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  1. #1
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    1991 Raleigh John Tomac signature

    My latest build. Pretty close to the exact 1991 World Cup, Norba, and world champion bike.
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  2. #2
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    I just about passed out.
    This post made my day!
    -eric-

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  3. #3
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    ohhhh yes. now thats nice. good work! exceptionally rare frame.
    lucky you ;P

    let me know if you ever need to sell

    ta

    scant

  4. #4
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed
    My latest build. Pretty close to the exact 1991 World Cup, Norba, and world champion bike.
    That's really nice!

  5. #5
    artistic...
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    tell us the whole story please.

    how, when... all the intrigue, characters. afer all, this is THE retro classic thread cause this is THE bike (same as the one ridden by THE man. sorry for the dribble but this is too much for me.)

  6. #6
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    A cool thing has been done . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed
    My latest build. Pretty close to the exact 1991 World Cup, Norba, and world champion bike.
    That's AWESOME!!! Nice work on this ultra-fine retro restore.

    (still wipping the drool from my laptop screen . . . )

    "Once a cool thing has been done, it can not be undone!"

    - Tread the movie



    -mtnwing

  7. #7
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    So, uh...how's it ride? Have you put down some miles on it or will she be a garage queen? Both places are justified for it.
    -eric-

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  8. #8
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    So, uh...how's it ride? Have you put down some miles on it or will she be a garage queen? Both places are justified for it.

    If it's meant to be ridden on the trail, we should meet up for a retro-ride with the D.L. and E.R. both riding tension disks. I'll be the odd-man out!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    If it's meant to be ridden on the trail, we should meet up for a retro-ride with the D.L. and E.R. both riding tension disks. I'll be the odd-man out!
    Works for me. DL might have more than one...I could always build up one of my 'spare' discs just for you (if I find a hub)....but what bike would you put it on?
    We'd be quite loud and look pretty funny with all the discs going on.

    I beat the piss out of the dark T-disc and it held up fine...I just hear so many sad stories of those things blowing up. I'd be riding with more 'finesse' than usual.
    -eric-

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Works for me. DL might have more than one...I could always build up one of my 'spare' discs just for you (if I find a hub)....but what bike would you put it on?
    We'd be quite loud and look pretty funny with all the discs going on.

    I beat the piss out of the dark T-disc and it held up fine...I just hear so many sad stories of those things blowing up. I'd be riding with more 'finesse' than usual.

    If you build up an extra tension disk, I'll put it on my older Yeti and ride that.

    Speaking of "finesse" (or lack there of), on Monday's climb up the Table Mountain single-track I managed to hit evary log and rock with my front wheel. I must have dabbed 15 times during the climb. I need some lesons on riding smooth.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    If you build up an extra tension disk, I'll put it on my older Yeti and ride that.

    Speaking of "finesse" (or lack there of), on Monday's climb up the Table Mountain single-track I managed to hit evary log and rock with my front wheel. I must have dabbed 15 times during the climb. I need some lesons on riding smooth.
    You mean dab like this?:




    We'll have a 'skills' day at Skeggs then.
    -eric-

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  12. #12
    the new Gilbert Grape
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    You mean dab like this?

    I think that falling off the back of your bike is certainly a dab. As long as you only look at the first pic, it looks like I did fine.

  13. #13
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    Here's a little newer version

    1993 version @ http://www.firstflightbikes.com/Tomac.htm

    I don't think the bike was ever ridden and it came with all manuals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Flight
    1993 version @ http://www.firstflightbikes.com/Tomac.htm

    I don't think the bike was ever ridden and it came with all manuals.
    Such a fine example Jeff. Where did you find/how did you end up with it?

    Although, I have to say, DL's is not a replica. That ups the cool factor in a different way.
    -eric-

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  15. #15
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    I know they had Tomac's original hanging from the ceiling in "NikeTown" in Portland for quite a few years. I wonder if they still have it.

    Man...that was my dream bike in high school, but it was 2-3x as expensive as ANYTHING else on the market at the time. Too cool. I wonder why Raleigh stopped making high end bikes.

