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  1. #101
    GMF
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    why are you running a 140mm stem? those bikes have long top tubes. almost everybody is on a phoneix w/ 120mm stem.
    Well, back in the day of 135 stems being very common, a 140 didn't seem out there. I'm 6' tall and am on the medium frame - at the top end of the fit department.

    I could have gone either way, i suppose, but always liked the ride, so no complaints (except for going over the bars too often )

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    why are you running a 140mm stem? those bikes have long top tubes. almost everybody is on a phoneix w/ 120mm stem.
    Actually their top tubes are fairly short. They work well with drop bars because of the shorter top tube.

    I ran a 135mm stem on an 18" flat-bar Phoenix, but sold it for a later model 16.5" which works great with a 120mm x 25 degree stem for a drop bar. I'm about a 1/2" over 6 feet.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Actually their top tubes are fairly short. They work well with drop bars because of the shorter top tube.

    I ran a 135mm stem on an 18" flat-bar Phoenix, but sold it for a later model 16.5" which works great with a 120mm x 25 degree stem for a drop bar. I'm about a 1/2" over 6 feet.
    A 15in, medium phoenix has a 22.75 top tube. That's not short. Although top tube measure alone won't tell the whole story. i ride bikes w/ 22.25 top tubes and i am 5'9
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    why are you running a 140mm stem? those bikes have long top tubes. almost everybody is on a phoneix w/ 120mm stem.
    you talking about my 96 phoenix?

    it is a 120mm, but i've used 135mm in the past.

    phoenix frames have a fairly neutral "actual" top tube length i believe, and i agree this makes them work well with drop bars. That 93 of mine barely has a 22.5 actual top tube and it's the biggest one they made at that time.

    if you weren't talking about my frame, then carry on, sorry for the words.
    "believe what you ride, not what you read" 94 WTB catalog

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    v chipped vs non v chipped.
    Non.....Sniff.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  6. #106
    GMF
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    A little update.

    After contacting several builders/repair people, I finally settled on someone relatively close to me. Good price, good lead time, and I like what i've seen of his work. This will be a straight restoration job and switching to Rollercams type of gig. It's not Mr. Potts, but I'm pretty comfortable with the decision.
    I've also started collecting the parts. I received my NOS rollercam... while not a high end version, it will certainly get me going. The long term plan is to use my CAD skills and access to CNC to make some cool neuvo-retro cams, but no rush for that. Also dug out the New Paradigm hubset and some Mavic 217 sunset rims that should make for a nice wheelset. The rear hub could use some bearing love, although it is servicable the way it is. I'll swap out the New Paradigm headset from my fixie crosser to this bike (where it belongs) and I'm going to keep my eye out for a later model (something in the '05 to '07 range) SID to graft my 1" Judy crown/steerer assembly on to while dropping to 63mm of travel. A couple other little bits and bobs, and it'll be a happy build, i think!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-photo.jpg  

    Hoping to resto-mod my WTB Phoenix (long-ish)-rear-wheel.jpg  


  7. #107
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    Cool, you got the good version of the roller cam.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddybuddy View Post
    Cool, you got the good version of the roller cam.
    Looks like the coil sprung version, if that's what you like.

    Sounds like a good plan, GMF. The only part you messed up on was selling that Type II to an out of towner.

    Interested in seeing your version of the roller cam someday.

  9. #109
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    It is indeed the coil spring version, not the "way cooler" linear spring version, but I am confident I can make this work well enough for the time being.

    Fillet - sorry about the Type II sale. The moderator threatened to kick me off this forum if i didn't sell it to her.

    A question for people still following this thread, though. Just as a sanity check for the "upgrade" of my Phoenix to a Phoenix SE, could someone measure the distance between the rollercam studs? I want to doubly make sure this ends up correct and that i'm not effing up my bike somehow.

    Thanks a bunch,
    -Damon

  10. #110
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    Consider sending the Roller Cam along with the frame for test fitting.

    Who's doing the work? Hunter? Paul S?
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  11. #111
    GMF
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    Thanks for the suggestion, Rumpfy... you aren't the only one expressing a little bit of concern. I'll definitely be sending the Suntour XC Sport rollercam i bought along with the frame, and if it looks like a no-go (or at least not an easy go), then i'll most definitely live and i'll just stick with V brakes. Not as stylie cool, but i'll make the best of it.

    As for the frame dude, Tony at Black Cat Bicycles. I really dig his style and got a good vibe during my discussion with him. Paul S was a strong supporter of him as a choice, too. Both Paul and Hunter were too busy to take on the work.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post

    A question for people still following this thread, though. Just as a sanity check for the "upgrade" of my Phoenix to a Phoenix SE, could someone measure the distance between the rollercam studs? I want to doubly make sure this ends up correct and that i'm not effing up my bike somehow.

    Thanks a bunch,
    -Damon
    There are directions on where to weld the suntour rc bosses here:
    http://mombat.org/85XCSport4.jpg
    and some other indications here:
    http://mombat.org/WTB%201991%20Produ...20Page%203.jpg

    However I would expect the frame builder to know how.

    Are you planning to use a rear hanger to center the brake cable?

    I would leave the v brake, unless I had SP to weld the bosses and the toggle cam for the back.
    Last edited by Machianera; 12-15-2011 at 12:35 AM.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    It is indeed the coil spring version, not the "way cooler" linear spring version, but I am confident I can make this work well enough for the time being.

