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  1. #1
    VRC Illuminati
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    1995/6 WTB Phoenix Stealth Resto-mod.

    I have a modern full suspension bike. I love it. All my VRC bikes are exercises in period or near period correctness. What I didn't have, was a good ole' fashioned XC hardtail. For a short while I had a freshly restored 94 Phoenix SE. At the time I thought for sure I would never find the correct Toggle-Cam or Type II for...so I sold it.

    I had the opportunity to put some saddle time on Fillet-Brazed's Phoenix on one of my local trails. A trail I had done 100's of times before. One run through a nice little single track section on the Psyclone (which I liked) and once on his Phoenix. Uh oh. Major difference. The way that WTB felt was truly amazing. Absolutely comfortable and effortless through the same pass. It shouldn't be too much of a surprise, since I like the way my Potts and Ritchey ride I suppose.

    At any rate, this guy popped up on the MTBR Classifieds in the vintage section (how often does that happen!) and I swooped. Frame, Toggle, 140mm WTB hub, misc parts. A solid foundation.
    Several of the other parts I already had lying around, a few items had to be sourced. The goal was to put together a classic NorCal XC MTB; modern enough to be user friendly yet still retain that VRC flavor.

    Soo...this morning was my first ride on it (Kings of Kennedy Hill Climb Race) and it was everything that I expected. I need to make a few tweaks and put a lot more saddle time in on it, but what a joy. I stripped most of the worn decals. No one needs to know what this is.

    Sorry for the poor quality pics.


    Frame: Dec 1995 Phoenix SE, suspension corrected
    Fork: Custom Hippie-Tech Rock Shox SID (2.5 lb fork)
    Rims: Mavic 317 Disc front, Mavic 231 rear (Hollister built wheelset)
    Hubs: Chris King Disc front, WTB Classic GG 140mm rear
    Quick Release: WTB
    Tires: Specialized Fast Trak Kevlar
    Pedals: Shimano SPD
    Crank: Cook Bros E
    Chain: Sram
    Rear Cogs: Something I need to change to Dura Ace
    Bottom Bracket: World Class Ti
    Front Derailleur: Shimano M901 XTR
    Rear Derailleur: Shimano Dura Ace 7400
    Shifters: Shimano M900 XTR
    Handlebars: Easton Monkeylite SL
    Grips: Ritchey WCS
    Stem: Ritchey WCS
    Headset: Chris King No-Logo
    Brake set: Avid BB7 Road front (to work with cantilever levers), WTB Toggle-Cam rear
    Brake levers: Shimano M900 XTR
    Saddle: WTB SSR Ti
    Seat Post: Syncros 31.8 (would love to find the proper WTB post)
    Paint: Forrest Green, 'Phoenix' decals removed.
    Size: 15"
    Serial #:
    Place of Origin: Mill Valley, Ca.























    As I got it.

    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  2. #2
    I picked two too many
    Reputation: MrOrange's Avatar
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    I adore functionalist looking steeds.

  3. #3
    horn doggie
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    A bit of this, a bit of that. Some new-ish, some vintage-esque components. The ride is what matters. Seems you've found it - congrats!
    Wanted:

    Potts, Potts, Potts

  4. #4
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Nice and dirty! Looks great! I wonder how many people just ran over to look at the classifieds.

    15" huh? Now you're hanging out in my box.

    Are those King cages? They shouldn't make your nice water bottles look like that.

    g

    p.s. It's so nice that this is neither an outing nor a piece of crap.
    Last edited by girlonbike; 09-06-2008 at 04:05 PM.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
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    Another beautiful bike. They never look dated, thats what makes them a classic. There are no colors time forgot no unsightly gussets or extra tubes. Just a collection of fine steel tubes put together at beautiful angles with artisan welds. Timeless.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
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    Rumpfy's.......he's gone German nuclear on seat post height! Great looking ride!
    Needed: 26.8mm XTR seatpost, blue GT/Grundig Jersey.

  7. #7
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    Nice looking rider! I need one of these some day.

    How is the balance between the toggle in the rear and the Avid mechanical in the front?

  8. #8
    VRC Hound
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    Very nice. I'd prefer it with the decals, but ...

  9. #9
    Fat City Michael
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    Nice build, glad that you like the ride and that you went for function over fashion because that bike was made to ride!
    FATMIKEYNYC
    STILL Looking For: NOS 176 Non-Drive Cook Bros RSR Crank Arm in silver

  10. #10
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgirlonbike
    Nice and dirty! Looks great! I wonder how many people just ran over to look at the classifieds.

    15" huh? Now you're hanging out in my box.

