else has. I'm waiting to see if they help me. If they do, I'll stay with 'em. I'd owe them that if they backed me up on a ten year old fork! Remember, I just bought a new triple. So I'm still loyal! Just on the fence if I have to buy another fork for my other bike rather than get a few elastomers and a spring to fix my current problem. Time will tell. Time will tell.
    Last edited by NO_BRAKES; 03-31-2009 at 12:16 AM.

  81. #81
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    Good tips!
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarr
    Good tips!
    What's good tips? The salesman concept? If that is what you mean, that's just typical common sense. A company's major goal is repeat business through customer brand loyalty. IF a company gets it, they do not have to waste customer profits on advertising and sales staff to gain new clients. They can dump it into research into producing a better product and get more profit margins as a result, as well as grow. The best form of advertising is word of mouth and branding. Take Jesus Christ. All word of mouth. Look at Kleenex. Hey give me a Kleenex. That's the optimum. Rather than give me a tissue. That's due to branding and advertising. Once a company has brand loyalty, the loyal owner will tell all his friends what a great product it is and they should buy it too. That is sales generated without advertising or any sales staff to do so. That is what a company wants. If they can get that to happen, they will be successful. As example, a buddy of mine bought my same bike and is loyal to Manitou because of me. I'm not one to say, Marzocci is the best fork, because I've never rode one. But I can speak for manitou. I think guys that abuse shocks are the ones that go on sites and bad mouth it. Kind of like the 15 year old that buys a super expensive bike, MAKE THAT HIS DAD buys an expensive bike and when he jumps it off a ten footer onto a paved parking lot and whines the company sux because they wouldn't honor the warranty. But Manitou did get back to me on the place to look for elastomers and springs, but I haven't had time to trace the lead yet. Too busy. I'll let you know as to the outcome. Least comes to least, I still have the original spring and soft ride kit elastomers, so I can still get the shock to last me but I don't like soft. Thus the reason I want stiff ride parts. I take it that's what you meant as to good tips?

    NO_BRAKES

  83. #83
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    no_brakes understands my issue. A good company would have honored the warranty like they did for the individual I posted about. I would have been more than happy to send them the fork to look at so they'd know it was not abused in any way, shape or form. It literally didn't have a scratch on it and was used only on road.

    I've got 5 off road motorcycles along with 9 mountain bikes in my garage. Between 3 boys and me, we go through a lot of gear and parts. I will not buy another Answer product unless it's the only option available. Handlebars, clothing, rider protection, mountain bike parts, etc. There's other companies out there that I can get parts from that will stand behind them.

    That said, I found http://suspensionforkparts.com/Home_Page.html before checking back here. I bought a set of the medium elastomers for my Manitou II, installed them and they work great.

    I have a Santa Cruz Superlight and upgraded it to disks a while back. Called Santa Cruz and the guy sent me hydraulic line mounts for the frame and I asked where I could BUY some. He was very helpful and sent them to me for free. It's nice that some people still realize that customers keep the doors open.

  84. #84
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    [QUOTE=IMrider]no_brakes understands my issue. A good company would have honored the warranty like they did for the individual I posted about.QUOTE]
    Well, I agree all companies should honor warranties. As to my fork, mine is now ten years old. I've taken very good care of it. I recently bought a bike that came with a manitou Travis single but because I demand dual crown and or as they call the travis, a TRIPLE, I went and bought the triple clamp on top of the bike that came with the single. My problem is, I can't unload it for any decent price. Nobody want's Manitou anymore. I can't believe so many people bad mouth them all of a sudden. I can understand Manitou no longer supporting a ten year old fork, but it would be nice if they had extra elastomers around or at least give me their suppliers info so I can at least try and find the replacements. At this point, another part inside broke and I glued it. The fork is on it's last leg, no pun intended, but I'm looking into another fork at this time on Ebay and yes, it's a manitou. At least Manitou is still affordable. Other manufacturers have gotten so way out of this world with astronomical prices. I can't buy a dual crown fork for under a thousand. That's nuts. I paid $500 for my Manitou dual crown X-vert. I'd love to be able to get a dual crown six inch or seven for that same price but those days are over. Only on Ebay. Which is where I'll get one eventually. A stance went the other day for like $235. IF the dumba-ss that sold it had just got back with me with better pics to show me the stantions were not damaged, I would have given him up to $300 for it. It was probably just the pics, but I'm not one to blow over a hundred on Ebay without sending me close up pics and this jerk-ass just wouldn't. So I let it go. But needless to say, I'm not spending a fortune on a fork so Manitou is my brand for now. Until someone like Marzocchi sells a dual for around $500 with six inches or more. I don't need downhill, I just need travel and a stiff ride kit. And for my X-vert, I just need the stiff ride yellow spring and the yellow elastomers.

