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  1. #1
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    ATVs in state parks of NH

    SB 0250

    make yourself heard, the state of NH is again trying to sneak through changes that would open up ALL state parks to ATV's

    contact your congressman, state rep, etc. and let them know how you feel

  2. #2
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    I think NEMBA and EFTA should get on this with a petition of some sort. Nothing ruins a good mtb trail like the smell of a 2-stroke engine...followed by ruts so deep the trail turns to rubble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuyler1 View Post
    I think NEMBA and EFTA should get on this with a petition of some sort. Nothing ruins a good mtb trail like the smell of a 2-stroke engine...followed by ruts so deep the trail turns to rubble.
    Im with NEMBA, but we need all groups of users, the more the better.
    as far as park users that includes hikers, campers, fishermen, equestrians, hunters, etc.

  4. #4
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    The bill allows ATV clubs to propose new trails under certain conditions. It doesn't instantly open any existing trails to new uses.

    There is a lot of woods in NH so it should be easy to share among lots of user groups.

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    But who is going to police and make sure the ATV riders stay on their trails and have the right exhaust systems? I see your point...everyone needs to share...but people come to the White Mountains to get away from the smog and noise. The sound of a 2-stroke engine can echo through an entire park ruining everyone else's experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDM View Post
    The bill allows ATV clubs to propose new trails under certain conditions. It doesn't instantly open any existing trails to new uses.

    There is a lot of woods in NH so it should be easy to share among lots of user groups.
    actually it makes it easier to bypass restricted areas, only a committee vote vs. not allowed under any circumstances.
    and we're not saying they should be banned outright, only kept out of state parks like Bear Brook. They already have over 7000 miles of ATV trails in NH. and they just got Jerico park up north which was supposed to be instead of other state parks. This bill makes it easier for them to bypass the existing laws

  7. #7
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    Thanks Dan0. I can't stand the noise and air pollution of all the snowmobiles in Bear Brook during the winter. Imagine that crap all summer and fall. These blobs should get some skis, a bike, or hiking shoes if they want to enjoy outdoors in State Parks.

    NH Senators & Reps, contact them.

    New Hampshire Senate
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    Last edited by snowdrifter; 12-28-2011 at 03:59 AM.
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  8. #8
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    I'm all for user groups having rights to use lands for their purposes, needs, and hobbies, but I really don't want the sound of an engine echoing throughout the woods when I'm out riding. I'm not the most political person by any means, but I've been to Lowell Dracut Town Forest riding when ATV's have been in the park. You can hear them all over the place and they fly up and down the fire roads like its nothing.
    Get out and ride even when you don't want to because ten minutes into the ride you'll be glad you did.

  9. #9
    JDM
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    This sounds like a bunch of hikers whining about mountain bikers.

    I'm willing to put up with things I don't like in exchange for the freedom to do stuff that others don't like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDM View Post
    This sounds like a bunch of hikers whining about mountain bikers.

    I'm willing to put up with things I don't like in exchange for the freedom to do stuff that others don't like.
    ^^ This.

    Its easy to demonize and label others when it suits "our" needs. Soon as someone tries to take away "our" opportunities to enjoy our form of recreation though its a whole different ball game. We can ALL co-exist. Not everyone that rides an atv or dirtbike is the devil and foaming at the mouth to destroy every mountain bike or hiking trail in sight. Also not all machines used are two-stroke or obnoxiously loud.

  11. #11
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    If you read the link Dan posted, you'll see that this RSA already exists. Additions are marked in bold italics and deletions are in brackets with a line through them. I don't read anywhere that this bill will allow ATVs or motos in any or all state parks. It may relax some of the restrictions but overall it looks like relatively minor changes to me.

    I don't know the details of why ATVs were kept out of Bear Brook the last time they were proposed but I do remember the town of Allenstown was strongly opposed to allowing them.

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    Dano... you have NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT! Haha, sorry had to get that out. And I will tell you why. I have been mountain biking and riding atv's for a LONG time over 20 years. There are NOT 7000 miles of ATV TRAILS!!!! There are 7000 miles of SNOWMOBILE trails and ONLY if they have enough snowcover. there are about 600-800 miles of atv specific trails that are all broken up all over the state in little tiny 20 mile long trail systems. So please, people, stop spouting off about something you know nothing about!

    And as far as the 2stroke goes... WHO RIDES A 2 STROKE ANYMORE? most manufacturers stopped making 2 strokes 4-5 years ago and they are few and far between. Again, stop spouting off like you know everything, you are just speaking because you are biased to what you know and ignorant of the sport. I for one LOVE mountain biking and atving, I enjoy both, probably mountain biking more but still it's alot of fun to rip around in the winter with some studded tires on an atv...

