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  1. #1
    PROEDGEBIKER.COM
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    New question here. About to give up on PC to make HD videos

    Got a new HP Laptop for Xmas that IMO was 5 times better then the Dell i had before. The HP came with Corel which is a pretty easy Editor to deal with but everytime I import a 1080p HD Vid it slows the whole thing down so bad that its unacceptable for a Computer that has these specs. While Editing a video i can see 1 frame every 10 seconds and it drives me crazy. I think i will have to bite the bullet, return it and go with a MAC.

    Is this normal for a computer with these specs???

    General Features

    Operating system Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

    Processor Intel Core i7-720QM processor with Turbo Boost Technology

    Processor speed 1.60GHz; with Turbo Boost Technology up to 2.80GHz

    Memory 6GB DDR3 System Memory

    Display 17.3" Diagonal HD+ High-Definition LED HP BrightView Widescreen Display

    Video graphics Nvidia GeForce GT 230M with up to 2815MB total graphics memory with 1024MB dedicated

    Hard drive 640GB (5400RPM) Hard Drive (SATA)
    Last edited by ProEdgeBiker; 01-18-2010 at 12:01 PM.

  2. #2
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    For a laptop, that seems like a decent setup. I would try a different video editor first, and make sure you have all the required codecs. HD video does suck to edit, which is why I shoot in the SD/high frame rate mode. Good luck.

  3. #3
    PROEDGEBIKER.COM
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfshop
    For a laptop, that seems like a decent setup. I would try a different video editor first, and make sure you have all the required codecs. HD video does suck to edit, which is why I shoot in the SD/high frame rate mode. Good luck.

    I went to the Apple store last night and the cheapest Macbook Pro handled every 1080p video without hessitation using the basic imovie editor.

    I bought an HD cam to make HD Vids, i really dont wanna shoot the SD way

  4. #4
    PROEDGEBIKER.COM
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    HP said the Video Card may be faulty so they are sending me a new Laptop.. We'll see where this goes..

  5. #5
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    Not your computer

    It is not your computer. I have a pretty fast i7 950 64 bit system with lots of ram and a high end graphics card. I've never seen the raw output from the CHD but it sounds like exactly what we get with the HD video from the Canon 5D MK II. Somebody asks about this everyday on the Cinema5D PC editing forum. The video doesn't play smoothly in the QT player. I forget the names of the programs, but there are many other video players that play the HD video smoothly. Do a quick search of the forum. The Canon Zoombrowser program that came with the camera plays it quite smoothly.

    As for editing most PC users, and even many Mac users, first transcode their files with Cineform Neo Scene. Read what some incredibly talented professionals say about this and why they do it. Eugenia Loli-Queru seems quite knowledgeable. BTW, linking to a site does not imply I think I am a professional. But I'm smart enough and lazy enough to want to learn from them.

    Since I have nothing else to do I summarized some of the information on my site: http://arnica.csustan.edu/mtbike/5DVideo/index.htm

    Edit: Eugenia Loli-Queru recommended this to someone recently. And only costs $10: http://corecodec.com/products/coreavc
    Last edited by Wherewolf; 01-19-2010 at 08:43 PM.

  6. #6
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    Just a quick first glance: HDD is slow... if editing video you should go with at least 7200 RPM drives, maybe even a pair of fast SCSI. Second, the processor is slow; screw the fast speed-doubling crap, go with the real deal. I'm not familiar with the video card, but it's important in video work.

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/cpu-me...ce-Analysis/p1

  7. #7
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    Here's my trick when editing HD videos on my older laptop in Sony Vegas:

    First, I drag all my clips into the timeline. I then render a lower resolution version of the entire set. I then exit the program (vegas). I then re-enter the program and drag the lower resolution version on top of the original clips (in the track above). I solo ("!" button) the track so that only the lower resolution version plays. I watch the lower resolution version and occasionally pause it where I want to make a cut. Instead of making the cut to the lower resolution version, I instead make the cut to the original clips (that are parallel to it in the track below it). When I'm done making cuts, I delete the lower resolution version. I then drag my clips together in the order that I want them and cross fade some and straight cut others. This works very easy for me, even on my 4 year old laptop.

  8. #8
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    Proxy editing

    It sounds like you are doing a type of proxy editing. On Cinema5D that is the most common alternative alternative to transcoding with Neo Scene. I describe how to do it in Premier Pro on my site, and I expect other programs support proxy editing.

    But despite what anyone else here says, it is not the computer, it is the way the HD files are "wrapped". Transcoding re-warps them in an .avi container and then even a very old PC can handle them. Again, I am not an expert but read the Cinema5D "Editing on a PC" forum for the gory details.