    Are those King cages? They shouldn't make your nice water bottles look like that.

    g

    p.s. It's so nice that this is neither an outing nor a piece of crap.

    Phoenix sizing ran different that traditional MTB sizing...so in this case, 15" is the proper frame size for the 6' footers.

    They are King Cages, but those bottles get used on other cages too.



    Haha...not an outting, and not crap. Amen Sista!
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  11. #11
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm1230126
    Rumpfy's.......he's gone German nuclear on seat post height! Great looking ride!

    It does seem that way, but its as intended. Take a look at other Phoeni. Phoenixes?

    And thanks!
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  12. #12
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleCentury
    Nice looking rider! I need one of these some day.

    How is the balance between the toggle in the rear and the Avid mechanical in the front?

    Gratzie.

    The Avids are a bit spongier, but all things considering...pretty close in feel. Better than expected.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  13. #13
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Nice build, glad that you like the ride and that you went for function over fashion because that bike was made to ride!

    I intend to ride it into the ground.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  14. #14
    bonked
    Reputation: IF52's Avatar
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    So I'm looking at the pics and notice the Hippietech sticker and wonder if this is one of the 1 inch conversions you mentioned in my fork rant a few days ago. But I notice no bolt on crown and can't imagine WTB stuck with 1 inch up through 95/96. But that head tube really looks smaller than 1 1/8. So is that a 1 inch conversion? What the heck does he do, press out the old steerer and press in a shimmed 1 inch?

    Hijack over.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  15. #15
    Fat City Michael
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    1995/6 WTB Phoenix Stealth Resto-mod.

    Rumpfy-I am using your build as an inspiration for the Phoenix frame/Type II fork that I have well hidden under my bed, but won't be able to fully build up until my 7 week old twins are well, a bit older...I plan to do some period correct stuff, some old school bits and some random modern touches per my typical builds...in case you're wondering yes I managed to find a 1&1/8" threadless stem that's got a jacked up rise/reach for me and it's also good to know that the 15" size with the jacked seat post will also work for me, as I was a little worried that it may be a bit small for me since the previous owner of this particular frameset rides a smaller size bike than I do

    What size tires are you running, they look FAT and seem to just clear the Toggle-Cam?
    FATMIKEYNYC
    STILL Looking For: NOS 176 Non-Drive Cook Bros RSR Crank Arm in silver

  16. #16
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52
    So I'm looking at the pics and notice the Hippietech sticker and wonder if this is one of the 1 inch conversions you mentioned in my fork rant a few days ago. But I notice no bolt on crown and can't imagine WTB stuck with 1 inch up through 95/96. But that head tube really looks smaller than 1 1/8. So is that a 1 inch conversion? What the heck does he do, press out the old steerer and press in a shimmed 1 inch?

    Hijack over.

    No hijack at all.

    This particular fork is a 1 1/8".

    I had a blue SID that I ran on my Slingshot(s) that I bought from Hippie-Tech that was a 1" though...

    Rock Shox did put out a 1" SID in 98 and 99. I was fortunate enough to get one from him before the 1" SID market got hot. He might still have some left, but I think the prices have adjusted accordingly. But don't quote me on that.

    Give him a call. He's a nice guy. Easy to talk to.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  17. #17
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Rumpfy-I am using your build as an inspiration for the Phoenix frame/Type II fork that I have well hidden under my bed, but won't be able to fully build up until my 7 week old twins are well, a bit older...I plan to do some period correct stuff, some old school bits and some random modern touches per my typical builds...in case you're wondering yes I managed to find a 1&1/8" threadless stem that's got a jacked up rise/reach for me and it's also good to know that the 15" size with the jacked seat post will also work for me, as I was a little worried that it may be a bit small for me since the previous owner of this particular frameset rides a smaller size bike than I do

    What size tires are you running, they look FAT and seem to just clear the Toggle-Cam?

    Well I'm flattered.

    Do you know if your Phoenix is suspension corrected or not? Headtube length should tell you for sure. Having a Type II on there will be awesome and whatever else you have to do to make it user friendly.

    Tires are 2.0's Its a close fit, but there's room to wiggle.

    Here are the Phoenix specs (courtesy of SSMike)

    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  18. #18
    bonked
    Reputation: IF52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    No hijack at all.

    This particular fork is a 1 1/8".

    I had a blue SID that I ran on my Slingshot(s) that I bought from Hippie-Tech that was a 1" though...

    Rock Shox did put out a 1" SID in 98 and 99. I was fortunate enough to get one from him before the 1" SID market got hot. He might still have some left, but I think the prices have adjusted accordingly. But don't quote me on that.

