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  1. #1
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    This doesn't sound good (Kingdom Trails)

    This sounds like a lose-lose situation.

    Burke resort cuts ties with mountain biking trails network
    That creep can roll, man.

  2. #2
    beer thief
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    I wondered about the Q that suddenly appeared before Burke in their marketing email. Pretty amazing that this guy does not see the value in being associated with KT.

  3. #3
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    Some other notable consequences of Ary Quiros management style.

    - Many long term employees of the mountain were fired without cause(source: existing employee).
    - The school ski program for the local kids was basically ruined(source: local family we know).
    - Now this after ignoring the fact that KT basically built and maintains the mountain trail system for him.
    - Two prominent restaurants in town closed this year. Not sure if he was involved or not but it is not good.

    From what I understand, this guy has no ski area management or recreation type experience. The locals are getting fed up and the mountain will certainly not succeed in their future plans without the town's support.

  4. #4
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    definitely seems like short sighted decision based primarily on a sense of entitlement and $$. Tons of other intangibles that need to be considered with a relationship like that. Interested to see how this plays out for them...

  5. #5
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    Was the $20 going to Burke for the lift? Why not just charge $35 and make everyone happy?

  6. #6
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    Does this new development change anyone's opinion on this?

    http://forums.mtbr.com/vermont-new-h...it-860860.html

  7. #7
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    Hey folks--I have been in the ski business for 40+ years, in NH and Colorado-as a grunt, i.e liftie, patrolman, rental manager ,etc.. Cross country areas for 20 years...In this corporate world, for the most part, it is all about the "Alpine" experience; they could care less about anything else. They sell more burgers, chips, and beer in a weekend then a Nordic or Bike operation takes in over a whole season. Burke Mt. as a viable ski area will never make it- too far for day trips, not enough snow making potential (i.e. water) , nothing else to do once there, and on and on. Even worse is for a non-profit to depend on the benevolence of a corporate entity, or private landowners, to supply the land for them to build there trails. Waiting to see whoever actually owns the resort land at Ascutney to decide then can do better being an ATV destination resort or sell of the land for more second homes. Be very happy that non-profits such as land trusts, conservation areas, town forests, etc., actually seem to want hiking and biking trails on their land.

  8. #8
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    To the SLAV--It is all about $$ and entitlement, this is the good old USA! And I know you are in central NH where Highlands was a tiny little failing ski area where someone with vision stepped in and built a downhill/lift served mecca (and they have free xc MTB trails) for mountain biking. And within 15 miles are nearly 60 miles of free, purpose built MTB trails--all on conservation land, town forests, a federal Dam, a Farm trust, a Youth Center, a State Park. I love to go to Kingdom and Ascutney, but thankfully we have are own little Kingdom without Corporate largess.

  9. #9
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    To Likeaboss-- once again it is all about $$ and entitlement- I have lived in and worked at Waterville Valley, in NH, for 10 years. New Owners; get rid of experienced veterans, replace them with outsiders who are clueless but young and go getters..We had lift served, not very good, Mtb trails--this Summer the mechanics, inexperienced, killed the chairlift-not likely to be replaced for the pittance it brought in compared to the Alpine Area, which has been run into the ground by previous corporate owners. Little Towns: Waterville Valley, Ascutney, East Burke are a non-entity from the Corporate view--this is not Stowe, Aspen, Telluride, North Conway. And I don't think any of us can do much to change it all. Keep in mind that MTB'ers do not drop close to 4 or 5 hundred a day to ski at an Alpine area--Mom,Dad, 2 kids, tickets, rentals?, lunch ($10 burger, $8 beer),etc. Cherish your own special places to bike!!!

  10. #10
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    Like many of you, I too, have many years of "ski world" experience. AS many of you ahve mentioned, it's truly about the all mighty dollar. This has happened all across the country in many fields... I guess the only thing that I feel that I have control ovr is "who" my money supports, and that will ALWAYS be the Kingdom Trails. Hopefully over time, things will get worked out... but if not, I still will support the trails !!

  11. #11
    beer thief
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic View Post
    Does this new development change anyone's opinion on this?

    http://forums.mtbr.com/vermont-new-h...it-860860.html
    What's the deal with that flow trail? Did Trail Solutions ever lay out a trail and where is it?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    What's the deal with that flow trail? Did Trail Solutions ever lay out a trail and where is it?
    It's called Roly Grail it's in the bike park.

  13. #13
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    This doesn't sound good (Kingdom Trails)

    The trail is there, it's super fun.

    So anyway, I was there I the midst of all this, and Ary is a supreme ass who shoots from the hip. It cost 35 dollars to ride the bike park, 20 for Burke. 15 for KT. Ary decided not to honor the existing contract, and stiffed KT for upwards of $20,000. He would ride the lift with one of the rental bikes, no experience, and come down in jeans with NO helmet. People would come in saying some jackass was riding without a helmet on. Yup, that's the Prez.

    I thought that I had stepped into an opportunity to grow the biking at the mountain, but it was obvious from the start that Ary had no intention in investing what was needed, and proceeded to make decisions to bury the place. When the stuff with KT came around I had to bail, you can't treat people like he does. He will fail, ultimately...no doubt in my mind. But as long as he has something to snort, he's happy.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"

  14. #14
    backwoods and backwards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schott View Post
    The trail is there, it's super fun.

