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  1. #1
    Stokeless Asshat
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    The end of an era?

    Or is 25.4-26.0 dead?

    I just noticed that Thomson is no longer making 25.4 or 26.0 stems. If they are I can't find it on their site and none of their bars are offered in 25.4 or 26.0. I'm a big fan of their products but this just flat p!sses me off. Who should I be mad at? The industry or the consumer?
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  2. #2
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    I think they stopped making the 26.0 a while ago. I remember looking for one last year or so and they were hard to find. When I had to get another road bar this year, I actually went with a 31.8 clamping diameter because there were just more options and I can use the stem for road or mtn.

    There still seems to be a lot fo 25.4 mm floating around. Maybe they're too busy with wheel sizes.

  3. #3
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    Meh, just makes our stuff cooler.
    Harder to find but cooler

  4. #4
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    What bothers me is i can't find presta tubes at the LBS cause they are too busy stocking on 27.5 and 29. The planned obsolescence on the bicycle industry makes me a staunch retrogrouch.

  5. #5
    GMF
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    I kind of get the move to 31.8 - standard between road and mountain, stiffer (is this really a problem for most people?). It does seem goofy to have such a big bulge in the middle.

    I was also like "whatever" about 29ers. Sure... put fat tires on a cross bike. Cool. Big wheels for big people. Sounds good. But the 27.5 just seems stupid and blatant marketing to drum up sales. Business props to Kirk Pacenti for singlehandedly pushing that standard, even if it is an abomination :-p.

    But i guess you can look at it this way - it is like experiencing the birth of mountain biking all over again, where not much worked with other stuff. Yay.

  6. #6
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    It's like cottered cranks, freewheels, triple cranks, flexy caliper brakes, etc. They've all been replaced by stronger, better or stiffer.

    I agree with you on the 27.5 GMF. Why another rim, tire, fork, etc for a tire that's really only 1" bigger than the 26? But I do have a set mounted right now and I must say it's a very nice all around size. I think 26 will go away probably on the high end stuff. I think even DH bikes will be 27.5 soon.

  7. #7
    GMF
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    Dude you just have a fear of commitment. 36 is where its at.


  8. #8
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    Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

    Turns out, they were wrong.

    31.8 was simply NOT stiff and light enough.

    I present, 35mm.

    Race Face 2013

    WTF?

    I love me some good industry jargon fappery too......

    "Your favourite bars just got bigger, longer and lighter, Go figure? The magic of 35, believe the hype. Increasing the bar diameter to 35 allows us to shave material from the bar resulting in a dramatic reduction in overall weight while retaining the proven stiffness and performance Race Face bars are known for. NEW Superlow 10mm rise, slam that cockpit. Get flatbar cockpit height with the comfort and good looks of a riser bar. 760mm full width for increased control without sacrificing weight."

    God this crap makes me ill. Think I need a new job.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  9. #9
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    When I cut more than 200mm off that bar it will be even lighter still.

    And 180g for an XC bar? That's portly. I hate to wonder what last years model was that had a dramatic weight savings to reach this mark.
    *** --- *** --- ***

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

    Turns out, they were wrong.

    31.8 was simply NOT stiff and light enough.

    I present, 35mm.

    Race Face 2013

    WTF?

    I love me some good industry jargon fappery too......

    "Your favourite bars just got bigger, longer and lighter, Go figure? The magic of 35, believe the hype. Increasing the bar diameter to 35 allows us to shave material from the bar resulting in a dramatic reduction in overall weight while retaining the proven stiffness and performance Race Face bars are known for. NEW Superlow 10mm rise, slam that cockpit. Get flatbar cockpit height with the comfort and good looks of a riser bar. 760mm full width for increased control without sacrificing weight."

    God this crap makes me ill. Think I need a new job.
    BOth sizes are wrong: we need 33.3 stem and bars. anything else is wrong. From first experience i tell you it has all the benefits from 31.8 and 35mm. Giant anounced all their bikes will be 33.3 while thomson stops production of old inneficient standards. mtbr is launcing a new subforum: 33.3.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    It's like cottered cranks, freewheels, triple cranks, flexy caliper brakes, etc. They've all been replaced by stronger, better or stiffer.

