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  1. #176
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    I also saw you're using Avid brake levers with adjustable leverage- what leverage setting are they on? With the cable carrier thingie closer to the bar, or farther away?
    I remember riding a Phoenix several years ago, just a really great do it all hardtail, would love to own one. Thanks for posting the pics.
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  2. #177
    GMF
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    It Is pretty much right in the middle. These are the cantilever Avid SD brake levers, btw. However, by altering the cam profile you should be able make it work with either canti or v brake levers.

  3. #178
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    Thought I would just update this thread with a little (albeit already outdated) ride picture on a fun little outing around Pebble Beach.

    I'm enjoying the 2x8 drivetrain, and the rear toggle cam is working fine (have made a couple of improvements), and the xc-pro thumbies with m900 rear derailleur still shifts wonderfully. I need to drop some money on another fork, though, since the judy-crowned sid, while OK, is a weak link in the ride. Maybe just a full rebuild is needed. The 80mm of travel works really well with the frame, though - much better than i thought. The 1" steerer is going to prove a sticky point for fork replacement, as usual...

    I swapped the pretty TTT 140x0* stem for a salsa 120x6*(?) stem, and it fits much better, so I don't feel like I'm always headed for an endo...

    My last ride was in the rain and slop around here though (on the same trail pictured), and oh man... did those v-brakes in front suck it up. I had forgotten how bad they are in the wet! I may be swapping to a disk front end - which is a pretty awesome contrast to the toggle cam. It'll be my mullet bike: business in the front, party in the back.

    I've got lots of little tweaks and mods planned for the future, but it is all fabrication intensive (well, for me, anyway), so it'll happen slowly...

    Anyway, just a little update
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-phoenix-woods.jpg  


  4. #179
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    It'll be my mullet bike: business in the front, party in the back.
    ha! That's funny! I was thinking that your forks may work substantially better after a Hippietech rebuild. I've had good stopping power with v brakes in the rain. Have you thought about changing your pads to the salmon kool stops? Are there pics of your mods to the togglecams?

    Thanks for the update!

  5. #180
    GMF
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    Thanks for the suggestions GOB - i do not have the salmons on there, despite being a big fan of them. I do have the original salmon pads on the back (mathauser finned jobbies), and they did seem less effected by the wet. Regarding the togglecam mods - the togglecam kind of IS the mod. It was originally an xc-sport (expert?) roller cam that i toggled up. You can see a picture of it on pg 7. Since then, i've swapped out the brass roller with an old avid rollamajig roller (the metal kind). Feels like butter, now. I can take more detailed pics, if you want to see something more specific...

    As for hippietech - i've never looked into them. If it runs $75, i'd probably go for it, but if it's $150, i just don't think the fork is worth it. I left a message with them, so we'll see what they have to say...

  6. #181
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    I'm sorry, I had a brain fart. I see the pictures below. That's great that it worked well. I love the guys that do a lot of creative modifications on this forum. I have a great respect for innovative people.

    Let us know what happens with your suspension fix!

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    As for hippietech - i've never looked into them. If it runs $75, i'd probably go for it, but if it's $150, i just don't think the fork is worth it. I left a message with them, so we'll see what they have to say...
    I've not had a good experience with HT. It's a one man operation and the owner operator is obviously very busy with stuff other than his business. I won't bore you to death with details and I don't feel particularly comfortable bad mouthing people or businesses in a public way on on the interwebs. Suffice it to say, if I was going to get my forks serviced again I would look around for an alternate company.

  8. #183
    GMF
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    Thanks classen - good information. I am perfectly capable of rebuilding the forks, it would just take me some time, and all the parts would start approaching $75 (oil, bushings, all seals, etc). So parts with free labor *should* be a good deal, but only if it doesn't get to be a hassle!

    I've got a couple options moving forward, but I definitely appreciate the advice.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by classen View Post
    I've not had a good experience with HT. It's a one man operation and the owner operator is obviously very busy with stuff other than his business. I won't bore you to death with details and I don't feel particularly comfortable bad mouthing people or businesses in a public way on on the interwebs. Suffice it to say, if I was going to get my forks serviced again I would look around for an alternate company.
    That's interesting. CCMDoc mentioned this in a different thread today. That is too bad. I was going to use him but got a forum regular that lived near me to help out instead. (Thanks!) Rumpfy has used him and swore by him. Too bad if his work has gone downhill. Thanks for letting us know, Classen.

