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Thread: Araya RM-20s

  1. #1
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    Araya RM-20s

    I'm looking at this current auction on Ebay.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...TRK:MEBOFFX:IT

    I'm thinking the vintage of these are early 90's based on the XT 730,732 cassette and hubs. Is this correct? Also, are they any good!? I'm not as knowledgeable as I should be on rims.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    They were a top of the line rim at the time. The RM25 came out first, then the RM20.
    Chris

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    Another nice outing. Love the newbies!

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    Those are easily worth $450.

  5. #5
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    Not much of an outting though, that wheelset is spendy spendy spendy.

  6. #6
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    Tires are worth at least $125/ each...........
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike
    Another nice outing. Love the newbies!
    VRC would have better luck with people following their silly rules if they parsed them down to twenty odd bullet points, rather than having a week's worth of reading...

    The wheels look nice..

  8. #8
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    true!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    VRC would have better luck with people following their silly rules if they parsed them down to twenty odd bullet points, rather than having a week's worth of reading...

    The wheels look nice..

    Its a combination of the sticky at the top of the forum and common sense. A lot of times people have trouble with both.


    That said, BCNCH tends to overprice his stuff by leaps and bounds.
    -eric-

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    VRC would have better luck with people following their silly rules if they parsed them down to twenty odd bullet points, rather than having a week's worth of reading...

    The wheels look nice..
    reading is hard
    looking for 20-21" P team

  11. #11
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    That super expensive RM-20 wheelset is MUCH cleaner than my affordable RM-20 wheelset..... that is bronze "super hard anodized" with a 6 speed cassette that is for sale. Wait what?!......

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Its a combination of the sticky at the top of the forum and common sense. A lot of times people have trouble with both.


    That said, BCNCH tends to overprice his stuff by leaps and bounds.
    I think he goes a little high on tires, but everything else seems reasonable to me. I've bought from him before and the stuff is always top notch.

    I live in the middle of Canada and our cup isn't exactly overflowing with NOS XT stuff from the 80's. Maybe it's available cheaper where you are.

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    Ah, It's good to be the newb!

    I guess any link to ebay or craigs could be considered an out but I was really just trying to educate myself on some old parts.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hegstad1
    Ah, It's good to be the newb!

    I guess any link to ebay or craigs could be considered an out but I was really just trying to educate myself on some old parts.
    I wouldn't worry too much about it. As far as the rims go, those old Arayas are excellent. I have a pair that have held up to lots of abuse and the ano coating never oxidizes or pits. That set may be a bit over priced cosidering they don't come with the tires but they are pretty.
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  15. #15
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    You could have asked about rm-20s without the link. You can also do a search on this forum. It comes up a lot.

    sandmangts, the coating NEVER oxidizes or pits? that's odd. I've seen some that was.

  16. #16
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    Wow, I bought a set like that from him about a year ago for 1/2 that set's BIN
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  17. #17
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    I did a search, girlonbike, but I didn't find the info I was looking for.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hegstad1
    I did a search, girlonbike, but I didn't find the info I was looking for.
    Yes they are good. Those rims with that style sticker are from 90ish, maybe late 89?

    What other info do you need?
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

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    Thanks IF52. That's perfect info.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    Tires are worth at least $125/ each...........

    Auction says the tires aren't included. How do you figure those tires are worth 125 each? Those are Cousin's right?
    Built a pair with 24" RM-20's and XTR hubs about six months back and had $268 in the pair with no cassette and chain.
    Needed: 26.8mm XTR seatpost, blue GT/Grundig Jersey.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm1230126
    Auction says the tires aren't included. How do you figure those tires are worth 125 each? Those are Cousin's right?
    Built a pair with 24" RM-20's and XTR hubs about six months back and had $268 in the pair with no cassette and chain.
    I think he was kidding.

    The set I bought from BCNCH were NOS takeoffs from a Fisher of some flavor or other. I don't know where he drums up this stuff, but that seems to be what he sells a lot. So I'm gonna guess he has much less than that in these wheels.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollister
    reading is hard
    Have you ever seen me out anything, sugar booger? I was merely stating instead of complaining every time this happens, making your "rules" more accessible will help cut back on that happening.

    And unless you are a very serious collector, I don't really think not outing things is really common sense. Common sense might be sharing with other bike enthusiasts.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    Have you ever seen me out anything, sugar booger? I was merely stating instead of complaining every time this happens, making your "rules" more accessible will help cut back on that happening.

