Rogue trails

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  • 12-20-2012
    radair
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snowdrifter View Post
    Aren't some of the best trails in Bear Brook "Rogue Trails"? Hemlocks, Alpe D'huez, Itrail/hallmarsh. Are they now legit trails in the park, or still a grey area?

    Nate, I'll bet those are exactly the reason the land managers are asking how we're going to deal with unauthorized trail building. It's the same thing we're hearing up north, we can't keep going back every few years and ask them to bless another bootleg trail. Correct me if I'm wrong but the I trail and Hemlocks occurred years apart.

    When we have a willing partner like NH State Parks or the Forest Service, we owe them the respect to let them run through their review process and get approvals ahead of time. Ultimately I think we end up with a better trail network in the long run. In many cases, having a few people collaborate on trail layout avoids the mistakes of "one man's vision" and the learning curve of designing a really good trail.

    My $.02 anyway
  • 12-20-2012
    snowdrifter
    Rob, you are correct, Itrail is like a decade or so old, rerouted around logging zones a few times. The Hemlocks and AlpD (sentinel singletrack) are in the last 3-4 years. I don't think it's a "one man's dream though" The hemlocks seem well built and coordinated, like a club effort. Anyway, now that nemba has it's foot in the door with the park and land managers, hopefully I'll get to ride and clean more trails in the park. I'm curious to the status of the Hemlocks though, lot's of logging in that area, wondering if they'll remain longterm.
  • 12-20-2012
    Pedalphile
    NEMBA is working hard to get all those trails fully legitimized and on the map. AlpD may be a somewhat different case as the State definitely wants a reroute for that worn out section of Sentinel. I'm looking forward to attending the NEMBA meeting next month to get the full details and latest status.
  • 12-20-2012
    bighit2005
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    got Ya dan... I know it starts crap on here, but still appreciate knowing what's goin on, even if it's behind the scenes... One other thing though... we don't necessarily need to build unsustainable DH type trails... there are ways of building long term sustainable flowing DH trails... such as this.... type of thing.. maybe one or two that anyone can ride, and maybe a rating system for trails so that you can call one expert only and have maybe a dedicated freeride trail...

    Feature Diagrams | International Mountain Bicycling Association

    I agree with Manchvegas. In order to achieve your goal of turning BB into a biking destination you need some DH/free-ride/challenge filled trails. As a father of four, I can't get my kids to ride BB. They find it boring. If I mention a ride to Lynn, B&T's, or Nam they're in the car and ready to go within minutes. If the trails at BB don't appeal to youth, it's unlikely to become a destination. Especially for families with teenagers. Also, if BB had these type of trails, it would probably stop some of the ilegal trail building. From the places I ride, I find a lot of the rouge trail building is due to a lack of freeride type trails. People are always building what the area lacks.

    Just my 2cents.
  • 12-21-2012
    dan0
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snowdrifter View Post
    Aren't some of the best trails in Bear Brook "Rogue Trails"? Hemlocks, Alpe D'huez, Itrail/hallmarsh. Are they now legit trails in the park, or still a grey area?

    well, not on the official map
    alp is actually a re route and is now lower sentinal pine
    Itrail was built to replace the old hall mtn marsh trail that was destroyed by logging
    hemlock was built back in the 30s when the park was built, the forrester told me it had been closed but agreed that it was a good trail.
    the first 2 should be ok IMO after all they are legitimate re routes
    hemlock is iffy, if it was closed , there was no signs or anything indicating it was, and like most bikers and hhikers , if you see a trail you just have to explore. The ranger asked us to close hemlock as a goodwill gesture ( and maybe to see if we would or could actually close a trail) our position was we are there to expand the trail system and it makes little sense to close a perfectly good trail as we need more.
    One of our members got carried away and started flagging a re reoute over there after they said they wanted it closed and that may be one reason why they are upset.
    we've since removed the flagging. we will get answers to all of these questions at the meeting.
  • 12-21-2012
    dan0
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bighit2005 View Post
    I agree with Manchvegas. In order to achieve your goal of turning BB into a biking destination you need some DH/free-ride/challenge filled trails. As a father of four, I can't get my kids to ride BB. They find it boring. If I mention a ride to Lynn, B&T's, or Nam they're in the car and ready to go within minutes. If the trails at BB don't appeal to youth, it's unlikely to become a destination. Especially for families with teenagers. Also, if BB had these type of trails, it would probably stop some of the illegal trail building. From the places I ride, I find a lot of the rouge trail building is due to a lack of freeride type trails. People are always building what the area lacks.

    Just mcentsts.

    first things first, we need to get them on our side, show them that by expanding, the riders and $$ will start rolling in. and show them that they can trust us to keep them in the loop and listen to their concerns.
    also keep in mind B&T and Nam are not state owned, Lynn has unique geological features that lends it to those type trails.
    Bear brook does have some possibilities , carr ridge and catamount to name a couple

    thats whats nice about this area for riding, no matter what type of riding you like or feel like , you can, within withiin an hours drive.
    Bear brook is pretty spread out and alot of people like to hammer for miles. we are thinking more along the lines of kt
    I dont think you couldf categorize hemlock , alp or even Itrail as DH or freeride. the closest thing to that was the old little bear and that became that way from ATVs.

    any of you guys have any $$, you could pick up some adjoining property, build whatever you want and keep it open I guarantee.you that NEMBA would be happy to help