    I personally know exactly the reasons why atvs weren't allowed in places like bear brook etc.. but I don't think any of you really need to know. AND fact is... most of these atv clubs do more charity work for the needy than I've seen ANY mountain bike club do except for there own trails and people. And that's coming from someone that bikes atleast once a week all year round.
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    If you read the link Dan posted, you'll see that this RSA already exists. Additions are marked in bold italics and deletions are in brackets with a line through them. I don't read anywhere that this bill will allow ATVs or motos in any or all state parks. It may relax some of the restrictions but overall it looks like relatively minor changes to me.

    I don't know the details of why ATVs were kept out of Bear Brook the last time they were proposed but I do remember the town of Allenstown was strongly opposed to allowing them.
    radair is exactly right. That RSA is the current RSA guideline for clubs or trailmasters to establish trails on state land. It's nothing new and it's been on the books for a while, only a couple things are proposed to change mostly to keep expanding the NORTH COUNTRY for an established interconnected trail system. The area's such as berlin(jericho mountain state park which was purchased specifically for an atv park) milan, pittsburg, and north stratford areas etc...
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdrifter View Post
    Thanks Dan0. I can't stand the noise and air pollution of all the snowmobiles in Bear Brook during the winter. Imagine that crap all summer and fall. These slobs should get some skis, a bike, or hiking shoes if they want to enjoy outdoors in State Parks.

    NH Senators & Reps, contact them.

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    NH House of Representatives
    Slobs? Are you kidding me? It's attitudes like yours that made slavery! So I suppose my 5 year old daughter and I are slobs? Because I ride an atv and give her rides? Newsflash... running an atv isn't half as bad for the environment as the process to make the fuel cell for your hybrid car! Or the enormous carbon footprint of your 80% efficient oil furnace/boiler. The ignorance and biased outlook is astounding on this forum...
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Dano... you have NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT! Haha, sorry had to get that out. And I will tell you why. I have been mountain biking and riding atv's for a LONG time over 20 years. There are NOT 7000 miles of ATV TRAILS!!!! There are 7000 miles of SNOWMOBILE trails and ONLY if they have enough snowcover. there are about 600-800 miles of atv specific trails that are all broken up all over the state in little tiny 20 mile long trail systems. So please, people, stop spouting off about something you know nothing about!

    And as far as the 2stroke goes... WHO RIDES A 2 STROKE ANYMORE? most manufacturers stopped making 2 strokes 4-5 years ago and they are few and far between. Again, stop spouting off like you know everything, you are just speaking because you are biased to what you know and ignorant of the sport. I for one LOVE mountain biking and atving, I enjoy both, probably mountain biking more but still it's alot of fun to rip around in the winter with some studded tires on an atv...

    I personally know exactly the reasons why atvs weren't allowed in places like bear brook etc.. but I don't think any of you really need to know. AND fact is... most of these atv clubs do more charity work for the needy than I've seen ANY mountain bike club do except for there own trails and people. And that's coming from someone that bikes atleast once a week all year round.

    you know , Ive seen you spouting off on this web site for awhile now and have yet to see you do anything to help Mtn biking. I'm wondering why you come on this site
    heres 1 reason why we dont want ATVs in bear brook
    Jericho Park ATV Festival - Mud pit competition, trail riding & more f
    or another take a ride over to Clough state park
    as far as the charity work , great. you can see first hand what the charity event did to bear brook,
    go down little bear. the day they were allowed on that trail, they ruined it, after, the roots were hanging 10"= 12" above the trail. was it repaired? not unless you count dumping sand ( which is now at the bottom) fixing.
    another problem with their charity work is how do you allow one group to have a charity ride and not another? maybe the loggers want to have a charity tree cutting event or the mud bog racers want to have a charity mud bog race .
    You are allways mouthing off on this site about your 20 years of tearing up bear brook, yet never any trail work or maintenance, Im sure you do equal amounts of charity work

    We are not against ATVs or OHTVs at all , alot of our members also ride ATVs, the problem is venue. virtually all park users at bear brook enjoy the peace and quiet and the natural beauty of the park. that will be ruined if gas powered vehicles are allowed. even now in the winter they take over all the main roads and double track . I've tried to xc ski there on the weekend and its non stop noise and exhast fumes. Allowing them in year round will be disasturous, gone will be the bikers, hikers, campers, equestrians, etc.
    the town has voted this down over and over and still they persist in trying to ram it down our throat.
    The Jericho park property which was paid for with all our taxes was supposed to be a compromise so that the ATVs would have a great destination and leave our existing areas alone, yet here they are again.
    yes , there are technically 600 miles of dedicated ATV trails and yes there are over 7000 miles of OHRV trails, OHRV is ATVs, dirt bikes and snowmobiles so in actuallity there are over 7000 miles of ATV trails. this is according to the NH bureau of trails. adding the 20 miles of trails or so in Bear brook isnt going to mean much to the ATVs but its alot for biking