    I did however since speaking on here put in the original soft ride kit that came with it and it rides nice. I'd like to send it back to Manitou to overhaul it, clean it, and put in new bottom outs and stuff but I'm sure they could care less. I even spoke to a guy on the phone there and he said he had a brand new X-vert that someone traded in but he wouldn't sell it to me. Well, for now, I'm looking into another frame and if so, I'll be able to use the single Travis that came with my bike and be done with it.

    Have a good one.
    Yes, I AM the 3 time winner of the photo caption contest with one MTB jersey and two vests to prove it!

  85. #85
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    I bought the Manitou II as a separate item after purchasing the bike and at the time it was outrageously expensive. I went with Answer because of their super high quality, billet machined brace and warranty and customer service. If 2 of the 4 reasons no longer exist then what's the draw over others? At the time, Rock Shox were leaking like crazy.

    My Superlight has a Fox 100RL and it's a really nice fork. Sure they're expensive but realistically, they're light years ahead of this old Answer fork and I've seen brand new one's at close to what I orignally paid for the Manitou.

    I'm getting the feeling that the reason people are bad mouthing Answer is partially due to customer service. Companies just don't care anymore after the sale.

    My wife and I took my kids 6 1/2, 9 and 11 1/2 to Moab over spring break and I took the old bike since I knew I wasn't going to ride anything wild and I didn't worry about it on the back of the truck. That old fork worked great soaking up most all of the bumps and drops I did with it. It's still a good fork.

  86. #86
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    I'm sorry if I didn't make myself better understood in this thread. What I meant earlier is I learned some things from this thread. I'll try a better choice of words in the future. That aside, I wonder if the problem some are reporting with Manitou is the result of their merge that happened a while back. Maybe that changed some things. (I don't know for sure...just a guess. )
    roccowt.
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  87. #87
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    Smile Manitou 2/3 elastomer substitute

    Great thread. I thought I would add my two bits ...

    I took my bike out today for the first ride since last summer. Over the winter the elastomer's "melted" and the forks were bottomed out. I was happy to find this thread and joined the group right away. It looks like the http://suspensionforkparts.com/Manitou.html is a good source to buy them, though I have not done this and have no idea of quality or fit.

    If you are willing and able to do some work of your own then McMaster-Carr is the way to go in my opinion. I looked at the McMaster products and thought I would post another alternative that I found on their site. If you buy the round bar you will have to drill the hole, not very difficult. If you have to drill the hole anyway, take a look at their square bar stock as well, 8781K911. The difference is that you can get the square stock in 20A and 30A durometer hardness. The round only goes down to 40A. The washers between my elastomer's measure 1.05" in diameter. A 3/4" square has a hypotenuse of 1.06". If you wanted to really soften a ride or just needed more flexibility in ride setup the 3/4" square will fit in your tubes.

    Don
    '93 Cannondale M800, Manitou 2

  88. #88
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    I got to call and see if spare parts can get me a anti-bob kit (lock out) for my 2000/01 Manitou SXR. I had it since 2002 and never used it. It feels light as a a feather compared to the Dart 3. Paid $69.00 for it back in the day. Alloy steerer & stanction tubes. Tubes not 32mm though. I think it's a good fork though.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckocycles
    http://geckocycles.com/some_old_stuff.htm
    For larger pictures.
    I also have a couple of crown assemblies 1.25" and 1.125" and 1" steerers
    I have a set of NOS red elastomers from a Manitou fork...I'm guessing they came out of a Mach V.