    BTW if your kids like free ride come to Nashua and try out Yudicky , thats the park I take care of and its pretty technical, weve got ladders, teeters, drops and jumps, etc.
    I'd be happy to give anyone a tour
  • 12-21-2012
    Pedalphile
    Thanks again, Dan, for your hard work on this, along with the rest of the SNEMBA crew. It is much appreciated!
  • 12-21-2012
    manchvegas
    KT is great, But even KT saw the need for attracting a bigger croud than the subway spandex wearing canadians.. look at the most popular trails at KT.. kitchel,webs,sidewinder etc.. they all kindof follow the "flow country" style that IMBA talks about. We don't need all out DH trails that you need a 200mm bike for. But for instance (an you may be plannin on some of these same ideas, I don't know) on big bear, there was, and still is potential to make it more "flow country" build a jump over a rock that's right on the side of the trail... make a little bit of a kicker on the rock so you can get some air down the hill, a couple off camber 180 corners could use a berm etc.. The average rider isn't gonna hump their 200mm bike out into the middle of bear brook to do some obscure DH runs, we're talkin stuff that can be hit with the average 160mm bike which is what most freeride bikes are.

    The problem with yudicky trails, is there's no elevation. Bear brook has the most potential of any trail system in NH for any and all types of mountain biking, xc, AM, FR it's got potential for everything. Personally I hope to not be busy in the spring an get my hands dirty and hopefully many others will come out. But like bighit2005 said, if it's all the same stuff, the illegal trail building in other areas won't stop. I would rather put my trail building efforts into a place where I can build the trails we/I wanna ride... just sayin.
  • 12-21-2012
    offrhodes42
    I would really like to know if some of the people building rogue trails are the same people complaining about ATV's, complaining about people not helping out on trail days, viewing trails as "theirs" when they do not even own the land.

    How would you feel if I showed up to your house and decided to build a volleyball court? Or put up a paintball course? Or just dig trenches for fun?

    While the rogue trail builders are hopefully only a small part of the mtn bike community they are the ones that are going to ruin it for the masses. What it comes down to in the most basic form is just plain respect. Hopefully your parents raised you to show it and hopefully you will raise your own children to show it as well. Respect the land owner(s) and other users so we do not get lumped into the same category as ATV's by the general public.

    Rant over..............for now.
  • 12-21-2012
    snowdrifter
    As far as I know, nobody has been building Freeride trails in Bear Brook. Most people who ride Bear Brook on a regular basis enjoy it for the milage, the tempo, and the wilderness feel.
  • 12-21-2012
    bighit2005
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dan0 View Post
    first things first, we need to get them on our side, show them that by expanding, the riders and $$ will start rolling in. and show them that they can trust us to keep them in the loop and listen to their concerns.
    also keep in mind B&T and Nam are not state owned, Lynn has unique geological features that lends it to those type trails.
    Bear brook does have some possibilities , carr ridge and catamount to name a couple

    thats whats nice about this area for riding, no matter what type of riding you like or feel like , you can, within withiin an hours drive.
    Bear brook is pretty spread out and alot of people like to hammer for miles. we are thinking more along the lines of kt
    I dont think you couldf categorize hemlock , alp or even Itrail as DH or freeride. the closest thing to that was the old little bear and that became that way from ATVs.

    any of you guys have any $$, you could pick up some adjoining property, build whatever you want and keep it open I guarantee.you that NEMBA would be happy to help

    BTW if your kids like free ride come to Nashua and try out Yudicky , thats the park I take care of and its pretty technical, weve got ladders, teeters, drops and jumps, etc.
    I'd be happy to give anyone a tour

    Thanks for the invite. I have been to Yudicky and the kids loved it. One side at least:)
  • 12-21-2012
    snowdrifter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by offrhodes42 View Post
    How would you feel if I showed up to your house and decided to build a volleyball court?

    Please do. :D, and a pool while your at it.
  • 12-21-2012
    manchvegas
    I don't know of any rogue/illegal trails being built in bear brook or anywhere else for that matter. my point is more along the lines of... it would be nice if we had a good mix of xc, AM and freeride trails at the end of this project. It would really be a shame to waste all of the potential bearbrook has on more of the same old same old. It's only going to attract the same type of rider that already rides bear brook. Not when we have rivals like stowe, waterbury, millstone, pinehill, KT, MRV...

    Building a diverse trail system which includes all users, will not only attract many different riding groups, but enthusiastic builders as well being able to be apart of making trails they love to ride... myself included.
  • 12-21-2012
    dan0
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snowdrifter View Post
    Please do. :D, and a pool while your at it.

    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
  • 12-24-2012
    Alvinnf
    Municipality is in dire straights for cash. They will log what they need to log. We will clean up the mess when they are done. On and on it goes. They aren't banning mtb anytime soon. Our relationship is symbiotic, not parasitic.
  • 12-24-2012
    Alvinnf
    Our society needs less rules and more people with the ability to make good decisions. Neither is in the imminent future!
  • 12-25-2012
    dan0
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Alvinnf View Post
    Municipality is in dire straights for cash. They will log what they need to log. We will clean up the mess when they are done. On and on it goes. They aren't banning mtb anytime soon. Our relationship is symbiotic, not parasitic.

    your point doesnt add up
    logging plans have been in the works for many years, BB has been logged since before mtn bikes has nothing to do with current fiscal conditions
  • 12-25-2012
    Alvinnf
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dan0 View Post
    your point doesnt add up
    logging plans have been in the works for many years, BB has been logged since before mtn bikes has nothing to do with current fiscal conditions

    Didn't say it did. Just said we will clean it up. I don't care what they do or say. I am of the mind set to go around or go through whatever to get where I am going. Doesn't matter either way.