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  1. #1
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    Burke Bell Bike Park Build = ********?

    I'm going to start by saying that I have been a KTA pass holder for 10+ years and have had a Burke Bike Park season pass for the last two (but maybe not this year). So I am a supporter of KTA and Burke in general.

    But the Bell Built grant.... that sounds like some ******** to me. Burke Bike Park is owned by Burke Mountain now and that is owned by Jay Peak. Jay/Stenger keeps crowing about the hundreds of millions of Chinese money that they are throwing around and here they are taking a grant for $50,000. If the trail was being built on Darling Hill/KTA non-profit it would be totally different. Having it built in a for-profit bike park owned by the richest company around is like finding out that your neighbor who lives in the mansion and drives a Benz is paying for it with welfare checks and food stamps.

    Do I have this wrong, or am I right to feel bent about this?

  2. #2
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    I see your point but it is just another private company that is funding the project so your analogy does not fit exactly. Not that Bell's money could not be better spent in our eyes. In their eyes, it is more about selling product and the maximum exposure will be at the bike park/ski area. I am sure there will be plenty of Bell signage around the mountain as a result of this.

  3. #3
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    OK, new analogy then - the rich kid's son gets lots of need based scholarships for college.

  4. #4
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    I guess there are 2 ways to look at this. You can be irritated that one for profit company is giving money to another, more power to them if you ask me. Or you can be excited knowing that either way we should be getting more trails to ride. Sure would it be better if it went to a non-profit, yeah, but there's no rule out that that says you have to give money to nonprofits. I fully believe that the chinese company probably has very little intention of pouring much money into the mountain bike trails/park. So without the grant I doubt the flow trail that is planned gets done.

  5. #5
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    There's no Chinese company, it's individuals buying Green Cards for 500K a pop. Don't even get me started on that.

  6. #6
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    As opposed to illegals coming in for free and collecting welfare. Flame suit on.

  7. #7
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    Burke Bell Bike Park Build = ********?

    I'll bite. Leaving everything you've known or own I don't call "free". Why does someone who can afford $500K need a Green Card? Need has nothing to do with it. It's all greed. Everything in the US is for sale to the highest bidder - laws, justice, even immigration regulations. When will people realize that the rich (who mostly won the gene pool or found a way to screw people out of their money) and corporations are costing us many times more than a few welfare cheats. It's just subtler - from insider trading to monopoly power to owning the legislature. (Maybe when people stop thinking that the opinions and lies of a crazy Australian billionaire are "news".)

    You're going to have more welfare "lazies" to despise as more and more of the economic gains continue to go to capital, and less to labor. The "Land of Opportunity" is now one of the most upwardly immobile countries in the world, and getting worse. At least there will be fewer illegals here expecting to find good jobs.

    Sorry. I promise I won't flame again.

  8. #8
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    I don't know the details of the trail location, only that I 'voted' for a "flow trail" to be built at KT. My assumption was that non-profit KTA applied for the Bell grant and ended up winning.

    I understand your issue with it. But I guess the bottom line is we will (should?) ultimately benefit from a new trail. It remains to be seen whether an additional charge for a lift ticket will be required to access the new flow. If that's the case I will also be less than psyched but still be happy to have the opportunity.

    Not going to touch the illegal alien, welfare, political, etc topic.

  9. #9
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    It's simple really. The more people Burke attracts, the more people KTA will get as riders as a side benefit, plus all the extra $$$ spent locally at businesses. It's a win-win. You don't HAVE to buy a Burke lift pass to ride those trails, you can pedal up and ride down on the standard KTA pass.

  10. #10
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    Burke Bell Bike Park Build = ********?

    KTA builds the trails, Burke owns the lift. They are PARTNERS... KT sees a slice of every lift ticket sold, and Burke splits the costs with KT on the trails being built. They work TOGETHER as a COMMUNITY effort to make cycling in the area better for YOU. and it's $30,000. If you are going to get nasty about it, then why does a non-profit like KTA who sold 60,000 day passes last year at $15 need the grant more than anyone else? Because they went through the effort to build the loyal following that voted for them, because they are so loved by so many.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic View Post
    I'm going to start by saying that I have been a KTA pass holder for 10+ years and have had a Burke Bike Park season pass for the last two (but maybe not this year). So I am a supporter of KTA and Burke in general.