    So, what did it cost you to build? I wonder what an orignal goes for?

    Also...I just noticed- that Tioga stem looks to have the same retention system as a modern Thomson stem.

  16. #16
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    The Eagle's Old Jet Wings . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by First Flight
    1993 version @ http://www.firstflightbikes.com/Tomac.htm

    I don't think the bike was ever ridden and it came with all manuals.

    I think both are beautiful and pristine retro examples of the Tomac legacy. Neat to see how specs changed over time.

    Gotta love all those old rare Tioga parts on the 1993. AND equally enjoyable is that first generation XTR adorned on the bike/rider that first tested it before us mortals got a chance to buy and ride it!

    I'll be counting Carbon/Ti Ralieghs jumping over a log fence as fall asleep tonight!


    -mtnwing

  17. #17
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    Hope to bed with a smile!

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnwing
    I think both are beautiful and pristine retro examples of the Tomac legacy. Neat to see how specs changed over time.

    Gotta love all those old rare Tioga parts on the 1993. AND equally enjoyable is that first generation XTR adorned on the bike/rider that first tested it before us mortals got a chance to buy and ride it!

    I'll be counting Carbon/Ti Ralieghs jumping over a log fence as fall asleep tonight!


    -mtnwing
    I'll sleep well tonight.

    one Tomac Raleighs (passing Tinker on the downhill)

    two Tomac Raleighs (dusting Frischknecht on steep uphill)

    three Tomac Raleighs (toasting HB on a hairy descent)

    four Tomac Raleighs (just looking cool chillin' at his box van w/Bob G the killer retro-mechanic)

    five Tomac Raleighs (lookin fast just standing still . . . )


    zzzzzzz xxx zzzzzzz xxx zzzzzz xxx zzzzzzzz


    -mtnwing

  18. #18
    artistic...
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    numbers, geometry...

    if i remember:20in st c-t, 23.5 tt, 73/ 72, 42 wb...and it looks like a 16.9 cs. am i right?
    it sems tomac rode a "big" bike. like frishknecht. or was it they didn't care for showing lots of seatpost? while everybody is obsessing with short bikes..

  19. #19
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    Hopefully today is the maiden voyage. Sadly enough Ive gotta be a bit easy on it because of the irreplacable aspect to it, but I am gonna ride it. I just cant rail it like it was meant to be. It'll be a part time garage queen and part time trail rider. Cant wait to hear that distinct disc sound that, in the past, meant Tomac was coming! Its just a tad big for me, I normally hav e a 23" top tube. Im curious to see how she rides.

    Thanks all for the nice comments, Ive always wanted one of these since 91. This Merlin-made model is supposedly one of 4-5 frames made specifically for Johnny T. I thought Id never see one. Now I get to go ride it! I really like that first generation XTR a lot too. Should be fun.

  20. #20
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    Not bad! Ya, I think its 20" center to top of top tube and 20.5" center to top. I havent measured the wheelbase but I think everything else is right on.

    Yes, Frishy and Tomac used level top tube bikes and maybe slightly bigger bikes through the early 90s. Frishy still actually does. I guess they like the longer top tube and a bit longer front center. See Frishy's 2003 bikes here: http://www.frischknecht.ch/main.htm The FS has a slope to it but the hardtail doesnt have much. Not much seatpost showing there. The new Scott Genius also has very little slope if any.
    Last edited by Fillet-brazed; 03-11-2004 at 01:11 PM.

  21. #21
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    Good one! I think good ol' Nedly deserves atleast a verse too.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    how, when... all the intrigue, characters. afer all, this is THE retro classic thread cause this is THE bike (same as the one ridden by THE man. sorry for the dribble but this is too much for me.)
    Well, its an actual race bike of THE aforementioned man. I got the hookup through a friend of a friend. I feel quite lucky to have picked it up. I also got that 87 "Mongoose" made by Fat Chance and a few other items from him. Needless to say Im a Tomac fan. Nobody could ride a bike like him. Michael Jordan I think is on a similar level in my book. Anyway, enough of that.