    I agree with you on the 27.5 GMF. Why another rim, tire, fork, etc for a tire that's really only 1" bigger than the 26? But I do have a set mounted right now and I must say it's a very nice all around size. I think 26 will go away probably on the high end stuff. I think even DH bikes will be 27.5 soon.
    WE won't find presta tubes, only schrader. Want a light tire for your favorite condition? No way.. pay twice and don't complain on having 5 tires to chose from. meanwhile we gained what? Planned obsolescence is obscene.
    Try to build a rim brake mtb these days.. vees are the best choice still fro a lot of people and should be for a lot more. Lighter, simpler, better... but no: the standard is discs.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

    Turns out, they were wrong.

    31.8 was simply NOT stiff and light enough.

    I present, 35mm.
    Wow! Maybe for the extreme downhillers that jump off of roof tops and slide down cliffs this might make sense. But for the rest of us, really?

    The only difference that I've noticed between a 25.4 and a 31.8 bar is that the 31.8mm bar is slightly heavier. I like that there is a "standard" bar size that fits road and mountain, but 25.4, 25.8 or 26.0 would have been fine for 99% of the riders. Downhills and sprinters (those who can put out 1500 watts) probably do need a stronger bar, but making everyone switch to accomm0date the few makes little sense (that is unless your goal is to make money instead of doing what makes sense).
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    that is unless your goal is to make money instead of doing what makes sense
    I think that about sums it up.

  14. #14
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    When was it not this way?
    It seems like generation after generation we lash out against an industry that has always been all "it's only smellz".

  15. #15
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    We b!tched about 1 1/8', 1 1/4", threadless, aluminum frames, carbon, suspension, V's, disc, 29", 650b, overseas production, Camel Backs, helmets, tubeless, tig, computers, purple, tapered steer tubes and worst of all, The Marzocchi Girls.. ect..ect..ect. Look were it's gotten us.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    WE won't find presta tubes, only schrader. Want a light tire for your favorite condition? No way.. pay twice and don't complain on having 5 tires to chose from. meanwhile we gained what? Planned obsolescence is obscene.
    Try to build a rim brake mtb these days.. vees are the best choice still fro a lot of people and should be for a lot more. Lighter, simpler, better... but no: the standard is discs.
    I have no idea what the proliferation of schrader valves have to do with 650b but I'm sure someone will come up with a good solution.

    V brake bike? Easy. Try getting a new cotter pin for your old school 1x cottered crankset at your local shop!

    Bikes and standards move on. End of story. If it didn't, there would be no retro grouches. Be thankful you have a cause to fight for.

  17. #17
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    I'm still riding (and will be racing this weekend) a 1" headset on several bikes. Never had one fail bad enough to stop a ride.

    My old body will "fail" long before any of my old bikes...

  18. #18
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    We b!tched about ... and worst of all, The Marzocchi Girls..
    I have never once complained about them.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  19. #19
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    Get off my lawn...

  20. #20
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    It was those with "delicate sensibilities" that did. That's obviously not you or I.
    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    I have never once complained about them.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    BOth sizes are wrong: we need 33.3 stem and bars. anything else is wrong. From first experience i tell you it has all the benefits from 31.8 and 35mm. Giant anounced all their bikes will be 33.3 while thomson stops production of old inneficient standards. mtbr is launcing a new subforum: 33.3.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  22. #22
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    I must be in the minority but I think there's room for everything and let economics take care of what's not working for the world mountain biking community.

    I like the merging of handlebar clamp diameters. Finally! I agree with GMF that it looks chunky but it is what it is.

    It will be interesting to see what happens with headsets and bbs. Disc brakes are awesome. I can't set them up or anything but I like how they work.

    Don't get me wrong, I love my old bikes. I just think variety ain't all that bad. The one thing that worries me are tires. Lots of things last a long, long time but tires aren't one of them. Commence hoarding 26" tires....

  23. #23
    artistic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    I must be in the minority but I think there's room for everything and let economics take care of what's not working for the world mountain biking community.

    I like the merging of handlebar clamp diameters. Finally! I agree with GMF that it looks chunky but it is what it is.

