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  1. #1
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    Cool Fat, but what type of Fat is it...Fat experts, please help

    Hello everyone

    I found this one in a local ad, and rushed out to get it. The seller was great, and had an impressive Fat collection, but even he was unsure as to what kind of Fat this was. I hope he remembers me when he decides to sell another :wink:

    After confirming them to be G.P. Wilson dropouts, (with Jeff from firstflight- his site has a 1990 with these same dropouts), the bike was mine. Also has original black wicked fork with white splatter pain...very cool.

    The pics were taken on my first ride; it has mostly original parts (all XT groupset, including the headset, except for the shifters), making it quite period correct for a 1989/1990, but it does need a few changes, (the handlebars/shifters/pedals).

    Not too much work to do to finish this project. Please give me feedback on ideas,parts, things I missed or got wrong, etc....

    Are the decals right for the year? Is the year correct? The serial number: 100910

    The G.P. Wilson dropouts were on the team bike around 1989/1990...I didn't think they made use of the G.P. dropouts in 92/93...but I'm not sure.

    I've posted this bike on Retrobike, and members Scant and Ameybrook have said it looks like a Fat respray, not a wicked lite, since wicked lites were made later than 89/90, and it doesn't appear to be a wicked either, but perhaps a Team....

    I'm now posting here and on fatcogs in hopes that someone might have a better idea as to this bike's history...or maybe even a prior owner pops up??? it could happen

    Thanks, and now the pics:

























    G.P. Wilson dropouts (rear) the front fork has them as well

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEraMTB

    I got nuthin', but that's drop dead gorgeous.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  3. #3
    Strangelove
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    Looks like a mid to late 80's FAT CHANCE to me. Drop outs, gussets and lower cable routing all look like my 87. Probably went back to FCC for a refurb sometime in the mid '90s as the paint looks pretty close to factory metalica.

    Very nice looking bike BTW

    Si

  4. #4
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    For those that have never seen these uber-cool dropouts here's a pic of my set.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
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    One of the zeroes in your serial number is probably a C. With that gusseting, it should be a re-painted and decaled 1990 Team Comp.

    Nice score. Please sell it to me ;>

  6. #6
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    Its a tall one. I think mainly has hit it on the head with his guess. That paint wasn't an option when it was made. Think that came about 93.

  7. #7
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    Frame was painted and that original fork was set aside for suspension. There is no way on earth someone found a spare Fat TC fork (matching GP Wilson drop outs) with enough steerer tube to fit a frame that size. If they did they should have played the lottery that day.

    I'd bet it all that your fork is the original color for that bike.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    I got nuthin', but that's drop dead gorgeous.
    Thanks man..I can stare at them for more than a little while.

    Looks like a couple guys below have got it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr S
    Looks like a mid to late 80's FAT CHANCE to me. Drop outs, gussets and lower cable routing all look like my 87. Probably went back to FCC for a refurb sometime in the mid '90s as the paint looks pretty close to factory metalica.

    Very nice looking bike BTW

    Si
    Hi Si; thanks, and you are on to something. The Metalic chameleon is spot on, so if it wasn't FCC, then it had to be someone directly associated with them. I've seen some awfal attempts at this type of fade- they end up looking two-tone. This does not. Just wish it didn't have that wicked lite decal under the clear coat

    Quote Originally Posted by themanmonkey
    For those that have never seen these uber-cool dropouts here's a pic of my set.
    Thanks for posting that...perhaps I can interest you in reading a bit of the history I've managed to locate on G.P. Wilson and his desirable dropouts. Here's a bit of copy and paste, along with a link to read more:

    On a related topic - those GP Wilson dropouts were damn nice looking bits of
    gear - saw them on a Chris Chance once in the late 80's. Is there any
    pictoral archives on the web of dropout designs? I'm historically
    challenged, as you can tell, and feeling nostalgic.


    Warwick Gresswell
    Owner, and wacky designer/inventor of a
    dime a dozen variety.

    re:
    Dear Hoppy,
    The problem with GP (Buster Wilson) was that like my Dad, he only started
    building again after he retired.
    Buster not only built really wonderful dropouts, which I used several score of
    in my custom frames, but also made a lot of experimental stuff, including paper
    thin dropouts and paper thin lugs.Buster always used me as his R&D testbed."See
    if this will work or see if you can use it." I can't to this day remember if I
    every paid him for all the myriad of parts that he provided to me all those
    years.

    They were very thin and indestructible and more than rivaled anything from the
    world market or the newly emerging products of Henry James Folson and
    dramatically less than 1/2 the weight but most were never put into production.