    Regarding the build, the things that arent accurate to his 91 setup:

    The blue 92 stickers stuck over the 91green ones. Im a bit worried to take them off as the original green ones might not look too good.....

    The rear tire is a Psycho which I think came out around 92?? Should be a Tioga Hound Dog or Mud Dog.

    Handlebars are not Tioga.

    It doesnt have the Control Tech bar ends.

    Oh, and that disc wheel is a bit newer as well. The 91 model is the dark blue one.

    Other than those things, its pretty close to his exact setup.
    Last edited by Fillet-brazed; 03-11-2004 at 11:21 AM.

  23. #23
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    Tomes 91 picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed
    Well, its an actual race bike of THE aforementioned man. I got the hookup through a friend of a friend. I feel quite lucky to have picked it up. I also got that 87 "Mongoose" made by Fat Chance and a few other items from him. Needless to say Im a Tomac fan. Nobody could ride a bike like him. Michael Jordan I think is on a similar level in my book. Anyway, enough of that.

    Regarding the build, the things that arent accurate to his 91 setup:

    The blue 92 stickers stuck over the 91green ones. Im a bit worried to take them off as the original green ones might not look too good.....

    The rear tire is a Psycho which I think came out around 92?? Should be a Tioga Hound Dog or Mud Dog.

    Handlebars are not Tioga.

    It doesnt have the Control Tech bar ends.

    Oh, and that disc wheel is a bit newer as well. The 91 model is the dark blue one.

    Other than those things, its pretty close to his exact setup.
    Do you have a 91 pic of Tomac you can post? It would be neet to see your rebuild and a pic of Tomes in 91 side by side!

    -mtnwing

  24. #24
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    I purchased one of the ti/carbon frames from the southeastern raleigh rep in 1996. It seems that raleigh still had 20 of them. Picked it up for $750 and raced it hard for 3 months until it got stolen...

  25. #25
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    OH! soo nice, thats one (ok the) fav bikes. sooo nice to see.

    ahve some questions for the people who know, i used to have some mags with reveiws, but they were in the back of a mates car when it got totalled :-( grrr!

    there the origianl? green one then later the blue one, from some of the pics i have tomac ran rock shox on the green and according to the massive poster hanging over my bed he ran blue tioga (shiowa) forks and time pedals and shoes later. have i got it right? what intrime changes were there? where can i get reviews?

    keep up the good retro work fellas. Cool!!

  26. #26
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    We the people ...

    FB, I'd be real interested to see pics of the FAT/ mongoose if you can post them up?



    ta

    scant

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git
    OH! soo nice, thats one (ok the) fav bikes. sooo nice to see.

    ahve some questions for the people who know, i used to have some mags with reveiws, but they were in the back of a mates car when it got totalled :-( grrr!

    there the origianl? green one then later the blue one, from some of the pics i have tomac ran rock shox on the green and according to the massive poster hanging over my bed he ran blue tioga (shiowa) forks and time pedals and shoes later. have i got it right? what intrime changes were there? where can i get reviews?

    keep up the good retro work fellas. Cool!!
    IIRC, the bike pictured at the top of this thread...is the same frame with blue decals placed over the green one's...DL can correct me on this.

    It seems Tomac ran the Manitous, the gold Mag's, the Judy, the Tioga/Shiowa, the every fork on this bike....

    Although, I thought he ran the Manitou first on the green bike, then the Mag20/21's on the green decaled bike....I don't recall seeing the Manitou's on the blue decaled bike...
    Did I miss something?
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  28. #28
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    I'd like to see a big bike shoot out, old v new get some old models and put them up against new bikes. ie old yeti arc v new, klein attitude, tomac taos v manitou HT v tomac signature. things like that, through in a few XC FS bikes and see how they all compare, changes improvements thats sort of thing. or has it been done??

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    IIRC, the bike pictured at the top of this thread...is the same frame with blue decals placed over the green one's...DL can correct me on this.

    It seems Tomac ran the Manitous, the gold Mag's, the Judy, the Tioga/Shiowa, the every fork on this bike....