    And unless you are a very serious collector, I don't really think not outing things is really common sense. Common sense might be sharing with other bike enthusiasts.
    reading for comprehension is even harder
    looking for 20-21" P team

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollister
    reading for comprehension is even harder
    I know, and I feel for you.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats
    but everything else seems reasonable to me.
    I don't think I've seen him price a single thing reasonably. Not a single thing from him I've even considered bidding on due to silly stupid prices.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinguwin
    I don't think I've seen him price a single thing reasonably. Not a single thing from him I've even considered bidding on due to silly stupid prices.
    Well lucky you! Like I said, not a whole lot of NOS 22 year old XT stuff in these parts.

    Let's break it down though - assuming you can build your own wheels:

    Rims - They have to worth at least $40 each.
    Spokes - 0.50 each, say - $32
    Hubs - $100 doesn't seem unreasonable (I've paid more).
    Cassette - $30
    Chain - $10

    Math is hard, but isn't that about $252? Where have I overvalued?

  27. #27
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    People are totally cranky lately.

    And I think Pinguwin is talking about eBay prices in general. Generally, wheelsets don't seem to go for much these days. Frankly, some of BCNCH has listed some stuff as "NOS" and it has been loosely defined. I'm not going to list them all for you but you can check out all his completed auctions if you need actual proof. Calling something new when it's been mounted on a bike and removed is not exactly new. New should be sitting uninstalled on a rack or in back of a shop. That's my 2 cents.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike
    People are totally cranky lately.

    And I think Pinguwin is talking about eBay prices in general. Generally, wheelsets don't seem to go for much these days. Frankly, some of BCNCH has listed some stuff as "NOS" and it has been loosely defined. I'm not going to list them all for you but you can check out all his completed auctions if you need actual proof. Calling something new when it's been mounted on a bike and removed is not exactly new. New should be sitting uninstalled on a rack or in back of a shop. That's my 2 cents.
    I agree, if it has been mounted or a wrench has touched it you can't say it is NOS. I hate ordering parts that say NOS only to recieve them and find wrench marks.
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  29. #29
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    but he's including the pie plate....

  30. #30
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    RM 20's are nice if you want to hang a vintage bike on the wall , but too HEAVY IMO for anything I want to ride . My wife has a low-low mileage polished set off her MB2 that sits in the corner along with the set off my Ritchey until I can collect a proper wheel box........good to know their is a market out there.

  31. #31
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    Hello everyone!
    I disagree with some of the comments above.
    The first one is the definition of New Old Stock.
    It reminds me of a phrase in Greek that my friend Vlassios taught me, a way in Greek to describe an "old maid" "μενει στη ραφτη", literally "she lives on the shelf", so you could call her "new old stock". Though she may have some shelf wear. I think that something remains "New Old Stock" until it has been used. Condition of "New Old Stock" items may vary depending upon their life, so a NOS item could vary from being in "Mint Condition" to a condition that is no longer restore-able.
    The second comment that I disagree with is that "RM-20 rims are too heavy to use". This comment/criticism is very personal, and depends upon the intended use of the rim, the rider, and the rider's expectations. But for me personally, since Ambrosio and Mavic started making mtb rims I have preferred their rims to Araya's. But give me a bike with RM-20s and I'll ride it without complaining.
    Chris

  32. #32
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    We weren't talking about the auction in question (assuming it was just pulled out of a sealed oem box sitting around somebody's shelf for the last few decades). We're talking about in general.

    Even eBay now has pretty strict definition of New. The installation of a product would not probably qualify no matter what the Greeks would say..

  33. #33
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    OK, What is old to you, may not be old to a Greek, that may be a problem with your vision, which might be corrected.
    Anyway, in my basement is a Pro Cruiser that I assembled for my friend Don, many years ago. We never finished assembling the bike. It has never had tires nor cables. It is NOS.
    A wheel that has been assembled and never ridden is NOS.
    What should matter is condition. Like I said before a NOS item could be all rust.
    chris ioakimedes

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats
    Well lucky you!
    Yeah, lucky me. What about it?

    Of the auctions from him I've tracked, 90% have not sold. What he is doing, I don't know, but basically, if it's from badcnc, I don't bother. He might be a great seller, fast shipper, etc, but I don't feel his prices are in line with the general market. If he can get it, more power to him. The RM20 auction is actually one of his more reasonable ones.

    A month ago, he had a "NOS" frame for $250-$350 starting bid. Pretty reasonable until you get to the part of it being cracked. Did it crack sitting on the shelf? Can this be called NOS?