    George Buster Wilson was a very gregarious human being, a close family friend
    and in his own personal bike club venue, generated a number of very fine
    handling ultra lightweight bicycles. Buster never sought any promotion and only
    worked his art within a very small portion of the bicycling community in San
    Diego County.

    It was long after his passing away that people were starting to realize what a
    remarkable engineer/craftsman/and bicycle genius that he was. His practical
    approach to bicycle alignment which was the result of the discovery of many
    decades of friendship with my father and him discussing the inadequacies of jig
    tooling for bicycle frame construction as compared to the aircraft and other
    items that they both built in their day jobs.
    Buster developed a jig which has never been fully understood or been copied or
    rivaled since which allowed the operator to construct a perfectly aligned frame
    each and every time, completely eliminating cold setting.

    In regards to the dropouts, the one vertical dropout that did reach semi
    production level made from 17/4 ph was a perfectly practical dropout that was
    not only virtually indestructible was was very lightweight. As much as I love
    Art Stump, his dropouts pale as far as usability to those that Buster made.
    Both of these men were very close friends. Buster being Buster and Art being
    Bud. Their lives have paralleled for many decades, at one point in time they
    had machine shops making aircraft parts right next door to each other. A
    different time, a different life, kinda of like what you and I enjoy when we go
    out back to feed the tiger.
    Freddy Parr


    Here's the link, (lots of unrelated stuff, but it's a source for what I just posted):
    http://search.bikelist.org/beta/View...id=14104#14104

    another link for a better G.P. Wilson droputs being offered, (don't know if it's still current), by Vincent Dominguez Cycles:
    http://www.dominguezcycles.com/pages...s.php?cat_id=4

    along with a PDF file of their specs and installation instructions:
    http://www.dominguezcycles.com/produ...c/gpwilson.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by chefmiguel
    Its a tall one. I think mainly has hit it on the head with his guess. That paint wasn't an option when it was made. Think that came about 93.
    Yes, Mainlyfats is the man

    I think the metalic chameleon was even later than 93.

    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats
    One of the zeroes in your serial number is probably a C. With that gusseting, it should be a re-painted and decaled 1990 Team Comp.

    Nice score. Please sell it to me ;>
    Yes! With everything else I've been able to find, including ebay auctions of team comps, and examing pics, this is the best guess; I would even go so far as to say, it's better than a guess/theory- this is the correct answer. It's a C and not a 0.

    I owe you won, but I'm afraid it's not for sale. It's a bit large for me, thus the low seatpost, so I am/was considering trading it with another member for a smaller Fat Chance. Just need to make it a fair trade.
    If the trade doesn't work out for whatever reason, I'm keeping it as a hybrid/road type bike since that's the only way I can make use of it- I just don't see myself selling it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats
    Frame was painted and that original fork was set aside for suspension. There is no way on earth someone found a spare Fat TC fork (matching GP Wilson drop outs) with enough steerer tube to fit a frame that size. If they did they should have played the lottery that day.

    I'd bet it all that your fork is the original color for that bike.
    Right again...
    Arghhhh! I wish the frame had been left black with white splatter like the fork...with some neon accents

    I love the metalic chameleon...but it just doesn't fit this Fat.

    Thanks again, everyone.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEraMTB
    Thanks for posting that...perhaps I can interest you in reading a bit of the history I've managed to locate on G.P. Wilson and his desirable dropouts. Here's a bit of copy and paste, along with a link to read more:
    Just so folks know the information wasn't from Warwick, it's from Freddy Parr who's a friend of mine and knew Buster waaaaaay back. I think I may have gotten those dropouts from Fred. If you want more info just drop a line on Freddy and he'll talk your ear off about the old days and guys like Buster, Art Stump, and Mario Confente.

  10. #10
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    ManMonkey, I never knew Fat used those drops...AFAIK, Vincent is still selling them. That in my book makes this fat quite a find, and sets it apart from the rest. Nice find Golden Era!

    Any pics of the jig that Wilson used?

    -Schmitty-

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEraMTB
    If the trade doesn't work out for whatever reason, I'm keeping it as a hybrid/road type bike since that's the only way I can make use of it- I just don't see myself selling it.
    XL Fat Team Comp into a hybrid? No rack/fender mounts on those dropouts, so I hope your swap works out!

  12. #12
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    Where is NY Mike when you need him?

    I think most Wicked Lites had top tube cable routing, to compete with the Yo's.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmitty
    ManMonkey, I never knew Fat used those drops...AFAIK, Vincent is still selling them. That in my book makes this fat quite a find, and sets it apart from the rest. Nice find Golden Era!

