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  1. #1
    mtbr member
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    A formal request for a change of title of this forum.

    Can we please remove Retro from the forums title and maybe Classic too?

    There have been so many heated debates about the title over the years and as far as I can tell no real progress defining what should be included!

    If this becomes the Vintage Mountain Bike forum I bet there will be a lot more new people that venture in and actually get a chance to learn something about the history of the sport and the hardware. As it stands now some of the most knowledgeable members can at times get kinda grumpy if someone new mentions a Retro part that was not made before 1999.

  2. #2
    Team Brooklyn
    Reputation: CCMDoc's Avatar
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    Couldn't disagree more.

    Nothing about the title to dissuade anyone from
    1) reading the stickies to learn about some of the more frequently asked questions;
    2) reading various threads about the bikes and subjects about which they are interested;
    3) learning from those grumpy folk - the people who have been around and doing this stuff a pretty long time;


    Can't see how changing the title change the perspectives of the members you find objectionable or the blurry line in the sand as to what comprises a "vintage" bike.

    And 1999 is way way to modern
    Wanted: more of the same ... but different

  3. #3
    Stokeless Asshat
    Reputation: jeff's Avatar
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    most here would say 89..
    Quote Originally Posted by CCMDoc View Post
    Couldn't disagree more.

    Nothing about the title to dissuade anyone from
    1) reading the stickies to learn about some of the more frequently asked questions;
    2) reading various threads about the bikes and subjects about which they are interested;
    3) learning from those grumpy folk - the people who have been around and doing this stuff a pretty long time;


    Can't see how changing the title change the perspectives of the members you find objectionable or the blurry line in the sand as to what comprises a "vintage" bike.

    And 1999 is way way to modern
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  4. #4
    velocipede technician
    Reputation: hollister's Avatar
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    Beat yourself with a drive side crank arm for bringing this crap up again
    looking for 20-21" P team

  5. #5
    Stokeless Asshat
    Reputation: jeff's Avatar
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    Drive side? That's fu%#ing harsh!
    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    Beat yourself with a drive side crank arm for bringing this crap up again
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  6. #6
    Phobia of petting zoos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcdesigns View Post
    Can we please remove Retro from the forums title and maybe Classic too?
    I'm glad this is being asked. Because it hasn't been asked for a fortnight and I thought maybe I'd lapsed into a coma.

    Quote Originally Posted by arcdesigns View Post
    If this becomes the Vintage Mountain Bike forum I bet there will be a lot more new people that venture in and actually get a chance to learn something about the history of the sport and the hardware.
    That is a noble intention but I fail to see how the words "Retro" and "Classic" dissuade anyone from venturing in.

    Quote Originally Posted by arcdesigns View Post
    As it stands now some of the most knowledgeable members can at times get kinda grumpy if someone new mentions a Retro part that was not made before 1999.
    If it was made before 1999 it's not retro. Retro is something new that is styled after something old, or evokes something old and no longer produced. For example, a Turbo saddle date stamped 1986 is vintage. A reissue Turbo saddle that was made in 2012 is retro.

    I don't see folks getting grumpy (hey, that's my name!) when someone posts up a current issue bike that is styled after something vintage, such as a Klunker, but folks rightly get annoyed when someone comes along with a bike from 2002 and calls it vintage.

    The alternative is to retitle this forum "Vintage MTB (Pre-1996)" (or whatever date is deemed to be appropriate). Then we can all get labelled as being exclusionist.

    MTBR has a wide variety of forums. VRC is just one of those and personally I don't think that needs to be split up. The often used argument that "Retrobike splits it up" is a bit of a moot point because Retrobike is essentially a vintage bike forum and it makes sense there to split it into categories. Here though, it's a wider audience for all things MTB and members can embrace all things MTB, from endurance racing, downhill, freeride, vintage, 29er, touring, frame building etc.

    Grumps

  7. #7
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcdesigns View Post
    There have been so many heated debates about the title over the years and as far as I can tell no real progress defining what should be included!
    And this will go differently?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DJ Giggity's Avatar
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    Just call it "grumpy old dudes who like stupid old bikes" and it will be perfectly descriptive.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    Phobia of petting zoos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    Just call it "grumpy old dudes who like stupid old bikes" and it will be perfectly descriptive.
    Why am I getting singled out?!



