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Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)

29K views 216 replies 38 participants last post by  classen 
#1 ·
Hello VRC,

I've been wanting to do this for quite a while, and I am optimistic I am finally going to be able to do it.

Back in '95, I bought a beautiful Pearl White WTB Phoenix (standard edition, suspension corrected) as a high school graduation present from my parents. It was a truly wonderful bike built with a mix of XC-Pro, New Paradigm, and a rolling assortment of other accessories. It handled the Alaskan trails around my house beautifully in winter and summer for a couple years, and even carried me on an Alaska -> Oregon bike tour with 4 dutch guys when I transferred to an out of state university. Despite the increased mud and much more technical terrain, the bike was still awesome, although I was affectionately known as "endo king" for my propensity for going over the front (i'll blame the 140mm stem).

I've had AMP forks, Judys, a Type II, and even a Noleen Crosslink on that bike. Scoff all you want, that crosslink was an awesome fork for my riding and I liked it a lot (so much so that i even had a local builder roll out the fork induced dents :madman: and move the cable stops back to better work with the fork). The frame was nicely repainted by my dad a sort of midnight blue, which I immediately dented up again. I guess in retrospect, that fork was a bad decision for this bike.

...
Time passes and the Phoenix slowly fades from ride circulation for a variety of reasons. It has been waiting patiently in a series of garages or storage places for 7 or 8 years, coming out to play every once in a while.

I now live in California again (and will for the foreseeable future), where the Phoenix will shine. My plan is to do a sort of nuevo-retro thing. I want to put a rollercam on the back and a nice quality period correct V-brake up front on a modern 80mm fork, putting as much of the xc-pro & new paradigm stuff back on that i can scrounge up. This is definitely going to be a rider and I hope to explore a lot of central coast trails on the resurrected Phoenix.

So my first step is to contact Steve Potts who I spoke to back in 2007 about this frame, and who was willing to replace the jacked up front triangle then. Unfortunately, at the time my wallet wasn't so into the idea. Things are a little different now, and I e-mailed him on Tuesday, but have yet to hear back (is that typical?).

I'm not really asking any questions, but just kind of sharing a bit of my excitement that I hope will be realized sometime in the not too distant future.

-Damon
 
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#124 ·
Damon- What you're noting as differences between '94 and '96 were elements of the one big re-do the steel Phoenix got during its lifespan. I've had #94304 and #96444 (both 140mm dropout and togglecam setups) and they had all those differences PLUS:
- different decal sets
- 3 bottle bosses on the down tube of the '96 for a Bomber cage
- slightly more suspension correction on the '96 than the '94
- Different BB shells (the '96 is thicker and you can convert it to press-in bearings - a popular PCC mod)

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I suspect that most frames that have canti mounts were built as 135mm. Many (maybe even most) of the RC and TC mount frames were 140mm. WTB's assumption was probably that if a customer fully bought into the WTB vision, they'd want the good brakes and the good spacing. ;-)
 
#139 ·
Well, the frame is finally going under the toch. So far, the paint has been stripped, which unveiled... history. Quite a few dents (mostly really small - Xs mark the spots), but also some pinholes in the seat tube and some crusty rusty bits on the stays. The pin holes will be filled with silver and the stays will probably get some brass filling them in. Nothing structurally concerning, and I like that the builder is caring about this and letting me know what he's doing to fix them.

Things are starting to move...

Now i just hope the decals are finished sometime in the near future (i have received several "almost done" e-mails from Velo Cals). I'm sure it'll all get done in the end. I just need to get all this together before my birthday next month :thumbsup:

-Damon
 

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#143 ·
Well, the frame is finally going under the toch. So far, the paint has been stripped, which unveiled... history. Quite a few dents (mostly really small - Xs mark the spots), but also some pinholes in the seat tube and some crusty rusty bits on the stays. The pin holes will be filled with silver and the stays will probably get some brass filling them in. Nothing structurally concerning, and I like that the builder is caring about this and letting me know what he's doing to fix them.

Things are starting to move...

Now i just hope the decals are finished sometime in the near future (i have received several "almost done" e-mails from Velo Cals). I'm sure it'll all get done in the end. I just need to get all this together before my birthday next month :thumbsup:

-Damon
I got my Airborne decals done from VeloCals, top quality work, but very, very slow. Keep
contacting him, that's what I had to do to get them done. Good luck.:)
 
#210 ·
This weekend I got my dremel on and replaced the bearings on the front New Paradigm hub that had loosened up and were on their way out. After 17ish years of use, time was due. They rolled fine, it was just the play that was bugging me. Unfortunately, most things that could have gone wrong, did.

The first thing I had to do was split the metal rings outboard of the bearing. These were siezed to the axle with no real good way of getting any purchase on them. Remove one side and tap, tAp, TAP... out the axle.
Font Metal Auto part Wood Composite material

Of course, the cone came with. Not much holding the cone in on an angular contact bearing.