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    I may be swapping to a disk front end - which is a pretty awesome contrast to the toggle cam. It'll be my mullet bike: business in the front, party in the back.
    I probably mentioned it or posted a pic earlier in this thread, but I did the mullet with my TC'ed Phoenix. Get a road BB7 Avid disk brake and it'll pair up nicely with your cantilever specific levers.


    And yes, my fork is a HippieTech built SID. Under 3lbs and several years of hard abuse with no issues. I know some have had bad experiences, but mine have been good. Maybe because I worked with Jerry on a few forks early (maybe 10 years ago now) on and have been a repeat customer.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com

    Wanted: Syncros 27.2 x 425 seatpost

  11. #186
    GMF
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    Yeah, I've seen your mullet Phoenix, Rumpfy - and I definitely dig it. If I do end up disking the front, I'm contemplating putting a hydraulic piston back for the toggle cam and going a full hydro brake setup just for giggles. Cable brakes for now, though, as I like having the matched new paradigm hubs.

    I have an experiment underway with the fork thing that may take a couple weeks to get all the parts in, but if that pans out, i'll post it up. In the mean time, i'll just re-lube the stantions on the SID to get it bouncy again and avoid nasty muck.

  12. #187
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    I was a mix of irresponsible and responsible over the last few months. Just cleaned up the fork, and it still works well enough, and got a set of salmon pad inserts, so that helped out braking (thanks for the suggestion, GOB).

    I want to see if you guys can pick out the 4 other changes that happened today. Additional little story if they are picked out (and i'll be shocked if the changes aren't picked out with ease!)

    -Damon
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-phoenix1.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-photo-2.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-photo-3.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-photo-4.jpg  


  13. #188
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    1) Sweet Wings cranks
    2) New/shorter black stem (Salsa I'm guessing)
    3) Syncros Steer Horn bar ends
    4) A kid, assuming he's yours as well.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com

    Wanted: Syncros 27.2 x 425 seatpost

  14. #189
    GMF
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    1 and 3 are definitely correct, and I guess #2 is technically correct, but that had been changed a while ago (yeah - salsa). As for #4, that kid has been hanging around for 7 years. For some reason, I can't get rid of him...

    Stupid story is about the cranks. I had been on the lookout for a set of syncros cranks (have a thing for the tubular steel cranks), and then found the sweets in good shape. Went to install them, but lo-and-behold the tube that fits between the bearings is not held tight (as it is supposed to - this tube keeps the drive side bearing in place, which holds the cranks in place). So the solution is presumably to face the BB shell by about 1/2mm.
    I took it to the local bike who wanted the bike for about 5 days until they could do this 10 minute job, but whatever... Fine.
    On wednesday, though, i get a call from the shop saying they got the BB in and they added a shim between the drive side cup and the frame.
    What?
    Turns out they didn't set the tube correctly and they munched it. Not happy.

    Lemons into lemonade, though: i just happened to have a crusty, dead cannondale road frame that i had been meaning to throw out... with the same OD 1.25" tube. Out comes a hack saw, out comes the chop saw, and bam. New (slightly wider) spacer. Thicker wall, so I added a bit of weight, but mass macho (and who cares about the weight?). LocTite is setting up tonight, so we'll see how they hold up. They feel good and tight, though, so i hope they'll be way better than what was on there before.

    This is why I don't like other people working on my bikes...

  15. #190
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    Good job Damon! Cute kid. that was a ton of effort. Do you have a close up of the process of what you did?
    Wanted: WTB rollercams and brake bridges

  16. #191
    GMF
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    I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow of the munched tube (not really THAT bad - just significantly worse than i brought it in), the cut up bike in the garbage, and the tube in the chop saw. The last part was fun.

  17. #192
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    This isn't going to help much, as they are double ghetto cell phone pics. Post shorty night ride, so my bike light + iphone provide the photographic ambiance.