    Grumps

  10. #10
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    Drive side? That's fu%#ing harsh!
    At least he didn't tell him to beat himself in the junk with it, double ouch....

    Gotta agree with the masses. "A rose, by any other name", and all that stuff.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  11. #11
    the new Gilbert Grape
    Reputation: laffeaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcdesigns View Post
    If this becomes the Vintage Mountain Bike forum I bet there will be a lot more new people that venture in and actually get a chance to learn something about the history of the sport and the hardware.
    Out of curiosity, why do you feel that the change in name would bring more people in? What aspect of the title discourages people? I think that bringing more people in is a great idea. I'm just not sure how changing the name does that.

    Defining any term is difficult. What is retro? For example, in the recent headset discussion someone felt that a current Cane Creek threaded headset was retro. I can understand why someone would thing that as threaded headsets are less common today. However, I do not consider it retro at all. To me it's a modern threaded headset - it's great that they are offering it, but it's a contemporary design using contemporary graphics. To me that's not retro. The other example given was Chris King. Is a current CK threaded headset retro? I'm not sure, but the design (with the large white logo) has been unchanged for 15+ years. So a current CK headset looks fine on a lot of older bikes - not sure that it makes it retro, but it does not look out of place - whereas the Cane Creek headset would look out of place on a bike with older parts (but there are bikes still being made with 1" threaded steerers, and a Cane Creek would look great on them).

    Not everyone agrees on what "vintage" means. I think that most people at least "tolerate" bikes into the late '90s being called vintage. However, to some/many there is no difference between a 1999 hardtail frame and a 2013 XC hardtail with 26" wheels. A lot of the late '90s bikes that people appreciate are more likely "classic" as they were built by the people and in the style of the "vintage period" - whatever that is.

    If changing the name brings in new people, great (unless they want to talk about their "vintage" 2007 hardtail). But I don't see how changing the title from three ambiguous words to one ambiguous word would help. And if might scare off the people who do have current bikes built in the "vintage style" from posting - for instance a current Rivendell mountain bike fits here a lot better than a 10 year old full-suspension frame.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  12. #12
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
    Reputation: Shayne's Avatar
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    DENIED

    Next issue
    *** --- *** --- ***

  13. #13
    mtbr member
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    No.

  14. #14
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    lol!

    This is like a monthly parole hearing for Manson and friends.

  15. #15
    Master of the Face Plant
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    We don't want the forum title to discourage anyone from posting here. That is Rumphy's job.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  16. #16
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    He's gotten soft in his old age. He hasn't made a single comment yet in the headset thread.

  17. #17
    the new Gilbert Grape
    Reputation: laffeaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    We don't want the forum title to discourage anyone from posting here. That is Rumphy's job.
    Classic!
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  18. #18
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Classic!
    Oooooh.... What do you mean by that term, exactly?

  19. #19
    TrinityRiverKerplunk
    Reputation: unicrown junkie's Avatar
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    I think the title is OK considered we keep up with currently made stuff for us VRC old farts. Like SOMA, they have a pedal out that looks great for old-school riders, and hell if it doesn't have some Suntour heritage then I don't know what does anymore.

    Is '95 the cutoff point? I am alright with that, but I would rather see 92 or earlier. It's almost like 8spd is the cutoff point for me.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  20. #20
    Master of the Face Plant
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Oooooh.... What do you mean by that term, exactly?
    Nice!
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  21. #21
    VRC Hound
    Reputation: bushpig's Avatar
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    I don't like change.

  22. #22
    artistic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushpig View Post
    I don't like change.
    that's why i still have canti brakes.
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  23. #23
    VRC Illuminati
    Reputation: Rumpfy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    We don't want the forum title to discourage anyone from posting here. That is Rumphy's job.
    Apparently I haven't done it well enough.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com

    Wanted: Syncros 27.2 x 425 seatpost, 26.8 x 400 IRD seatpost

  24. #24
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcdesigns View Post
    Can we please remove Retro from the forums title and maybe Classic too?
    Oh...and no.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com

    Wanted: Syncros 27.2 x 425 seatpost, 26.8 x 400 IRD seatpost

  25. #25
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    I was into mountain biking in the early 80's which makes me "vintage", however I still like to ride my old bikes which makes me "classic", however I sometimes mix in some cool new parts which makes me "retro"....WTF!

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