  90. #90
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    Just ordered Manitou 3 refresh kit medium and long travel medium. I ride pretty aggressively on some technical trails. I weigh about 172+/-. Should I get some firm elastomers in the set up? I'm looking for the fork to take some big hits but mostly to soak up the little bumps as best as it can handle. I currently ride with springs and not liking the lack of dampening and I do experience pogoing. Hopefully the refresh kit will solve my problems. How are you guys setting up the mixture of elastomers. Can anyone suggest a cleaner I can use for the sanctions? I'm experiencing some stickyness.

    Thanks guys...

  91. #91
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    Does anybody know where I can get a dust seal and retaining ring for a Manitou 4?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwbykrydr
    Great thread. I thought I would add my two bits ...

    I took my bike out today for the first ride since last summer. Over the winter the elastomer's "melted" and the forks were bottomed out. I was happy to find this thread and joined the group right away. It looks like the http://suspensionforkparts.com/Manitou.html is a good source to buy them, though I have not done this and have no idea of quality or fit.

    If you are willing and able to do some work of your own then McMaster-Carr is the way to go in my opinion. I looked at the McMaster products and thought I would post another alternative that I found on their site. If you buy the round bar you will have to drill the hole, not very difficult. If you have to drill the hole anyway, take a look at their square bar stock as well, 8781K911. The difference is that you can get the square stock in 20A and 30A durometer hardness. The round only goes down to 40A. The washers between my elastomer's measure 1.05" in diameter. A 3/4" square has a hypotenuse of 1.06". If you wanted to really soften a ride or just needed more flexibility in ride setup the 3/4" square will fit in your tubes.

    Don
    '93 Cannondale M800, Manitou 2
    It would be virtually impossible to drill that material.

    -Schmitty-

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwbykrydr
    It looks like the http://suspensionforkparts.com/Manitou.html is a good source to buy them, though I have not done this and have no idea of quality or fit.
    I also just ordered a " refresh kit " for my RS Judy XC from these folks .... super fast shipping and a great product .... they are of a urethane , but not of the cellular type .
    Last edited by SVG 99; 07-13-2009 at 09:33 PM.

  94. #94
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    To sum up:

    Elastomers are available at:
    suspensionforkparts.net
    http://suspensionforkparts.net/eshop...d&productId=42
    • Refresh kit: $45.00
    • Long travel kit (gives you an extra 1/2"): $13


    They also have Owner's manuals for Repair and maintenance:
    http://www.suspensionforkparts.net/manitou_manual.php



    Springs are available on ebay (look for mr_wings)
    http://myworld.ebay.com/mr_wings/

    Here is his non-ebay home page: http://wings-suspension.de/index.html
    • pair of coil springs: $30.95 + 4.95 shipping
    • Pair of dual coil springs (extra protection against bottoming) $37.95

    with 60mm (2.4") of travel, it doesn't sound like you need a long travel kit here.



    (more replacement parts here: http://www.bikepro.com/ad_copy/forks.html)


    I think I'm going the dual spring route...

  95. #95
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    manitou answer parts

    I am looking for retaining rings, dust seals and dust covers for an old (92-93) Manitou m-sport fork. I do not know whether parts from another year would also work. If anyone has these or knows where to find please let me know.

  96. #96
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    My BIL just gave me an old HOS Marin bicycle with a Manitou 3 on it. Has dials on top so it must be slightly newer than my 2. It seems to function just fine. Although he's quite a bit lighter than I am so it's a little too soft.

  97. #97
    RJT
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    springs or elastomers for Manitou 3?

    Great thread. I have a new (to me) Manitou 3 fork and I'm either going to buy the elastomers from suspensionforkparts.net or the springs from wings-suspension.de. I know this is covered to some extent in the prior posts, but if anyone (particularly anyone who has used both) has any thoughts on which is best for all around xc trail riding I'd appreciate it. I'm leaning toward the elastomers now due to the pogo comments. Thanks.