Bearing one with no cone in there any more = hassle for removing outer race.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bicycle part Rim Engineering

This bearing seemed like the one going bad (didn't grease guard enough, i guess)
Bicycle hub Rim Bicycle part Carbon Automotive tire


The inner race popped out of both bearings, leaving me with the split and pound method of bearing removal.
...which i did:
Wheel Bicycle hub Bicycle tire Hub gear Automotive tire


I like my dremel a lot and it can really help me out in situations like this. Eventually got everything out and cleaned up the inside of the shell.
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Bicycle tire Bicycle hub


Then in goes the grease guard seal backer
Wheel Tire Bicycle hub Automotive tire Hub gear


Then the grease guard seal
Bicycle hub Tire Wheel Automotive tire Tread


Fortunately, Enduro is still providing a source for these inch-based bearings
Bicycle Bicycle tire Crankset Hub gear Automotive tire


I guess orange seals are cooler?
Tire Wheel Bicycle hub Hub gear Automotive tire


But of course, remove the inner seal to work with the grease guard (after I get some appropriate grease)
Wheel Bicycle hub Automotive tire Bicycle Rim


And finally, installed. A few times there I thought i completely messed up, but in the end it pulled through
Bicycle Bicycle hub Bicycle wheel rim Bicycle tire Hub gear


I've decided i'm not a huge fan of micro-shims for setting bearing pre-load, but it seems like they work in the long run. There is the slightly tiniest of play in the front wheel (between shim thicknesses), but it rolls really well and is an improvement.

This gave up the "FCAC" bearings, but got the ceramic instead. I hope it will be an upgrade and last a while.

...slowly making improvements....
 
#5 ·
Rumpfy said:
Where in California are you?
I restomod'ed my Phoenix and its easily the best bike I've ever ridden. Good luck on your resto!
I think I'm not too far from you. I'm in Monterey, CA.

Rumpfy - that is a dead sexy bike. Clearly i'm biased, but i like that, a LOT. I could dig the disk on front, but i have a new paradigm hubset that is begging to be put on it (and honestly for around here, I am totally fine with rim brakes, and like the simplicity).

Aemmer - Sorry, it be sold already. It is hopefully funding this pseudo-restoration.

General question: Is Steve Potts usually good about the e-mail? I'm just wondering how long I should wait before I try to get in touch with him again... Maybe if i get deperate, i'll stalk him at NAHBS in Sacramento...
 
#6 ·
General question: Is Steve Potts usually good about the e-mail? I'm just wondering how long I should wait before I try to get in touch with him again... Maybe if i get deperate, i'll stalk him at NAHBS in Sacramento...
If you're not having luck contacting Steve, send an e-mail or call Mikes at Black Mountain Cycles: Black Mountain Cycles

Mike deals with Steve very often and many of Steve's bikes go through him. He's a good contact for Potts repairs.
 
#8 ·
I think resto-mods are great! Just updated my '96 Slingshot this fall. Signed myself and three boys up for the Iceman race in Traverse City and wanted to run the Sling.

Had the local shop build a pair of NOS XTR hubs with Stan's 355s so I could go tubeless.
Also went with a 1x9 XTR drivetrain. It's my favorite ride now. A lot of guys got a
kick out of it at the race.
 
#11 ·
Thank you for all that experience based information, Rumpfy. I had a few ideas on how to address the different cable pulls front and back. The first and easiest idea was to use a set of older Avid sd2.0 canti levers (I think that is what they are). Not super high end, but work well and feel pretty nice. I've used them on canti's, Vs, and disks, and they work surprisingly well across all three (least satisfied with them matched to BB7 disks, but work great with some generic avid Vs on my commuter). Another costlier option was to see about buying mis-matched Paul's Love Levers, and just get the right pull on the right side. And the final thought was to play with some scrap aluminum sheet and see about making a V-friendly cam. That last option clearly has the highest chance of frustration/failure, but I'm not scared of a project...

Do any of you know if C Cunningham is still making brakes? I get the gist that he is, but it seems like a one-off "maybe" kind of a thing... Probably out my budget anyway :-/

Laffeaux, thanks for the suggestion, but I'm pretty keen on Potts doing it. If, for whatever reason that doesn't work out, I'll definitely look them up.

993rs, I bet that sling is awesome. My cross/roadie bike is a slingshot, but one of the generic made in china ones - no cool cable+spring for me...
 
#77 ·
Thank you for all that experience based information, Rumpfy. I had a few ideas on how to address the different cable pulls front and back. The first and easiest idea was to use a set of older Avid sd2.0 canti levers (I think that is what they are). Not super high end, but work well and feel pretty nice. I've used them on canti's, Vs, and disks, and they work surprisingly well across all three (least satisfied with them matched to BB7 disks, but work great with some generic avid Vs on my commuter).
Avid SD Ultimate levers are the ticket - pull adjustment for short (canti/roller/road disc) and long (v or MT disc) pull.

My 94 SE with toggle rear and V front:

 
#47 ·
Yes, unfortunately, that's a more likely scenario. The guy is really, really busy and he's got a million projects going on and a lot of it is not related to biking. I think you should just build it up and ride it in the meantime and enjoy our lovely winters. Brr...so cold today. ;)
 
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