    But the Bell Built grant.... that sounds like some ******** to me. Burke Bike Park is owned by Burke Mountain now and that is owned by Jay Peak. Jay/Stenger keeps crowing about the hundreds of millions of Chinese money that they are throwing around and here they are taking a grant for $50,000. If the trail was being built on Darling Hill/KTA non-profit it would be totally different. Having it built in a for-profit bike park owned by the richest company around is like finding out that your neighbor who lives in the mansion and drives a Benz is paying for it with welfare checks and food stamps.

    Do I have this wrong, or am I right to feel bent about this?
    Where do you ski again?

  12. #12
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    Uh, what?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic View Post
    Uh, what?
    You ski at Stowe? Passholder?

  14. #14
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    Yes, I fail to see the relevance. If Stowe Mountain Resort had applied for and won a charitable grant to build a bike trail that they would charge people to ride on, would you be OK with it? I know I wouldn't.

    I guess my opinion is in the minority here, that's OK, I'm getting used to it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic View Post
    Yes, I fail to see the relevance. If Stowe Mountain Resort had applied for and won a charitable grant to build a bike trail that they would charge people to ride on, would you be OK with it? I know I wouldn't.

    I guess my opinion is in the minority here, that's OK, I'm getting used to it.
    AIG=800 million dollar public bail out. If you want to complain about public funding of the 1 percent that results in for-profit access to recreational opportunities, look closer to home IMO.

  16. #16
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    So Epic skiing at Stowe makes the question he is asking invalid? That seems reasonable...

    Why not answer his question by saying "read this and let us know what the problem is." because it certainly doesn't say anywhere that the recipient needs to be a 501c.

    That ^^^ would be useful, strawmen... not so much.

  17. #17
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    I"m gonna chime in. Stenger and KTA both have plenty of money these days that they could and should spend back on the network. It would have been nice if the money from this grant was used for some place new or to buildup a not so heavily used area. It's plain and simple. Bell doesn't want to pay taxes, so instead they come up with a grant or scheme to try to get more sales. Thus a grant for very heavily traffic'd area's to get there name out there and noticed. It's a all just marketed smoke and mirrors.

    Dave come on now. Your gonna use AIG. I"m sure your a home owner and especially with living in VT you don't have to live with the value of the property dropping in value. Plus we(tax payers) made money on that deal with AIG.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    AIG=800 million dollar public bail out. If you want to complain about public funding of the 1 percent that results in for-profit access to recreational opportunities, look closer to home IMO.
    AIG paid back their loan with interest.

  19. #19
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    Just to be clear I have no beef whatsoever with the money going to the town of Burke. I just thing it should be used in the Kingdom Trails which is a non-profit rather than in the Burke Bike Park which is already (or at least should be well-funded).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic View Post
    AIG paid back their loan with interest.
    But how much did they make insuring CDSs, helping to crash the world economy, and how many people lost their houses because of the reckless and likely illegal practies. They got an 800 mlion dollar loan to cover losses from a policy that cost real people real things. You'll give them a grand a year no worries. Go further back in their history and you'll find plenty of reasons to not give any of your hard earned pay.....if you're feeling like getting all ethical. Burke gets 50K to build a trail that is public access and you find fault with that? Man....talk about first world problems.....who cares...go ride it, you'll feel better knowing that that money is going to the local folks that build trail there.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    Burke gets 50K to build a trail that is public access and you find fault with that? Man....talk about first world problems.....who cares...go ride it, you'll feel better knowing that that money is going to the local folks that build trail there.
    It says in the grant that IMBA Trail Solutions is designing and building the trail. So I don't think 'local folks who build trail there' will see any of this money. Still, glad to have more trail anywhere close by and it's cool to see different building styles.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebike View Post
    It says in the grant that IMBA Trail Solutions is designing and building the trail. So I don't think 'local folks who build trail there' will see any of this money. Still, glad to have more trail anywhere close by and it's cool to see different building styles.
    Still better then public dollars being used to bail out AIG. It will be interesting to see what their $/ft. ends up being. Legal and funded trail projects in VT. How cool is that? I'd be more stoked on if the local crew was doing the work, but given what tax dollars get spent on....this isn't really on the radar for me as a social evil that needs to be called out. Industry is supporting trail building and funding it. For years it's been industry promoting images of biking that have not helped the sport in public perception or land access. I like the paradigm shift, even if it does have a little insider stink on it.

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