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  1. #1
    GMF
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    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)

    Hello VRC,

    I've been wanting to do this for quite a while, and I am optimistic I am finally going to be able to do it.

    Back in '95, I bought a beautiful Pearl White WTB Phoenix (standard edition, suspension corrected) as a high school graduation present from my parents. It was a truly wonderful bike built with a mix of XC-Pro, New Paradigm, and a rolling assortment of other accessories. It handled the Alaskan trails around my house beautifully in winter and summer for a couple years, and even carried me on an Alaska -> Oregon bike tour with 4 dutch guys when I transferred to an out of state university. Despite the increased mud and much more technical terrain, the bike was still awesome, although I was affectionately known as "endo king" for my propensity for going over the front (i'll blame the 140mm stem).

    I've had AMP forks, Judys, a Type II, and even a Noleen Crosslink on that bike. Scoff all you want, that crosslink was an awesome fork for my riding and I liked it a lot (so much so that i even had a local builder roll out the fork induced dents and move the cable stops back to better work with the fork). The frame was nicely repainted by my dad a sort of midnight blue, which I immediately dented up again. I guess in retrospect, that fork was a bad decision for this bike.

    ...
    Time passes and the Phoenix slowly fades from ride circulation for a variety of reasons. It has been waiting patiently in a series of garages or storage places for 7 or 8 years, coming out to play every once in a while.

    I now live in California again (and will for the foreseeable future), where the Phoenix will shine. My plan is to do a sort of nuevo-retro thing. I want to put a rollercam on the back and a nice quality period correct V-brake up front on a modern 80mm fork, putting as much of the xc-pro & new paradigm stuff back on that i can scrounge up. This is definitely going to be a rider and I hope to explore a lot of central coast trails on the resurrected Phoenix.

    So my first step is to contact Steve Potts who I spoke to back in 2007 about this frame, and who was willing to replace the jacked up front triangle then. Unfortunately, at the time my wallet wasn't so into the idea. Things are a little different now, and I e-mailed him on Tuesday, but have yet to hear back (is that typical?).

    I'm not really asking any questions, but just kind of sharing a bit of my excitement that I hope will be realized sometime in the not too distant future.

    -Damon

  2. #2
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    awesome.

  3. #3
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    Where in California are you?

    I restomod'ed my Phoenix and its easily the best bike I've ever ridden. Good luck on your resto!


    -eric-

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  4. #4
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    I want your type 2.....

    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  5. #5
    GMF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Where in California are you?
    I restomod'ed my Phoenix and its easily the best bike I've ever ridden. Good luck on your resto!
    I think I'm not too far from you. I'm in Monterey, CA.

    Rumpfy - that is a dead sexy bike. Clearly i'm biased, but i like that, a LOT. I could dig the disk on front, but i have a new paradigm hubset that is begging to be put on it (and honestly for around here, I am totally fine with rim brakes, and like the simplicity).

    Aemmer - Sorry, it be sold already. It is hopefully funding this pseudo-restoration.

    General question: Is Steve Potts usually good about the e-mail? I'm just wondering how long I should wait before I try to get in touch with him again... Maybe if i get deperate, i'll stalk him at NAHBS in Sacramento...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    General question: Is Steve Potts usually good about the e-mail? I'm just wondering how long I should wait before I try to get in touch with him again... Maybe if i get deperate, i'll stalk him at NAHBS in Sacramento...
    If you're not having luck contacting Steve, send an e-mail or call Mikes at Black Mountain Cycles: Black Mountain Cycles

    Mike deals with Steve very often and many of Steve's bikes go through him. He's a good contact for Potts repairs.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aemmer View Post

    Great pic T...makes me really chomp at the bit to get back on my bikes.


    Steve

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    I think resto-mods are great! Just updated my '96 Slingshot this fall. Signed myself and three boys up for the Iceman race in Traverse City and wanted to run the Sling.

    Had the local shop build a pair of NOS XTR hubs with Stan's 355s so I could go tubeless.
    Also went with a 1x9 XTR drivetrain. It's my favorite ride now. A lot of guys got a
    kick out of it at the race.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    I think I'm not too far from you. I'm in Monterey, CA.

    Rumpfy - that is a dead sexy bike. Clearly i'm biased, but i like that, a LOT. I could dig the disk on front, but i have a new paradigm hubset that is begging to be put on it (and honestly for around here, I am totally fine with rim brakes, and like the simplicity).

    Aemmer - Sorry, it be sold already. It is hopefully funding this pseudo-restoration.

    General question: Is Steve Potts usually good about the e-mail? I'm just wondering how long I should wait before I try to get in touch with him again... Maybe if i get deperate, i'll stalk him at NAHBS in Sacramento...
    Thanks man. Based on what you were staying you wanted to do, I think Aemmer's and my Phoeni lean more towards your goal. Others here have far more period correct Phoenix.