    Although, I thought he ran the Manitou first on the green bike, then the Mag20/21's on the green decaled bike....I don't recall seeing the Manitou's on the blue decaled bike...
    Did I miss something?
    Here she is in her 1991 green glory.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed
    Here she is in her 1991 green glory.
    Took the blues off then huh? I like it...didn't think I would (blue matches my eyes)...but, that's still just such a cool resto job!
    -eric-

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Took the blues off then huh? I like it...didn't think I would (blue matches my eyes)...but, that's still just such a cool resto job!
    Ya, the blue ones were put on over the original green ones for the '92 season (the green stickers are clearcoated over) and they came off with a heat gun pretty quick.

  32. #32
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    That is a sweet Tomac.

    I have a Mud Dawg around somewhere (used) if you are interested in it. Not really looking to sell it, but it belongs on this bike if that's what's original, if my post is inappropriate, please pull it.

    JW

  33. #33
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    We the people ... ok, can I confirm something..

    . "This Merlin-made model is supposedly one of 4-5 frames made specifically for Johnny T"

    which is what I've always thought. so thats right yeh? the 5 proto/ early frames & the later models were made by litespeed (easiest way to tell the difference being the dropouts)

    litespeed having the characteristic 2 hole design. Am I right?

  34. #34
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    once again... these are soooooooooooo nice...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant
    . "This Merlin-made model is supposedly one of 4-5 frames made specifically for Johnny T"

    which is what I've always thought. so thats right yeh? the 5 proto/ early frames & the later models were made by litespeed (easiest way to tell the difference being the dropouts)

    litespeed having the characteristic 2 hole design. Am I right?
    FB will be able to shed some light on the 'proto' frames...I wouldn't think them to be Litespeed.

    All the later ones are for sure Litespeed made (and have the Litespeed decal on the wishbone). They also have a serial number on the der. side dropout, and a marking on the underside of the BB. So I've heard.
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  36. #36
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    question for htose that actually own/ride/ridden these tomac frames, what are they like, i remeber MBA and moutain biking raving and saying they were the best ever... back in 93... are they that good? and how do they last...

    hehe maybe raleigh should do a nike... in fact get to gether with nike (link there) and do a retro....like jordans... not likely, but hey i like the idea :-)

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant
    . "This Merlin-made model is supposedly one of 4-5 frames made specifically for Johnny T"

    which is what I've always thought. so thats right yeh? the 5 proto/ early frames & the later models were made by litespeed (easiest way to tell the difference being the dropouts)

    litespeed having the characteristic 2 hole design. Am I right?
    Im not sure I understand what youre asking. What 5 prototype/early frames are you talking about? As far as I know Merlin made the first round of frames. Tomac had worked with Merlin even when he was with Mongoose the last year in 89. That ti Mongoose frame was a Merlin. I actually just heard this Mongoose info from Mike Augsperger not too long ago. So Tomac had a relationship with Fat Chance in 87-88 (Mike A was there at the time) and then with Merlin. I think Raleigh went with Litespeed to cut costs on the production model and then Johnny started using those as well in 93 and 94. But ya, there were 5-6 Merlins. One was stolen in Europe at a World Cup. Johnny still has one too. The Merlins were race bikes in 91 and 92.

  38. #38
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    We the people ...

    I just wanted to make sure that the originals were merlin made & the later models were litespeed (& not the other way around)

    interesting that he rode both versions. where there any other differences other than the dropouts?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant
    I just wanted to make sure that the originals were merlin made & the later models were litespeed (& not the other way around)

    interesting that he rode both versions. where there any other differences other than the dropouts?
    The geometry is all the same, but there are slight structural and cosmetic differences. The Merlin uses a thicker monostay tube, and different cable guides and of course the different finish. The Litespeed has a pretty slim monostay tube. The Merlin is really a pretty bike and looks a bit nicer in workmanship in my opinion. The Litespeed is just slightly lighter. Both have the same Easton C9 carbon tubing on the front triangle.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed
    Im not sure I understand what youre asking. What 5 prototype/early frames are you talking about? As far as I know Merlin made the first round of frames. Tomac had worked with Merlin even when he was with Mongoose the last year in 89. That ti Mongoose frame was a Merlin. I actually just heard this Mongoose info from Mike Augsperger not too long ago. So Tomac had a relationship with Fat Chance in 87-88 (Mike A was there at the time) and then with Merlin. I think Raleigh went with Litespeed to cut costs on the production model and then Johnny started using those as well in 93 and 94. But ya, there were 5-6 Merlins. One was stolen in Europe at a World Cup. Johnny still has one too. The Merlins were race bikes in 91 and 92.