    It will be interesting to see what happens with headsets and bbs. Disc brakes are awesome. I can't set them up or anything but I like how they work.

    Don't get me wrong, I love my old bikes. I just think variety ain't all that bad. The one thing that worries me are tires. Lots of things last a long, long time but tires aren't one of them. Commence hoarding 26" tires....
    I can't find brake pads for my rim brakes.. at least not on the LBS. Well, so the "support your LBS" line is not for me.I could not care for the industry reinventing head tubes and BBs every 3 yrs but when it comes to tires and rims i will pick up a fight. If i have to say good bye to 26in i will embrace CX, 700c wheels and say good bye to mountain biking. MOuntain biking has been shooting it's own feet forever. The reason it took the streets everywhere it's because it's an all terrain bike that makes us feel like kids again. It's nor because someone can jump 20 ft in Vancouver BC.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    I have no idea what the proliferation of schrader valves have to do with 650b but I'm sure someone will come up with a good solution.
    The LBS says stocking on high end 29er tubes, 27.5 tubes, road bikes tubes plus cheap 26in tubes is enough. No more presta 26in.

  25. #25
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    I can't find brake pads for my rim brakes.. at least not on the LBS. Well, so the "support your LBS" line is not for me.I could not care for the industry reinventing head tubes and BBs every 3 yrs but when it comes to tires and rims i will pick up a fight. If i have to say good bye to 26in i will embrace CX, 700c wheels and say good bye to mountain biking. MOuntain biking has been shooting it's own feet forever. The reason it took the streets everywhere it's because it's an all terrain bike that makes us feel like kids again. It's nor because someone can jump 20 ft in Vancouver BC.
    We need to send you a care package every year with brake pads and presta tubes. It's ridiculous that you can't get those things near you (although I think you're not in the US). Do you travel much? Stop by a LBS and grab those things and throw them in your luggage. They are everywhere here in the US.

  26. #26
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    My only issue is finding road bike tubes that have valve stems that aren't 80mm long.

    And as far as the demise of tubes (of any size) I'd focus on tubeless technology (i.e. Stan's NoTubes) as the culprit. None of my modern mountain bikes use tubes. I'd not be surprised if the LBS stopped carrying mountain bikes tubes at all. Tubes are for vintage bikes.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker
    The LBS says stocking on high end 29er tubes, 27.5 tubes, road bikes tubes plus cheap 26in tubes is enough. No more presta 26in.
    They have shopping on the internet now. I know, it's wild. Check it out.

    Seriously, translating your earlier post... because you can't find parts to keep your 26" bikes going, you're quitting mountain biking? How has MTB been shooting itself in the foot? By offering lighter, stronger products that are easy to ride thus getting more people on the trail?

    The truth is, if we only had Wicked Fat Chances and Ibis Mojos to ride, there would be a hell of a lot less people buying bikes, riding bikes, promoting races, advocating and lobbying for trail access, etc. Moving forward is a good thing. Get yourself a modern bike, ride your favorite trails faster with ease, and take your relics out once and awhile to reminisce.


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  28. #28
    artistic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameybrook View Post
    They have shopping on the internet now. I know, it's wild. Check it out.

    Really??? and you didn't read anything else i've written but thought you could be funny... yes, there is shopping on the inrnet and smartasses on mtbr! wow!!!

    Seriously, translating your earlier post... because you can't find parts to keep your 26" bikes going, you're quitting mountain biking?
    Yes.

    How has MTB been shooting itself in the foot? By offering lighter, stronger products that are easy to ride thus getting more people on the trail?
    No... by building disposable, trendy, only suitable for this or that bicycles and then complaining no one buys.. yaawwwn.



    The truth is, if we only had Wicked Fat Chances and Ibis Mojos to ride, there would be a hell of a lot less people buying bikes, riding bikes, promoting races, advocating and lobbying for trail access, etc. Moving forward is a good thing. Get yourself a modern bike, ride your favorite trails faster with ease, and take your relics out once and awhile to reminisce.

    Wrong. There would be the same people who want to ride bikes.
    You are so wrong while pretending to be smart....guess what? you are not the first. At least you are in a large group. Read my replies above if you care.