    Fillet - sorry about the Type II sale. The moderator threatened to kick me off this forum if i didn't sell it to her.

    A question for people still following this thread, though. Just as a sanity check for the "upgrade" of my Phoenix to a Phoenix SE, could someone measure the distance between the rollercam studs? I want to doubly make sure this ends up correct and that i'm not effing up my bike somehow.

    Thanks a bunch,
    -Damon

    You could always get one of those arch ultimate Avids.. don't remember the name exactly. It's the coolest V brake ever made. there is a phoenix in this thread sporting those brakes. Though i like the SE option a lot.. and then you can obssess about finding a rollercam or two. priceless.
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  14. #114
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    I got a chance to play around at Fillet Brazed's retrobike mausoleum and cryogenics emporium last night, and look at the differences between his, ahem, well loved... '96 Phoenix and my '94. There were definitely some subtle differences in the seat stays (mine are about 8mm wider where the rollercams mount), but that will still work out OK, and after trying his various rollercams on the bike, i really got a sense of how they feel and what is unique about them. I liked it well enough to go ahead with it. I was also able to capture some of the details/nuances of what makes it work well.

    On an unrelated note, does anyone know of a source for either the decals or a graphics file that the earlier model Phoenix decals can be made from?

    Thanks,
    -Damon

  15. #115
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    So many Phoenii Rising from the Ashes.... Very fitting.


  16. #116
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    Dropout spacing question:

    Did ALL Phoenix frames come with a wider dropout? Mine (a not SE version) measured at 137-138 range. Were they trying to split the difference between 135 and 140, or? I just want to know if I should tell the frame guy to correct the spacing to 135 or keep it as-is.

    Thanks,
    -Damon

  17. #117
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    Phoenix frames were either 135 or 140. "Splitting the difference" would have been very un-WTB like.

  18. #118
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    Maybe you've been pinching a 135mm hub in your 140mm spaced frame? :|
    -eric-

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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    I got a chance to play around at Fillet Brazed's retrobike mausoleum and look at the differences between his '96 Phoenix and my '94. There were definitely some subtle differences in the seat stays (mine are about 8mm wider where the rollercams mount
    This might also point to your frame being 140mm spacing. It's a good thing, time to hunt for a matching WTB hub
    ...strictly downhill...

  20. #120
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    "resto mod"
    anyone have a definition for this term?

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by klasse View Post
    "resto mod"
    anyone have a definition for this term?
    Generally speaking: vintage frame, modern parts.

    The term is used a lot in the vintage auto industry.
    -eric-

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    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb49 View Post
    This might also point to your frame being 140mm spacing. It's a good thing, time to hunt for a matching WTB hub
    Mine has 140mm spacing. His seat stays arrive at the seat tube with a wider stance than mine do. Along with a dif sized headtube, and differently shaped stays, there are a few other subtle variations between his 94 and my 96.

    137/138 spacing could be a good thing though, since it would allow you to use either width hub.

    I'm just happy my poor ol' dirty Phoenix got to go on a field trip and come back all clean and shiny. Thanks Damon!

  23. #123
    GMF
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    Quote Originally Posted by halaburt
    Phoenix frames were either 135 or 140. "Splitting the difference" would have been very un-WTB like.
    The "un-WTB like"ness is definitely what prompted me to ask the question. It just didn't seem right for this frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    Mine has 140mm spacing. His seat stays arrive at the seat tube with a wider stance than mine do. Along with a dif sized headtube, and differently shaped stays, there are a few other subtle variations between his 94 and my 96.

    137/138 spacing could be a good thing though, since it would allow you to use either width hub.

    I'm just happy my poor ol' dirty Phoenix got to go on a field trip and come back all clean and shiny. Thanks Damon!
    It was interesting to see how there were so many subtle differences - cable guides, dropouts, etc. between just those 2 years. I don't know why i expected the frames to be more consistent than that. Yours also has the "wide spacing" decal on the stay that mine never did.

    As for the dropout spacing, i'm kind of at a loss as to why it is wider. I know it is a standard edition Phoenix, and assuming that came with a 135 dropout spacing, that is all i've ever put in there. I wouldalso be hard pressed to believe that putting a 140 hub in a 135 frame or vice-versa would permanently set the rear triangle like that.

    I think i'll go to the proper 135 spacing just be more universal and not worry about respacing a hub to 140 if what i've got goes kablooey.

    And for the little bit i got to ride your Phoenix around (when was the last time I was on a hard tail?), it has got me fired up even more on getting this bike back on the dirt.

    -Damon

  24. #124
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    Damon- What you're noting as differences between '94 and '96 were elements of the one big re-do the steel Phoenix got during its lifespan. I've had #94304 and #96444 (both 140mm dropout and togglecam setups) and they had all those differences PLUS:
    - different decal sets
    - 3 bottle bosses on the down tube of the '96 for a Bomber cage
    - slightly more suspension correction on the '96 than the '94
    - Different BB shells (the '96 is thicker and you can convert it to press-in bearings - a popular PCC mod)

    I'm sure there are exceptions, but I suspect that most frames that have canti mounts were built as 135mm. Many (maybe even most) of the RC and TC mount frames were 140mm. WTB's assumption was probably that if a customer fully bought into the WTB vision, they'd want the good brakes and the good spacing. ;-)

  25. #125
    GMF
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    Thanks for those added highlights. I also noticed that the '96 had star bottle boss braze-ons vs. my plain jane ones...

    Both ride great, though.

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