    So anyway, I was there I the midst of all this, and Ary is a supreme ass who shoots from the hip. It cost 35 dollars to ride the bike park, 20 for Burke. 15 for KT. Ary decided not to honor the existing contract, and stiffed KT for upwards of $20,000. He would ride the lift with one of the rental bikes, no experience, and come down in jeans with NO helmet. People would come in saying some jackass was riding without a helmet on. Yup, that's the Prez.

    I thought that I had stepped into an opportunity to grow the biking at the mountain, but it was obvious from the start that Ary had no intention in investing what was needed, and proceeded to make decisions to bury the place. When the stuff with KT came around I had to bail, you can't treat people like he does. He will fail, ultimately...no doubt in my mind. But as long as he has something to snort, he's happy.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"
    This seems to be the sentiment of everyone who has dealt with Ary. I think the KTA is bigger than the mountain at this point.

    I hope Knight still has that shuttle bus running, we'll be needing that moving forward.

    The real concern here is that they'll run Burke into the ground and then strip everything they can move out to Jay, leaving our hill with nothing.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  15. #15
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    So what does this really mean? Shut down?

    I've never been but I was planning on making the trip to ride the park and Burke mt. In the spring/summer, don't wanna waste the time if I'm not gonna be able to get my DH fill..

  16. #16
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    This doesn't sound good (Kingdom Trails)

    I think that the mountain will operate the bike park, but it won't be built, maintained, or run by kingdom Trails as it has in the past. That was my last impression. Knight didn't run a summit shuttle this year, nobody did. It didn't prove to be very profitable.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"

  17. #17
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    I guess Stenger has stepped in and retracted Jr.'s statements. Resorts. What a ****in gong show.

  18. #18
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    If you need to dh while up in east Burke, head over the border to bromont. It's worlds better than Burke mtn and only about an hour and a half away. Burke is only good for when your legs are tired and you want something different from kt. They won't survive with the same trails and the same price, with no kt access.

  19. #19
    backwoods and backwards
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    If you need to dh while up in east Burke, stay on this side of the border and spend your US dollars at Highland It's worlds better than Burke mtn and only about an hour and a half away.
    Fixed that all up for you!
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  20. #20
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    Have you been to both? Highland is highland....it is NOT bromont. Also, 80% of the people i pass at kt are frenchies...not sure they'd enjoy that attitude.

    Plus...poutine.

  21. #21
    backwoods and backwards
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    I'll stand by what I've said.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  22. #22
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    Burke Bike Park's biggest strength is that it is kid and beginner friendly, not something you can say about Bromont, and while Highland is getting better, Burke is still a better call for that demographic.
    Last edited by epic; 12-29-2013 at 05:18 AM.

  23. #23
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    Gravy Fries!

    Anyways, I've seen bungholes like this guy buy restaruants and clean out long term employees, kind of like the burke situation. Many people would say that the new owner will never make it, but as long as they have their accounts managed and the books are in the black, they don't care how many locals/regulars they loose. With so much invested in this project, I'd be suprised to see it fail. The town pays, the mtb community pays, but the business will profit. It's just sad, especially since this town seemed so stoked on mtb and community.

  24. #24
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    Burke Mt.--Viable or Not: In New England there would be no viable ski areas without snowmaking, and lots of it! Just a look at Vt. area trail totals this morning tells the story: open/total> Jay 57/78, Killington 87/155, Mad River 4/45 **, Magic 3/43**, Okemo 91/120, Stowe 70/116, Burke 14/50**. Pretty obvious who has The Snowmaking and who does not. And this is at the end of the Christmas Vacation, which usually accounts for at least 25% of the total Season income! Guess how well Magic, Mad, and Burke did this Vacation. OK, so you say the "Q" has a lot of money; that may be wonderful and hopeful but all the snowmaking equipment you can buy is useless without Water, and lots of it! And I see no large source of water for Burke; States generally do not allow water to be drawn from streams or rivers. The option then is drilling a lot of wells, building Large holding ponds, and spending millions to upgrade the snowmaking equipment. And then you have to have Resort infrastructure--restaurants, bars, shops, lodging,etc. Burke is not a day area, too far from any real population to make that viable. So they have to build a destination Resort with tons of snowmaking--do not really think they would take that chance when they already have Jay to work with. KT was there and successful before the downhill park! They should spend the time, money, and effort concentrating on what has worked so far-- surely they could do a lot to help those many trails that have been beaten to death by high traffic volume and un-sustainable building practices. Let Burke have the Bike Park and KT get back to making what they have more lasting and fun for the future!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic View Post
    Burke Bike Park's biggest strength is that it is kid and beginner friendly, not something you can say about Bromont, and while Highland is getting better, Burke is still a better call for that demographic.
    This is true. I can't tell you the number of people I've had to slow down and wait for on Jester or have seen rolling over the lips on Knightslayer. The only problem is that isn't a sustainable business model. All of those people are going to go once, and either not go again, or go the one time a year the family goes up there. Everyone else, ie the money, are going to go to places that cater to MTBers, not just as a side business. Besides, Highland now has lessons and fantastic rental packages, in addition to the newer trails which are all beginner focused.

    There are so many near-dead MTB parks it's not even funny (Snow, Attitash, Jiminy, whiteface, Killington). There are a few that are thriving (Mt Creek, Highland, Bromont). The ones that are doing well are the ones with laser focus on actually building a good park for MTBers, and not treating it as a joke.

    Don't get me wrong I love burke, I think the two trails there are fantastic, but I would never pay $35 to ride there and there alone. When it's $20 for the uplift and $15 to ride KT, it makes more sense.

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