    BTW , where did I mention 2 strokes? but since you brought it up, I would venture that there are plenty of ATVs that are more than 4 years old, not to mention the 4 stroke engines that are out of tune or have been modified. and even if factory direct, they still stink and are noisy.
    I dont understand why you have to sit on a gas powered noisy vehicle putting along ( which is what the ATV rules dictate) out in the woods. with all the racket you wont see much wildlife so why not just take a ride up north with your atv and have yourself a good old time and leave us our 1 little park

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    If you read the link Dan posted, you'll see that this RSA already exists. Additions are marked in bold italics and deletions are in brackets with a line through them. I don't read anywhere that this bill will allow ATVs or motos in any or all state parks. It may relax some of the restrictions but overall it looks like relatively minor changes to me.

    I don't know the details of why ATVs were kept out of Bear Brook the last time they were proposed but I do remember the town of Allenstown was strongly opposed to allowing them.

    this ammendment weakens the the existing laws reguarding how close to waterways, vernal pools and also raptor nest trees that trails can be built. it basicly takes away the existing rules and allows alot of leeway reguarding the trails. Its not specific to bear brook, but as a concequence of the change alot of restricted areas will be available to various "interpretations" of what is allowable. So bottom line , this bill as written will make it possible to bring in ATVs to areas that were previously off limits because of wetlands, etc. It appears to be directed at Jericho park, but is not specific to that park alone.
    I hope this clears this up. Nemba is not against OHRVs but our chapter is against opening Bear Brook up to them

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    I personally know exactly the reasons why atvs weren't allowed in places like bear brook etc.. but I don't think any of you really need to know. AND fact is... most of these atv clubs do more charity work for the needy than I've seen ANY mountain bike club do except for there own trails and people. And that's coming from someone that bikes at least once a week all year round.
    How would you know, do you belong to said mtn bike clubs? What does charity work have to do with this? ATVs are loud, they pollute, and should be kept out of State Parks like Bear Brook. There's a lot of horse, hiker, and biker traffic, motors don't mix well. Big wheels, lot's of horse power, high speeds, lound n smelly. Take your gas swilling redneck machine a beat it.

    You ride once a week, wow!

    BTW, You've been a complete ******bag from day 1 on this board.
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    just because I don't do your organized trail work days at bear brook or other places doesn't mean I don't do trail work. I've been on the trails between 1-3 times per week for the past few months doing trail work prolly more than alot of people do. I don't need to justify my work to anyone nor tell you what trails.

    I know exactly why atv's aren't allowed in bear brook because I've been in the atv club scene and know and talk to people on the board of the OHRVA.

    ******bag? Who's the one calling people slobs and rednecks because they ride an ohrv, kind of hypocritical? I think so....

    I personally don't want atv's in bear brook in the summer either. But if they were allowed to ride the double track I would still ride my bike there without an issue on the singletrack.

    You don't understand how people can putt through the woods on a machine? Too bad for you! That's why we have such a diverse society, different things for different people. I don't get how someone can get all excited about fly fishing and tying flies, or tracking animals with cameras all year round to hunt them for one month of the year, but it's not my personal mission to ruin there sport because it might affect my enjoyment of the sport I enjoy.

    Btw, last time I checked, this was a public forum, everyone has the right to voice there opinion or have a discussion whether heated or opinionated. But I'm not the one calling different user groups names and using sterotypes for different groups of people...
    Last edited by manchvegas; 12-24-2011 at 09:05 AM.
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    BTW, first paragraph on nh trails website... 1000 miles of "wheeled off highway recreational vehicle trails" and 7200 of snowmobile trails. So I was wrong, not 6-800... most of those miles are above the notch though, I know that.

    The New Hampshire Division of Parks and Recreation : Bureau of Trails
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    just because I don't do your organized trail work days at bear brook or other places doesn't mean I don't do trail work. I've been on the trails between 1-3 times per week for the past few months doing trail work prolly more than alot of people do. I don't need to justify my work to anyone nor tell you what trails.

    I know exactly why atv's aren't allowed in bear brook because I've been in the atv club scene and know and talk to people on the board of the OHRVA.

    ******bag? Who's the one calling people slobs and rednecks because they ride an ohrv, kind of hypocritical? I think so....

    I personally don't want atv's in bear brook in the summer either. But if they were allowed to ride the double track I would still ride my bike there without an issue on the singletrack.