  29. #29
    artistic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    My only issue is finding road bike tubes that have valve stems that aren't 80mm long.

    And as far as the demise of tubes (of any size) I'd focus on tubeless technology (i.e. Stan's NoTubes) as the culprit. None of my modern mountain bikes use tubes. I'd not be surprised if the LBS stopped carrying mountain bikes tubes at all. Tubes are for vintage bikes.
    Tubeless is for dry, thorn infested terrain.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    Don't want to glue tires to rims.
    Just making sure this part doesn't get missed by everyone


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  31. #31
    velocipede technician
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    Any shop that doesn't carry a standard 26" presta tube, doesn't deserve to exist.

    And that's not from a rider perspective, it's just bad business

    On topic: the countdown to posts about a bike being vrc because it doesn't have an oversized bar just began
    looking for 20-21" P team

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    Any shop that doesn't carry a standard 26" presta tube, doesn't deserve to exist.
    I agree... and then how many people make bad business decisions everyday? And how many of them put the blame on consummers?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    On topic: the countdown to posts about a bike being vrc because it doesn't have an oversized bar just began
    Believe it or not I still ride a bike that does not have a tapered head tube.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameybrook View Post
    Just making sure this part doesn't get missed by everyone
    Another smart ass post which is actually pretty stupid; tubeless technology like stan's involves some kind of "glueing" the tire to the rim. I call the sealant some kind of glue.
    The trick is to be vintage and smart..not old and stupid.

  35. #35
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    tubeless technology like stan's involves some king of glueing the tire to the rim.
    Nope. Same tire as you use with a tube, but you use a scoop of latex instead of a tube. Add more latex every year or so. I even got this to (kind of) work on my CX bike with Mavic Open Pros. And if the latex fails, you can use a tube (I carry one just in case).

    In the autumn we get lots of "goat head" thorns in my area. Riding with sealant saves me from having to patch tubes after every ride. It's one of the innovations to come along.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  36. #36
    velocipede technician
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Believe it or not I still ride a bike that does not have a tapered head tube.
    Dinosaur!

    And I still have the tools and parts to service that bike. I like the way it keeps my store open
    looking for 20-21" P team

  37. #37
    artistic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Nope. Same tire as you use with a tube, but you use a scoop of latex instead of a tube. Add more latex every year or so. I even got this to (kind of) work on my CX bike with Mavic Open Pros. And if the latex fails, you can use a tube (I carry one just in case).

    In the autumn we get lots of "goat head" thorns in my area. Riding with sealant saves me from having to patch tubes after every ride. It's one of the innovations to come along.
    Exactly: same tires but used w/ a sealant, a goo that "glues" it somehow to the rim. I would ride tubeless if i had a terrain that called for it. When I was in Mexico, tubeless were a necessity.. here in Rio de Janewiro, there is no reason to ride them.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Believe it or not I still ride a bike that does not have a tapered head tube.
    Klein had tapered head tubes in 1994

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMRTIN View Post
    Klein had tapered head tubes in 1994
    And the descender had a disc brake

    If you look up quickly you can just catch a glimpse of the point
    looking for 20-21" P team

  40. #40
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    UST tubeless works fine with nothing. Sealant helps, but it's by no means required.


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    And the descender had a disc brake

    If you look up quickly you can just catch a glimpse of the point
    I missed it

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    My only issue is finding road bike tubes that have valve stems that aren't 80mm long.

    And as far as the demise of tubes (of any size) I'd focus on tubeless technology (i.e. Stan's NoTubes) as the culprit. None of my modern mountain bikes use tubes. I'd not be surprised if the LBS stopped carrying mountain bikes tubes at all. Tubes are for vintage bikes.

    That is funny shit right there. For every bike shop in the world, tubes are their #1 sku.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameybrook View Post
    They have shopping on the internet now. I know, it's wild. Check it out.

    Seriously, translating your earlier post... because you can't find parts to keep your 26" bikes going, you're quitting mountain biking? How has MTB been shooting itself in the foot? By offering lighter, stronger products that are easy to ride thus getting more people on the trail?