    I like RM20's. Yes, they are heavier than a M231 but RM20s are very durable and at certain time periods, were as good as anything out there.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat tire trader

    Anyway, in my basement is a Pro Cruiser that I assembled for my friend Don, many years ago. We never finished assembling the bike. It has never had tires nor cables. It is NOS.

    chris ioakimedes
    It's not that I don't believe it exists (like in "pics or it didn't happen"), I do, I do. But..... Come on man, how about at least a little teaser photo....................

    The heck with the ebay auction......
    Cheers,
    T
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  36. #36
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    I would like some 32 hole Araya RM 20s, I've found some 36 holes ones to trade or make two sets of 32-36

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat tire trader
    Hello everyone!
    I disagree with some of the comments above.

    The second comment that I disagree with is that "RM-20 rims are too heavy to use". This comment/criticism is very personal, and depends upon the intended use of the rim, the rider, and the rider's expectations. But for me personally, since Ambrosio and Mavic started making mtb rims I have preferred their rims to Araya's. But give me a bike with RM-20s and I'll ride it without complaining.
    Chris
    You misquoted me I said "but too HEAVY IMO for anything I want to ride" .
    They are quite usable if weight is not important to you.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat tire trader
    OK, What is old to you, may not be old to a Greek, that may be a problem with your vision, which might be corrected.
    Anyway, in my basement is a Pro Cruiser that I assembled for my friend Don, many years ago. We never finished assembling the bike. It has never had tires nor cables. It is NOS.
    A wheel that has been assembled and never ridden is NOS.
    What should matter is condition. Like I said before a NOS item could be all rust.
    chris ioakimedes
    Obviously, this stuff's open to interpretation, but your point about the Pro Cruiser is interesting. Personally, I would say the bike is NOS with the parts on it, but the parts, if removed from the bike and sold, are no longer NOS because they've been mounted to a bike.

  39. #39
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    How about this,
    Level 1 NOS in the original, sealed and never opened box or package. Mint Condition
    Level 2 NOS in the original box or package. Mint Condition
    Level 3 NOS No box or package. Mint Condition
    Level 4 NOS Has been previously installed, but never used, may have wrench marks, but otherwise in mint condition.
    Chris

  40. #40
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    call it whatever you like. geez.

  41. #41
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    I've got some RM20's with Deore hubs...I just figured they were low end beater bike material.

  42. #42
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    Level 5 NOS They're used, but I wiped them off real good and I really need the money.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Level 5 NOS They're used, but I wiped them off real good and I really need the money.
    nice one!
    blah, blah, blah..........

    www.fatcogs.com

  44. #44
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    RM-25s led to RM-20s which led to the RM-17s which then led to the RM-400s and finally the RM-395 Teams. I've built with the last three models myself and still have an RM-395 wheelset on one of my bikes. As to the RM-20s are heavy comment, heavy is relative in VRC land. They're certainly not as bad as Mavic M6 Oxygens (600g range) and fit into the same weight range of the Wolber AT-20s (520g).

    The good ol' bikepro site as a rim tables with them listed.

    http://www.bikepro.com/products/rims/rimtables.html
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  45. #45
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    In the BMX world, an NOS part is no longer NOS once you mount it on a bike, regardless of whether you ride the bike or not. "Built from NOS parts" is the term mostly commonly used in this case. I believe "Stock" in "New Old Stock" suggests it was part of a parts supply stock as opposed to have been opened and/or used in some fashion, even if that only means mounted. There are probably exceptions, for instance, a part in new like condition that was returned to stock, like a returned item. In most cases this would not be resold as new, but that probably depends on the seller's judgement, or lack there of.
    Wanted:Nothing. I have too much.

  46. #46
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    Here is another way to spend $250 on eBay and get a minty RM-20 and XT wheelset. Comes with some other stuff too.

    <a href="http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/bikebldr/eBay%20Auctions/?action=view&current=20080906__1016.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/bikebldr/eBay%20Auctions/20080906__1016.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

  47. #47
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    Cool Mountain Cat!

  48. #48
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    Finally built up my "overpriced" rims yesterday. NOS Araya RM-17s. Nice rims - weird seam, but nice otherwise and a piece of cake to build up.

    Never had a bike with these before, but long ago I had some RM-25 rims that held up beautifully.

    Crappy cell phone pic (don't strain your neck!):
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Araya RM-20s-photo-1-.jpg  


  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats
    Finally built up my "overpriced" rims yesterday. NOS Araya RM-17s.
    Holy Lightweight wheels!

  50. #50
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    You'll be happy to know I put a few more spokes in.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Araya RM-20s-photo-2-.jpg  


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