  98. #98
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    I have the original Doug Bradbury built Manitou forks, circa 1991. Mine elastomers melted and I was looking for spring replacements (cleaning the those things up was a pain). I tried to buy the Manitou 1 springs from eBay, but they are not correct.

    Can anyone help? Thanks.

    P.S. If anyone wants pictures let me know and I will post some to this thread.

  99. #99
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    Well I'm sorry guys for all this delay. The guy I sold this bike/fork too keeps putting me off so I have decided to get these parts to someone who really wants them. See post #17 for what I have.
    This was the bike/fork they fit.


    I also have Mach 5 SX damper rebuild kits. The bags were opened and I only have one set of instructions. There is not 2 complete kits here. I took inventory and this is a list of what I have:
    2 shaft foam wipers (040995) One is torn but I think it may still work. Could put a micro drop of super glue on it.
    2 Seal Glands (040931)
    2 O-Rings 3/4" x 1" (040932)
    2 Quad Ring Seals (040676) I think there should be 4 for 2 kits. 2 in inner leg and 2 in damper shaft as far as I can tell. I could be wrong, just going by exploded view.
    These above parts go in the Left inner leg (9041050) not included. LOL.

    The below parts go into the Damper Shaft (040938) not included either.
    1 Valve Pin (040685) Should be 2 for 2 complete kits. These are just metal pins and unless lost could be reused
    1 Detent Ball (040689) Should be 2 for 2 complete kits. These are just metal balls and unless lost could be reused
    6 O-Rings 1/4" x 3/8" (040690)
    2 Adjuster Rods (040936)
    7 Retainer Rings (040690) Looks like there are 3 extras of these.
    2 O-Rings 7/8" x 1" (040934)
    2 Pistons (040933)
    4 Spring Shims .005" (040980)
    2 Nylon Washers (040682)
    2 Clamp Shims (040982)
    2 End Caps (040930)
    2 O-Rings 15/16" x 1/16" (040673)
    2 Shaft Seal Wipers (040994)
    2 Adjuster Knobs (040937)
    2 O-Rings (040688)

    So basically there is 1 complete rebuild kit and almost another.
    All the O-Rings and wiper seals are in place in this picture.


    For a larger picture.
    http://www.geckocycles.com/images/ol...mper%20kit.jpg


    What I have as far as urethane's are: See post #17 for picts.
    1 firm ride kit for 96 SX/EFC part #85-3592 6 Yellow 50.5mm long x 19mm dia with 4.5mm through hole in the center with 4 plastic washers 24mm dia with 4.5 mm hole.

    1 Med ride kit with no label on it. Sorry no part number. 6 Red 50.5mm long x 19mm dia with 4.5mm through hole in the center with 4 plastic washers 24mm dia with 4.5 mm hole.

    2 soft ride kits for 96 SX/EFC part #85-3590 6 Blue 50.5mm long x 19mm dia with 4.5mm through hole in the center with 4 plastic washers 24mm dia with 4.5 mm hole.

    1 Soft Ride Kit for EFC. Part #85-3526 The bag is missing one staple on it. There is 9 light blue/green and 2 red dampers in it. 25mm long x 15.5 mm dia with 4.5 mm holes in them.

    4 used red urethane's. 28.5 mm long x 18.5 mm dia with 4.5 mm hole. Not sure what these were for or from.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.geckocycles.com[/SIGPIC]

    There is but one rule in life. "First one to the finish line wins!"
    VVA

  100. #100
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    Manitou elastomers

    Just picked up on this thread, have been trying to get my threes and fours back in action on a retro build (GT RTS-1). If any one can help/supply any of the following (I'm based in the UK if that helps):

    - Bushings (top and bottom) - someone did list that they had some in this thread.
    - Elastomers - rebound, damping and bottom out

    I've also seen the post with the damping rebuild kit for the EFC/Mach 5. Is this compatible with a three/four and if so, does anything need to be in the fork to start with, or can this be fitted retrospectively?

    Any other help with getting these forks to some working state would be gratefully received, as I've bought some speed springs and just need to get the rest of the bits.

    Cheers

    Ian

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