    I think we're missing something though...there are the prototype frames (5-6 of them) that are Merlin built. But there also had to be some production Merlin built 'Signature' models as well, right? Few...but some?
    And then the Litespeed made frames. I will say that the Litespeed frames are fragile!

    When did you talk to Mike FB?
    -eric-

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    I think we're missing something though...there are the prototype frames (5-6 of them) that are Merlin built. But there also had to be some production Merlin built 'Signature' models as well, right? Few...but some?
    And then the Litespeed made frames. I will say that the Litespeed frames are fragile!

    When did you talk to Mike FB?
    I dont think there were any production Merlins. They were just made for Tomac's race needs. Like the MBA test bike posted somewhere here, it had the 91 stickers like the Merlin but it was really a Litespeed if you looked at it.

    Ive got to take some pics tonight, I'll try and snap some of the differences between the Merlin and Litespeed.

    I talked to Mike a few weeks ago about cutting threads on a ti fork.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed
    I dont think there were any production Merlins. They were just made for Tomac's race needs. Like the MBA test bike posted somewhere here, it had the 91 stickers like the Merlin but it was really a Litespeed if you looked at it.

    Ive got to take some pics tonight, I'll try and snap some of the differences between the Merlin and Litespeed.

    I talked to Mike a few weeks ago about cutting threads on a ti fork.
    That would mean that all the Merlin frames were accounted for...
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  43. #43
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    Is this a Merlin frame then?

    -eric-

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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git
    question for htose that actually own/ride/ridden these tomac frames, what are they like, i remeber MBA and moutain biking raving and saying they were the best ever... back in 93... are they that good? and how do they last...

    hehe maybe raleigh should do a nike... in fact get to gether with nike (link there) and do a retro....like jordans... not likely, but hey i like the idea :-)
    Its really a great bike. Ive only taken it on actual rides twice. It has a great lively feel, and felt very fast. Ive ridden lots of bikes and I was impressed by this one. A very fun bike to ride. I really wish I could ride it more!

  45. #45
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    [QUOTE=Rumpfy]Is this a Merlin frame then?

    Yep. This one is in the bay area right? I mentioned this one to Tomac and he didnt know there were any other Merlins besides his. Hmmm. Maybe this is the stolen mystery bike.

  46. #46
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    [QUOTE=Fillet-brazed]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Is this a Merlin frame then?

    Yep. This one is in the bay area right? I mentioned this one to Tomac and he didnt know there were any other Merlins besides his. Hmmm. Maybe this is the stolen mystery bike.
    Yup. I emailed him to get more info on where that frame came from...could be a gold mine!

    There seem to be quite a few JTR's in the NorCal Bay Area....who would of thought!


    Who know's where all the Litespeed frames ended up!?
    -eric-

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  47. #47
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    [QUOTE=Rumpfy]Yup. I emailed him to get more info on where that frame came from...could be a gold mine!

    what do you mean, a race bike chop shop?

  48. #48
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    [QUOTE=Fillet-brazed]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Yup. I emailed him to get more info on where that frame came from...could be a gold mine!

    what do you mean, a race bike chop shop?
    Underground vintage mtb theft ring.
    I hope we never see such a day...
    -eric-

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  49. #49
    RIDE
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    Good job! One of my favorite bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed
    Here she is in her 1991 green glory.
    Good catch!
    'Faster and faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death'
    http://fotki.com/vintagemtbr/

    Joe R.