    Here is a quote from Eugenia Loli-Queru There is no CPU out there available that will help you edit the 5D/7D format in real time. You will be wasting your money. You are trying to buy a $5k PC, while all you need to buy is a $130 utility: Cineform NeoSCENE ($99 in some places). I agree. As of today according to Tom's Hardware, my CPU is the fastest there is for Premier Pro editing, and it still can't edit HD smoothly. With Neo Scene editing was fine even on my old quad core.

  9. #9
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    Mac iMovie .... the best!!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    As of today according to Tom's Hardware, my CPU is the fastest there is for Premier Pro editing, and it still can't edit HD smoothly.
    FWIW, not all HD is the same.

    More difficult editing is one of the trade offs that is made when manufacturers decide to use what has been a delivery codec (h.264 MP4/MOV) as a capture codec.

    I have a slower CPU than yours and editing HDV is very smooth in PP CS4.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jello Sundae
    FWIW, not all HD is the same.

    More difficult editing is one of the trade offs that is made when manufacturers decide to use what has been a delivery codec (h.264 MP4/MOV) as a capture codec.

    I have a slower CPU than yours and editing HDV is very smooth in PP CS4.
    Some might say HDV is not really HD :-)

    Not only can a codec difference create issues in post, there is a huge variation on just how much data is being captured or saved by the MFGs AD convertor in the camera. MFG's A's H.246 data stream will be vastly different than MFG B's and even the same MFG will have different data rates and lumina bit rates among its own models. With full HD being 4:4:4; HDV is at the lowest end with 4:2:0. Then toss in frame rates, interlaced, progressive and of course frame size - and it is almost impossible to say my computer edits HD or HDV with no problem...
    Jt

    Here are a few Video Trail Guides I shot - just for fun:
    http://destinationproductions.com/cu...PassionTrails/

  12. #12
    Team Fearless Descender
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    I just wanted to chime in here. I'm not running the fastest of systems in the first place (P4 3gig / 3.5gig ram / XP Pro / 7200rpm drives, etc.), and was having a hell of a time with HD video (Sony Vegas). Since going to Neo Scene for transcoding, I'm a happy boy again!

    This really is (one of?) the way to go.
    .
    "...when your ride is nearly over, it seems to have lasted but an instant..."


    Stuff

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver160651
    Then toss in frame rates, interlaced, progressive and of course frame size - and it is almost impossible to say my computer edits HD or HDV with no problem...
    I disagree.

    My computer edits HDV with no problem, or "smoothly" to borrow Steve's turn of a phrase. There's no noticeable difference in my editing workflow moving from editing MiniDV to HDV. No conversions, clean scrubbing on the timeline, transitions preview flawlessly, chroma keying previews work fine, etc.

    It does take longer to export back to tape though.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jello Sundae
    I disagree.

    My computer edits HDV with no problem, or "smoothly" to borrow Steve's turn of a phrase. There's no noticeable difference in my editing workflow moving from editing MiniDV to HDV. No conversions, clean scrubbing on the timeline, transitions preview flawlessly, chroma keying previews work fine, etc.

    It does take longer to export back to tape though.
    I sorry if I am not clear; I am not suggesting that your computer isn't editing multiple streams your flavor of HD perfectly --

    but my point is there are SO MANY flavors and without being specific about the data stream and number of streams it is hard to tell someone that system X handles "HD" no problem. If I sent you uncompressed 4:4:4 HD from one of our cameras it might not.. certainly 2k or 4k HD would choke all but the fastest RAID based systems.

    Anyway -- I'm sorry, I was just trying to add "food for thought" There is a lot of variation in the HD -- field.
    Jt

    Here are a few Video Trail Guides I shot - just for fun:
    http://destinationproductions.com/cu...PassionTrails/

  15. #15
    PROEDGEBIKER.COM
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    Upset UPDATE on Exchange from HP

    Well, I received an email from HP last night telling me that my order was cancelled...WTF! called HP and they said the reason it was cancelled was due to the item being out of stock!! So i asked the guy, Why did you have me make the exchange if the item was OOS??? I sent back the original laptop on Tuesday morning with the idea that the new one would ship out the same day..."I'm Sorry sir, how about $50 off your next purchase on top of your EPP discount".. HUH???

    Long Story Short..

    Bought:
    17" Macbook Pro
    3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
    4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2X2GB
    500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
    MacBook Pro 17-inch Hi-Resolution Antiglare Widescreen Display
    NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB

    2x the price of the PC but i think i'll be happy for a while.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProEdgeBiker
    Well, I received an email from HP last night telling me that my order was cancelled...WTF! called HP and they said the reason it was cancelled was due to the item being out of stock!! So i asked the guy, Why did you have me make the exchange if the item was OOS??? I sent back the original laptop on Tuesday morning with the idea that the new one would ship out the same day..."I'm Sorry sir, how about $50 off your next purchase on top of your EPP discount".. HUH???