    You don't understand how people can putt through the woods on a machine? Too bad for you! That's why we have such a diverse society, different things for different people. I don't get how someone can get all excited about fly fishing and tying flies, or tracking animals with cameras all year round to hunt them for one month of the year, but it's not my personal mission to ruin there sport because it might affect my enjoyment of the sport I enjoy.

    Btw, last time I checked, this was a public forum, everyone has the right to voice there opinion or have a discussion whether heated or opinionated. But I'm not the one calling different user groups names and using sterotypes for different groups of people...
    you make a couple of good points but why answer me? I didnt call you names
    you do bring it on yourself with that pissy attitude (" I know why but Im not saying")
    where we dissagree is allowing them in the park. I say there are plenty of other areas that they can ride and damn few where they cant, why do they have to be in all areas? alot of people like the peace and quiet and go to the woods to get away from all the racket and stench

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Slobs? It's attitudes like yours that made slavery!
    Wow!
    How the hell did you arrive at that ridiculous conclusion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    just because I don't do your organized trail work days at bear brook or other places doesn't mean I don't do trail work. I've been on the trails between 1-3 times per week for the past few months doing trail work prolly more than alot of people do. I don't need to justify my work to anyone nor tell you what trails.
    .
    1 to 3 days of trail work per week for 3 months? Average that out to 2 per week, or 24 days of trail work since the beginning of October.
    Nice Job!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    just because I don't do your organized trail work days at bear brook or other places doesn't mean I don't do trail work. I've been on the trails between 1-3 times per week for the past few months doing trail work prolly more than alot of people do. I don't need to justify my work to anyone nor tell you what trails.

    I know exactly why atv's aren't allowed in bear brook because I've been in the atv club scene and know and talk to people on the board of the OHRVA.

    ******bag? Who's the one calling people slobs and rednecks because they ride an ohrv, kind of hypocritical? I think so....

    I personally don't want atv's in bear brook in the summer either. But if they were allowed to ride the double track I would still ride my bike there without an issue on the singletrack.

    You don't understand how people can putt through the woods on a machine? Too bad for you! That's why we have such a diverse society, different things for different people. I don't get how someone can get all excited about fly fishing and tying flies, or tracking animals with cameras all year round to hunt them for one month of the year, but it's not my personal mission to ruin there sport because it might affect my enjoyment of the sport I enjoy.

    Btw, last time I checked, this was a public forum, everyone has the right to voice there opinion or have a discussion whether heated or opinionated. But I'm not the one calling different user groups names and using sterotypes for different groups of people...
    1. I don't think we really care about you picking up a few twigs every time you ride.
    2. I understand ATVs can be a lot of fun for recreation, doesn't mean I want to share trails with them. I'd rather participate in activities where the human body is the motor.
    3. I still think you're a d-bag.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdrifter View Post
    1. I don't think we really care about you picking up a few twigs every time you ride.
    2. I understand ATVs can be a lot of fun for recreation, doesn't mean I want to share trails with them. I'd rather participate in activities where the human body is the motor.
    3. I still think you're a d-bag.
    1- If you need a lesson on building berms let me know. Not everyone does as little as you...
    2- great, it's not for you, then just live and let live (which obviously you can't)
    3- The feeling is 100% mutual
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    I was born in NH in 1964, rode snowmobiles in the 1970s, hiked in the 1980s and have been mountain biking since 1984.

    Today, I'm no fan of ATVs, dirt bikes or snowmobiles, but I respect other people's right to use them. However, just as mtn bikes aren't suited for, or allowed on, certain trails and lands, restrictions should apply to motorized vehicle use.

    One need only look at Hop-Ev to see what would likely happen to a trail system if ATVs and/or dirt bikes were allowed excessive access. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that there are trail systems designated for such use - and choose to avoid them when I ride.

    If anything, BBSP, Pawtuckaway and other parks should have greater restrictions on motorized use. These precious few parks with their reasonably well preserved trail systems should be a refuge for hikers, mtn bikers and XC skiers who enjoy the peaceful forests of NH.

    When i first started riding at BBSP in the mid 80's, ALL of the trails were buff. Irresponsible mtn biking (races that allowed too many riders over too short a course in wet conditions; yes EFTA, I'm talking about you) and excessive ATV use have taken their toll on many of the trails.

    If I had my way, I would ban races in the parks and disallow motorized vehicular use on all but gravel roads and true double track.

    I plan to find out EXACTLY if there is a new bill and, if so, determine what it says. If I find that it weakens trail protection against motorized use, I will certainly be a vocal opponent and begin organizing efforts to defeat and/or undermine it.

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