    -Schmitty-
    Thanks!

    Like I stated earlier, the person I bought this from had quite an impressive collection of Fats, from an early Fat Ti to a Slim chance. This is the one he was willing to let go of to thin his herd.

    Quote Originally Posted by themanmonkey
    Just so folks know the information wasn't from Warwick, it's from Freddy Parr who's a friend of mine and knew Buster waaaaaay back. I think I may have gotten those dropouts from Fred. If you want more info just drop a line on Freddy and he'll talk your ear off about the old days and guys like Buster, Art Stump, and Mario Confente.
    Thanks for that clarification...love reading these stories; it's like MTB anthropology. I just didn't want to quote the multiple conversations entirely, so I provided the link.

    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats
    XL Fat Team Comp into a hybrid? No rack/fender mounts on those dropouts, so I hope your swap works out!
    I know it's blasphemous, and I'm aware it does not have mounts for fenders or other touring purposes..this is why I used the word "type". Basically, I would use a set of skinnies, shorter stem with higher rise, and drop down bars...then tour nyc all summer long on it.

    I took it on a trail, (I'm 5'9", and the only thing that has allowed me to ride this bike is that I have a 6'3" wingspan), but it's just too large for me to appreciate it the way I do my other Fats. I've ridden it downtown a couple of times, and it rides beautifully. I just don't want to sell it; cash isn't that important...that said...no worries, I'm looking to keep it in the community, trading it for another 80's fat with some cool parts. If the trade works out, it will be a win win for me and the taller member...plus it looks like he will finish this project with a few better parts. If the trade doesn't work out for whatever reason, then I will gladly fit the team comp with a set of black cook bros cranks as was intended, along with xt thumbies or suntour pro xc thumbies, a Fat City handle bar, and salsa stem

    Quote Originally Posted by KDXdog
    Where is NY Mike when you need him?

    I think most Wicked Lites had top tube cable routing, to compete with the Yo's.
    It's a Team Comp, and I've spoken with fatMike regarding this bike a couple months back when I first bought it- good guy; thanks.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmitty
    ManMonkey, I never knew Fat used those drops...AFAIK, Vincent is still selling them. That in my book makes this fat quite a find, and sets it apart from the rest. Nice find Golden Era!

    Any pics of the jig that Wilson used?
    Yea, Vincent acquired the molds a few years back and started reproducing them. Freddy, Dave Bohm, and myself were working on getting some machined versions going when Vincent started selling them.

    Most of those guys didn't really use jigs as we know them today. Guys like Buster and Art Stump only built a handful of frames and used bottom-up fixtures that were put together and then usually re-purposed for something else later. They weren't really builders so much as mechanics and machinists that did everything.

    Back to the Fat. I too had never seen a Fat with those dropouts before. My '91 YO! certainly didn't. Those dropouts were rare as hens teeth by then I do know. I'm sure some old builder buddy of Chris' found a pile and sold them and Chris used them.

    Now I have a new Holy Grail bike to add to the list, damn.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanmonkey

    Back to the Fat. I too had never seen a Fat with those dropouts before. My '91 YO! certainly didn't. Those dropouts were rare as hens teeth by then I do know. I'm sure some old builder buddy of Chris' found a pile and sold them and Chris used them.

    Now I have a new Holy Grail bike to add to the list, damn.
    I hadn't seen one like this either. When i started asking around over on retrobike, Jeff of firstflight pointed me towards his 1990 Fat Chance here:
    http://www.mombat.org/1990_Fat_Chance.htm

    This the only other one I've seen with the G.P. Wilson dropouts.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanmonkey
    For those that have never seen these uber-cool dropouts here's a pic of my set.
    Those aren't quite them, unless that's shop dirt on there and not rust. The Team Comp dropouts were supposed to be stainless steel. They were silver-brazed.

  17. #17
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    No they are stainless and were always, Buster was very specific about that. They've been knocking around with other rusty non-stainless frame parts for many years. Stainless is is not rust proof it's rust resistant. Wiki will help.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanmonkey
    No they are stainless and were always, Buster was very specific about that. They've been knocking around with other rusty non-stainless frame parts for many years. Stainless is is not rust proof it's rust resistant. Wiki will help.
    Yep, stainless is a misnomer, though they do hold up quite nicely. I'll have to take a couple pics of them without the wheels.

  19. #19
    Fat City Michael
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDXdog
    Where is NY Mike when you need him?