    Long Story Short..

    Bought:
    17" Macbook Pro
    3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
    4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2X2GB
    500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
    MacBook Pro 17-inch Hi-Resolution Antiglare Widescreen Display
    NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB

    2x the price of the PC but i think i'll be happy for a while.
    Its hard to put a value figure on frustration - but it looks like you just did! 4 what it is worth, no machine is perfect .. but you should be much more calm in the days to come with your new mac -- congrats from a Type "AA" video editor
    Jt

    Here are a few Video Trail Guides I shot - just for fun:
    http://destinationproductions.com/cu...PassionTrails/

  17. #17
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    Make the switch to a Mac. Editing with Final Cut Express is the only way to go. I used a PC for years with Sony Vegas and it does not even touch the quailty of a Mac.

  18. #18
    PROEDGEBIKER.COM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarney19
    Make the switch to a Mac. Editing with Final Cut Express is the only way to go. I used a PC for years with Sony Vegas and it does not even touch the quailty of a Mac.
    How about iMovie or iMovie HD, are these pretty good Editing programs?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProEdgeBiker
    How about iMovie or iMovie HD, are these pretty good Editing programs?
    quality isn't really the issue -- programs that support JKL editing, don't ripple edit automatically, allow multiple video/audio streams and support key framing will be a bit harder to learn than imovie -- But then you you have SOOO much more freedom and be able to go to any high end editing program on any platform with a MUCH smaller learning curve. My 2 cents is get the most professional NLE you can afford and learn that instead of a program like imovie that is drag and drop.. 6 months down the road you be so happy you made the effort to learn the program -
    Jt

    Here are a few Video Trail Guides I shot - just for fun:
    http://destinationproductions.com/cu...PassionTrails/

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarney19
    Make the switch to a Mac.
    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarney19
    Editing with Final Cut Express is the only way to go.
    Why?

  21. #21
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    works for me?

    A little bit late on this one...

    I bought an Acer 8940G (core i7, fast HDD, Nvidia GTS 250 blah blah blah) at x-mas so I could edit the HD footage from my GoPro.

    The H.264 format is a delivery format (think finished product), and what we're trying to do is put the clips on a timeline and edit them and re-export to a new file. At least that's what I want to do.

    After doing some investigation this format is a 'pig' and will suck your processing power just to 'scrub' through the video in editing mode.

    I didn't want to resort to creating proxies, or converting the files to uncompressed video to get around this because my main goal is to quickly and efficiently be able to edit the files, drop in a tune, and export to Vimeo.

    After some messing around I've been able to do this with Sony Vegas. The process:

    Start a new project
    Import my clips (.mp4, h.264 compressed)
    Arrange on the timeline
    Add effects / fades
    Export.

    Playback in the editor can only be done in 'draft' on the preview window. But it's enough to 'get it' when editing. I don't need to see crisp quality while editing... I've already watched the videos in media player.

    I was able to put this together (about 20 clips from my GoPro) in under 3 hours. It was edited in full HD and sized down afterwards to 1280x720

    Hilton Follies from Phil Shep on Vimeo.


    I'm afraid the mac will have the same issues as a PC. If not it's creating placeholders to enable you to edit, and then converting back once complete.

    This method works great for me and is quick and painless.

    Hope this helps,
    phil shep

    COMM|T OR EAT SH|T

  22. #22
    PROEDGEBIKER.COM
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    WOW! all i have to say is WOW!! what a difference!! Never again will i use a PC to make vids!

  23. #23
    Bandolero
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    The Name of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by ProEdgeBiker
    WOW! all i have to say is WOW!! what a difference!! Never again will i use a PC to make vids!
    Obligatory:


    //posted from my Amiga
    See the trails, be one with FOO-MTB.
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  24. #24
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    I've only had great experiences editing my GoPro HD footage with my MacBook Pro, and iMovie has been great too. My PC buddies have been frustrated and had to buy 3rd party software to edit.

  25. #25
    Mulleticious
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    Quote Originally Posted by philshep
    A little bit late on this one...

    I was able to put this together (about 20 clips from my GoPro) in under 3 hours. It was edited in full HD and sized down afterwards to 1280x720

    Hilton Follies from Phil Shep on Vimeo.




    Great video Philshep. And your advice is really useful - thanks.

    With all due respect though, (and I know it's off-topic) but why do you need a GoPro to film shots from a stationary position? I have a Kodak Zx1 with a gorilla minipod that can do that in HD for less than a third of the price of the HD GoPro. I thought the reason why the GoPro HD was so friggin expensive was because it has the case and attachments so it should be used on you, or on your bike?

    Not trying to be confrontational - maybe you use it on your bike usually - just interested in your thinking... 'cos i'm thinking of getting one but it's a lot of money!

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