    First is the picture of what the spacer should look like (one end)
    Second is what the spacer got turned into (the other end)
    ... after thought and bike shop trubs...
    Third are the remains of the old cannondale road bike in the recycling
    Fourth is the seat tube clamped in the chop saw
    Fifth is a the first spacer that i cut, and no matter how many times i cut that sumbich, it still ended up too short. Had to make a new one.
    <>


    Probably the worst "this is what i did" photo group on the internet, but there isn't anything complicated about the process.

    Step 1) find 1.25" OD aluminum tube
    Step 2) square off 1 end in the chop saw (used fine pitch blade)
    Step 3) compare length to munched tube, add a tiny bit
    Step 4) cut other end of 1.25" OD aluminum tube
    Step 5) deburr edges with dremel+sanding drum
    Step 6) install

    Number of people in the world this post will help? 0
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-1-tube-clean.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-2-tube-munched.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-3-cut-up-frame.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-4chopsaw.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-5-too-short.jpg  

    Last edited by GMF; 01-21-2013 at 08:02 AM.

  18. #193
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    I'm not sure I fully understand the need for the spacer tube, as I've put thousands of miles on a set of these cranks without one. It seems like good adhesive on the bearing and the drive side cup is sufficient to hold it in place. I think I once read that the tube kept the two bearings and cups in nice, square alignment, but this seems less critical on a frame with a BB shell that has been properly faced on both sides. I do use Loctite liberally during installation.

  19. #194
    GMF
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    The spacer tube pushes the drive side bearing firmly into the cup to prevent axial movement. It is what is supposed to set the stop for the drive side cup as the spacer gets squeezed between the drive side bearing and the non-drive side cup (the threaded section you fit the tool into).

    The cranks float in the non-drive side bearing, but pinch the drive bearing inner race, and that is what holds the crank arms in place, left/right. A robust positioning of the drive bearing seems important. Apparently loctite does the job well enough, but i guess I wanted to preserve the original design intent. I am using loctite at the splined interface and also at the bolt holding the crank together, though.

    It is a clever design, with some known but easily addressed flaws. I hope the cranks last me for a while.

    On my ride last night, i did notice the "stiffness", but definitely can't say it was an earth shattering experience. It was a nice ride and they performed without me noticing them, and that is a good thing, so i'm happy :-)

  20. #195
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    I like your build. I like the stem.. the crankset.. bike color.. suntour thumb shifters.. it looks right. even the bar ends on the semi riser look good.
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  21. #196
    GMF
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    So i had an interesting (and hopefully not future life threatening) project this weekend. I've been frustrated with the lack of 1" steerer tube suspension fork options (i know white brothers is out there, but not interested in their $700 fork), so I decided to do something about it.

    I had an old Noleen Mega Air fork that I liked well enough, but was in... "hard to sell" condition. I figured why not try to swap in a 1" steerer tube. 1" RST threadless steerers are surprisingly cheap on amazon so I ordered one up.

    Next, you'll see my borderline redneck way of approaching this:

    1) Chop saw the steerer off (i like my chop saw!)
    2) You've been chopped
    3) Rig up a dubious way of clamping a plunge router to the top of the crown
    4) plunge as far as you can go - be disappointed that it didn't cut all the way through
    5) bust out the dremel to finish it off
    (not shown) - borrow an adjustable reamer and open up the hole to the right size (the steerer tube was 1.069" diameter - calc out that a .004-.005" press fit should be pretty good, so ream it to 1.064). The reamer wasn't so awesome, so i did the best I could.
    6) Throw the steerer in some dry ice to shrink it
    7) Throw the fork uppers in the oven to expand it
    8) Get a rigged up clampy thing ready (after trying to just "slip them together" unsuccessfully: -110*F steel will heat up quickly when touched to 200*F aluminum, and the calculated clearance turns into an interference)
    9) Get your son to help you with the jenky press, and voila'! Steerer installed.
    10) Mount it to the bike and breath some life back into the fork.

    The fork kind of looks like junk, but it'll work well enough and seems in better shape than the Sid that was on there before. Also, noticably less flexy. Between the 32mm stantions and the 9mm ritchey Sqraxle that I adapted to the New Paradigm hub, it tracks pretty darn well... on the road in front of my house :-) No hands riding works with no problem and the steerer hasn't twisted in the crown, yet (but I am going to add a dowel pin - just in case). The slightly longer steerer tube also gets the handlebars up higher which unweights the front end a bit and lightens up the steering, offsetting the longer travel fork.