    That said, I think you might find Roller/Toggle Cam and V-Brake combo to be difficult to feel and perform the way it should. Its actually how I came to run disc brakes up front.

    Roller cams work best with cantilever specific brake levers (I'm running M900 XTR). I also wanted a good feeling/performing fork. An older fork that has a cantilever brake hanger like a Judy are..only ok feeling forks. A newer fork with brake mounts limits you to v-brakes...which won't pair up well with your RC's or your canti-brake levers.

    So for me I ended up with a road bike disc brake up front. The pull works perfect with cantilever brake levers. The feel and modulation is really similar front and back Plus it allows me to run a newer fork with disc and/or a disc only fork.

    At any rate, just my experience with it...might be an option for you or give you more options.

    And ya, I'm close just up the way in San Jose. A bunch of us locals here on the VRC have a Phoenix actually. No better bike out there.


    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    General question: Is Steve Potts usually good about the e-mail? I'm just wondering how long I should wait before I try to get in touch with him again... Maybe if i get deperate, i'll stalk him at NAHBS in Sacramento...
    It does take Steve awhile to get back to you sometimes and he is very busy with work so repairs can take a year or so for turn around- but it sound like you have a great project so it would definitely be worth the wait as long as you have something else to ride in the mean time.

    Did you live or ride in Corvallis, OR for a while?

  11. #11
    GMF
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    Thank you for all that experience based information, Rumpfy. I had a few ideas on how to address the different cable pulls front and back. The first and easiest idea was to use a set of older Avid sd2.0 canti levers (I think that is what they are). Not super high end, but work well and feel pretty nice. I've used them on canti's, Vs, and disks, and they work surprisingly well across all three (least satisfied with them matched to BB7 disks, but work great with some generic avid Vs on my commuter). Another costlier option was to see about buying mis-matched Paul's Love Levers, and just get the right pull on the right side. And the final thought was to play with some scrap aluminum sheet and see about making a V-friendly cam. That last option clearly has the highest chance of frustration/failure, but I'm not scared of a project...

    Do any of you know if C Cunningham is still making brakes? I get the gist that he is, but it seems like a one-off "maybe" kind of a thing... Probably out my budget anyway :-/

    Laffeaux, thanks for the suggestion, but I'm pretty keen on Potts doing it. If, for whatever reason that doesn't work out, I'll definitely look them up.

    993rs, I bet that sling is awesome. My cross/roadie bike is a slingshot, but one of the generic made in china ones - no cool cable+spring for me...

  12. #12
    GMF
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan lee View Post
    Did you live or ride in Corvallis, OR for a while?
    Good to know about Mr. Potts. I just need to be patient. I do have another mtb, my '03 Kona Dawg, which is totally different from the Phoenix, but still a lot of fun. It was just much better suited for the trails I was riding when I lived in Vancouver, Canada.

    Your Corvallis question is a little surprising. Yeah, I went to OSU in Corvallis between '97 and 2000 earning my mechanical engineering degree and enjoying the trails around there. So, uh... Why do you ask? :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    Your Corvallis question is a little surprising. Yeah, I went to OSU in Corvallis between '97 and 2000 earning my mechanical engineering degree and enjoying the trails around there. So, uh... Why do you ask? :-)
    Small world- we went on a couple of rides together. I was a mechanic at Cyclotopia- I don't remember if I had my Phoenix with me in Corvallis or not...I think I did. I remember a few conversations about your bike and the following of WTB/Steve/Charlie in AK. I may of been riding a Ritchey at that time......

    -Mark

  14. #14
    GMF
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan lee View Post
    Small world-
    Small world indeed! Cyclotopia was a very cool shop - i really liked the bikes and the vibe in there, still one of my favorites. I'm pretty sure you did have that phoenix there - let me test my notoriously poor memory: Foresty green, roller cam bosses (?) 140 rear dropout spacing, and i think 120 up front? Or am i just making sheeit up? Admitedly, I always felt like I was wasting your time whenever I was in there because I had no money - but I guess that is par for the course in a college town like Corvallis.

    Do you remember the guy who made all those killer B. bags? I still have one that i use every day.

    The Alaska WTB connection is an odd one, and definitely the only reason I own a Phoenix. Otherwise, I would probably be waxing on about a Fat Chance Buck Shaver. The shop that sold those were jerks, though. The guy who I bought my bike from, Rick Shaw, knew all sorts of old school bike people from Cali, and had some really cool Mantis and Ibis stuff, too.

    ... wow, the people you run into on the internet

    -Damon

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    Do you remember the guy who made all those killer B. bags? I still have one that i use every day.
    Lol- funny stuff.....I just walked in from the store.