  50. #50
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    We the people ...

    if anyone knows of a raleigh replica for sale (straight or even broken!) I'd be very interested

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant
    if anyone knows of a raleigh replica for sale (straight or even broken!) I'd be very interested
    You may have some stiff competition for your search I would imagine!
    -eric-

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  52. #52
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    We the people ...

    its been done before ;D

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant
    its been done before ;D
    By the quick and the very, very lucky!
    -eric-

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  54. #54
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    We the people ...

    is it just me? or does that JTR with none standard tomac spec bits just feel weird?
    not saying it looks bad (far from it!).. its a bit like seeing michael jordan wearing reeboks thats all! (maybe not a great example but you get the idea!

    I remeber reading a mountainbike mag test of the mag21sl tis & they fitted that fork to a JTR with a few altered parts. later saw that same magazine pic bike with <checks memory> hallerson inversion forks!

    (eric we have to stop meeting like this ;D )

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant
    is it just me? or does that JTR with none standard tomac spec bits just feel weird?
    not saying it looks bad (far from it!).. its a bit like seeing michael jordan wearing reeboks thats all! (maybe not a great example but you get the idea!

    I remeber reading a mountainbike mag test of the mag21sl tis & they fitted that fork to a JTR with a few altered parts. later saw that same magazine pic bike with <checks memory> hallerson inversion forks!

    (eric we have to stop meeting like this ;D )
    Yeah...it's not as I (personally) would build it. But I know that owner and he's a good guy.

    Email, forum, email, forum...
    -eric-

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  56. #56
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant

    Thanks Scant!

  58. #58
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    We the people ...

    no worries

    any chance of close up pics of the frame?
    I remeber seeing tomacs raleigh being cleaned on a stand after the (94?) grundig world cup in Plymouth UK where I was in uni.. tomac wasnt there.. still a small crowd of 20odd people gathered around his flilthy bike!
    Had a quick look, surprised he wasnt running even a clear chainstay protector, chainstay was real scratched up!

    could be memory playing tricks? but was the carbon tubing (esp on the bottom of the seattube) actually larger diameter than the ti lug?

    I've got loads of pics (pretty good as well) of tomac, ned, tinker on that day.. have to get a scanner & load them up

    ta

    scant

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant
    I've got loads of pics (pretty good as well) of tomac, ned, tinker on that day.. have to get a scanner & load them up
    Please do!
    -eric-

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  60. #60
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    Is South Seatac still open to riding, when I last left the MTB community, I remember there being some discussion to it being closed to bikers.
    Last edited by JTNELSON; 05-07-2010 at 12:00 PM.

  61. #61
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    Why not create a pathetic blog and market it there?
    Federation Against 29:ers
    In memory of nino - godfather of weight weeniesm, banned but not forgotten, sept 2010.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTNELSON
    I have a 1991 frame sticker kit for the tomac Signature model

    Really? This was the thread to bring back from the dead and make your first post in?


    I have shoes on.
    -eric-

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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by erkan
    Why not create a pathetic blog and market it there?
    I never actually went until you posted this...but quotes like

    Quote Originally Posted by erkan
    I am a big fan of the Ringle H2O water bottle cage because it is such a great mountain bike product.
    Don't help your cause much


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  64. #64
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    I just like that both of you have me as your sig quotes. Thanks.
    -eric-

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  65. #65
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    haha. crackin up over here. the "I have shoes on" line and the Ringle bottle cage comment is great.

    Man this is an old thread.

  66. #66
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    Did he ever post pics of the tomac fat chance ?

  67. #67
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    Hey! You guys! Someone just posted a Giant Iguana in another thread, no really! Lets light 'em up, and p*ss 'em out!


  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTNELSON
    Is South Seatac still open to riding, when I last left the MTB community, I remember there being some discussion to it being closed to bikers.
    It is still open.....I personally never saw the desire to ride there though. Full of garbage, Surveyors tape left behind from a million bike races (MTB community representation right there. why don't the people who put those races on clean up after themselves?) . Spray paint. Noise. Crackheads etc. I know a few people who have had their vehicles broke into while riding there.
    Just wondering why this post is in the VRC section and not over on the Washington thread?
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

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