    If this process works out, i'm thinking of getting a later model Sid or Fox Float (or suggestions?) and pressing in a threaded steerer for a little extra intrigue.

    I'm sure you'll hear a report from me in the hospital in a month or so...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-image.jpg  


  22. #197
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)

    I love the shock pump just tossed aside in the last frame. what a process. I'm glad you documented it and hope it works out for you. Kudos to you and quite a few members here like Double Century, modifier, clausen, et al. who are skilled and creative enough to find solutions on your own.
    Wanted: WTB rollercams and brake bridges

  23. #198
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    No thanks, wouldn't ride it. Why not call a custom builder and have them build you a nice steel fork and be done with it?

  24. #199
    GMF
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    Thanks, GOB. I realize my stuff is pretty hacky compared to many of the other mods, but it is an entertaining process.

    Quote Originally Posted by 993rs View Post
    No thanks, wouldn't ride it. Why not call a custom builder and have them build you a nice steel fork and be done with it?
    Because then I would have a rigid fork and not the possibility for a modern suspension fork on a classic frame. Also, a big part of the appeal is building something myself and learning something new. I also like that my kids help out and see that things can be built and not just bought.

    Just for the record, an industrial version of this is how suspension forks are made these days (well, have been made since the mid 90s).

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    So i had an interesting (and hopefully not future life threatening) project this weekend. I've been frustrated with the lack of 1" steerer tube suspension fork options (i know white brothers is out there, but not interested in their $700 fork), so I decided to do something about it.

    I had an old Noleen Mega Air fork that I liked well enough, but was in... "hard to sell" condition. I figured why not try to swap in a 1" steerer tube. 1" RST threadless steerers are surprisingly cheap on amazon so I ordered one up.

    Next, you'll see my borderline redneck way of approaching this:

    1) Chop saw the steerer off (i like my chop saw!)
    2) You've been chopped
    3) Rig up a dubious way of clamping a plunge router to the top of the crown
    4) plunge as far as you can go - be disappointed that it didn't cut all the way through
    5) bust out the dremel to finish it off
    (not shown) - borrow an adjustable reamer and open up the hole to the right size (the steerer tube was 1.069" diameter - calc out that a .004-.005" press fit should be pretty good, so ream it to 1.064). The reamer wasn't so awesome, so i did the best I could.
    6) Throw the steerer in some dry ice to shrink it
    7) Throw the fork uppers in the oven to expand it
    8) Get a rigged up clampy thing ready (after trying to just "slip them together" unsuccessfully: -110*F steel will heat up quickly when touched to 200*F aluminum, and the calculated clearance turns into an interference)
    9) Get your son to help you with the jenky press, and voila'! Steerer installed.
    10) Mount it to the bike and breath some life back into the fork.

    The fork kind of looks like junk, but it'll work well enough and seems in better shape than the Sid that was on there before. Also, noticably less flexy. Between the 32mm stantions and the 9mm ritchey Sqraxle that I adapted to the New Paradigm hub, it tracks pretty darn well... on the road in front of my house :-) No hands riding works with no problem and the steerer hasn't twisted in the crown, yet (but I am going to add a dowel pin - just in case). The slightly longer steerer tube also gets the handlebars up higher which unweights the front end a bit and lightens up the steering, offsetting the longer travel fork.

    If this process works out, i'm thinking of getting a later model Sid or Fox Float (or suggestions?) and pressing in a threaded steerer for a little extra intrigue.

    I'm sure you'll hear a report from me in the hospital in a month or so...

    Nice cryofit action.

    I've wondered this when using heat and cold to temporarily alter dimensions so maybe you know; you said you cooled the steerer which makes sense, and then you heated the crown to make it expand (ie achieve a bigger ID). Well, if it expands couldn't it expand in such a way and close down that ID to a smaller diameter?

    Higher stem to compensate for taller fork? I would think the stem would need to go the other way...

    Nice little project. I love that kinda stuff. I would certainly pin it. Maybe even twice.

    When are we riding?

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