    Chris Cole is his name- I don't think there is a nicer guy out there plus he is a complete genius. I've used my bag daily/weekly since 2000 without issue. Him and Sweat Pea started making those before anyone. He lives in Bend now and is making these absolutely amazing kinetic sculptures out of bike parts:

    Chris Cole Designs - Kinetic Sculptures Paintings and Sketches by Chris Cole Designs

    Barry Wicks was also working a Cyclotopia at that time and he now races for Kona and recently won the Transrockies which is pretty crazy. Corvallis is an incredible little town with amazing trails that few seem to know about.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    let me test my notoriously poor memory: Foresty green, roller cam bosses (?) 140 rear dropout spacing, and i think 120 up front? Or am i just making sheeit up?
    I'm impressed! I really wish I had a photo of it from those days- it was/is a perfect bike for the trails around there. A few years back I decided to pay my respect and I found an XT groupo and had it painted- someday it will ride again. This is how it sits at a friends shop in NE.




    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    The guy who I bought my bike from, Rick Shaw, knew all sorts of old school bike people from Cali, and had some really cool Mantis and Ibis stuff, too.
    I remember you saying that and I know of a couple other people that mentioned it- it makes me think there may be a shop up there somewhere with a nice stash of old stuff to dig through.

    Feel free to send me an email if you want- I don't want to derail your thread anymore than I already have..

    mjanike@monkeywrenchcycles.com

  16. #16
    CS2
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    Back in '95, I bought a beautiful Pearl White WTB Phoenix (standard edition, suspension corrected) as a high school graduation present from my parents.
    Back in 76 we didn't have MTB's. So, I got a Cross pen set. Somehow I feel cheated. Good luck on the project.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan lee View Post
    Lol- funny stuff.....I just walked in from the store.

    Chris Cole is his name- I don't think there is a nicer guy out there plus he is a complete genius. I've used my bag daily/weekly since 2000 without issue. Him and Sweat Pea started making those before anyone. He lives in Bend now and is making these absolutely amazing kinetic sculptures out of bike parts:

    Chris Cole Designs - Kinetic Sculptures Paintings and Sketches by Chris Cole Designs

    Barry Wicks was also working a Cyclotopia at that time and he now races for Kona and recently won the Transrockies which is pretty crazy. Corvallis is an incredible little town with amazing trails that few seem to know about.
    I'm impressed! I really wish I had a photo of it from those days- it was/is a perfect bike for the trails around there. A few years back I decided to pay my respect and I found an XT groupo and had it painted- someday it will ride again. This is how it sits at a friends shop in NE.

    I remember you saying that and I know of a couple other people that mentioned it- it makes me think there may be a shop up there somewhere with a nice stash of old stuff to dig through.

    Feel free to send me an email if you want- I don't want to derail your thread anymore than I already have..

    mjanike@monkeywrenchcycles.com
    Hey, and Barry Wicks now lives in the Monterey Bay area (Santa Cruz).

    Did someone say Phoenix? Did somoene say Monterey?

    <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/threadedtitanium/DSC02621-1-1.jpg">

    <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/threadedtitanium/DSC00227-1.jpg">

    <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/threadedtitanium/DSC00692-1-1.jpg">

    Best time of the year for riding here is fall-spring. Be happy to show you some of the local stuff if you like semi-difficult/demanding singletrack and don't mind long climbs.

  18. #18
    I'm just messing with you
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    Give SP time, he even responds to DH's like me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-img_6625.jpg  

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  19. #19
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    This thread is making me want a Phoenix.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    This thread is making me want a Phoenix.
    Here is the other beat one in our family.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy View Post
    Where in California are you?

    I restomod'ed my Phoenix and its easily the best bike I've ever ridden. Good luck on your resto!



    that is my favourite phoenix. does it have a metal wtb badge in the front?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    This thread is making me want a Phoenix.
    Meh!




    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-img_6225small.jpg  


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy View Post
    Thanks man... I also wanted a good feeling/performing fork.
    What fork is that, Rumpfy?

  24. #24
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    This thread gives me warm fuzzy feelings!
    -eric-

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  25. #25
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    what's not to love about Phoenixes? You can set it up any way you want. I can't bear to change out my awesome performing shifters and derailleurs. Not too many period correct ones here anyways.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-p1050195.jpg  


  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    what's not to love about Phoenixes? You can set it up any way you want. I can't bear to change out my awesome performing shifters and derailleurs. Not too many period correct ones here anyways.
    That cute little thing looks like a 29er.

    Phoenixes? Phoenii?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by utahdog2003 View Post
    That cute little thing looks like a 29er.
    You're right. I've always thought so too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utahdog2003 View Post
    That cute little thing looks like a 29er.

    Phoenixes? Phoenii?
    only poseurs say Phoenii.

