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  1. #1
    RIS
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    Anybody use the "Wings" damping cartridge kit for the Judy?

    I converted to Kronos coil springs when the Elastomers turned to dust, but the original equimpment METAL damping cartridge in my '96 Judy has held oil for 14 years...until now. And I don't think I can ride this in "spring on a stick" mode.

    I'm seeing the Wings cartridge and spring kit for my fork. Is it any good? Are there any other options any more?

  2. #2
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    I haven't looked at the Wings kit for the Judy, but the ones for old Manitous are non adjustable dampers. In applications like a Manitou 3 or 4 that never had a damper they are better than nothing. Fit and finish or OK.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
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  3. #3
    What could go wrong ...
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    I got one for a Judy XC I was rebuilding and the plastic threaded end snapped off the first time I compressed the fork ... I contacted Mr Wings and he said he would send me a new part for it ... I am still waiting over a year now for him to send one ... get the Jem cartridge instead
    I used to ride to Win ... Now I ride to Grin

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  4. #4
    RIS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoke2
    ...get the Jem cartridge instead
    Where do I get the Jem cartridge from?

  5. #5
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    ebay. It's Gem, not Jem.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
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  6. #6
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    Are springs better than elastomers on the judy? I have to buy either bew elastomers or a spring kit.

  7. #7
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    As long as your damper is in working order, springs are better. They don't melt or otherwise break down.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
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  8. #8
    RIS
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52
    ebay. It's Gem, not Jem.
    Not finding it on ebay spelled that way either.

  9. #9
    RIS
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudymexico
    Are springs better than elastomers on the judy? I have to buy either bew elastomers or a spring kit.
    the original elastomers sort of worked, but they broke down and failed, and they are no longer available anyway.

    The aftermarket replacement elastomers don't work well.

    The steel coil springs work well, and they are available.

  10. #10
    beer is good
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    risse gem

    RIS I have one for a 63mm judy...could possibly be modded or changed by Risse for longer travel judy.

    You can have it cheap...PM if interested.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anybody use the "Wings" damping cartridge kit for the Judy?-daryl-010-large-e-mail-view.jpg  

    Steve
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  11. #11
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    The RISSE Gem cartridge is no better than the aluminium rockshox cartridge. Both are still thru-shaft shocks and both are rebuildable.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  12. #12
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    Isn't the Judy damper a compression damper that provides no rebound control? (Except for the Judy DH, which had two dampers, one in one leg for compression and one in the other leg for rebound)
    If so, that means that a coil spring kit would mean uncontrolled rebound.
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  13. #13
    RIS
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    The RISSE Gem cartridge is no better than the aluminium rockshox cartridge. Both are still thru-shaft shocks and both are rebuildable.
    Mine is the long travel version of the XC fork, and has the 75mm travel metal cartridge, not the plastic one that I keep hearing about.

    Are there parts available for it?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by uphiller
    Isn't the Judy damper a compression damper that provides no rebound control? (Except for the Judy DH, which had two dampers, one in one leg for compression and one in the other leg for rebound)
    If so, that means that a coil spring kit would mean uncontrolled rebound.
    Well, compression was the only adjustment available, but it seemed to offer rebound damping also. It felt like it had damping in both directions when I held it in my hand and worked it back and forth the last time I had it apart too.

  15. #15
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    It has damping in both directions, at least the later ones do. When you adjust the damper it adjusts both rebound and compression, though IIRC it changed compression to a greater degree than rebound. I think the point of splitting the dampers in the DH was to give greater control over adjustment.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
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  16. #16
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    In his ad, Mr Wings says you can send it back for a refund if need be, but it has never happened yet. Which is quite surprising, as the only person I know of who bought one did send it back for a refund. Which was given. He said he was concerned that the damper made an unimpressive noise straight out of the box and the coil spring made a loud rattling noise riding along, so he cut his losses. Obviously I don't know whether this was a general experience or just a one-off.

    The eBay seller who sells Kronos (nee Speed) springs and used to sell Risse cartridges told me recently he couldn't find any Risse cartridges to sell at present. I never heard a bad word about Risse cartridges.

  17. #17
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Yes the judy cartridge's adjustment was for compression, it was their attempt at being able to make it respond less to pedal/brake dive. Sorta how the static-lockout settings on the Mag-21 worked. It did slow the rebound down also but that port was fixed. Amp Thru-Shaft rear shocks around the same time gained an adjustment for its low-speed compression blow-off setting. Both worked essentially the same way. The thru-shaft itself had a ball bearing inside that held the oil flow between the chambers closed, that was spring loaded. A sufficient size bump increases the oil pressure enough to overcome the spring and force the ball bearing away from the oil flow port. The adjustment on the spring tension changes the bump force threshold needed to move the ball. Thus the Amp thru-shaft shocks thus worked like a platform damper, as did the Judy cartridges of the time. Later Judy models when they went to the hydracoil setup switched to a fixed compression circuit and adjustable rebound circuit instead. The Motion-Control system is the modern incarnation to a design rockshox used many times in the past.
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  18. #18
    RIS
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    Makes sense.

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