    Give him a call. He's a nice guy. Easy to talk to.
    Thank Eric. Yeah, I think I have seen two original 1 inch SIDs pop up on eBay in the last few years. I keep watching, believe me. Maybe I'll see what Hippie has to say after I get the current 1 inch SID/Judy project wrapped up.

    So one more thing, have you actually ridden much with a Dura Ace or other older road rear der offroad? We used to try that back in the late 80s pre XT short cage and the spring tension just wasn't strong enough to hold up against the roots and rocks in the southeast. Have you had better luck?
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  19. #19
    Fat City Michael
    Reputation: Fatmikeynyc's Avatar
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    1995/6 WTB Phoenix Stealth Resto-mod.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Well I'm flattered.

    Do you know if your Phoenix is suspension corrected or not? Headtube length should tell you for sure. Having a Type II on there will be awesome and whatever else you have to do to make it user friendly.

    Tires are 2.0's Its a close fit, but there's room to wiggle.

    Here are the Phoenix specs (courtesy of SSMike)

    Thanks Rumpfy-I will have to measure the headtube or just ask the previous owner if my Phoenix is suspension corrected or not, but I've already got the Type II, so I'm not thinking of using suspension...I'll keep that in mind about the tire size but as I said this is a LONG term project.
    FATMIKEYNYC
    STILL Looking For: NOS 176 Non-Drive Cook Bros RSR Crank Arm in silver

  20. #20
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52
    Thank Eric. Yeah, I think I have seen two original 1 inch SIDs pop up on eBay in the last few years. I keep watching, believe me. Maybe I'll see what Hippie has to say after I get the current 1 inch SID/Judy project wrapped up.

    So one more thing, have you actually ridden much with a Dura Ace or other older road rear der offroad? We used to try that back in the late 80s pre XT short cage and the spring tension just wasn't strong enough to hold up against the roots and rocks in the southeast. Have you had better luck?

    Cutting the crown off of a newer SID and replacing it with the 1" Judy crown is a cool fix. The pics from those who have tried it on this forum...looks pretty clean.


    I run a 7700 DA on my Ventana and I ride that bike hard. No issues at all. No troubles with the 7400 yet, though its only been on ride, mostly fire road. We'll see how it does on rougher, more tech trails.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  21. #21
    VRC Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Thanks Rumpfy-I will have to measure the headtube or just ask the previous owner if my Phoenix is suspension corrected or not, but I've already got the Type II, so I'm not thinking of using suspension...I'll keep that in mind about the tire size but as I said this is a LONG term project.

    Aye. Running the rigid fork on the suspension corrected frame might steepen things up a bit. Not sure how much that will affect handling...kind of the reverse of running suspension on a non-suspension corrected frame.


    Looking forward to seeing your finished product...in 20012.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Elevation12,000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushpig
    Very nice. I'd prefer it with the decals, but ...
    If someone ever needs decals: I have them made recently, but the later ones with WTB on the dt and Phoenix on the tt. Also includes the 140 rear spacing decal for left chainstay. Gil M on Retrobike did it for me. Get in touch with him.

    Nice bike Eric. Enjoy it

  23. #23
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    Great, Rumpfy - now everyone's scrambling to find their own Phoenix I still believe the Phoenix is, quite possibly, the best riding frames of all time. Magical ride qualities. Nice job on the build. The front brake probably feels "mushy" because of the brake levers are designed to work with canti brakes and your disc brake was designed to work with v-levers. You could get an Avid road caliper and it will feel like it's supposed to.

    Quote Originally Posted by gm1230126
    .......he's gone German nuclear on seat post height!
    The Phoenix was designed to be run with a lot of seat post exposed. Typically, you would ride a size that was much smaller - Rumpfy's 15" vs his standard 20" (or thereabouts) frame sizes. The big oversized post allows you to do this. This bike below is a 12" frame and it still has around 6" of seat post in the frame.

  24. #24
    bonked
    Reputation: IF52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    The front brake probably feels "mushy" because of the brake levers are designed to work with canti brakes and your disc brake was designed to work with v-levers. You could get an Avid road caliper and it will feel like it's supposed to.
    That is a road caliper. He just needs to fiddle with setup a bit. Mine felt mushy too at the beginning and I started to feel like they were junk, but I messed around with pad spacing and cable setup and now I actually like them quite a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52
    That is a road caliper. He just needs to fiddle with setup a bit. Mine felt mushy too at the beginning and I started to feel like they were junk, but I messed around with pad spacing and cable setup and now I actually like them quite a bit.
    Doh! That speed reading class did nothing for my comprehension. Doesn't that lever have the servo-wave feature?

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