    Also, it's Mantises.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by utahdog2003 View Post
    That cute little thing looks like a 29er.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    I really like the two-tone paint on the fork on that bike, G. It definitely makes it stand out.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  30. #30
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    Those skewer handles look big enough to use for self defense if needed
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    only poseurs say Phoenii.

    Also, it's Mantises.
    I like Phoenii. I get confused by words with an 'X' in them. I am from the South.

    Wasn't Mantise a French Impressionist?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machianera View Post
    that is my favourite phoenix. does it have a metal wtb badge in the front?
    It's a 'pre-badge' bike. After the respray, I only put two decals on it. I have enough flashy bikes...I wanted the fastest one to be stealth. /thread hijack.



    -eric-

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    only poseurs say Phoenii.
    and only posers spell poseurs that way
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy View Post
    /thread hijack.
    Oh sure! AFTER posting 4 pictures of your Phoenix you find the high-road. I see how it is...













  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob View Post
    and only posers spell poseurs that way
    well, with that particular spelling I meant the highest level of the disorder.

    Pull this thread back onto the tracks, G!

    Might need to retitle this one!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    Might need to retitle this one!
    I suggest "Phoenix Owners Gone Wild!"
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    This thread is making me want a Phoenix.
    Me too.

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    It may benefit a repaint but i can't cope loosing the decals.



  39. #39
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    hahahahaha. I need one of those f%^&* phoenixes or phoenii

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by utahdog2003 View Post
    What fork is that, Rumpfy?
    that's a 63mm travel sid xc.

  41. #41
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    It's actually 64mm.

  42. #42
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    I prefer this style:

    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by utahdog2003 View Post
    What fork is that, Rumpfy?

    Hippietech tuned SID. 63mm of travel.
    -eric-

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  44. #44
    GMF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    Hey, and Barry Wicks now lives in the Monterey Bay area (Santa Cruz).

    Did someone say Phoenix? Did somoene say Monterey?
    ...
    Best time of the year for riding here is fall-spring. Be happy to show you some of the local stuff if you like semi-difficult/demanding singletrack and don't mind long climbs.
    That sounds like a lot of fun. My current mountain bike was my "pretend like i can ride the North Shore" bike when i was up in Canada, and now I am mostly riding road, so those two riding conditions are right up my alley. I'll set a Phoenix ride as one of my goals for completing this bike.

    Here are a few pics of the sorry state of my little bike. Artistically extra depressing looking via bad cell phone pics. '94 model I bought early '95 (winter in Alaska... I had it as a frame only for a couple months before i finished building it up. I remember watching TV with it just sitting in my lap sometimes).

    It has the late model graphics (i prefer earlier), and the head badge (which I like more). You can also see some of the dents - i think there are like 4 or 5 dents in the frame. It is pretty beat up, but rides well. It just makes me sad to look at it .

    I'd also like to say THANK YOU to all the people who have been posting here, e-mailing and p-mailing me with information and help. As i've been sharing this thread and my enthusiasm for this project with my wife, she has upped my budget to something I sure as heck hope is enough to get it done... I won't have enough to pimp it out, but there should be enough to make it a very happy trail bike. The tentative goal is to have the frame done by Christmas, as she wants to have something wrapped under the tree for me (this is eating up my xmas budget, for sure!). So as long as I can get a hold of Mr. Potts relatively soon, i hope that can happen... but I am sure he has a wait list and his own life to lead, so fingers crossed.

    Thanks again, and I'm digging all the Phoenix love.

    -Damon
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-photo-1.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-photo-2.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-photo-3.jpg  


  45. #45
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    Barry moved to Chicago. And phoenixes rule.
    "believe what you ride, not what you read" 94 WTB catalog

  46. #46
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    The tentative goal is to have the frame done by Christmas,
    Christmas 2012 is a good goal, seriously.

  47. #47
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Yes, unfortunately, that's a more likely scenario. The guy is really, really busy and he's got a million projects going on and a lot of it is not related to biking. I think you should just build it up and ride it in the meantime and enjoy our lovely winters. Brr...so cold today.

  48. #48
    GMF
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleCentury View Post
    Christmas 2012 is a good goal, seriously.
    Sigh... I'm sure you are right...

  49. #49
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Yes, unfortunately, that's a more likely scenario. The guy is really, really busy and he's got a million projects going on and a lot of it is not related to biking. I think you should just build it up and ride it in the meantime and enjoy our lovely winters. Brr...so cold today.
    yep, agree on the SP timeline. Even a year could be pretty optimistic.

    But, if it doesn't have to be done by Potts, Rick Hunter and Paul Sadoff are close and quicker.

    Then just add a fourth name to the seat tube.

  50. #50
    VRC Illuminati
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    Haha! Marin time Damon....2012. Sorry buddy.


    Count me in on that Monterey all Pheonix ride. Having ridden with Fillet-brazed out there, bring your A-game. Really fun network of trials.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

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