    The truth is, if we only had Wicked Fat Chances and Ibis Mojos to ride, there would be a hell of a lot less people buying bikes, riding bikes, promoting races, advocating and lobbying for trail access, etc. Moving forward is a good thing. Get yourself a modern bike, ride your favorite trails faster with ease, and take your relics out once and awhile to reminisce.
    I'd like to think that most of us see the 80's or early 90's - with their 25.4 or 22.2 bars - as a high water mark of mountain bike function and/or aesthetics.

    Hopefully more and than or.

    I'd take my Fat across Africa tomorrow. That is the beginning and end of the functional argument for me.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats View Post
    I'd like to think that most of us see the 80's or early 90's - with their 25.4 or 22.2 bars - as a high water mark of mountain bike function and/or aesthetics.

    Hopefully more and than or.

    I'd take my Fat across Africa tomorrow. That is the beginning and end of the functional argument for me.
    Have a great trip and I hope you take lots of photos. And also, a good point in that this world is filled with 26" bikes and if you're going touring, it's better to bring the old stuff.

    Stay safe and travel well!

  45. #45
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    The arguments behind new standards are questionable. When i read that 26 wheels are instable and do this or that, i doubt those who say it have ever ridden bikes w/ different geometries: long chainstays ride different than short chainstays.
    Sure, a 29 wheel will be very different and i am sure there IS in fact a perceivable difference in 26 x 27.5. otoh it is clear that having 3 wheel diamters is less practical so how many shops selling 26,27.5 and 29 bikes, rims tubes and tires in.. say 5 years?
    My bikes are 15/20yrs old but anyone who just bought a 6 grand 29er may be a bit disappointed when magazines declare in 4 years that 29ers dead to the superiority of 27.5.
    Numbers, numbers, numbers..

    As far as brakes.. i am sure hydraulic brakes are superior to v brakes .. i am also sure they are more expensive and complex to work on. I believe one of the bicycle strengths is how easy it is for a rider to work on his own machine. hydraulics may be stronger when breaking but weaker as part of the big picture.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Have a great trip and I hope you take lots of photos. And also, a good point in that this world is filled with 26" bikes and if you're going touring, it's better to bring the old stuff.

    Stay safe and travel well!
    I think I see what you did there...

  47. #47
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    ActiveVRC is my style. I love riding old-school, well still new to me. The one advantage of Evolution is that it sure does "point" better than 1", but I still only ride 1" rigid.

    I can see the larger wheel sizes becoming more prevalent as humans themselves get larger, which we are.

    But 26"works great for my tastes.

    That said, if I ran into a boatload of money I would be ordering a custom 26" YBB in a heartbeat, w/u-brake posts. Hard to get a shock w/short travel and be old-school to match that actually works OK.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  48. #48
    mtbr member
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    Wipe my bum!

  49. #49
    Phobia of petting zoos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    And as far as the demise of tubes (of any size) I'd focus on tubeless technology (i.e. Stan's NoTubes) as the culprit. None of my modern mountain bikes use tubes. I'd not be surprised if the LBS stopped carrying mountain bikes tubes at all. Tubes are for vintage bikes.
    Yeah, one of my LBS ran out of 26" x 2.1 presta tubes and didn't bother restocking on them because "everyone rides tubeless now". I asked "what about when you tear the sidewall and the sealant doesn't work and you need to put a tube in?" and they just looked at each other and shrugged.

    Mind you, some of the tubeless conversions I have result in snapped tyre levers and swear words that would shock a prison warden so i have no idea how I'd pull the tyre on the trailside.

    On another note, I just built up a new road bike, carbon fibre, 11sp (mechanical) Campagnolo but the frame has cabling options for electronic shifting, internal headset, BB30 etc, came in at 15lbs with pedals and bottle cage. I thought "yeah, that's cutting edge, especially for me" and by the time I had packed the tools away I discovered that disc brakes have finally made it over to road bikes. 2 weeks old and it's redundant already... sigh...

    Grumps

  50. #50
    Stokeless Asshat
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    Jan 2004
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    Not redundant Grumps. You now own a 15 Lb. vintage road bike.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

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