    I think most Wicked Lites had top tube cable routing, to compete with the Yo's.
    I've been busy moving my family into a new larger apartment where I now have an office area with 2 Fat Chances hanging on the wall to the left of me

    Sounds like everyone's collective knowledge here have already figured out the Fat mystery, that's most likely a repainted Team Comp, especially with those special drop-outs...It was really good learn about G.P. Wilson-Very Interesting stuff!
    My 1987 Fat Chance Team Comp (the pink one that I recently sold) didn't have those drop-outs, as I think that they began using them in like 1989 or 1990 but I've seen a few bikes that were re-painted in the mid 1990s that got "Wicked Lite" decals even if they weren't "Lite", as they seem to have run out of plain "Wicked Fat Chance" decals for a period of time so that's not the first time that I've seen a mis-labled repainted Fat Chance...

    Nice bike by the way, just a tad too larger for me though...
    FATMIKEYNYC

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanmonkey
    Yea, Vincent acquired the molds a few years back and started reproducing them. Freddy, Dave Bohm, and myself were working on getting some machined versions going when Vincent started selling them.

    Most of those guys didn't really use jigs as we know them today. Guys like Buster and Art Stump only built a handful of frames and used bottom-up fixtures that were put together and then usually re-purposed for something else later. They weren't really builders so much as mechanics and machinists that did everything.

    Back to the Fat. I too had never seen a Fat with those dropouts before. My '91 YO! certainly didn't. Those dropouts were rare as hens teeth by then I do know. I'm sure some old builder buddy of Chris' found a pile and sold them and Chris used them.

    Now I have a new Holy Grail bike to add to the list, damn.
    There's something in that link to the list archives that mentions a very special jig he made that was evidently both the pajamas and the knees all in one. From what I gathered he brazed the entire frame in it.

    -Schmitty-

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    I've been busy moving my family into a new larger apartment where I now have an office area with 2 Fat Chances hanging on the wall to the left of me

    Sounds like everyone's collective knowledge here have already figured out the Fat mystery, that's most likely a repainted Team Comp, especially with those special drop-outs...It was really good learn about G.P. Wilson-Very Interesting stuff!
    My 1987 Fat Chance Team Comp (the pink one that I recently sold) didn't have those drop-outs, as I think that they began using them in like 1989 or 1990 but I've seen a few bikes that were re-painted in the mid 1990s that got "Wicked Lite" decals even if they weren't "Lite", as they seem to have run out of plain "Wicked Fat Chance" decals for a period of time so that's not the first time that I've seen a mis-labled repainted Fat Chance...

    Nice bike by the way, just a tad too larger for me though...
    Thanks, Mike...congrats on the new place

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    My 1987 Fat Chance Team Comp (the pink one that I recently sold)

    The pink one in the official Fats thread???

    I would've bought it

    ah well...one day

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanmonkey
    Wiki will help.
    You use Wiki to remove rust? Was is that, some kind of paste?

  23. #23
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    Found this link to a pdf of a 1990 MTB magazine review of the 1990 Fat Chance Team Comp; it's a U.K. Magazine, and an interesting read:

    http://www.retrobike.net/gallery2/ma...g2_itemId=2273

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmitty
    There's something in that link to the list archives that mentions a very special jig he made that was evidently both the pajamas and the knees all in one. From what I gathered he brazed the entire frame in it.

    -Schmitty-
    Yea, it's what we call a bottom-up jig and is a base-plate holds the rear dropouts, BB shell, and headtube and the rest of it's open. It's similar to what motorcycle guys use. I actually started building on one when first building and they work OK. The thing was these guys would build the fixture and use it for a bit and then rob parts from it for some other project. Like I said these guys weren't really "framebuilders" they were mechanics and machinists who also liked bikes. When I interviewed Art Stump a few years back he had no idea how many frames he build, a dozen maybe. He had stacks of wheels and frames (other makers) and didn't even really consider himself a bike person. These guys who were mechanics were interested in bikes as a machine not as a bike. They would never call themselves bike riders or cyclists even if they used to race or toured all over the place.

    As a bike nut since birth it took me a long time to wrap my head around that mindset. Now I have enough other hobbies that I can kinda understand.

  25. #25
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    I'm sort in the same boat you are

    I picked up this 90 Team Comp, #08339TC, relying on the owners measurement of 20-21" C-C and when it arrived it measured 18". Add to that I payed $75.00 to have a LBS "professionally pack it", what a joke. Regardless it's too small I need at least 21", but here's some pics. It has the same Wilson dropouts you have and a Judy XC, XT components except for the crank and LX pedals. Started to replace cables and lost interest since I can't ride it.



    88 Mt.Goat Dlx, 86 MB1, 85 Ritchey, 91 Wicked, 93 Merlin, Rig, GT 98 AV,

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